How would doc know what the eternal present is?
And notice what 'erases' that future? An event which only gets changed due to TIME TRAVEL. The 2015 we see is the future of Marty without time travel. It's a future where marty let's name calling get to him. That future gets changed as evidenced with the newspaper changing but until time travel changes it, it is the exact same (doc has obviously traveled around 2015 and noticed everything stayed the same until Marty intervened)
In that future we saw, Marty did not go to 1885 and nearly get killed by Buford over name calling (not to mention if he ignored biffs name calling in 1955, Doc probably wouldn't have been sent to 1885 in the first place).
True.
That said, the 'future isn't written' for ANYONE...but what is the future for one person is the past for someone else. So what ISN'T written for one person IS written for someone else. THAT is essentially the paradox of time travel, from which most others stem.
For 17 year old Marty, from October 26th 1985, the events of October 27th 1985 AREN'T written because they're in the future. For 47 year old Marty, from October 21st 2015, the events of October 27th 1985 ARE written because they're in the past.
Actually, this becomes very interesting when one considers 1955 Doc in BTTF3. For him, the future isn't written...yet, his future self is already very much part of his PAST (true, it hasn't affected him in any way-but whatever 1985 Doc did in 1885 is set in stone from his POV). We know that 1955 Doc can affect 1985 (as we see from the bulletproof vest in BTTF1), but can he affect 1885? (apparently not) Despite the fact that in both cases, his FUTURE self is involved.
That said, the 'future isn't written' for ANYONE...but what is the future for one person is the past for someone else. So what ISN'T written for one person IS written for someone else. THAT is essentially the paradox of time travel, from which most others stem.
For 17 year old Marty, from October 26th 1985, the events of October 27th 1985 AREN'T written because they're in the future. For 47 year old Marty, from October 21st 2015, the events of October 27th 1985 ARE written because they're in the past.
Actually, this becomes very interesting when one considers 1955 Doc in BTTF3. For him, the future isn't written...yet, his future self is already very much part of his PAST (true, it hasn't affected him in any way-but whatever 1985 Doc did in 1885 is set in stone from his POV). We know that 1955 Doc can affect 1985 (as we see from the bulletproof vest in BTTF1), but can he affect 1885? (apparently not) Despite the fact that in both cases, his FUTURE self is involved.
I think this is specifically why Doc specifically tells Marty 'dont touch anything, dont look at anything, try not to look at anyone etc' when in 2015 whereas in 1955 and 1885 it's more "don't purposely change the future"; because marty IS part of the future in 2015 and thus any extra knowledge he gets could change those events and cause the reality to get changed or even a paradox. For instance even had the almanac not been part of the equation in 2015, Marty found out the cubs swept the world series that year. He knows that he lives in hilldale, goldie wilson Jr becomes mayor.
It would be interesting to travel to a point between 1956 and 1984 and ask Doc what he knew; he knows he's destined to build a time machine that marty will accidently use to go back to 1955, does he know he'll eventually visit the 21st century, return to 1955 and be struck by lightning and sent to 1885? You'd think this would change his aspirations because he'd also know his oler self will want the time machine he works on all his life destroyed. Though you could argue that because Marty successfully saves Emmet from dying in 1885, that changes the events of 1955 (no tombstomb) and thus this affects docs memory.
I think this is specifically why Doc specifically tells Marty 'dont touch anything, dont look at anything, try not to look at anyone etc' when in 2015 whereas in 1955 and 1885 it's more "don't purposely change the future"; because marty IS part of the future in 2015 and thus any extra knowledge he gets could change those events and cause the reality to get changed or even a paradox. For instance even had the almanac not been part of the equation in 2015, Marty found out the cubs swept the world series that year. He knows that he lives in hilldale, goldie wilson Jr becomes mayor.
You're right. Then again, Doc's motives ARE kinda difficult to decipher in this case. After all, he and Marty are in the future for the very purpose of changing it. Doc believes that the future isn't written i.e. it is changeable. So his concern over Marty learning things which will change his future is overblown...what little Marty learns is (hypothetically) enough for him to COMPLETELY alter 2015.
Doc's belief in circular paradoxes is also hard to fathom, given that his plan to save Marty Jr. WOULD essentially create a paradox in the strictest sense.
It would be interesting to travel to a point between 1956 and 1984 and ask Doc what he knew; he knows he's destined to build a time machine that marty will accidently use to go back to 1955, does he know he'll eventually visit the 21st century, return to 1955 and be struck by lightning and sent to 1885? You'd think this would change his aspirations because he'd also know his oler self will want the time machine he works on all his life destroyed. Though you could argue that because Marty successfully saves Emmet from dying in 1885, that changes the events of 1955 (no tombstomb) and thus this affects docs memory.
I think in the final timeline, if you travel between 1956 and 1984, the Doc you meet will remember Marty's original trip to 1955. He will have the letter warning him about the Libyans as testament to that. He will also remember Marty's second trip to 1955, discovering that he is destined to travel to the 21st century, then back to 1955, and get zapped back to 1885. He will probably have the letters his older self wrote about the burial place of the Delorean as testament to that. However, he WON'T remember seeing a tombstone of his future self...instead, he will probably recall Marty showing him the photo of Marty and Doc standing by the new Clock Tower in 1885, which he found in the library, and concluding that Marty needed to be sent back to 1885 to rescue his future self.
Your point about Doc's motivation possibly suffering is true...then again, '55 Doc does WANT to experiance time travel for himself, and he figures that whatever goes wrong later, he still wants the chance to do it. Secondly, he likely believes that if he DOESN'T build the time machine, he will cause a major paradox that will unravel space-time. Lastly, Doc in the final timeline, KNOWS that when he ends up back in 1885, Marty WILL return to rescue him and safely return him to 1985.
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True.
That said, the 'future isn't written' for ANYONE...but what is the future for one person is the past for someone else. So what ISN'T written for one person IS written for someone else. THAT is essentially the paradox of time travel, from which most others stem.
For 17 year old Marty, from October 26th 1985, the events of October 27th 1985 AREN'T written because they're in the future. For 47 year old Marty, from October 21st 2015, the events of October 27th 1985 ARE written because they're in the past.
Actually, this becomes very interesting when one considers 1955 Doc in BTTF3. For him, the future isn't written...yet, his future self is already very much part of his PAST (true, it hasn't affected him in any way-but whatever 1985 Doc did in 1885 is set in stone from his POV). We know that 1955 Doc can affect 1985 (as we see from the bulletproof vest in BTTF1), but can he affect 1885? (apparently not) Despite the fact that in both cases, his FUTURE self is involved.
I think this is specifically why Doc specifically tells Marty 'dont touch anything, dont look at anything, try not to look at anyone etc' when in 2015 whereas in 1955 and 1885 it's more "don't purposely change the future"; because marty IS part of the future in 2015 and thus any extra knowledge he gets could change those events and cause the reality to get changed or even a paradox. For instance even had the almanac not been part of the equation in 2015, Marty found out the cubs swept the world series that year. He knows that he lives in hilldale, goldie wilson Jr becomes mayor.
It would be interesting to travel to a point between 1956 and 1984 and ask Doc what he knew; he knows he's destined to build a time machine that marty will accidently use to go back to 1955, does he know he'll eventually visit the 21st century, return to 1955 and be struck by lightning and sent to 1885? You'd think this would change his aspirations because he'd also know his oler self will want the time machine he works on all his life destroyed. Though you could argue that because Marty successfully saves Emmet from dying in 1885, that changes the events of 1955 (no tombstomb) and thus this affects docs memory.
You're right. Then again, Doc's motives ARE kinda difficult to decipher in this case. After all, he and Marty are in the future for the very purpose of changing it. Doc believes that the future isn't written i.e. it is changeable. So his concern over Marty learning things which will change his future is overblown...what little Marty learns is (hypothetically) enough for him to COMPLETELY alter 2015.
Doc's belief in circular paradoxes is also hard to fathom, given that his plan to save Marty Jr. WOULD essentially create a paradox in the strictest sense.
I think in the final timeline, if you travel between 1956 and 1984, the Doc you meet will remember Marty's original trip to 1955. He will have the letter warning him about the Libyans as testament to that. He will also remember Marty's second trip to 1955, discovering that he is destined to travel to the 21st century, then back to 1955, and get zapped back to 1885. He will probably have the letters his older self wrote about the burial place of the Delorean as testament to that. However, he WON'T remember seeing a tombstone of his future self...instead, he will probably recall Marty showing him the photo of Marty and Doc standing by the new Clock Tower in 1885, which he found in the library, and concluding that Marty needed to be sent back to 1885 to rescue his future self.
Your point about Doc's motivation possibly suffering is true...then again, '55 Doc does WANT to experiance time travel for himself, and he figures that whatever goes wrong later, he still wants the chance to do it. Secondly, he likely believes that if he DOESN'T build the time machine, he will cause a major paradox that will unravel space-time. Lastly, Doc in the final timeline, KNOWS that when he ends up back in 1885, Marty WILL return to rescue him and safely return him to 1985.