Biff and Delorean
Hi everyone !
There was always two things in bttf2 the bothered me.
One is Biff and Delorean and second is Doc become some way commended by goverment (newspaper )
When Marty and Doc travel to the future, senior Biff spot the Delorean and instead of saying some trivial "WTF is this?" He KNEW that this was a Time machine, and knew how to set a clock, go 80 miles etc... Ha ! He even told his younger self that in the future Marty or Doc will go after him.
Question remains : How he knew this much about Delorean?! How he knew this "crazy, wild-eyed old man who claims to be a scientist" ?
In the 2rd part Doc shown Marty newspaper with text "Emmett Brown commended". I assume that in later years he told the world about time travels (and create a Institute of Future Technology <-- non canonical). Then we got two options:
1. Doc in second part (future) is still anonymous, he become recognizable after they alter Biff Hell Valley . In the end of third part when Marty asked Doc about the future Doc replied "we already been there" .
In this timeline (in the future) Biff dont know anything about time travels yet. Doc can build as many time machines as he want because in the future he is... First Citizen Brown (Eeevil Ending ;P )
2. Doc in second part (future) before he come back for Marty he learned that he was honored, he become recognizable person. This would explain that Biff knew what is "Delorean" . But in this time version we don't know how long Doc remained in the future ("Oh no ! Marty's son and his family are in trouble ! I must come back.. but before. Let pimp our Delorean with flying ambility and 18" rims .Yeaach") and.. How may things he know about .. THE FUTURE !!!
There always bother me what "the status" (dead, live,famous, anonymous ect.) have Doc in 2015. For 100% Emmett that goes to the future in the end of first part search for future himself. What he learned? Maybe in game it will be explained...
Sorry if i made any grammar mistakes. English is not my native language
There was always two things in bttf2 the bothered me.
One is Biff and Delorean and second is Doc become some way commended by goverment (newspaper )
When Marty and Doc travel to the future, senior Biff spot the Delorean and instead of saying some trivial "WTF is this?" He KNEW that this was a Time machine, and knew how to set a clock, go 80 miles etc... Ha ! He even told his younger self that in the future Marty or Doc will go after him.
Question remains : How he knew this much about Delorean?! How he knew this "crazy, wild-eyed old man who claims to be a scientist" ?
In the 2rd part Doc shown Marty newspaper with text "Emmett Brown commended". I assume that in later years he told the world about time travels (and create a Institute of Future Technology <-- non canonical). Then we got two options:
1. Doc in second part (future) is still anonymous, he become recognizable after they alter Biff Hell Valley . In the end of third part when Marty asked Doc about the future Doc replied "we already been there" .
In this timeline (in the future) Biff dont know anything about time travels yet. Doc can build as many time machines as he want because in the future he is... First Citizen Brown (Eeevil Ending ;P )
2. Doc in second part (future) before he come back for Marty he learned that he was honored, he become recognizable person. This would explain that Biff knew what is "Delorean" . But in this time version we don't know how long Doc remained in the future ("Oh no ! Marty's son and his family are in trouble ! I must come back.. but before. Let pimp our Delorean with flying ambility and 18" rims .Yeaach") and.. How may things he know about .. THE FUTURE !!!
There always bother me what "the status" (dead, live,famous, anonymous ect.) have Doc in 2015. For 100% Emmett that goes to the future in the end of first part search for future himself. What he learned?
Maybe in game it will be explained...Sorry if i made any grammar mistakes. English is not my native language
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Hi, zoitberg. welcome to the board.
Biff didn't know the DeLorean was a time machine until he overheard Marty and Doc discuss about going to rescue Jennifer. First, he noted he hasn't seen a flying DeLorean -one of those- in 30 years, and then it got weird and suspicious when "another" Marty Jr. came out of the Café 80's. He also overheard all the consequences of facing your other self and was smart enough to avoid telling who he really was.
Every car in 2015 looks weird, specially if they're old, hover-converted cars. Just look at the future pink Ford Edsel: It looks even weirder than the DeLorean. That's why Doc's not afraid to fly or park it in plain daylight in CourtHouse Square.
Everything in the time machine is labeled ("SET TO 88" on the digital speedometer, "DESTINATION TIME" on the Time Circuits, "TFC DRIVE CIRCUITS" on the Main Switch) and the interfase is really intuitive -A couple of trials with the keypad will give you a correct date input- and the Mr. Fusion is 2015-native technology widely available, so Biff might know how to use it.
Doc is well-known in Hill Valley as the local crackpot.
Doc shows Marty the Hill Valley Telegraph from May 23rd, 1983 from the alternate timeline, with the headline "Emmett Brown Committed" (meaning he got recluded in an insane asylum -Hill Valley Hospital-). This is a newspaper from the Past, not the Future. In the repaired timeline, the headline changes to "Emmett Brown Commended" because instead he's getting a civic award. We never knew why he got it, but it can't be for any time travel studies since he'll complete the time machine until 1985.
Doc might have a civic award, but is still as anonymous as any guy on the street. When he says they've "Already been there", he means he's already gone to the Future with his family in the Train -demostrated by the Train's hover conversion-. Biff will know about the DeLorean time machine in the Future. Nothing changes there.
Doc might be legally dead by 2015 by what we already know. He might have wanted to know what happened to himself, but "you must not know too much about your Future".
The reason old Biff (2015) checked out the Delorean is because in that timeline he had actually seen a flying Delorean 30 years ago (when Doc picks up Marty and Jennifer in 1985) He then goes in for a closer look because he remembers how weird it was back then in 1985 to see a flying Delorean. He follows Doc and Marty and overhears them talking about it being a time machine. That's how he knows to warn his younger self about Doc and Marty potentially using the time machine to recover the alamanac.
something like that anyway
Like many sci fi movies there are plenty of holes you can pluck. For example, why did Biff return the time machine to Doc and Marty? I would have thought he would return it in a different place or time where they couldn't find it and he wouldn't have to worry about Marty and Doc coming after him. Also, I don't understand how old Biff would not return to the the hell Hill Valley of 2015. Shouldn't the world have changed for Doc and Marty after biff jacked the time machine?
Prior to mr. fusion, the delorean needed plutonium for each time travel. It may be possible that with mr fusion, the delorean can time travel multimate times for each time travel. I'd assume that it either had enough to time travel already or perhaps Biff new what mr. fusion was and how to use it. I dont think it is labelled that the delorean must go 88 mph but maybe biff just figured it has to go fast to time travel and eventually got it to 88 mph.
I'm not sure if old biff is smart enough to figure this out but if he did not return the delorean to doc and marty, it would cause a paradox or at least prevent him to get rich; Doc and Marty go to to get Jennifer from her future home and go to the future in the first place to due to their future children. If Marty and Jennifer got stranded in the future, they wouldnt have children there and thus doc would never bring them there in the first place for biff to steal the time machine.
Another potential is that Biff started having his 'symptoms' that we see while in 1955 and that is why he goes back to the future.
Biff specifically remarks to himself "doc brown invented a time machine" and pieces together that one of the 2 "Marty Jrs" he sees is Marty Sr. from the past so he figures when they find out the timeline has changed, they'd come asking him about the almanac.
Now one thing I've wondered; Biff sees the delorean fly and 'disappear' in 1985, the next day he sees marty (after returning from 1885), why wouldnt he ask him what on earth happened? Didn't they wonder where marty went to without his truck? Not sure how those 2 timelines would play out in their eyes as Marty leaves 1985 around 11 am on the 26th, returns to the alternate timeline at 9 AM on the 26th, leaves around 2 AM on the 27th and returns at 11 AM on the 27th.
As for Biff coming back to 2015A, he DID. We didn't see anything change for Marty and Doc because, presumably, Hilldale is either unaffected, or because Biff is apparently dead in 2015A, the city has gotten back to normal. Marty and Doc didn't stay at the McFly house, so they didn't see that the family probably faded away as they probably wouldn't be living there.
As for Biff being curious about the flying DeLorean, he might not have known Marty was in it.
I'd just like to know why he apparently walks right past it in the game, since Marty left the car unlocked. I swear, Marty doesn't realize how valuable that car is.
I thought Mr. Fussion was essentially a car battery? Would it have enough juice for the required 1.21 gigawatts. By the way, I thought it interesting how the time machine still supposedly ran on gas in part 3, even though Doc says "I need fuel" when he puts trash in it at the end of part 1.
It would create a paradox if Marty and Doc were stuck in 2015, though it's hard to say if Biff would know that. Does this mean the Alamac would have disappeared back in 1955 had Doc and Marty been stranded in 2015?
But Doc says in 1985 that they can't go back to 2015 because it was altered changing the events that happened in 2015 (If I remember correctly). So I'm assuming it would be altered. BTW, wouldn't that create a paradox though if the events that happened in 2015 with Doc and Marty were altered?
Nobody knows what would happen if a paradox happens. Or maybe it does as we've seen instances of time travel with the direct intent on changing the timeline (doc and marty going to 2015 in part II, biff going to 1955 and doc and marty going to 1955).
And mr fusion is a replacement for plutonium for the time circuits, theres plenty of instances showing this; as mentioned the plutonium is only enough to power one time travel. But we never see plutonium put in the delorean before the trip to 2015, biff wouldnt be able to get a hold of plutonium in 1955 to get home, and marty wouldnt be able to get plutonium in 1955 to get to 1885 or 1885 to get home.
It's assumed what doc means at the start of part I is that the time circuits are electrical. In part 3 he does state that the car itself runs on gasoline and prior to sending him back to 1885, 1955 doc does tell marty he put fresh gas in the tank.
I guess it is possible Mr. Fushion could generate enough power though it is hard to say.
I always thought that Mr. Fushion was intended to replace gas and then its function was changed in the third movie. When Doc referred to the trash as fuel I thought it was clear he meant it was like gas. That's why Doc had to explain it to Marty in part 3.
Mr. Fusion is a replacement for the plutonium, causing the nuclear reaction that generates the 1.21 gigawatts (hence the name "fusion"). Marty thought it also replaced the gas, but he was wrong.
That does not make sense for me. Actually only the time machine and it's passenger(s) are constants. So when Marty in BTTF I changed George's and Lorraine's past and returns to 1985 in the end, the difference to the 1985 before the time travel only wonders Marty: because he is/was from the "original" timeline where George was a chicken.
But of course for Doc, Einstein, George, Lorraine, Dave, Linda, Jennifer and everyone else on earth it was their ONLY reality they know.
So when Biff steals the Delorean, changes the past he should return to a 2015 which followed the altered timeline with Hell Valley which obviously never led to a 1985 where Doc invented the time machine and a completely different future.
But this should have no effect on either the Delorean or old Biff himself: because they are from "the original 2015".
And even IF Doc invented the time machine it should be a Doc and a Marty which know Hell Valley because it's their reality. Just old Biff could be curious about it because he is actually not from that timeline.
One of the theories is that the Ripple Effect only affects time travelling people (and stuff) when their existence is prevented. Just as in II, where 2015 ripples to 2015A around Doc, Marty, Jennifer and Einstein (the DeLorean probably exist because every piece is already designed), because they're from a previous moment in the Continuum, and 1955 ripples to 1955B when Doc is struck by lightning; and like in Ep. 2, where Doc and Einstein dissapear because they're too old to be living in this timeline.
exactly! :d
There is no evidince it is not an alternate 2015 in fact the deleted scene is evidence that it IS. All that we see is hilldale.
Plus there was no mention in the movies about people suddenly gaining memories of a different timeline all of a sudden. So Marty and Doc in 2015 would still be oblivious the same way Doc was oblivious in part III when Marty comes back to 1855 to rescue him. If their memories and stuff changed, he should've already known Marty was coming to rescue him.
http://www.icollector.com/images/1202/18549/18549_0071_1_lg.jpg
I messed up with the date by a day
I just spent ten minutes reading the articles. Time well spent.
What happens to him at the end of that? Did they put him in jail? lol
See for yourself.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmIHlAuE2Wo&feature=related
If you're too lazy to actually watch the video, all they do is take Biff away. It's left ambiguous as to what happens to him.
I'm not really buying this. I think it was originally meant to be a gas alternative and it's function was changed in part 3. When Doc says he needs fuel I think it was meant as a replacement for gas but whatever.
Are you talking about the scene where old Biff fades away? How is that evidence that it's an alternate time line?
Because it implies that biff is not alive in the alternate 2015.
I thought this too, but why would he be dead? Was he killed at some point during the second movie? I haven't seen it in a long time.
The background behind that deleted scene, according to Gale, was that Lorraine would shoot him in the 90s. It was cut out because it was "too complicated for the average audience".
It's not stated what happens but Biff would be 78 in 2015 so quite possible that he doesnt live that long.
If it is an alternate 2015 then Doc and Marty should be alternates too!
Just because we as the movie spectators stayed at 2015 and didn't follow Biff's trip to 1955 doesn't mean that suddenly there are different rules in the time-travel-theory which BTTF 1 has set up.
I mean Marty altered 1955 in the first movie and all people that "stayed" in 1985 and did not time-travel were of course affected by Marty's intervention. As the whole 1985 setting was.
But now in BTTF II when Biff does exactly the same Marty and Doc curiously remain the same and only the surroundings changed? Thats weird.
So if 2015 changed, Doc and Marty should too.
To me, I've always thought of as a ripple effect in two parts. Biff comes back to 2015 and he doesn't disappear right away because of the time ripple effect as mentioned on the Back to the Future DVD. The future immediately changes around Doc, Marty and Jennifer, but they don't notice it since they're outside the former McFly residence at that point. The way I see it, the reason Doc, Marty, and Jennifer don't change even though their surroundings do is because time reacts differently to someone who has traveled outside their own timeline. The ripple effect takes longer to effect Marty, Doc, and Jennifer because they're displaced from their original timeline.
I know that was just a typo and you meant biff comes back to 2015
and yes it could be that it wouldnt make sense for doc and marty to be in 2015 and still remember the alternate timeline since they likely dont time travel in the alternate timeline. Or simply they got out before the ripple effect took place. This is the only instance in the trilogy which takes place immediately after the timeline changes; in part I marty leaves about a half hour after the last ripple (getting lorraine and george back together and george punching out biff) and doesnt get to see the effects til morning. When they go back to 1955 the second time, it's a while before they go back to the present and the only change in 1885 is eastwood ravine. In part II we do see the matchbook, marty's newspaper, and doc newspapers all change at different times despite one event (burning the almanac) causing all the effects; they do all change seconds from each other but still not at the same time meaning the ripple effect is not instant.
The thing is that Doc explains it in the first movie.
Marty:Uh, does it like run on regular unleaded gasoline?
Doc: Unfortunately no, it requires something with a little more kick. Plutonium!
Marty: Uh, Plutonium. Wait a minute, are telling me that this sucker is nuclear?!
Doc: Hey, hey! Keep rolling, keep rolling. No no no no no no. This sucker's electrical, but I need a nuclear reaction to generate the 1.21 Jigawatts of electricity I need.
Now, if the entire car and time machine ran only on plutonium, then the car wouldn't have been able to drive when it was in 1955 and heading towards the lightning strike without its plutonium.
The Mr. Fusion was just replacing the nuclear reactor for the electrical part for time travel, and likely also the flight capabilities.
So when Doc told Marty that he needed fuel, he meant only for the Mr. Fusion reactor, and not that the car completely ran on the Mr. Fusion.
I'm not an engineer, but if Mr. Fushion supposedly has enough juice to power the 1.21 gw, then whouldn't it be more than enough power for the car to run on? Why not have the car entirely run on Mr. Fushion?
BTW, is Mr. Fushion mainly a car part? Because it doesn't show on the other cars in the future, if I remember right.
BTW, if Biff were dead earlier than 2015, that would also create a time paradox since the events that got Biff the Alamanac would not have happened.
Biff should not have returned the car. Hell, he should have stayed in an earlier era and make all those bets himself. lol
As mentioned in Back to the Future Part III, the DeLorean uses an internal combustion engine. An internal combustion engine combines fuel with air to create force. Electricity wouldn't work at all, and Doc doesn't have the time to create an alternative.
If it isn't an invention created by Doc himself, Mr. Fusion most likely isn't a car part, since nuclear fusion wouldn't be required for anything a car would need to operate.
Yes, I definitely meant 2015 not 1985.
Plus Marty is the last of his siblings to disappear in the photograph in the first movie, which could be explained either by simply the fact that he was the last to be born so the ripple would reach him last, or that since he's traveled through time the timeline change is catching up to him slower than it did the rest of his siblings.
I think your first guess makes the most sense. Dave is older than Linda which is probably why Dave starts fading before Linda does. But your second guess holds water as well as marty fades in a different manner; Dave and Linda have different body parts fade out in sequence whereas marty's entire body fades.
I'm not sure what the thought process for putting Mr. Fusion at the end of part 1 was (remember no sequels planned at this point). Probably so that doc wouldnt have to put on a radiation suit to put the plutonium in just for what they thought would be a gag. Or possibly due to the humour of seeing him go through the trash. But part 2 and 3 were conceived at the same time. So I'm sure they had already considered a problem to have them stuck in 1885. Actually one of the first drafts of the second film was to have Mr. Fusion damaged in the hoverboard chase and have Marty and doc stuck in 2015 similar to part I with the plot to drive the delorean into the grand canyon to get back to the present.
But anyhow it's clearly shown in the first film that the plutonium needs to be put in for each time travel. Mr. Fusion makes this easier and may possibly allow for multiple time travel without needing to be filled. I'm sure zemeckis and gale realized that if plutonium was not accessible in 1955 the first time around, it certainly would not be a second time around and definitely not in 1885.
I would think if he can get trash to generate that much power he could it to run the car. He was able to get it to fly. And besides, he had all the time he needed, he had a time machine.
Besides, have you seen an entirely electric car? Unless they've made some improvements on them, getting one up to 88 mph could be extremely difficult, if even possible.