A whole lot bigger than other companies/indies who are doing it. Beside of this, once you found the right people, this is work you can outsource as well.
Bigger then 2D Boy [2] and Introversion [3: They had to fire everyone due to Darwinia+ being a financial failure and due to MS constant complaints and having them spend way more then planned on the game] :P
But, what is your employee size count for fair judgement?
I'm not trolling, I seriously just want to know lol.
It always pays out if you're enlarging your horizon.
Actually most games support it, at least the ones i buy. Adventures related i remember foreign language support in more recent productions like for instance Lost Horizon, Monkey Island 2 SE, Broken Sword DC, 1112. There for sure exist more adventures and other genres which support it as well but i don't buy them all.
If you know the games you can look up the companies on your own. Anyway it's done by smaller indies and if it would be higher on a priority list at TTG, we would have seen it since years.
I'm pretty sure that the smaller independent company who released TSOMI SE (which I'm pretty sure is Monkey Island1, by the way ) is just a tiny bit bigger than Telltale.
But as i wrote, many games support it, those were just the adventures i more recently bought. It's not that you have to deliver the source and hardcode the translations anymore as well and you even add forgein language support to smaller webgames since quite some time.
A little bit more Yes we can at TTG relating this topic would be nice.
Sam and Max season 1 and 2 were done by Gametap. I can assume ToMI was done by Lucas Arts. I dunno if S&M 3 is. I don't believe SB is. If Wallace and Grommit is, it's more then likely due to the movie studio. CSI is due to Ubisoft.
So, how are others, without some cash from Universal, able to do it?
Here's a little bit of info about the companies who created the games you mentioned earlier:
- Broken Sword DC was made by Revolution Software. The game was released on Wii and DS by Ubisoft (pretty big company) and later on PC by Kalypso Media (a company that has publishing offices in Germany, Great Britain and North America).
- Lost Horizon, created by Animation Arts, was published by Deep Silver, Koch Media's video game label. Koch Media's head office is in Planegg, Munich, with subsidiaries in England, France, Austria, Switzerland, Italy, Spain, the Nordic regions, Benelux and the USA.
I couldn't find too many details about the languages for 1112, but I'm thinking that the translations might be fan-made (and editor-approved). However, I could be very wrong.
Another thing is that people don't just expect subtitles, they also want dubs (if possible, with the original dubbers).
While translations are costly, dubs are also quite expensive. Additionally, the dubs will have to match the subtitles (and therefore, the translation and the dubbing in any given language should be handled by the same company).
All in all, international dubs are something that Telltale simply cannot afford (on their own) at this time (maybe once they've sold a few million seasons of BTTF...).
Why not tinker with the subtitles to make them editable by the end user? Then fans can translate them unofficially. It's a great way of getting a great community help the company and help themselves
it might be a lot of work but it'd pay off in the long-run
@Elvenmonk
I'm not sure what's unclear about my statement(s).
@Macfly77
As i wrote already, there are many games of every scale which provide support for foreign languages in one form or another, a.o. this also is true for most adventures coming from germany or spain which usually are developed by way smaller devs.
Whilst i understand the price discussion and certain issues for dubs, i don't see it for subtitles. This is doable if you have it on your i care about list.
@JedExodus
It's kind of ridiculous that the users have to provide the subtitles for a production of this size but whilst we're at it, maybe we should also package and add the installer on our own then. In rare cases it could lead to funny experiences but i doubt this could be a valid general solution.
More than five years have passed and we still have to discuss about something rudimental like support for forgein subtitles, lame.
this also is true for most adventures coming from germany or spain which usually are developed by way smaller devs.
Don't you think the market would be a bit too narrow if their target was only Spanish/German speaking audience? English has established itself as the global language for everything whereas German is rather insignificant. English is the only language that has enough global potential to have a market broad enough to make good profit on its own.
Obviously the reason is to enlarge the target audience but what matters is that these games end up with more language support than TTG offers and they achieve this whilst having less resources as well.
Obviously the reason is to enlarge the target audience but what matters is that these games end up with more language support than TTG offers and they achieve this whilst having less resources as well.
Perhaps you're right, although I haven't seen you mention any specific examples of companies that definitely fewer resources than Telltale.
But even if you ARE right, are those companies working on the same monthly production schedule?
From what we understand, Telltale keeps working on their games up until the day of release. Having to then go back and add the translations/subtitles would inevitably cause delays.
Plus, those smaller games you mentioned from Germany and Spain probably have people on the staff who know the different languages, a resource Telltale may not have. Without multilingual staff members, Telltale could be stuck using a BabelFish-esque translation, making the game play like a 1983 instruction manual from Japan. :P
@PainDealer
I suspect less than making a translation for the german market.
It would be an interesting research to get detailed numbers about how this pays out for certain products and countries, and i'm sure it differs from product to product as well but looking at how these things are dealt with normally and involving some common sense it doesn't seem to bankrupt developers.
Maybe those who prefer playing games in their native not english language or together with their kids aren't the target audience of TTG but then again i'm also not a shareholder of TTG.
@JedExodus
It's kind of ridiculous that the users have to provide the subtitles for a production of this size but whilst we're at it, maybe we should also package and add the installer on our own then. In rare cases it could lead to funny experiences but i doubt this could be a valid general solution.
More than five years have passed and we still have to discuss about something rudimental like support for forgein subtitles, lame.
Other larger studios outsource translations to the community. Valve did it for the L4D comic making versions of the comic with no text so people can translate into their own language.
I'd wager TT's major source of income comes from English speaking countries or those who can speak/understand English in non English speaking countries.
With a company who's trying to push games out on an episodic scale monthly with limited means it's just too much to ask. Fan translations would however make the games more accessible to non-English speakers, get a good gauge of interest in these markets and elminate the extra manpower, time and money such a task would take
@doggans
I'm definately right, i just suck at the motivation/taking the time to dig out stats to games for you.
Maybe it helps having a better understanding if you've been playing video games since a pretty long time and/or have been developing video games on your own as well. Believe it or not it's doable and done by other companies.
The roughly monthly schedule makes things more spicy and i don't know their workflow but i don't see that it can't be done. Even if it would be too much hassle, you also don't get it on the season DVDs. Personally i would happily trade the so far provided DVD features for foreign subtitles support and wait until they are released and/or the downloads are updated.
Here is the deal, i buy BTTF if we get german subtitles. :O)
Again, I'm sure Telltale would love to provide foreign subtitles if it's feasible. But as you admitted, you don't know their workflow. There could be a number of factors we're not even aware of that make translation a difficult endeavor.
Me personally, I want all existing Telltale games to be ported to Mac. I want to be able to play Sam and Max Season 1 and Strong Bad without using CrossOver, and to be able to play Wallace and Gromit without digging out my old clunky Dell laptop. But I know that the conversion takes more than just flipping a switch. It probably involves all sorts of things I would never even think of, and the priority for Telltale's small-but-dedicated staff is new games.
Similarly, the process for translating, even just the subtitles, includes more than just going to a translator. Unless the game is specifically planned out and built from the beginning to accommodate translation--which, again, requires multilingual writers, something we don't know if Telltale has access to--then the programmers need to go back into the game and work out the location in the script, timing, etc. of every single translated line. And I'm sure there's even more variables that have to be accounted for than I could guess. Is all this doable? Possibly, But they have to consider the cost-benefit analysis. Telltale doesn't just decide on a whim to do or not do things; they have to consider what's best for the company AND the customers.
Again, I'm sure that many companies, even perhaps companies smaller than Telltale, are able to provide translation, But just because they have fewer resources than Telltale, it doesn't mean they don't have better resources where translation is concerned. Without thorough knowledge of the systems and processes of each company, it's impossible to really accurately compare them and judge what's possible for each of them.
I want to be able to play Sam and Max Season 1 and Strong Bad without using CrossOver, and to be able to play Wallace and Gromit without digging out my old clunky Dell laptop.
Any reason why you don't use CrossOver for Wallace & Gromit?
I had to "tinker" with the launcher a little bit (see here) but it worked great afterwards.
@doggans
Nothing more to add beside of that contrary to Sam&Max 3, i remember Lost Horizon beeing a very relaxing experience playing together with kids.
Any reason why you don't use CrossOver for Wallace & Gromit?
I had to "tinker" with the launcher a little bit (see here) but it worked great afterwards.
Hmm, that tip might have been posted more recently than the last time I tried. Either that, or I tried the tip and it didn't work for me. But I recall even going to the CrossOver tips section and still not getting it to work. Maybe I'll give it another shot when I have more free time.
@doggans
Nothing more to add beside of that contrary to Sam&Max 3, i remember Lost Horizon beeing a very relaxing experience playing together with kids.
Yes, and Lost Horizon was published by Deep Silver, a company which (according to Wikipedia) has several international subsidiaries, something Telltale absolutely does not have.
As much fun as your hyperbole is, I already explained how there are probably factors we're not aware of that go into "translating some text" for five adventure games in a row.
Incidentally, I live in the US, speak English, and am not part of the Telltale staff, so I have absolutely no personal stake in this discussion. I just enjoy discussing things. :P
I enjoy discussions as well as long as they stay reasonable, interesting or funny. The experiences i made speak against your opinions and those of some others made in this thread. I think i said what i feel about this topic and as my time is limited for typing stuff on forums and i'm not motivated to convert people on the internet as well, it gets kind of superfluous.
Maybe others have something meaningful to add. I'm out...
If I were TellTale Games I would solely provide a sub-title translation.
Fans would appreciate that. No need to having lines re-read or credt screens adjusted.
I mean it's always been like that with most EU countries with american movies released in EU(some do dubbing).
How much would the translation of one episode cost? I estimate an episode to be around 30 pages of script. Maybe 1500 dollars?
Then again, it might not be worth it. Because you don't get to expand your userbase much. People will only shift from the initial base to using translated eps.
How much would the translation of one episode cost? I estimate an episode to be around 30 pages of script. Maybe 1500 dollars?
Whoa, whoa! You're assuming many, many things here. Yes, you may translate 30 pages for 1500$, if you really, really want it. But that won't do you any good. First of all, there's probably far more text per episode than 30 pages, then you'll have to consider that this budget won't get you a skilled translator (or a professional one at that), and then you would even be stuck with a person who would translate this without considering the circumstances in the game, which makes for a desastrous translation. Most of the jokes would be lost and even those remaining would just sound bad.
To translate creative texts, you will need not only someone who is a skilled translator, but a copywriter as well (or two or three of them). These will not be paid per base line, I can tell you. These people will of course be Natives of the language they translate into and reside in the respective countries (for Telltale, that's a massive problem at the time and defines the need to cooperate with companies like Daedalic in Germany). These copywriters will then really have to get into the game before translating even the first line of it (and that takes time) and then begin research, if they're actually "good".
There's so much to be done here that exceeds a "simple translation", and we're not even talking dubbing. That's where the really big bucks flow.
Comments
Which ones?
I'm not trolling, I seriously just want to know lol.
But, what is your employee size count for fair judgement?
Actually most games support it, at least the ones i buy. Adventures related i remember foreign language support in more recent productions like for instance Lost Horizon, Monkey Island 2 SE, Broken Sword DC, 1112. There for sure exist more adventures and other genres which support it as well but i don't buy them all.
But as i wrote, many games support it, those were just the adventures i more recently bought. It's not that you have to deliver the source and hardcode the translations anymore as well and you even add forgein language support to smaller webgames since quite some time.
A little bit more Yes we can at TTG relating this topic would be nice.
Here's a little bit of info about the companies who created the games you mentioned earlier:
- Broken Sword DC was made by Revolution Software. The game was released on Wii and DS by Ubisoft (pretty big company) and later on PC by Kalypso Media (a company that has publishing offices in Germany, Great Britain and North America).
- Lost Horizon, created by Animation Arts, was published by Deep Silver, Koch Media's video game label. Koch Media's head office is in Planegg, Munich, with subsidiaries in England, France, Austria, Switzerland, Italy, Spain, the Nordic regions, Benelux and the USA.
I couldn't find too many details about the languages for 1112, but I'm thinking that the translations might be fan-made (and editor-approved). However, I could be very wrong.
Another thing is that people don't just expect subtitles, they also want dubs (if possible, with the original dubbers).
While translations are costly, dubs are also quite expensive. Additionally, the dubs will have to match the subtitles (and therefore, the translation and the dubbing in any given language should be handled by the same company).
All in all, international dubs are something that Telltale simply cannot afford (on their own) at this time (maybe once they've sold a few million seasons of BTTF...).
it might be a lot of work but it'd pay off in the long-run
I'm not sure what's unclear about my statement(s).
@Macfly77
As i wrote already, there are many games of every scale which provide support for foreign languages in one form or another, a.o. this also is true for most adventures coming from germany or spain which usually are developed by way smaller devs.
Whilst i understand the price discussion and certain issues for dubs, i don't see it for subtitles. This is doable if you have it on your i care about list.
@JedExodus
It's kind of ridiculous that the users have to provide the subtitles for a production of this size but whilst we're at it, maybe we should also package and add the installer on our own then. In rare cases it could lead to funny experiences but i doubt this could be a valid general solution.
More than five years have passed and we still have to discuss about something rudimental like support for forgein subtitles, lame.
Don't you think the market would be a bit too narrow if their target was only Spanish/German speaking audience? English has established itself as the global language for everything whereas German is rather insignificant. English is the only language that has enough global potential to have a market broad enough to make good profit on its own.
I guess he's asking how other companies are able to do the translations on their own and Telltale isn't.
Perhaps you're right, although I haven't seen you mention any specific examples of companies that definitely fewer resources than Telltale.
But even if you ARE right, are those companies working on the same monthly production schedule?
From what we understand, Telltale keeps working on their games up until the day of release. Having to then go back and add the translations/subtitles would inevitably cause delays.
Plus, those smaller games you mentioned from Germany and Spain probably have people on the staff who know the different languages, a resource Telltale may not have. Without multilingual staff members, Telltale could be stuck using a BabelFish-esque translation, making the game play like a 1983 instruction manual from Japan. :P
I suspect less than making a translation for the german market.
It would be an interesting research to get detailed numbers about how this pays out for certain products and countries, and i'm sure it differs from product to product as well but looking at how these things are dealt with normally and involving some common sense it doesn't seem to bankrupt developers.
Maybe those who prefer playing games in their native not english language or together with their kids aren't the target audience of TTG but then again i'm also not a shareholder of TTG.
Hey, BabelFish was how I passed Spanish in high school.
Those manuals were also very fun to read.
And I always thought "All your base are belong to us" was proper English :eek:
Other larger studios outsource translations to the community. Valve did it for the L4D comic making versions of the comic with no text so people can translate into their own language.
I'd wager TT's major source of income comes from English speaking countries or those who can speak/understand English in non English speaking countries.
With a company who's trying to push games out on an episodic scale monthly with limited means it's just too much to ask. Fan translations would however make the games more accessible to non-English speakers, get a good gauge of interest in these markets and elminate the extra manpower, time and money such a task would take
I'm definately right, i just suck at the motivation/taking the time to dig out stats to games for you.
Maybe it helps having a better understanding if you've been playing video games since a pretty long time and/or have been developing video games on your own as well. Believe it or not it's doable and done by other companies.
The roughly monthly schedule makes things more spicy and i don't know their workflow but i don't see that it can't be done. Even if it would be too much hassle, you also don't get it on the season DVDs. Personally i would happily trade the so far provided DVD features for foreign subtitles support and wait until they are released and/or the downloads are updated.
Here is the deal, i buy BTTF if we get german subtitles. :O)
Well, I guess I can't argue with that. :P
Again, I'm sure Telltale would love to provide foreign subtitles if it's feasible. But as you admitted, you don't know their workflow. There could be a number of factors we're not even aware of that make translation a difficult endeavor.
Me personally, I want all existing Telltale games to be ported to Mac. I want to be able to play Sam and Max Season 1 and Strong Bad without using CrossOver, and to be able to play Wallace and Gromit without digging out my old clunky Dell laptop. But I know that the conversion takes more than just flipping a switch. It probably involves all sorts of things I would never even think of, and the priority for Telltale's small-but-dedicated staff is new games.
Similarly, the process for translating, even just the subtitles, includes more than just going to a translator. Unless the game is specifically planned out and built from the beginning to accommodate translation--which, again, requires multilingual writers, something we don't know if Telltale has access to--then the programmers need to go back into the game and work out the location in the script, timing, etc. of every single translated line. And I'm sure there's even more variables that have to be accounted for than I could guess. Is all this doable? Possibly, But they have to consider the cost-benefit analysis. Telltale doesn't just decide on a whim to do or not do things; they have to consider what's best for the company AND the customers.
Again, I'm sure that many companies, even perhaps companies smaller than Telltale, are able to provide translation, But just because they have fewer resources than Telltale, it doesn't mean they don't have better resources where translation is concerned. Without thorough knowledge of the systems and processes of each company, it's impossible to really accurately compare them and judge what's possible for each of them.
I had to "tinker" with the launcher a little bit (see here) but it worked great afterwards.
Nothing more to add beside of that contrary to Sam&Max 3, i remember Lost Horizon beeing a very relaxing experience playing together with kids.
Well that's a shame. You seem more than competent to play the English version.
Btw there being no translation doesn't mean there's no party. It's just that some have chosen not to turn up which is sad...
Hmm, that tip might have been posted more recently than the last time I tried. Either that, or I tried the tip and it didn't work for me. But I recall even going to the CrossOver tips section and still not getting it to work. Maybe I'll give it another shot when I have more free time.
Yes, and Lost Horizon was published by Deep Silver, a company which (according to Wikipedia) has several international subsidiaries, something Telltale absolutely does not have.
Incidentally, I live in the US, speak English, and am not part of the Telltale staff, so I have absolutely no personal stake in this discussion. I just enjoy discussing things. :P
Maybe others have something meaningful to add. I'm out...
Fans would appreciate that. No need to having lines re-read or credt screens adjusted.
I mean it's always been like that with most EU countries with american movies released in EU(some do dubbing).
How much would the translation of one episode cost? I estimate an episode to be around 30 pages of script. Maybe 1500 dollars?
Then again, it might not be worth it. Because you don't get to expand your userbase much. People will only shift from the initial base to using translated eps.
Whoa, whoa! You're assuming many, many things here. Yes, you may translate 30 pages for 1500$, if you really, really want it. But that won't do you any good. First of all, there's probably far more text per episode than 30 pages, then you'll have to consider that this budget won't get you a skilled translator (or a professional one at that), and then you would even be stuck with a person who would translate this without considering the circumstances in the game, which makes for a desastrous translation. Most of the jokes would be lost and even those remaining would just sound bad.
To translate creative texts, you will need not only someone who is a skilled translator, but a copywriter as well (or two or three of them). These will not be paid per base line, I can tell you. These people will of course be Natives of the language they translate into and reside in the respective countries (for Telltale, that's a massive problem at the time and defines the need to cooperate with companies like Daedalic in Germany). These copywriters will then really have to get into the game before translating even the first line of it (and that takes time) and then begin research, if they're actually "good".
There's so much to be done here that exceeds a "simple translation", and we're not even talking dubbing. That's where the really big bucks flow.