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If Ron Got to Make His MI3...

plrichardplrichard
edited April 2010 in Tales of Monkey Island
If Ron somehow in the future gets to make his MI3, how would you want it to be.

Assume that he would (except in the alternate timeline options of course) incorporate all games as canon.
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Comments

  • coolsomecoolsome
    edited March 2010
    I dont really wana see it I like how the series has progrest since the classic ones
  • Secret FawfulSecret Fawful
    edited March 2010
    I don't want to see it in an alternate timeline, and I don't see why anyone else would either. There's no way you can honestly convince me Ron can't fit his story into the stories that have already been made, and just ignoring the other three games is an insult to all the people who worked so hard on them.
  • monkey_05_06monkey_05_06
    edited March 2010
    You're missing the option for "the game should never be corporately produced." I'd be more than happy to read a script with his ideas, but personally it would greatly upset me if any company ever actually produced the game. For exactly the reasons that Fawful said.
  • rubberchickenwithapulleyrubberchickenwithapulley
    edited March 2010
    I don´t care, as long as he makes it :)
  • plrichardplrichard
    edited March 2010
    Secret Fawful wrote: »
    I don't want to see it in an alternate timeline, and I don't see why anyone else would either. There's no way you can honestly convince me Ron can't fit his story into the stories that have already been made, and just ignoring the other three games is an insult to all the people who worked so hard on them.

    I agree with this post 100% but I didn't want to hear a bunch of people complaining about not having this option.
    monkey_05_06 wrote: »
    You're missing the option for "the game should never be corporately produced." I'd be more than happy to read a script with his ideas, but personally it would greatly upset me if any company ever actually produced the game. For exactly the reasons that Fawful said.

    I have no problem with Ron making a game that fits between LCR and Curse or between any games for that matter. Also, I wouldn't have a problem with them doing away with
    Herman being Grandpa Marley, which I think could easily be glossed over with him being some crazy old man who thought he remembered but didn't.
    However, creating an "alternate timeline" would just be an insult and would make no sense. I just put that option there for the people who would want it.
  • Rather DashingRather Dashing
    edited March 2010
    Secret Fawful wrote: »
    I don't want to see it in an alternate timeline, and I don't see why anyone else would either. There's no way you can honestly convince me Ron can't fit his story into the stories that have already been made
    Why not? You're certain that there is not a single idea that could conceivably have been the original intention that can't move into Curse of Monkey Island's Retcon City apartment complex? Bullshit.
    and just ignoring the other three games is an insult to all the people who worked so hard on them.
    While ignoring large parts of the second game makes the third game the most wonderfully crafted piece of art ever devised.
  • plrichardplrichard
    edited March 2010
    Ladies and Gentlemen, he is here.
  • ScrawfflerScrawffler
    edited March 2010
    Had a bit of a job getting my head around this, I must admit!

    While an alternate timeline would probably be the best way to get Ron's MI3 started and ended the way he originally planned, I wouldn't want this, as I really like the MI timeline as we have it and wouldn't want any of it to not be considered canon.

    So my vote goes to between MI2 and Curse.

    I think the special edition graphics would suit it well. Don't get me wrong; I love the TOMI graphics and I love pixel art, but the kind of graphics they're using in the special edition versions just seem to really fit the theme of an old concept made real decades later.
  • Secret FawfulSecret Fawful
    edited March 2010
    plrichard wrote: »
    Also, I wouldn't have a problem with them doing away with
    Herman being Grandpa Marley, which I think could easily be glossed over with him being some crazy old man who thought he remembered but didn't.

    Simple. He lied. He's a compulsive liar like Galeb. You can't believe anything the old coot says. In fact I'll even go as far as to claim that-

    11s2hvo.png

    Though to be honest, the idea of Herman being Grandpa Marley never bothered me. So sue me. :)
    Rather Dashing wrote: »
    Why not? You're certain that there is not a single idea that could conceivably have been the original intention that can't move into Curse of Monkey Island's Retcon City apartment complex? Bullshit.
    It can be worked either way, and if it can be made to fit in with the other three games, I don't see why it shouldn't be. I don't want to see Monkey Island end up like Zelda alternate reality wise, and it would create more questions and more problems than it would solve.
  • OzzieMonkeyOzzieMonkey
    edited March 2010
    Secret Fawful wrote: »
    Simple. He lied. He's a compulsive liar like Galeb. You can't believe anything the old coot says. In fact I'll even go as far as to claim that-

    11s2hvo.png

    Though to be honest, the idea of Herman being Grandpa Marley never bothered me. So sue me. :)


    It can be worked either way, and if it can be made to fit in with the other three games, I don't see why it shouldn't be. I don't want to see Monkey Island end up like Zelda alternate reality wise, and it would create more questions and more problems than it would solve.

    Yeah, I always figured that Herman lied, coz he wanted some way to get Guybrush to rescue him from Monkey Island.

    About the alternate timeline, i agree with you there. If that keeps happening, think of all the chaos in the 'Great Monkey Island Race'.
  • etellerannet7etellerannet7
    edited March 2010
    Secret Fawful wrote: »
    I don't want to see it in an alternate timeline, and I don't see why anyone else would either. There's no way you can honestly convince me Ron can't fit his story into the stories that have already been made, and just ignoring the other three games is an insult to all the people who worked so hard on them.

    This sounds very unnecessarily hostile to me. I enjoy the new games and I enjoy the old games (here I mean 3 & 4 as new games), but it's unquestionable that 3 took a turn from the original plot. If "original" 3 were to be made it should happen the way it was supposed to, any other way would just be a new game based on the idea. The other games would still be the modern canon.
  • Jen KollicJen Kollic
    edited March 2010
    If an MI3 by Ron Gilbert could be slotted into the timeline without disrupting the other games too much, (to an extent all of the first four games have continuity issues, Escape being the worst in my book) then I'd like to see it. Otherwise it can piss off.

    Re: Herman Toothrot. That was one of the aforementioned continuity issues that really irritated me. The reasoning that 'he lied about it because he's a crazy old man' works for me, because that was my fannish conjecture anyway. After all those blows to the head, he really did think he was Governor Marley, and since that gave Elaine and Guybrush the opportunity to go off adventuring/pirating instead of governing, they just went along with it.
  • TeethTeeth
    edited March 2010
    I think all the "Voodoo Lady being behind it all" stuff in Tales is setting the plot up for Ron Gilbert's MI3 idea.
  • SpadgeSpadge
    edited March 2010
    Sorry, but I'm with Secret Fawful on this. Ron has some cool ideas? Ok, if you say so. Just put those in a game that doesn't mess up the canon. The timeline is messed enough without making an "alternative" sequel of a 19-year old game. Heck, you know what I think? Saying that this game or that game didn't happen and pretending Ron Gilbert is some sort of genius who can never, ever do anything wrong really isn't healthy for anyone. The facts are he didn't make MI3, it's been 19 years, Ron's doing other stuff and the Monkey Island series evolved into something different. This alternative MI3 is nothing but some fans' crazy dream. Just accept that and focus on games that were made or even games that have an actuall chance of getting made someday.
  • Secret FawfulSecret Fawful
    edited March 2010
    Jen Kollic wrote: »
    If an MI3 by Ron Gilbert could be slotted into the timeline without disrupting the other games too much, (to an extent all of the first four games have continuity issues, Escape being the worst in my book) then I'd like to see it. Otherwise it can piss off.

    Re: Herman Toothrot. That was one of the aforementioned continuity issues that really irritated me. The reasoning that 'he lied about it because he's a crazy old man' works for me, because that was my fannish conjecture anyway. After all those blows to the head, he really did think he was Governor Marley, and since that gave Elaine and Guybrush the opportunity to go off adventuring/pirating instead of governing, they just went along with it.

    The funny thing is that if Escape has ended with Elaine and Guybrush sailing off while saying-

    Guybrush: (waving bye to citizens and the new Governor) He's not really your Grandfather, is he.
    Elaine: (speaking through a fake smile) Not in the slightest.

    -things would probably be a lot different now.
  • Rather DashingRather Dashing
    edited March 2010
    Spadge wrote: »
    Sorry, but I'm with Secret Fawful on this. Ron has some cool ideas? Ok, if you say so. Just put those in a game that doesn't mess up the canon.
    Then it's a good thing it's too late to put them in Curse.
    The timeline is messed enough without making an "alternative" sequel of a 19-year old game. Heck, you know what I think? Saying that this game or that game didn't happen and pretending Ron Gilbert is some sort of genius who can never, ever do anything wrong really isn't healthy for anyone. The facts are he didn't make MI3, it's been 19 years, Ron's doing other stuff and the Monkey Island series evolved into something different. This alternative MI3 is nothing but some fans' crazy dream. Just accept that and focus on games that were made or even games that have an actuall chance of getting made someday.
    With Capcom and Sega putting out "retro" continuations of the early games in their respective franchises, I really don't see what's so aneurysm-inducing about a similar project for the Monkey Island franchise.
  • plrichardplrichard
    edited March 2010
    Secret Fawful wrote: »
    The funny thing is that if Escape has ended with Elaine and Guybrush sailing off while saying-

    Guybrush: (waving bye to citizens and the new Governor) He's not really your Grandfather, is he.
    Elaine: (speaking through a fake smile) Not in the slightest.

    -things would probably be a lot different now.

    Like people accepting that Escape exists?
  • Secret FawfulSecret Fawful
    edited March 2010
    Rather Dashing wrote: »
    Then it's a good thing it's too late to put them in Curse.


    With Capcom and Sega putting out "retro" continuations of the early games in their respective franchises, I really don't see what's so aneurysm-inducing about a similar project for the Monkey Island franchise.

    Because those games have a continuity so screwed up it's impossible to piece it together?

    Megaman is connected to Megaman Zero is connected to Megaman and Bass is connected to Megaman X is connected to Megaman ZX is connected to Megaman Battle Netwo- oh forget it! Apparently all the Megaman games ARE connected, or so I've been told, but it's impossible to put it together unless you really know the games. I don't want to see that happen to Monkey Island.

    @plrichard: Probably even more. They'd probably consider it one of the funniest games of all time.
  • Jen KollicJen Kollic
    edited March 2010
    Secret Fawful wrote: »
    The funny thing is that if Escape has ended with Elaine and Guybrush sailing off while saying-

    Guybrush: (waving bye to citizens and the new Governor) He's not really your Grandfather, is he.
    Elaine: (speaking through a fake smile) Not in the slightest.

    -things would probably be a lot different now.

    That would be a massive improvement in my books. Still doesn't resolve the 'but what if you went back to Melee on Herman's boat in Secret?' plot hole, but it's still much better!

    ETA: Wait, does the Street Fighter series even have a plot/storyline that can be messed up? I thought it was just a case of "eight or more people beat each other up around the world". Okay, so each character has a vaguely detailed background and motivation, but still.
  • etellerannet7etellerannet7
    edited March 2010
    Spadge wrote: »
    Sorry, but I'm with Secret Fawful on this. Ron has some cool ideas? Ok, if you say so. Just put those in a game that doesn't mess up the canon. The timeline is messed enough without making an "alternative" sequel of a 19-year old game. Heck, you know what I think? Saying that this game or that game didn't happen and pretending Ron Gilbert is some sort of genius who can never, ever do anything wrong really isn't healthy for anyone. The facts are he didn't make MI3, it's been 19 years, Ron's doing other stuff and the Monkey Island series evolved into something different. This alternative MI3 is nothing but some fans' crazy dream. Just accept that and focus on games that were made or even games that have an actuall chance of getting made someday.
    But it's not about the current canon, it would be a self-ending side game. If the game is clear on that it wouldn't be too confusing at all.

    As for whether or not it should be made, I would certainly like it if they made it. As a tribute, and as a way to see how it was originally gonna end. And I don't consider Ron to be more of a genius than certain other MI-creators.
    Secret Fawful wrote: »
    The funny thing is that if Escape has ended with Elaine and Guybrush sailing off while saying-

    Guybrush: (waving bye to citizens and the new Governor) He's not really your Grandfather, is he.
    Elaine: (speaking through a fake smile) Not in the slightest.

    -things would probably be a lot different now.
    Now that would be completely awesome.
  • SpadgeSpadge
    edited March 2010
    How would the casual people feel about it? The guys who didn't grow with the old games? For them, instead of sticking to the canon, the game series would go into some fringe direction that messes up the order and continues from the middle of the series. And the fans of all MI games including the last 3? They'd be "Hey, instead of continuing a good series with a new fresh title and respect the canon, you go back and try to make something that we don't really want." And what if the game isn't the cult flawless MI3 that old school fans just presume it would be?

    In the end of the day, as much as we love Monkey Island, making some money is important. Just because a fraction of fans wishes it to happen, I honestly don't see why anyone else would like the idea. Maybe the guys who only know the Special Editions would be into it, but even then it makes more sense to just introduce them to CMI (with some re-releace or special edition), while Ron or Telltale just create a new game that doesn't mess up the canon and thus has a broader appeal and higher sales. You know, something that all fans can enjoy, instead of just some?
  • priznaprizna
    edited March 2010
    I dont see why people think that Ron should make his MI3 and end the game in a game placed after LR making anything Curse and onwards are a different game. Then it would be like a choose your own adventure game, like you have just finished LR and get a message "If you believe Guybrush was just a kid with a big imagination, please move on to Rons MI3" "If you believe Guybrush was under a spell, please move on to The Curse of Monkey Island"
  • etellerannet7etellerannet7
    edited March 2010
    Spadge wrote: »
    How would the casual people feel about it? The guys who didn't grow with the old games? For them, instead of sticking to the canon, the game series would go into some fringe direction that messes up the order and continues from the middle of the series. And the fans of all MI games including the last 3? They'd be "Hey, instead of continuing a good series with a new fresh title and respect the canon, you go back and try to make something that we don't really want." And what if the game isn't the cult flawless MI3 that old school fans just presume it would be?

    In the end of the day, as much as we love Monkey Island, making some money is important. Just because a fraction of fans wishes it to happen, I honestly don't see why anyone else would like the idea. Maybe the guys who only know the Special Editions would be into it, but even then it makes more sense to just introduce them to CMI (with some re-releace or special edition), while Ron or Telltale just create a new game that doesn't mess up the canon and thus has a broader appeal and higher sales. You know, something that all fans can enjoy, instead of just some?
    As I said, I think it would be made clear that it's not part of the current canon if it is made. And do all games have to be made for everyone? Basically, just because the new games exist it shouldn't be a reason for not making the game.

    I certainly don't think they should discontinue making sequels for this, but to me the series doesn't feel complete until we see the original intention for the series, even if it is 20 years old.
  • EwenWEwenW
    edited March 2010
    I accept all the games as canon. Yeah, Escape messed up the continuity but its done now. Hopefully there are ways around the controversial issues always raised and I'd like Telltale to explore the history of the series a bit more. I always liked finding out more about Marley and his crew and LeChuck's history and how it was all connected within the unseen backstory of the game. It gave the series a sense of mythology that I feel was important to the second game's acclaim. For me, if there is a way to sort all the continuity problems out in future games then I would be very, very happy. I'd also like to learn more about this history but only if it is handled with precision (unlike in Escape).

    Regarding Ron Gilbert's "MI3", I hope that Ron can, in some way, be involved in pulling the continuity together and steering the good ship Monkey Island towards his original ideas. I don't want the series to end and I don't want to pretend the newer games didn't exist. I hope that Ron can work on a new game (no matter where it fits in the timeline) as long as it works with what has been laid down already.

    As much as I'd love to see Ron's version of Monkey Island 3, it never happened. If it is to happen, it should be adapted as part of a new game and fit in with continuity (however muddled it may currently be). I believe the best solution would definetly for developers to organise the messy continuity AND develop Ron's original ideas in future games. Then we can all be happy :)
  • etellerannet7etellerannet7
    edited March 2010
    EwenW wrote: »
    I accept all the games as canon. Yeah, Escape messed up the continuity but its done now. Hopefully there are ways around the controversial issues always raised and I'd like Telltale to explore the history of the series a bit more. I always liked finding out more about Marley and his crew and LeChuck's history and how it was all connected within the unseen backstory of the game. It gave the series a sense of mythology that I feel was important to the second game's acclaim. For me, if there is a way to sort all the continuity problems out in future games then I would be very, very happy. I'd also like to learn more about this history but only if it is handled with precision (unlike in Escape).

    Regarding Ron Gilbert's "MI3", I hope that Ron can, in some way, be involved in pulling the continuity together and steering the good ship Monkey Island towards his original ideas. I don't want the series to end and I don't want to pretend the newer games didn't exist. I hope that Ron can work on a new game (no matter where it fits in the timeline) as long as it works with what has been laid down already.

    As much as I'd love to see Ron's version of Monkey Island 3, it never happened. If it is to happen, it should be adapted as part of a new game and fit in with continuity (however muddled it may currently be). I believe the best solution would definetly for developers to organise the messy continuity AND develop Ron's original ideas in future games. Then we can all be happy :)
    I thought I disliked all instances of sequels meddling with the stories of the games before them.. then Tales changed the entire view of the voodoo lady and it was awesome. So I might accept future games sorting out continuity if they do it in a good way.

    About Ron.. I honestly don't want to see him work on any other MI games than 3. I think Curse and Tales would have been worse if he had been more involved.
  • SpadgeSpadge
    edited March 2010
    etellerannet7 wrote: »
    As I said, I think it would be made clear that it's not part of the current canon if it is made. And do all games have to be made for everyone? Basically, just because the new games exist it shouldn't be a reason for not making the game.

    I certainly don't think they should discontinue making sequels for this, but to me the series doesn't feel complete until we see the original intention for the series, even if it is 20 years old.

    I'm saying a game shouldn't be made for just a few fans. I'm saying that your MI3 died 19 years ago when Ron left and CMI was made. Even if Ron Gilbert makes this MI3 game - something that's not happening anytime soon - it won't be the same game he would have done 19 years ago. I think even old school fans would see it's a mistake to try and ressurect something dead for two decades.

    EDIT: Oh, also, Ron was involved in Tales.
  • etellerannet7etellerannet7
    edited March 2010
    Spadge wrote: »
    I'm saying a game shouldn't be made for just a few fans. I'm saying that your MI3 died 19 years ago when Ron left and CMI was made. Even if Ron Gilbert makes this MI3 game - something that's not happening anytime soon - it won't be the same game he would have done 19 years ago. I think even old school fans would see it's a mistake to try and ressurect something dead for two decades.

    EDIT: Oh, also, Ron was involved in Tales.
    Sadly you are right about this, and I know the chances are slim. Still I'd love to see it happen and hope that he gets it right.

    Oh, and I know what he did for Tales, I'm just glad he didn't do more.
  • PariahKingPariahKing
    edited March 2010
    MI3a is going to be awesome. I have total faith in Ron Gilbert producing something that will be able to live up to all expectations. I'm sure it'll be the best game since the latest smash hit from Cavedog Entertainment, Freddi Fish - On A Motherf**king Boat.

    All the doubters suck. Sure, it's been two decades since MI2...but Ron has been doing so many great and amazing things since then. Who hasn't played Penny Arcade adventures?

    I can't see how a game released twenty years later than originally intended that would primarily focus on solving a ridiculously complex dues ex machina could be anything but satisfying and totally appropriate for the series.
  • allaboardfilmsallaboardfilms
    edited March 2010
    PariahKing wrote: »
    I'm sure it'll be the best game since the latest smash hit from Cavedog Entertainment, Freddi Fish - On A Motherf**king Boat.

    Would anyone here not buy that?
  • LuigiHannLuigiHann
    edited March 2010
    glad to see my favored option is winning, SMI/LR graphics following from LR into an alternate timeline. Sort of the Mega Man 9 route.
  • PariahKingPariahKing
    edited March 2010
    allaboardfilms wrote: »
    Would anyone here not buy that?
    hoes.png

    ...

    Whoa. I would buy that game.
  • priznaprizna
    edited March 2010
    I dont undestand why most want it to lead into an alternate time line from LR, coz then there are 2 series Somi-Rons MI3 and Curse-Tales
  • HaydenHayden
    edited March 2010
    To have alternate timelines would be stupid, it would stuff up everything. Any sort of discussion or debate about Monkey Island would just be killed because there would no longer be a consistent history of events to use as evidence in an argument, and MIwiki would grow very confusing. If Ron Gilbert is to make his MI3, then he needs to shape and alter it to fit in with the already existing Monkey Island timeline, otherwise it should not be made.
  • MonkeyManiaMonkeyMania
    edited March 2010
    Why is everyone acting like there's going to be a MI3? It's only a dream.
  • priznaprizna
    edited March 2010
    haydenwce27 wrote: »
    To have alternate timelines would be stupid, it would stuff up everything. Any sort of discussion or debate about Monkey Island would just be killed because there would no longer be a consistent history of events to use as evidence in an argument, and MIwiki would grow very confusing. If Ron Gilbert is to make his MI3, then he needs to shape and alter it to fit in with the already existing Monkey Island timeline, otherwise it should not be made.

    I agree 100%
  • thin029thin029
    edited March 2010
    Special Edition between LCR and Curse
  • Hassat HunterHassat Hunter
    edited March 2010
    MonkeyMania wrote: »
    Why is everyone acting like there's going to be a MI3? It's only a dream.
    Wasn't it, like, released in 1999 or something?

    Or was I dreaming? :p

    I don't really care for Ron's MI, I just want ToMI2.
  • Giant TopeGiant Tope
    edited March 2010
    Freddi fish is a girl.
  • HaydenHayden
    edited March 2010
    Hassat Hunter wrote: »
    Wasn't it, like, released in 1999 or something?

    Or was I dreaming? :p

    I don't really care for Ron's MI, I just want ToMI2.

    Nope, 1997.
  • MonkeyManiaMonkeyMania
    edited March 2010
    CMI isn't MI3
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