Max's psychological state

edited January 2011 in Sam & Max
This concept might seem a little dark for Sam and Max, but was Max, on a subconscious level, feeling suicidal? It seems that Max felt disgusted with himself and his lifestyle and wanted it to end. But Max, being a postive lagomorph, repressed these feelings and never showed them to anyone(and seemed to be unaware of them himself).This Self-disgust was eventually personified as the Superego, who acted out Max's suicidal urges. But, like l said before, this idea seems a bit dark for such an upbeat series, and I'm probably overthinking it. Still, let me know what you guys think.

Comments

  • edited January 2011
    ragdoll556 wrote: »
    This concept might seem a little dark for Sam and Max, but was Max, on a subconscious level, feeling suicidal? It seems that Max felt disgusted with himself and his lifestyle and wanted it to end. But Max, being a postive lagomorph, repressed these feelings and never showed them to anyone(and seemed to be unaware of them himself).This Self-disgust was eventually personified as the Superego, who acted out Max's suicidal urges. But, like l said before, this idea seems a bit dark for such an upbeat series, and I'm probably overthinking it. Still, let me know what you guys think.

    That's precisely what the 3rd season is about...:eek:
    But you just put it all in perspective. Also, the themes in this season are a bit darker, with death and nostalgia jokes all over the place. Not to mention 'Noir Sam's' appearance.
    I personally think you've hit the nail on the head. I agree. :)
  • edited January 2011
    Max has an abnormal psychology, and maybe he sort of hates himself sometimes for being too ADD ridden to enjoy the finer things in life.

    This suicidal impulse is normally expressed through his completely reckless behaviour, tho.

    Max's superego was only able to take control because the rest of his mind went feral when he turned into Maxthulhu.
  • edited January 2011
    I think it's based on the Freudian theory of the id, ego and the superego. The id is the part of the mind that sends out instinctual desires and drive, the ego rationalises these desires and mediates between id and reality, the superego moralises, criticises and prohibits the drives, fantasies, feellings and actions. Max however only acts upon the instinct of the id, ignoring the superego, the superego becomes so depressed with being useless he tries to kill Max off. I think Purcell said that Max is a representation of pure id, so the superego I believe has become a semi dectacted part of Max' phsyce working to undermine his mind from with in.
  • edited January 2011
    Partially agreed. The superego is not the final decision maker or the overall person's perception of themselves however. It has no more sway than Max's ID. The superego may be disgusted with the ID's behavior while the ID finds the superego ridiculous. They meet somewhere in the middle, in Max's ego. So maybe a part of him is self loathing, but another part doesn't particularly care.
  • edited January 2011
    I also think the pure id part of Max is actually his Maxzilla self. When Max turned into his id counterpart, his superego became completely independent from id (or more like both were torn apart). Ego generally is given birth by the common points of id and superego and now that both id and superego were independent from each other, there was nothing that would construct the ego part.

    Max is close to id, but cannot be pure id since he's able to walk, talk, and even think rationally (or irrationally, even). I mean there are still some really basic stuff that superego takes some credit.
  • edited January 2011
    It occurred to me about a week ago that although we've been treating the Narrator like a separate entity who had this nefarious plot to destroy Max, he's really a part of his subconscious, not some other being. So that would imply that on some subconscious level, Max may have suicidal tendencies. Which realy disturbed me the first time I thought of it.
  • edited January 2011
    I can feel my psychology degree going to work.
  • FlyFly
    edited January 2011
    I thought of this, but I wasn't sure if it was 1) one of those 'wait, that plot point really means...' things that is unintentional or 2) one of those 'wait, that plot point really means...' things which is deliberate. Either way, a (n ignored) component of Max's psyche has given up on life and wants both itself and Max dead, and there's not really much of a way of un-darking that once you think of it. See also: Fridge Horror.

    Not going to argue for a second that this was any of the writers's intentions... but at least having a part of his brain desperately longing for the sweet oblivion of death explains Max's night terrors.


    ...Other totally meaningless, stupid thoughts: If the Narrator is Max's Superego and Max himself is the Ego, does Max's Id normally hang around in Max's brain and watch TV or harrass the Narrator or write horrible fanfiction about Flint Paper or whatever? What does he manifest as?
  • edited January 2011
    I'd just like to take this opportunity to mention that I was the one to originally post "Fridge Horror" in Max's character sheet for TV Tropes.
  • FlyFly
    edited January 2011
    Player_2 wrote: »
    I'd just like to take this opportunity to mention that I was the one to originally post "Fridge Horror" in Max's character sheet for TV Tropes.

    Creepy as this sounds, I actually guessed it was you - a lot of the stuff you post about reminds me of that description you gave in his character sheet.
  • edited January 2011
    I didn't want people thinking that I just ripped off TV Tropes when I was the one who posted it. :D
  • edited January 2011
    I do not believe that Max has repressed suicidal urges The Narrator, yes. Max, no. The Super-Ego is in fact a part of the human mind, in Freudian terms, but it is a part that is imprinted onto the mind by authority figures (I.e. Parents, teachers, tradition, and the law and it's enforcers). The Super-Ego is also created and used to control a person and check their id's drive. Since no person can create their own Super-Ego, at least not entirely, then the Super-Ego is treated more like a force controlling the person from without than from within.

    Max has been shown to be at odds with his Super-Ego, very willingly fighting it's influence. He mentions having his conscience surgically removed and advising Sam not to listen to his morals. The Narrator abhors Max because he always ignored him, especially when he attempted to make him more high-brow. In this case, the conflict between the two is not a matter of Max supressing his suicidal thoughts so much as Yge Narrator unconsciously taking on Max's traits. Max's Super-Ego has grown so neglected and desperate for attention that it identified with its aggressor, the Id that Max consciously strives to satisfy.
  • edited January 2011
    I do not believe that Max has repressed suicidal urges The Narrator, yes. Max, no. The Super-Ego is in fact a part of the human mind, in Freudian terms, but it is a part that is imprinted onto the mind by authority figures (I.e. Parents, teachers, tradition, and the law and it's enforcers). The Super-Ego is also created and used to control a person and check their id's drive. Since no person can create their own Super-Ego, at least not entirely, then the Super-Ego is treated more like a force controlling the person from without than from within.

    Max has been shown to be at odds with his Super-Ego, very willingly fighting it's influence. He mentions having his conscience surgically removed and advising Sam not to listen to his morals. The Narrator abhors Max because he always ignored him, especially when he attempted to make him more high-brow. In this case, the conflict between the two is not a matter of Max supressing his suicidal thoughts so much as Yge Narrator unconsciously taking on Max's traits. Max's Super-Ego has grown so neglected and desperate for attention that it identified with its aggressor, the Id that Max consciously strives to satisfy.

    The super ego is still a part Max's psyche, though. If max fully rejected and denied his super ego, then technically it shouldn't even be there. Max has had moments where he'd even question his own actions too...
    I also argue that the super ego is created by oneself, simply because of the fact that one decides what to do, unconsciously or consciously.

    Alas, I think we're now looking too much into it :/ But I like these kinds of conversations!
  • edited January 2011
    how did we know that max didn't kill himself anticipating that a different version of himself would show up after the failed cloning attempt
  • edited January 2011
    fvQYq.jpg
  • edited January 2011
    Thats my new wall paper now
  • edited January 2011
    I've printed it off 1000 times and made it the wallpaper in my house.
  • edited January 2011
    Was Sam suicidal too if he did the same thing before? You know when Max said he had to destroy a Giant Sam before going through the time machine again

    All of this is really deep for such a game
  • edited January 2011
    I wonder how max got the timecard he needed to show up at that spot
  • edited January 2011
    redm wrote: »
    I wonder how max got the timecard he needed to show up at that spot
    He might have gotten Bosco or Momma Bosco to forge it. After all, Bosco's scanner produced compatible cards. Or maybe he just pushed buttons randomly inside. I don't think
    the Mariachi's used a timecard to drop by
    at the end of 204.
  • edited January 2011
    redm wrote: »
    I wonder how max got the timecard he needed to show up at that spot

    Sam Jr., of course.
Sign in to comment in this discussion.