What's with all the aggression on this forum?

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Comments

  • edited March 2011
    We already got a sequel dealing with 1,000 year old plots, reinventions and utter re imaginings of key characters, deep conspiracies which tie all the originals together as tight as a Botox recipient's face. No thanks.

    If KQ2VGA is any indication of what an AGDI sequel would be like, it'd be TSL without the emo-ness.

    The only fan group I'd trust at this point is IA.

    It's actually pretty obvious that the only sequel you wouldn't utterly and totally hate is one that you made yourself as anyone who adds or changes anything in the KQ universe as you perceive it is immediately villified in your book. I hate to break it to you, but any company that does any sequel is going to add something to the series in some way, and while the quality of Telltale's take on the KQ series remains to be seen, one thing you can be totally sure of is that it will be radically different from any previous King's Quest.
  • edited March 2011
    wilco64256 wrote: »
    It's actually pretty obvious that the only sequel you wouldn't utterly and totally hate is one that you made yourself as anyone who adds or changes anything in the KQ universe as you perceive it is immediately villified in your book. I hate to break it to you, but any company that does any sequel is going to add something to the series in some way, and while the quality of Telltale's take on the KQ series remains to be seen, one thing you can be totally sure of is that it will be radically different from any previous King's Quest.

    Oh no, see, I have nothing against DIFFERENT.
    I have a certain thing against shoehorning in modern fantasy CRAP and either:

    1) Tying all the games tightly together in a ridiculous fashion (to me the games are standalone entities with only menial ties to each other. They're adventures, in much the same way that the Indiana Jones films are. References can be made to previous entries but there's not an overarching arc or conspiracy that binds everything together. I'm also not a Jane Jensen worshipper and don't think the KQ universe revolves around the Black Cloak Society)
    2) Going a totally emo/soap opera route (Valanice trying to commit suicide, her father being Manannan, etc etc. KQ is not a soap opera.)

    I liked the direction KQ7 and KQ8 took the series, and both were very different games and I'd have supported either direction.

    I'm even excited for KOS and loved IA's prequel. So, no, I'm fine with change. Just not making backstories where it doesn't even make sense to or going all emo and gooey. I also don't support going the teenage fantasy route.

    I like all sorts of fantasy stories, from the light funniness of the Hobbit and classical fairy tales, to the medium classical fantasy worlds of the Forgotten Realms, to the pulpish, eerie adventures of Conan the Cimmerian, and finally to the grimdark world of Warhammer Fantasy. So my tastes run the gamut but there's certain things I feel--given the past games--which fit in KQ and certain things that don't, couldn't, and shouldn't be tried.

    See, for all it's flaws, KQ8 is an epic, in the tradition of Malory or JRR Tolkien--Not saying it's AS GOOD as either of those--but it's in that very medieval epic vein. TSL on the other hand...is very Twilight. Hopefully you can see the difference in quality between Twilight and LOTR.
  • edited March 2011
    I have a hard time believeing Telltale will take the time to make hard references to previous KQ games, in great detail, or convoluted ways.

    Especially since it would probably be confusing to new players introduced to the series. One of the reasons why the old games were so 'self-contained' was so that new players wouldn't be required to play older games to understand what was going on.

    I'm sure Telltale will make a sophisticated story (and it'll probably be more sophisticated than most of the old KQ games), but while doing it, they'll probably avoid too many links to the older games (so that new players won't be required to play those games to understand what's going on).

    Future seasons will likely then link more directly into the Telltale season, rather than the older games (similar to the structure Telltale has done with S&M).

    Even ToMI is a pretty self-contained story, not requiring knowledge of the previous series. Even the intro makes references to Guybrush's previous adventure, and that adventure has nothing to do with EMI (but something completely unconnected to the previous series).

    If TT's KQ is a true reboot, it won't really make direct references to the previous games at all, instead reinventing the world for a new audience.
  • edited March 2011
    KOS is VERY KQ5 in tone. The story is interesting, but not convoluted, and we've been very careful to try and capture a Roberta Williams dialog style, rather than a Jane Jensen one. Narrations are in 3rd person rather than 2nd ("Graham hangs his cloak on a nearby branch." rather than "You hang your cloak on a nearby branch.") I think fans of KQ5 will very much appreciate it.
  • edited March 2011
    Valiento wrote: »
    I have a hard time believeing Telltale will take the time to make hard references to previous KQ games, in great detail, or convoluted ways.

    Especially since it would probably be confusing to new players introduced to the series. One of the reasons why the old games were so 'self-contained' was so that new players wouldn't be required to play older games to understand what was going on.

    I'm sure Telltale will make a sophisticated story (and it'll probably be more sophisticated than most of the old KQ games), but while doing it, they'll probably avoid too many links to the older games (so that new players won't be required to play those games to understand what's going on).

    Future seasons will likely then link more directly into the Telltale season, rather than the older games (similar to the structure Telltale has done with S&M).

    Even ToMI is a pretty self-contained story, not requiring knowledge of the previous series. Even the intro makes references to Guybrush's previous adventure, and that adventure has nothing to do with EMI.

    If TT's KQ is a true reboot, it won't really make direct references to the previous games at all, instead reinventing the world for a new audience.

    This.
    I'm fine with sophistication. I mean it's not my cup of tea, I prefer simple but good, but I'll accept a sophisticated story that's also straightforward and true to KQ rather than one that's utterly twisted, convoluted and soap opera-ish.

    See--Sophisticated does not have to equal melodrama.

    And a reboot which starts things afresh could be really interesting if done right. I consider, for example, the Roger Moore version of James Bond to be a reboot from the Connery version...and I love them both because they're two great takes on the same character, while keeping the same general continuity and feel.
  • edited March 2011
    See--Sophisticated does not have to equal melodrama.

    I would go so far as to call "sophistication" and "melodrama" polar opposites. Sorry, TSL.
  • edited March 2011
    Lambonius wrote: »
    KOS is VERY KQ5 in tone. The story is interesting, but not convoluted, and we've been very careful to try and capture a Roberta Williams dialog style, rather than a Jane Jensen one. Narrations are in 3rd person rather than 2nd ("Graham hangs his cloak on a nearby branch." rather than "You hang your cloak on a nearby branch.") I think fans of KQ5 will very much appreciate it.

    Excellent news, given that KQ5 is my favorite game. The little screenshots you guys have put out look great. Personally I'd love to see an original KQ game done by IA.
  • edited March 2011
    Excellent news, given that KQ5 is my favorite game. The little screenshots you guys have put out look great. Personally I'd love to see an original KQ game done by IA.

    Special care has been taken so that it slides into the continuity without disrupting, retconning, or altering any existing story elements of the series. Certainly, it's an all new story, but it is self-contained, and doesn't really affect the timelines around it, though there are allusions to other KQ games (namely KQ3) in there in places.
  • edited March 2011
    Lambonius wrote: »
    Special care has been taken so that it slides into the continuity without disrupting, retconning, or altering any existing story elements of the series. Certainly, it's an all new story, but it is self-contained, and doesn't really affect the timelines around it, though there are allusions to other KQ games (namely KQ3) in there in places.

    And that right there Ladies, Gentlemen and TSL people, is how you do good fanfiction.
  • edited March 2011
    I think the aggression and hostility we have all seen on this forum is as far from what King's Quest stands for as I can imagine...

    I suggest an exercise. Look in the magic mirror and ask which KQ character your behaviour most resembles. If the answer pleases you, give yourself a pat on the back and carry on adventuring with your head held up high! :)

    If the answer is less pleasing, there is no need to give up! Look again and ask which character you truly want to be like. Then click "Try Again", look through your inventory and consider all you have seen and heard. Good luck! ;)
  • edited March 2011
    TSL, AGDI, and IA games have all been really great... I love them and I would have gladly have paid money to have had a nice DVD copy sitting next to my other "official" games.... BUT now I am trying not to offend... but those game are really great and a lot of fun but they are NOT professional.. much of it still comes off as fan efforts while its good its NOT what I would expect from a Modern official product... For that I am glad that TTG has gotten the license... But I fully support you all and will gladly play any games you all make... I look forward to buying and playing Mage's initiation... I signed up to pre-order.
  • edited March 2011
    Irishmile wrote: »
    TSL, AGDI, and IA games have all been really great... I love them and I would have gladly have paid money to have had a nice DVD copy sitting next to my other "official" games.... BUT now I am trying not to offend... but those game are really great and a lot of fun but they are NOT professional.. much of it still comes off as fan efforts while its good its NOT what I would expect from a Modern official product... For that I am glad that TTG has gotten the license... But I fully support you all and will gladly play any games you all make... I look forward to buying and playing Mage's initiation... I signed up to pre-order.
    I don't think it's fair to compare what a person does for free in their spare time and what a person does when it's their full-time job.
  • edited March 2011
    I agree with what you just said, Rather, and I think it is a fallacy to believe that the result of any of the fan groups doing a commercial KQ title would be just like their fan games. I feel fairly safe in saying this, because my own approach to the small creative hobby projects I have done over the years has always been markedly different than to those conceived as commercial products. I think the same goes for each of the fan groups, to a greater or lesser degree.
  • edited March 2011
    I don't think it's fair to compare what a person does for free in their spare time and what a person does when it's their full-time job.

    they make a good point
  • edited March 2011
    Irishmile wrote: »
    stick around there are plenty of really great people here...

    like me. :D


    lol, but seriously. Speaking for myself, if I'm opinionated about things in this KQ forum, it's probably mostly nostalgia talking.

    I got in on these forums when ToMI was coming out, and people around here can get on edge at times, but usually we are really pretty friendly.

    Certain specific topics do seem to set people off though, like the whole Ron-Gilbert's-MI3 discussion that get so many people riled up, including myself.
  • edited March 2011
    I don't think it's fair to compare what a person does for free in their spare time and what a person does when it's their full-time job.
    At least with AGDi one can compare the quality of their commercial games, Himalaya, they did release Al Emmo. Looking at screen shots it doesn't look much different than their fan games as far as technology is concerned. It still appears to use outdated VGA-style graphics. That style is outdated and simply not commercially viable. It really only appeals to to an extreme niche of indie gamers.

    Telltales engine is modern, it looks good, and the company has proven their games sell. They sell to broad demographics. They likely have huge budgets to put towards the games as well. They update the technology with improved graphics with each game they release.
  • edited March 2011
    Al Emmo is not VGA. It's 640x480, just in case you weren't aware. It's more detailed than the remakes. The problem is people don't see 2D gaming as viable when it could be.
  • edited March 2011
    Thank you the screen shots don't adequately represent that, I stand corrected.

    I also agree with your assessment. 2-d gaming got a bit of a life on the DS, but hasn't really been marketable on PC and consoles from what I've seen.
  • edited March 2011
    Valiento wrote: »
    Thank you the screen shots don't adequately represent that, I stand corrected.

    I also agree with your assessment. 2-d gaming got a bit of a life on the DS, but hasn't really been marketable on PC and consoles from what I've seen.

    which is a shame. Some of my favorite games of the last years are in 2-D.
  • edited March 2011
    I don't think it's fair to compare what a person does for free in their spare time and what a person does when it's their full-time job.

    Yeah but that is kind of the point isn't it... I wasn't saying it was bad either.. Just a fan effort... My point was that they wanted the license and only had the games they have in their library as their argument for deserving it...
  • edited March 2011
    You want aggression? Talk to me when I don't have my coffee!!!

    I have noticed some aggression from certain members, yeah, and from some it's really just born of a passion for King's Quest. I understand Anakin's concerns, but I think he's getting a little too worked up in his head over his distaste for TSL.

    From my view, Cez has been nothing but excited and supportive of TTG's KQ. And I think people get down harshly on AGDI for being a little upset - I think it's understandable. You wouldn't be human if you weren't a little disapointed after all that you'd done with the King's Quest remakes. But even the AGD team has been supportive of TTG's effort now - I always see them talking about "supporting" the game.

    There's always going to be dissent with a property that is beloved. People will fight and argue over the things they love the most - we'll just have to try and get through it all as with as much civility as we can muster.


    Bt
  • edited March 2011
    which is a shame. Some of my favorite games of the last years are in 2-D.
    I think though there is a bit of a market for 2.5 D style games, and they have been relatively successful on various systems. Some even going as far as popup storybook look of Paper Mario. That might even fit the story book appeal of KQ in style.
  • edited March 2011
    Al Emmo is not VGA. It's 640x480, just in case you weren't aware. It's more detailed than the remakes. The problem is people don't see 2D gaming as viable when it could be.

    I'd say Al Emmo is a bad example of Himalaya's potential. I really couldn't stand that game.
  • edited March 2011
    It still looks better than any of the remakes.
  • edited March 2011
    If anything, I wouldn't say Al Emmo suffers graphically - the game looks beautiful, really. The story is only so-so, and the voice acting is really grating. I really didn't find the lead character appealing in any way, shape or form.


    Bt
  • edited March 2011
    Personally, if I had to, I'd pay money for the AGDI remakes. Especially Quest for Glory II VGA. They were that good. AGDI had the King's Quest style down, which makes me wonder of Activision's goals, to just bypass them like that. I don't want sell short Telltale, I thought TOMI was great, I just hope they'll have a better command system than just click or use inventory for this game.
  • edited March 2011
    techie775 wrote: »
    They were that good. AGDI had the King's Quest style down, which makes me wonder of Activision's goals, to just bypass them like that.
    Their goals are entirely monetarily-driven. Telltale has had financial success with what is considered a "similar" property(a legacy adventure game IP). Activision, like many of the companies that own the rights to legacy IPs in this genre, are incapable of seeing the nuances that radically separate adventure game properties. It's not about being evil, though. It's just their business and their job, and the genre and the creative side of things do not generally factor into what they're supposed to do.
  • edited March 2011
    Their goals are entirely monetarily-driven. Telltale has had financial success with what is considered a "similar" property(a legacy adventure game IP). Activision, like many of the companies that own the rights to legacy IPs in this genre, are incapable of seeing the nuances that radically separate adventure game properties. It's not about being evil, though. It's just their business and their job, and the genre and the creative side of things do not generally factor into what they're supposed to do.

    Would've made them even more money if they farmed it out to an action game company and made KQ: MoE II. Maybe they should've done that, you wouldn't be complaining nearly as much.
  • edited March 2011
    seems to me like he is just trying to express an opinion, not so much complaining because they have the license
  • edited March 2011
    Bagriin wrote: »
    seems to me like he is just trying to express an opinion, not so much complaining because they have the license

    http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=453492&postcount=6

    NO.

    Not with this company.
    Not with this direction.

    Telltale
    IS NOT
    SIERRA.

    Not even on their BEST DAY.

    They do not have the design philosophy of Sierra. They do not have the humor of Sierra. They do not have the art direction of Sierra. They have never made a Sierra-style game and they have proven time and time again that a game worthy of a license that is SO INGRAINED IN THE HISTORY OF THE ADVENTURE GENRE.

    And no, CONTRARY TO WHAT SOME PEOPLE MAY BELIEVE, LucasArts and, by extension Telltale, is not a BETTER ALTERNATIVE to Sierra that "fixed" and "evolved" the genre by removing all the bad aspects of it left in by Sierra. Sierra was a powerfully distinct entity, with its own philosophy and approach that couldn't be more different from the LucasArts or modern Telltale way of doing things. Until now I've been disappointed in Telltale, but now I'm absolutely livid. How dare they. THEY DON'T F@#$%ING DESERVE IT. THEY HAVEN'T EARNED IT. THEY CAN'T DO IT.
  • edited March 2011

    and I could completely understand his reaction after what they did with BTTF and most of The Devils Playhouse.
  • edited March 2011
    der_ketzer wrote: »
    and I could completely understand his reaction after what they did with BTTF and most of The Devils Playhouse.

    So, don't play it. Don't even bother.
    You and others should drop the facade that you have anything more than hope that this game fails. It's easily seen through.
  • edited March 2011
    So, don't play it. Don't even bother.
    You and others should drop the facade that you have anything more than hope that this game fails. It's easily seen through.

    I have to agree with Anakin on this one. Hoping that something fails before it's release is ridiculously narcasistic and promotes nothing but anger. If you don't want to support the effort, simply leave. Win/Win situation. As for the previous comment of "Look what they did to BTTF..." What have they done? The only game that was available for BTTF was an NES game that had nothing to do with the movie. TTG brought us the feel of the movie which made it enjoyable. Let's see those arguing develop a game before commenting on how much you hate anything.

    The only complaint I may have regarding BTTF is the lack of complexity. It did seem very linear, but Episode 2 made up a bit for it. I'm anticipating Episode 3 to move beyond my expectations because of the feedback provided by the community. If you don't promote what you enjoy, no one will listen and you will be left with nothing in the end.
  • edited March 2011
    I don't hope Telltale's KQ project fails, I just hope they can pull it off right and make it feel like a King's Quest game, not a Lucasarts version of a King's Quest game. But forums are meant to debate issues, not sit around and agree on everything. People are just pointing out obstacles with building a new KQ game.
  • edited March 2011
    der_ketzer wrote: »
    and I could completely understand his reaction after what they did with BTTF and most of The Devils Playhouse.
    It was a knee-jerk reaction at the announcement riding on the coattails of my reaction to Back to the Future: The "Game": Episode 2. It was expressed a tad less restrained than I care for in retrospect.
    I have to agree with Anakin on this one. Hoping that something fails before it's release is ridiculously narcissistic
    Wait, narcissistic? How? Where does ego and inflated self-worth come into the equation?
    and promotes nothing but anger. If you don't want to support the effort, simply leave. Win/Win situation.
    Sounds like a losing proposition to me. They get to hear the concerns well after the point where anything could actually be done about it? I get to be treated like some sort of outcast pariah in a community of people that I generally like, and that I've been an active part of since relatively far back in the company's history? Other people who don't like the direction this company is going get to feel alienated and like nobody thinks the same way they do? Lose/Lose/Lose/Lose/Lose/Lose/Win, more like.
    As for the previous comment of "Look what they did to BTTF..." What have they done? The only game that was available for BTTF was an NES game that had nothing to do with the movie. TTG brought us the feel of the movie which made it enjoyable.
    If someone punches you in the nuts, the next guy coming about and punching you in the gut doesn't improve the situation. And I hardly agree with it keeping the "Back to the Future feeling"(e.g., Doc's extremely limited animations and being put into situations where his animations can be forcibly limited), but that's an entirely different matter.
    Let's see those arguing develop a game before commenting on how much you hate anything.
    We should also remove user reviews on Amazon, until the users have verified that they're authors, manufacturers, engineers, video game designers, etc etc. It takes a chef to know when something's undercooked, a barista to know that your coffee is cold, a farmer to know that the fruit is rotten, and a trained maid to know that your room is a disorganized mess.

    And as an aside, why does it take professional experience to be allowed to hold a pessimistic viewpoint, but excitement and support have a substantially lower bar of entry?
    The only complaint I may have regarding BTTF is the lack of complexity. It did seem very linear, but Episode 2 made up a bit for it.
    ...

    How?
    I'm anticipating Episode 3 to move beyond my expectations because of the feedback provided by the community. If you don't promote what you enjoy, no one will listen and you will be left with nothing in the end.
    What feedback? By the game development community? Because again, you're not supposed to make comments unless you've tried developing a game before.
  • edited March 2011
    I don't think that anybody here has said anything to the effect of hoping that Telltale's game fails. Quite to the contrary, the fan groups involved in making adventure games likely want to see this game be a commercial success to support the adventure game genre period. If this game bombs then it would become more difficult for fan groups to do their own commercial products as well.
  • edited March 2011
    Hoping that something fails before it's release is ridiculously narcasistic and promotes nothing but anger. If you don't want to support the effort, simply leave. Win/Win situation.

    Nobody ever said they wanted it to fail. If they did I imagine they wouldn't even be here. In fact, I'm specifically staying around to try and make sure King's Quest is the best it can be.
    As for the previous comment of "Look what they did to BTTF..." What have they done?

    Not much. :rolleyes:
  • edited March 2011
    [post]

    Pariah? How are you a pariah?

    I admit, you have no qualms to strongly voice your opinion (especially when it's negative), but what's wrong with that? At least you have intelligent reason behind your arguement, rather than just flat out saying something is great or sucks for reasons that don't make sense (like some people.)


    Oh and btw, I totally agree with the rest of your post.
  • edited March 2011
    Chyron8472 wrote: »
    Pariah? How are you a pariah?
    You misread. I meant that if I was meant to accept that I and my viewpoint were inherently unacceptable and that, due to it, I should leave(and make everyone better off), I'd end up being essentially a pariah, separate from the normal flow of discourse(which was the point I was referring to in that section of my post).
  • edited March 2011
    Ah. Okay then.
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