Confirmed: German dubbing and French subtitles (page 2)!
Just because one person at TTG offered his personal experiences, indicates in no way that the whole industry works this way. Put me on the opposite list where i worked on several projects where this worked out fine, once we found the right people.
Again with the right priority this can be done.
I find it kind of a questionable style closing threads in such a way. It has a bit of teenagers are moderating this forum, lacking experience and tolerance.
Again with the right priority this can be done.
I find it kind of a questionable style closing threads in such a way. It has a bit of teenagers are moderating this forum, lacking experience and tolerance.
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What are they afraid of?
Is it so difficult to say "we have no plan to translate Sam&Max3 in French right now"? Or to say "We are making agreements for a Spanish version of Tales"? Or "Strong Bad will never be localized"?
Why it's all so super-secret? What's the problem? Why even close the thread and shutting down the talking aboiut it?
And BTW, there are many small software house doing localizations. Frictional Games - a 5 (!!!) members games company - released all their games in 5 languages within a year, and "Amnesia", their last game, was multilanguage from day-1.
Having once done some work for a radio station, I can tell you that we were often made to sign agreements as to when- and how much we could- release information for things like CD releases. Telltale may be under the same sort of agreements, and may simply be unable to talk about these things. It's the same reason why actors have to be careful in saying what sort of projects they're working on, etc. It's written into their contracts what they are and are not allowed to talk about.
There are many reasons or these sorts of agreements- sometimes they're tentative and not yet reached price negotiations or the like. They'll tell you when they can. Until then, all we can really do is be patient.
I would imagine that Telltale Games' experience would be the most relevant information in a debate about whether or not Telltale Games is able to provide a translation. :P
That analogy is flawed, as (A) brakes are vital to car safety, and (B) brakes work universally; you don't have to create many different types of brakes for many different customers.
A better (but still not great) analogy would be a car manufacturer that only makes silver cars, versus manufacturers who make red, green, and blue cars. The other companies prove it's possible to make multicolored cars, but perhaps they have a contract with a company that makes different paints, or somebody in the company who can provide their own paints, while the first company only has access to metallic silver paints in their area. Maybe they'd even like to offer multiple colors of car, but they fear if they start offering a few colors, the floodgates will open and they'll have to offer EVERY color. What's more, they don't have the same contract with the paint company, and they don't have it in their budget to buy all the paints unless they remove, say, the car radio, and they feel the car radio is more important than multiple colors.
As you can see, I know even less about car manufacturing than I do about game design. :P
EDIT: Looks like I got beat. ^__^
If from day-1 they say that there will be localization in ie: French, Spanish and German, you avoid that fan-made subtitles appears on the web broking the market for an official import version.
Do TT want this? I don't know - I think that fan-made subtitles give better (and sooner) sales of the English game through their website.
BTW, I know people that are already prepared for a BTTF fan-made subtitles translation.
Nope, it's in no way flawed. It just illustrates in a very simple way what's going wrong here since years. More if you've worked on your own at other companies who build working brakes.
Um, it IS flawed, in at least two ways, which I just explained and even helpfully labeled "A" and "B". How are MY points wrong?
So do you really expect me to continue your weird argumentation about brakes like to tell you that a) support of native language also is vital for a noticeable percentage of the adventurer players (people who don't understand english at all or this well or just enjoy their native language a lot more) and b) that a.o. Toyota has nicely shown that not all brakes are working as they should?
Come on, if you join the discussion then please involve some respect for the intelligence and time of the others taking part in a discussion and spare us the hot air.
This discussion is about whether or not it is feasible for Telltale to provide translations, right? You claimed that it is, by using an analogy. I explained why that analogy doesn't work, while attempting to provide my own which tied it back in with the subject at hand.
But I can do this without analogies, too. I don't think anyone at Telltale is against doing translations IF THEY CAN. You seem to believe that just because some companies, even small ones, can provide translations, it means EVERY company should be able to. I say that there are other factors at work that we don't know about because we don't work at Telltale.
Define "experience". Experience in debate, or experience in game design?
Any experience in debate I may or may not have is hardly relevant, but I'm well aware of my lack of experience in game design. My argument, again, is WE DON'T KNOW why Telltale might not provide a translation, because WE DON'T KNOW what factors go into such a process AT TELLTALE. Even if I had worked for countless other gaming companies, I still wouldn't know how these things happen AT TELLTALE.
You're the one who started the "weird" brakes argument, my friend. But as long as we're still on it...
It's only vital for the ones who don't understand English at all. It's just a bonus luxury for people who know English but prefer their native language.
That's not the point I was making. The point I was making is that with brakes, you only need one basic design. You don't need to start from scratch and create different brakes for Spanish, German, French, etc. speakers. Therefore, brake manufacturing is not a good analogy for language translating.
It is not my intention to disrespect anybody's intelligence or time. I'm not just saying random stuff; I'm saying things that I actually believe are good points. If I raise an objection, it's because it's something I genuinely think your argument doesn't account for. If I ask a question, it's because I'm actually curious what your response is, not because I'm trying to waste anyone's time.
Just to make sure I'm understanding the debate properly (correct me if I'm wrong here), you're arguing that Telltale is definitely able to provide translations and they have absolutely no reason not to, right?
All I'm arguing is, we don't know if that's true. We don't know what reasons Telltale would have for not providing translations. We don't even know for sure that they're NOT providing translations, do we? I'm simply arguing that we cannot make assumptions about Telltale's resources and process, no matter how much we know about the way other companies work.
I'm not trying to be mean, or unreasonable, or anything. I'm not anti-translation. I'm just confident in the fact that if Telltale isn't providing one, they have a good reason, even if we don't know what it is.
Correct me if I'm wrong and missing the point here, but the translations wouldn't be that easy, well, if TT wanted to do them properly. It would mean changing the model's face expressions too in relation to the language. No?
a) The analogy works, if you get it.
b) If TTG would be really interested in translations then we would have seen them since quite some time. I say this based on my experiences as a gamer, as a developer and as someone how amongst others knows many people doing translations in their daily job as well. On top of that they have so many options offering them, afterwards by digital distribution, by the end of the season for the DVDs. Once again the competition is doing it. TTG has grown a lot, ... it simply is not on their priority list.
c) Experience in a lack of developing games or applications which invlove multilingual versions.
d) I'm aware that this list also contains people which seem to prefer believing almost everything TTG says but that doesn't mean i have to do this as well and throw years of experiences over board. You can do that if i you want to or have them, i won't.
e) I don't think you've brought up good points so far. Sadly discussions in this form on the internet have several disadvantages which you don't have when you're doing these kind of things sitting next to each other, face to face.
f) I say it for the x time, that if translations would have been important to them then we would have seen them since a pretty long time and this is based on several indications/facts which have already been stated above and in other posts before. I'm sure translations due to some reasons aren't in TTG focus and it's not because they aren't do or financeable. There does exist a conflict of interests though.
enough crossposting, thats evil
I guess I don't get it, then. No matter which way I look at it, the comparison doesn't work for me.
Bingo. Translations are not a priority. That DOESN'T mean they're against the idea of doing them; it simply means they have other things on the plate that they view as more important first. I'd be willing to bet that those other companies that offer translations don't offer some other feature that Telltale does offer.
I'm not trying to follow Telltale blindly like a sheep, but I have no reason to distrust them. And it just makes sense that if they're not doing translations--something that would expand the game to a wider audience and generate more income--then they have a good reason not to.
That's fine. Not everybody is going to agree with everybody else's reasoning. But it helps me understand your points better when you explain why my points aren't good, instead of merely saying "you're wrong" and accusing me of "excluding common sense", a statement I found rather insulting.
Meh, doesn't work, that's what they said for Tales of MI, etc...
If that means we either have to :
- Get it way too late
- Don't get it at all
- Get a horrible job (Sam and Max season 2, that wasn't even dubbed in some places and was pretty outrageously dubbed in some others)
It's not really helping us to wait for BTTF, when we look at what happened to the previous games...
Of course TellTale CAN'T translate themselves, no one is asking them to do so.
But I think they could be a little more regarding and motivated to find the right persons to do the job...
Cause there's not only Americans on earth, that are gamers, adventure games lovers, and BTTF fans ...
It would be like not releasing the Bluray edition in other countries... No point, right ?
I can accept the fact that Monkey Island is being... VERY late, cause it's an "old" licence and now gamers are kinda playing Call of Duty and crap like that, rather than good old Guybrush.. (though I think ToMI did fine, and the special editions sold well)
But as for BTTF, it's just so HUGE.
Moreover, Germans seem to get more "things" than others.
It also seems a german translation is already in the work.
Would be cool if we could hear about Spain France and Italia. (And yes it's arbitrary, but I didn't invent the famous "multi 5" which is Spanish English French German and Italian ... Those markets are pretty similar to the american market, that's why they often get favorized)
Well, then you finally agree that translations in the first place aren't a priority for TTG and not that they aren't something which couldn't be done. If so, this would be fine because from there on things start making sense. Personally i find it sad and disrespectful for a large part of their audience selling such a product worldwide without proper translations and whining around that it couldn't be done whilst knowing that it doesn't cost them their first borns.
As history has shown we already had the situation that TTG was trying to sell us some nonsense in order to make their decisions to appear more attractive. Therefore i prefer having my brain turned on.
Saying you're wrong sometimes just is the shortcut for a lot of text when you either don't feel after typing all this or have the time to do so whilst knowing that the other person just isn't right. Obviously this isn't the best way to do but on the other side it also can give the other person the opportunity to think about the statements as well. In less lucky cases you might appear arrogant but oh well worse things can happen in life.
I wouldn't say they're lying though.
It's just that when you don't really want something, nothing good can come out of it.
I'm pretty sure I never said that translations were IMPOSSIBLE; I said that they could very well be IMPLAUSIBLE. (Granted, I did use the word "can", which may have been a poor choice, so for that, I apologize.)
Anything is possible, but some things are harder for some companies, and any business needs to do a cost-benefit analysis. If it comes down between, for example, hiring a translator and hiring Christopher Lloyd, you can see why they'd pass over the translation. (And I'm not saying that was necessarily the ultimatum, I'm just giving it as a possible reason why they'd pass up translation.)
When did this happen?
Once again, you turn to a passive-aggressive indication that anybody who disagrees with your view is not thinking. That's a form of argumentum ad hominem, it's a logical fallacy, and it's another insulting statement.
In the immortal words of a certain sketch comedy group, "An argument is a connected series of statements intended to establish a proposition. It isn't just contradiction." Just saying I'm wrong over and over without actually explaining where my points fall apart is a case of argumentum ad nauseam, another logical fallacy. To fall back on it, and then claim that I don't have "respect for the intelligence and time of the others taking part in a discussion" comes off as hypocritical. You've claimed that I haven't raised good points, but I have been trying to raise points, instead of falling back on saying "you're wrong" and leaving it at that.
I'm not trying to attack you, and I apologize if any of this comes off as harsh, but I hope this helps you understand my perspective in this whole debate.
There have been several cases, one of them was the big discussion about point&click but i won't open this can for you again. The way you're straight to the point would turn this into a additional discussion which won't end until the end of year.
I'm not insulting you but if you prefer misinterpreting it this way, i can't stop you. I told you already above that i'm not fond of discussions about discussions, which is what you seem prefer talkting about.
So my suggestions would be, again, that we both just stop it. You're fine with the way TTG handles things and are kind of afraid that otherwise you might won't get valuable aspects in there. I say due to my experiences this is rubbish. You'll most probably enjoy BTTF. I won't buy it unless i don't get proper translations. Suum cuique.
My bet? English only.
Not clear if these will be ready on launch day, but good news for the German & French speakers nonetheless.
But I guess it's a pretty good thing for the french people who can't understand english well enough to play adventure games !
Thanks for telling us anyway !
http://www.telltalegames.com/company/pressreleases/id-121
It seems to imply those versions will be up the 22. (since they say it's a first for Telltale games to do it)
I love Telltale, but... what kind of logic is this?
The fact that french text version is up (and not just the full voice and text german one) kinda indicates they will add in the future more translations, text only of course.
The germans are known to be the country which likes "adventure games" the most. And as for the french, I think it may have to do with the Canada.
It might seem unfair but it's not, those translations are done so they give them to us right away. That's better than letting everybody wait for it till every one of them is done, in my opinion.
I was thinking that it was a matter of time (they hadn't time for sending the original text), but they had time to send the text for being translated in French and in German!
So guys, if Italian and Spanish people will be angry for that, seriously, there is a reason.
With that said I will still play BTTF in english on day one, but I hope that we will get someday an italian translation
Yeah! I want my BttF in Walloon!
And I want mine in Klingon!
Germany is the country where point and clicks have the most success(that's also why they have a dub). And as for French, I'm guessing it has something to do with the fact that the Canada has french speakers. (for instance a PSN release would need it since Canadian and American store update at the same time)
Good Job, Telltale! I like this!
I'm Italian, but I don't complain because you're on the right path!
Next time think about Italian and Spanish... but for now: GREAT NEWS!