Because the first two Monkey Island games have a nostalgic value for most players which automatically makes them better. And 'LeChuck's Revenge' was simply the better of the two. But anyway, all of that aside, 'LeChuck's Revenge' is a damn good adventure game - there's actually a fair reason why it's constantly voted best.
I'm really surprised by the the votes for ToMI. Is this the first Monkey Island game for many of you? If so, I can easily understand not putting SoMI or MI2 as favourites, maybe even CMI. It's hard to get into a game that looks dated, and even if you do, it's rarely comparable to playing it when it was new.
Personally I'd say ToMI is the best and Curse was my first MI game back in 98. Now while MI2 and Curse are amazing ToMI is just that little bit better imo, with the puzzles being more logical, the game being more 'hint friendly' for the new players, a more stylized look, the best voice acting so far (save for the first LeChuck) and a epic story.
This isn't to say the other MI's don't have all these qualities, they are all excellent (even EMI has good points if we're fair, it's more the story of EMI that was a bit of a 'what?' point), it's just ToMI kicked everything up a notch.
But to be fair Curse doesn't look dated and never will, and the special editions of MI1 and MI2 will never look dated (I personally prefer the pixels :P). ToMI may look dated at some point, but because the game looks so stylized I doubt it will be any time soon. EMI does of course look more dated then the others, but even that doesn't look THAT bad.
Personally I can understand any MI game being some one's favourite. (Even EMI, as it will be some peoples first MI experience).
P.S. To be completely fair though, favourite game is preference, but the overall best games in the series are definitely ToMI, MI2 and Curse. I definitely understand peoples love of MI1 though, it was the game that started it all and has nostalgic appeal.
Because the first two Monkey Island games have a nostalgic value for most players which automatically makes them better.
This is entirely unfair, especially when you realize that Curse was the first Monkey Island experience for many people. The game came out nearly 15 years ago, so many people who are either in their teens or are young adults now played the game when they were kids, and it has just as much "nostalgia" attached to it for those people, and the drastic tonal and story differences of that title that make it a poor sequel to the original games then color its fans' perceptions of the original titles. It works both ways in this regard.
In any case, Tales will never be as great as LeChuck's Revenge or even Curse, because it doesn't do anything that the others didn't. All three of the previous games did something that made it incredible in its own right:
The first game did a lot to advance things like special animations in adventure games for specific important story elements, expanded and improved the scrolling scenes used in Maniac Mansion, scaling character sprites, and of course it created the characters, world, and many musical cues and themes that would become series staples, as well as the penning of puzzles that would later become adventure game classics in their own right due to their cleverness and stark difference from those that existed in other adventure games of the time.
The second was innovative as fuck as well. We had artists like Purcell painting backgrounds that would later be digitized, which greatly increased the complexity and artistry of in-game background elements. Music now used the iMUSE system, which allowed dynamic manipulation of in-game music through player action, allowing the soundtrack to adapt to the on-screen cues in a way that other scores could not(and still can't!). It opened up the world so that it was a sprawling, nonlinear adventure in which you could tackle problems in whatever damn order you pleased. The world was huge and this made exploration a blast. The cutscenes and scripted events are improved yet again, leading to a far better-realized world.
And hey, even Curse featured the final revamp of the SCUMM system and tossed in the then-standard voicework and CD-quality sound and backgrounds.
Tales doesn't, and really couldn't, contribute anything as important as any of these, really. The game can't be considered "great" as part of the series. In that way, Tales of Monkey Island could only be a romp through a nostalgia-laden version of the universe, that nostalgia itself holding the game back from real greatness(with many callbacks, references, and otherwise derivative elements overriding the bulk of the experience). This doesn't mean Tales wasn't fun(I certainly enjoyed most of it), and that it doesn't have glimmers of true greatness(the "ring" puzzle at the end was a stroke of genius), but on the whole neither it(nor arguably Curse) can live up to its predecessors.
I hadn't played the games at all until maybe half a year ago, so the MI series certainly isn't really nostalgic for me - not yet, anyway - but I thought that Revenge was easily the best. Sure, all of them were good, but Revenge was the king. Curse is the runner-up.
This is entirely unfair, especially when you realize that Curse was the first Monkey Island experience for many people. The game came out nearly 15 years ago, so many people who are either in their teens or are young adults now played the game when they were kids, and it has just as much "nostalgia" attached to it for those people, and the drastic tonal and story differences of that title that make it a poor sequel to the original games then color its fans' perceptions of the original titles. It works both ways in this regard.
Yeah, this is a fair point, actually. A significant of people here did begin with 'Curse'. However it would seem that most people were introduced to the series with the first two games.
In any case, Tales will never be as great as LeChuck's Revenge or even Curse, because it doesn't do anything that the others didn't.
I'm willing to say it had a better storyline, and I think that 'Tales...' went where the others didn't in the fact that it explored other avenues/styles of writing than mostly just comedy.
In that way, Tales of Monkey Island could only be a romp through a nostalgia-laden version of the universe, that nostalgia itself holding the game back from real greatness(with many callbacks, references, and otherwise derivative elements overriding the bulk of the experience). This doesn't mean Tales wasn't fun(I certainly enjoyed most of it), and that it doesn't have glimmers of true greatness(the "ring" puzzle at the end was a stroke of genius), but on the whole neither it(nor arguably Curse) can live up to its predecessors.
I agree that the many references to past games - in what I assume was simply just an effort to make an unneeded connection to the rest of the series - did detract from the overall enjoyment and quality of the game. However, 'Tales...' relied less upon nostalgia than I thought it would have. I was quite surprised that they actually decided to use an entirely different setting than all of the past games (with the game taking place in the Gulf of Melange as opposed to the Tri-Island Area). Also, for every reference-joke that was thrown in there, there were at least two-or-so original jokes to make up for it. Of course, having around a third of the humour being generated from making references to other games & franchises isn't really acceptable, but it's sure-as-hell a lot better than the majority of humour I find in adventure games these days ('Jack Keane' being the worst offender in terms of awful humour).
But, as I said, these references were most probably done mostly with the intent of connecting 'Tales...' to the other four games. They were the first company apart from LucasArts to take on a Monkey Island project. There would have been a lot of pressure on them to make this game feel like a Monkey Island game. So this large amount of referencing and throwbacks to previous games was a mistake that Telltale were almost inevitably going to make. It's something that I can personally forgive given it was Telltale's first time around.
I think that when or if they do a second season, then they'll most probably be able to do away with all of this constant referencing and give up a higher quality game. If not, then I'll be rather disappointed, but I doubt they'd be that stupid as to tie the game down with that rubbish.
Also, hopefully Telltale can eliminate the terrible linearity that 'Tales...' had. But, of course, they're only going to be able to do this if they change the development/release schedule that they currently have.
I recently went and played through all the MI games. I enjoyed and liked tales the best. While I would say its easiest, I would say it has the best story, best char, and locations.
Definately CMI. It was the first Monkey Island that I ever played and the artwork is just brilliant. I actually learned the basics of english by playing Monkey Island and I've been a huge obsessed fan ever since
Lechuck's Revenge
Curse of Monkey Island
Secret of Monkey Island
Tales of Monkey Island
Escape From Monkey Island
That could be more or less exactly how I would list them, but I think I'd put Secret over Curse for no good reason other than it was the game that started it all, and I'd say both games are equally fantastic.
Well as I didn't post it before, my list (which is doesn't use nostalgia and go's honestly by the game itself) is:
1. Tales of Monkey Island
2. LeChucks Revenge Monkey Island 2
3. Curse of Monkey Island
4. The Secret of Monkey Island
5. Escape From Monkey Island
But really I think the MI's fit into 3 groups 'perfect', 'great' and 'good' and I'd say ToMI, Curse and MI2 are in the 'perfect' tier and MI1 is in the 'great' tier. MI1 was of course once as perfect as the others, but imo it's a little slower paced now and just isn't quite as smooth (of course it will always have nostalgia appeal though).
So the fact that these 4 are so great actually makes me feel a little sorry for EMI, as it still fits in as a 'good' game, but it's just not up to the standards of the others. Due largely to the story, the plot holes and the 'kiddie' feel that comes across at times.
But overall all I can say is the Monkey Island series as a whole is perfect.
are you saying that because your serious or are you trying to piss everyone off?
'
Why would it piss everyone off? Seriously Escape wasn't THAT bad, it just wasn't as good as the others. But aside from that if that's someone's opinion then their entitled too it.
Why can't people respect each others opinions? Seriously, saying "this MI game is the best, FACT" and "no your wrong!" is just plain stupid. First saying a MI game is the best is fine, but it's not a fact it's your opinion, and second when your opinion differs from someone else's that's fine, but it does NOT make their opinion wrong.
I'm sorry but this whole 'your opinion's wrong' thing and the 'my opinion is fact' thing are both driving me nuts! DX
Why can't people respect each others opinions? Seriously, saying "this MI game is the best, FACT" and "no your wrong!" is just plain stupid. First saying a MI game is the best is fine, but it's not a fact it's your opinion, and second when your opinion differs from someone else's that's fine, but it does NOT make their opinion wrong.
I'm sorry but this whole 'your opinion's wrong' thing and the 'my opinion is fact' thing are both driving me nuts! DX
There are only two kinds of opinions in the world. The correct opinion, and everyone else's opinion.
What is so good about Lechuck's Revenge? I don't remember it being THAT GOOD by any aspect
The music, the humour, the visual art (although it became quite "muddled" due to the scanning and stuff - the remake looks much better imo), the puzzles, the story and the overall "feel" was simply great in my opinion.
No ones going to deal with it just like you don't when people tell you EMI isn't the best. I think its pointless people trying to tell each other that there choice is the actual best game since its all relative to opinions.
The oldies are going to vote for LeChuck's Revenge. Noobs are going to vote for CMI. Hence the low SOMI score. If you're old enough to have played MI1 or 2 on release, there's a good chance one of those will be your favourite. If you started the game out with CMI, theres a good chance that will be your favourite.
You are 1 person, there are always exceptions. I still believe that the majority will fall under my theory.
I started playing with MI2, and I put Tales as my fav. It's opinion dude. lol, I find it funny that you refer to the people who start with CMI and have there fore been playing MI for 14 years, as noobs. Seriously dude? As MI fans the truth is, even people that started on EMI are pretty much experts on the series now.
Yh with the long absence between EMI and Tales everyone's pretty much managed to play them all over and over. The only "noobs" are probably people who started on TMI but with the SE's its easyer to catch up.
Yh with the long absence between EMI and Tales everyone's pretty much managed to play them all over and over. The only "noobs" are probably people who started on TMI but with the SE's its easyer to catch up.
True, there's not really many 'noobs' any more. I played MI2 in 96, so I've been playing for 15 years now (NOOO!!!! I'M OLD!) but by Stareyes definition of a noob, I'd still be a noob as I didn't play MI2 the year it came out and didn't start with MI1.
The way I see it, people are entitled to think what they want, so who cares if someone thinks EMI is the best? Sure I personally don't agree, but that doesn't mean EMI shouldn't be their favourite.
I never intended "noob" as some kind of insult (more of a tongue-in-cheek), just that I would divide Monkey Islands fans into (at least) two catagories. Those that have been one since the beginning of the franchise, and those who are introduced later, which would often be CMI because it was around that time when gaming seriously hit massmarket (thanks to the success of the Sony Playstation).
Maybe if people would stop reading on forums with such a defensive stance and cynicism, they wouldn't feel so offended by non-offensive posts. I had no agenda with my post, only throwing out a theory that I still holds some water. I never said falling into either of the catagories was right or wrong. I never said "you started playing MI long after I did, you dumb noob, lol, your opinion doesn't count!", or anything like that.
I never intended "noob" as some kind of insult (more of a tongue-in-cheek), just that I would divide Monkey Islands fans into (at least) two catagories. Those that have been one since the beginning of the franchise, and those who are introduced later, which would often be CMI because it was around that time when gaming seriously hit massmarket (thanks to the success of the Sony Playstation).
Maybe if people would stop reading on forums with such a defensive stance and cynicism, they wouldn't feel so offended by non-offensive posts. I had no agenda with my post, only throwing out a theory that I still holds some water. I never said falling into either of the catagories was right or wrong. I never said "you started playing MI long after I did, you dumb noob, lol, your opinion doesn't count!", or anything like that.
God, I hate the internet.
/facepalm
Considering the term 'noob' is an offensive term, I think we had a right to be defensive. Would you walk up to a black man call him the N word and then be surprised when he was offended? Or even walk up to him and casually throw the word out while talking to him and think that it's OK as it wasn't directed at him? No. While noob isn't anywhere near on that scale, it's the same basic principle. If you don't want people to be offended by posts don't include offensive terms in your post with no context (or even the context that everyone who started MI after you is a noob, which is how your post came across) and then act like you've been wronged when people react to it.
Partial intolerance is as bad, if not worse, then out and out hate, you might want to remember that.
I played Grim Fandango first, then Curse, Escape, Secret and finally Revenge. I think Escape is better in every way, best jokes, best soundtrack, best puzzles, best backgrounds etc. I still love the others, though.
Comments
Because the first two Monkey Island games have a nostalgic value for most players which automatically makes them better. And 'LeChuck's Revenge' was simply the better of the two. But anyway, all of that aside, 'LeChuck's Revenge' is a damn good adventure game - there's actually a fair reason why it's constantly voted best.
Personally I'd say ToMI is the best and Curse was my first MI game back in 98. Now while MI2 and Curse are amazing ToMI is just that little bit better imo, with the puzzles being more logical, the game being more 'hint friendly' for the new players, a more stylized look, the best voice acting so far (save for the first LeChuck) and a epic story.
This isn't to say the other MI's don't have all these qualities, they are all excellent (even EMI has good points if we're fair, it's more the story of EMI that was a bit of a 'what?' point), it's just ToMI kicked everything up a notch.
But to be fair Curse doesn't look dated and never will, and the special editions of MI1 and MI2 will never look dated (I personally prefer the pixels :P). ToMI may look dated at some point, but because the game looks so stylized I doubt it will be any time soon. EMI does of course look more dated then the others, but even that doesn't look THAT bad.
Personally I can understand any MI game being some one's favourite. (Even EMI, as it will be some peoples first MI experience).
P.S. To be completely fair though, favourite game is preference, but the overall best games in the series are definitely ToMI, MI2 and Curse. I definitely understand peoples love of MI1 though, it was the game that started it all and has nostalgic appeal.
I played all of them side by side for the first time about 2 years ago. I still thought the second one was the best.
In any case, Tales will never be as great as LeChuck's Revenge or even Curse, because it doesn't do anything that the others didn't. All three of the previous games did something that made it incredible in its own right:
The first game did a lot to advance things like special animations in adventure games for specific important story elements, expanded and improved the scrolling scenes used in Maniac Mansion, scaling character sprites, and of course it created the characters, world, and many musical cues and themes that would become series staples, as well as the penning of puzzles that would later become adventure game classics in their own right due to their cleverness and stark difference from those that existed in other adventure games of the time.
The second was innovative as fuck as well. We had artists like Purcell painting backgrounds that would later be digitized, which greatly increased the complexity and artistry of in-game background elements. Music now used the iMUSE system, which allowed dynamic manipulation of in-game music through player action, allowing the soundtrack to adapt to the on-screen cues in a way that other scores could not(and still can't!). It opened up the world so that it was a sprawling, nonlinear adventure in which you could tackle problems in whatever damn order you pleased. The world was huge and this made exploration a blast. The cutscenes and scripted events are improved yet again, leading to a far better-realized world.
And hey, even Curse featured the final revamp of the SCUMM system and tossed in the then-standard voicework and CD-quality sound and backgrounds.
Tales doesn't, and really couldn't, contribute anything as important as any of these, really. The game can't be considered "great" as part of the series. In that way, Tales of Monkey Island could only be a romp through a nostalgia-laden version of the universe, that nostalgia itself holding the game back from real greatness(with many callbacks, references, and otherwise derivative elements overriding the bulk of the experience). This doesn't mean Tales wasn't fun(I certainly enjoyed most of it), and that it doesn't have glimmers of true greatness(the "ring" puzzle at the end was a stroke of genius), but on the whole neither it(nor arguably Curse) can live up to its predecessors.
This is why I typed the second sentence of my post.
Yeah, this is a fair point, actually. A significant of people here did begin with 'Curse'. However it would seem that most people were introduced to the series with the first two games.
Nice analogy.
I'm willing to say it had a better storyline, and I think that 'Tales...' went where the others didn't in the fact that it explored other avenues/styles of writing than mostly just comedy.
I agree that the many references to past games - in what I assume was simply just an effort to make an unneeded connection to the rest of the series - did detract from the overall enjoyment and quality of the game. However, 'Tales...' relied less upon nostalgia than I thought it would have. I was quite surprised that they actually decided to use an entirely different setting than all of the past games (with the game taking place in the Gulf of Melange as opposed to the Tri-Island Area). Also, for every reference-joke that was thrown in there, there were at least two-or-so original jokes to make up for it. Of course, having around a third of the humour being generated from making references to other games & franchises isn't really acceptable, but it's sure-as-hell a lot better than the majority of humour I find in adventure games these days ('Jack Keane' being the worst offender in terms of awful humour).
But, as I said, these references were most probably done mostly with the intent of connecting 'Tales...' to the other four games. They were the first company apart from LucasArts to take on a Monkey Island project. There would have been a lot of pressure on them to make this game feel like a Monkey Island game. So this large amount of referencing and throwbacks to previous games was a mistake that Telltale were almost inevitably going to make. It's something that I can personally forgive given it was Telltale's first time around.
I think that when or if they do a second season, then they'll most probably be able to do away with all of this constant referencing and give up a higher quality game. If not, then I'll be rather disappointed, but I doubt they'd be that stupid as to tie the game down with that rubbish.
Also, hopefully Telltale can eliminate the terrible linearity that 'Tales...' had. But, of course, they're only going to be able to do this if they change the development/release schedule that they currently have.
Lechuck's Revenge
Curse of Monkey Island
Secret of Monkey Island
Tales of Monkey Island
Escape From Monkey Island
That could be more or less exactly how I would list them, but I think I'd put Secret over Curse for no good reason other than it was the game that started it all, and I'd say both games are equally fantastic.
1. Tales of Monkey Island
2. LeChucks Revenge Monkey Island 2
3. Curse of Monkey Island
4. The Secret of Monkey Island
5. Escape From Monkey Island
But really I think the MI's fit into 3 groups 'perfect', 'great' and 'good' and I'd say ToMI, Curse and MI2 are in the 'perfect' tier and MI1 is in the 'great' tier. MI1 was of course once as perfect as the others, but imo it's a little slower paced now and just isn't quite as smooth (of course it will always have nostalgia appeal though).
So the fact that these 4 are so great actually makes me feel a little sorry for EMI, as it still fits in as a 'good' game, but it's just not up to the standards of the others. Due largely to the story, the plot holes and the 'kiddie' feel that comes across at times.
But overall all I can say is the Monkey Island series as a whole is perfect.
are you saying that because your serious or are you trying to piss everyone off?
'
Probably both:D
I liked Escape better Secret.
Why would it piss everyone off? Seriously Escape wasn't THAT bad, it just wasn't as good as the others. But aside from that if that's someone's opinion then their entitled too it.
look that is just plain not true. I doubt you actually think it is really the best. Monkey island 2 is the best. There is no arguing with that
I'm sorry but this whole 'your opinion's wrong' thing and the 'my opinion is fact' thing are both driving me nuts! DX
I think Monkey Island 3 is the best. Look there is arguing with that!
lol, Exactly my point. :P
There are only two kinds of opinions in the world. The correct opinion, and everyone else's opinion.
The music, the humour, the visual art (although it became quite "muddled" due to the scanning and stuff - the remake looks much better imo), the puzzles, the story and the overall "feel" was simply great in my opinion.
No ones going to deal with it just like you don't when people tell you EMI isn't the best. I think its pointless people trying to tell each other that there choice is the actual best game since its all relative to opinions.
I started playing with MI2, and I put Tales as my fav. It's opinion dude. lol, I find it funny that you refer to the people who start with CMI and have there fore been playing MI for 14 years, as noobs. Seriously dude? As MI fans the truth is, even people that started on EMI are pretty much experts on the series now.
True, there's not really many 'noobs' any more. I played MI2 in 96, so I've been playing for 15 years now (NOOO!!!! I'M OLD!) but by Stareyes definition of a noob, I'd still be a noob as I didn't play MI2 the year it came out and didn't start with MI1.
The way I see it, people are entitled to think what they want, so who cares if someone thinks EMI is the best? Sure I personally don't agree, but that doesn't mean EMI shouldn't be their favourite.
Maybe if people would stop reading on forums with such a defensive stance and cynicism, they wouldn't feel so offended by non-offensive posts. I had no agenda with my post, only throwing out a theory that I still holds some water. I never said falling into either of the catagories was right or wrong. I never said "you started playing MI long after I did, you dumb noob, lol, your opinion doesn't count!", or anything like that.
God, I hate the internet.
/facepalm
Considering the term 'noob' is an offensive term, I think we had a right to be defensive. Would you walk up to a black man call him the N word and then be surprised when he was offended? Or even walk up to him and casually throw the word out while talking to him and think that it's OK as it wasn't directed at him? No. While noob isn't anywhere near on that scale, it's the same basic principle. If you don't want people to be offended by posts don't include offensive terms in your post with no context (or even the context that everyone who started MI after you is a noob, which is how your post came across) and then act like you've been wronged when people react to it.
Partial intolerance is as bad, if not worse, then out and out hate, you might want to remember that.