Why episode 6 is my least favorite episode this season

edited March 2008 in Sam & Max
(THIS ENTIRE POST IS A SPOILER)

Hi,

Sorry for spoiling the fun, but I just wanted to point out the reasons that made me like this episode a bit less than the rest:

1) I didn't like being able to USE max as a hint system. This is because (a) I think it's weird to be able to ask Max "Can you give me a hint?" - makes you feel like you're playing a game. It made me feel like Max wasn't really another character but rather just an object meant to give you hints (by the way, this also disturbed me in CSI). (b) I'm a very weak person, and when there's a hint system around, I wound up using it and hating myself afterwards.
Also, I liked the fact that Max had different dialog options based on the location, and it's too bad he stopped having those.

2) I think some of the puzzles this time were a bit unfair (i.e, I was stuck a few times, and when I accidently solved the puzzle I didn't bang my head and said - how didn't I think of that!?)

Specifically:

I) the antenna has been there forever and there was no reason to suspect we could take it this time.

II) There was nothing that hinted that we should make Leonard throw up. When Sam used the throwing up thingy on most characters, he just said "I don't want to see him throw up", and there was just no reason to suspect Leonard had that deed inside him (unless I missed something)

3) Just a tiny grump - in this episode, for some reason, I got kinda annoyed with getting stuck into Max while walking (the wheeeee thing). Last episodes it was cute, but this time for some reason Max just kept getting in my way all the time.

Just wanted to comment that despite those three things, the episode was still pretty good, and the fact that it's my least favorite just goes to show how great this season was :D
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Comments

  • JakeJake Telltale Alumni
    edited May 2007
    I think the Max hints thing is tough to balance. Max has been a sort of surface-level-hint system for the entire season, but as indicated by the dozens of people posting saying "waah how come there are no hints?!" a lot of people didn't understand that. Putting all of that dialog beneath a line saying "need a hint," instead of just having it at the top of the dialog tree, was, I imagine, an effort to clue people in to what's going on. I personally wasn't too excited to see that slightly fourth-wall-breaking "Hey Max I need a hint" line, but I think it was put there with good reason / good intentions.

    Also, if you click on Leonard, Sam asks if Max has been feeding Leonard, and Max said he has, and most recently fed him the deed to the USA. I think that dialog only plays a couple times, though. :)
  • edited May 2007
    Jake wrote: »
    Also, if you click on Leonard, Sam asks if Max has been feeding Leonard, and Max said he has, and most recently fed him the deed to the USA. I think that dialog only plays a couple times, though. :)

    Weird, I haven't heard that ine... maybe it only plays before Max gets separated? When I clicked Leonard, Sam asked Max if he has been feeding Leonard, and max just replied "Yes"...

    Actually, I knew I was looking for the money, and I had a feeling I had to get it out of the cash register on the moon, so I spent most of the time around there trying to draw my gun on the moleman :)
  • edited May 2007
    Well, actually, Max has always given out hints. But this is the first episode to make it so obvious. :P The difficulty is hard to balance, because no matter how easy or hard it is, people are going to always have something they don't like about it. Just about every review has complained of easy puzzles. Personally I think Episode 6 was about as close to balance as it's ever going to get.
  • edited May 2007
    I thought the logic in the puzzle was more flawed than in the other episodes. Or let me put it in another way, it was completly logic, but it was logical from the point of view of sam & max.
    make a guy in the closet throw up? sure, why not? it must do something good, sounds like fun. Make the crazy rabbit eat a rat? sure, that's logical.
    The logic was similar to the logic in hit the road. Not really illogic, but a sense of logic one can only really understand if one forgets ones sanity(pass through the gate of dementia), and completly enter the world of sam & max.
  • edited May 2007
    matan wrote: »
    3) Just a tiny grump - in this episode, for some reason, I got kinda annoyed with getting stuck into Max while walking (the wheeeee thing). Last episodes it was cute, but this time for some reason Max just kept getting in my way all the time.
    In earlier episodes, when Sam smacked Max out of his way, he would keep walking. Now he stops and you have to click again.
  • edited May 2007
    *SPOILERS*

    I got stuck on the antenna and lunar lander leg cutting.

    I have to say, I'm pretty sure one of the episodes had you take the antenna. Also, the lander door clearly had a little knob/pull thing, an open window, and said "the keys are stuck inside" when you try to open it. Kind of obvious.

    The deed thing was very clear. "I fed him the deed to the united states." Then you get something that makes people throw up. I walked around trying to get everyone to throw up =p

    The only thing I felt was really hard to figure out was the lunar lander. I'm supposed to cut a metal leg a regular saw? Kind of weird.
  • edited May 2007
    I'll just add my grievances to this thread instead of posting a new one. I actually liked this episode (the humor was fun), but a few things annoyed me:

    - The game seems to eat up memory. After a few hours of playing the process was eating 550mb of memory. That's all fine and dandy if it really needs it, but to me that looked like a memory leak. (didn't bother to debug it though; I get to do that enough at work)

    - When you're doing an action (like clicking something so Sam starts walking) and Max gets in the way (and gets thrown away), the action is cancelled. This happened dozens of times and was a bit irritating. Especially as the inventory times a while to get open, find the item, then find the place to click it to.

    - For some reason , on my laptop, when alt-tabbing and then coming back, the framerate gets jerky (like 15 frames smooth, then a 3 frame skip, repeat). The only way to fix this was to save, quit and restart.

    - Minor thing, but was the autosave tuned to happen less frequently? I actually became used to the camera sound once I entered the streets. :)

    - Minor, but I found Max getting in the way of an object (like I've found an intresting object in the room and go pick up an inventory item to try it on, then Max walks to the front just in time and I misclick).

    - (every episode) I'm missing the double click feature of some adventure games so the characters would run faster (or teleport, but the running would be better). Since adventure games consist mostly of moving and clicking, and the moving isn't that exciting, this would be a welcome addition.

    (and I had problems
    with the Leonard too (didn't know he had eaten the deed until I accidentally clicked everything on everything and it worked)
    , but that was the only thing)

    Most of these are small functional issues and not game killers. But it's the polish that makes it.. :p
  • edited May 2007
    I didn't have problems with
    Leonard and the deed
    , but like the others, I couldn't figure out how to
    get the keys out of the Lunar Lander. I guess the coat-hanger trick just isn't that well-known.
  • edited May 2007
    XMunkki wrote: »
    But it's the polish that makes it.. :p

    silly me, and I thought it was the americans who makes it :) the polish did a great job on Jack Orlando, though, if I remember correctly :D
  • EmilyEmily Telltale Alumni
    edited May 2007
    A question for those who don't like hints - would you feel better about it if you could turn them off? (i.e. You uncheck "hints" on the option screen and if it's not checked, the "I could use a hint" dialogue line isn't visible to you.)

    About Leonard - Max stops saying the thing about the deed after he's been separated. We realized it too late to fix it.
  • edited May 2007
    I think it would help ppl if that line about the deed was there after he got seperated. I heard the line when I first started the game; I always reclick the items to hear the new dialoge, but I overlooked the line as a joke. I also forgot the
    deed
    by the time I was at the end of the game, where it was required.

    The "use a hint" option didn't bother me, though I notice it was less subtle in previous games; it was always there, but in this ep, it was direct and not covered up with something like: "Max, what do you think about...."
    The antenna thing wasn't too much of a problem and was quite clever. I realize it was used to open the lander once I hover my mouse over the antenna to see if it is an item to pick up. After that, l knew what it was use for.

    Originally, I thought there was some telekinesis artifact that lets you open the door from the outside.

    as for using hints online, I only used it in getting the money (I overlooked the deed as a joke) and cutting the lunar landing (I didn't feel like figuring it out since I had to write a paper)

    I was just bugged about the bug of trying to read the sign next to the lunar lander. I kept reclickin the damn thing, hoping Sam would read it.

    Overall, I thought the game ending was anit-climatic, mainly in the motivating of Bliss. I expected a better explanation of his schemes.
  • edited May 2007
    I prefer the way the hints worked before... :P
    And I also enjoyed when you had different dialogs at specific location, instead of that random stuff. But I guess that you can’t please everyone…

    Other than that, great episode guys!
  • edited May 2007
    fajerkaos wrote: »
    I prefer the way the hints worked before... :P
    And I also enjoyed when you had different dialogs at specific location, instead of that random stuff. But I guess that you can’t please everyone…
    ,

    I miss those too, but at least it makes it less stressful for me to click on the damn rabbit to hear something new in every new location.
  • edited May 2007
    Emily wrote: »
    A question for those who don't like hints - would you feel better about it if you could turn them off? (i.e. You uncheck "hints" on the option screen and if it's not checked, the "I could use a hint" dialogue line isn't visible to you.)

    If you mean the Bone way, then no.. As on the Cow race, I was stuck for a long time and was desperate for a hint system. Of course, the game DOES have a hint system but I had disabled it because I hated the way the game nagged me on and on for every single thing. Like when I see a new action icon, I get a full screen interruption explaining what the eye icon might possibly mean (which, after playing the 1st through, was obvious).

    Also I don't like the fact the game is less of a game because I choose so. Since even the "I need a hint" things gave entertaining answers, I found myself unable NOT to click on them (and for the same reason I would not be able to disable it). I think what you really need, is a rewording. It's the "I need a hint" phrase that turns most people off. They feel inferior clicking such a link (as it "hints" to the player that they are not able to solve it without the help of the game). So some more subtle ways of saying the same thing would work a little bit better. Some suggestion have already been presented here in the forums, such as "Hey, are we stuck or what?" or some other ways like asking for Maxs observations about something (this would be an intresting mechanic in itself, as everyone is intrested in Maxs opinions about stuff, and if some of them happen to be of the helping kind, I don't think people would mind so much).
  • edited May 2007
    I overlooked the deed thing as a joke at first too, but in the end it made me giggle. Other than that... nope... didn't have too much of an issue with a lot of the puzzles. Max DID keep getting in the way though.. I was like "damnit max move your fat head!"

    The hint thing, I prefered the old way of doing it with sam whining about not being able to do something.. it was a little more subtle I feel.. but that's about my only problem.
  • edited May 2007
    If the episode had allowed me to make everyone puke, I would have figured the Leonard puzzle out quite quickly. Being that everything in the closet have been novelties in the past few episodes, it didn't really cross my mind until I asked max. I do think it would have added to the episode had I been able to make EVERYONE puke.
    (especially superball.)

    excellent episode though
  • edited May 2007
    Am I the only person that only had a problem
    getting the spoon out of the snow globe
    ? That is the only one I had to leave the game, and then eventually go online for... I found no clues leading me to think of what ended up being the solution.

    Anywho, I think the hint system worked well enough. While I always waited until after I figured out the puzzle on my own to use it, I thought the way Max responded was most of the time clever and appropriate. However, I am not sure if this is the type of hint system I want in future games.
  • edited May 2007
    matan wrote: »
    1) I didn't like being able to USE max as a hint system. This is because (a) I think it's weird to be able to ask Max "Can you give me a hint?" - makes you feel like you're playing a game. It made me feel like Max wasn't really another character but rather just an object meant to give you hints (by the way, this also disturbed me in CSI). (b) I'm a very weak person, and when there's a hint system around, I wound up using it and hating myself afterwards.
    Also, I liked the fact that Max had different dialog options based on the location, and it's too bad he stopped having those.
    Agree wholeheartedly with this. I did use the hints and didn't find them helpful TBH. Each time what the hint gave me was already what I had in mind. Helpful in making sure my lateral thinking was on track but I did find it a little condescending. Perhaps if the hints had been more obscure? Don't know what to make of it really but I did prefer the variable dialogs dependent on Max's location as opposed to the hints.
    2) I think some of the puzzles this time were a bit unfair (i.e, I was stuck a few times, and when I accidently solved the puzzle I didn't bang my head and said - how didn't I think of that!?)

    Specifically:

    I) the antenna has been there forever and there was no reason to suspect we could take it this time.
    This was the one thing that foxed me :( If I'd wandered around enough I probably would have clocked it but something didn't smell right about the fact that you haven't always been able to interact with the coat hanger. I had to refer to Dangermouse's hint thread to overcome this one :(
    II) There was nothing that hinted that we should make Leonard throw up. When Sam used the throwing up thingy on most characters, he just said "I don't want to see him throw up", and there was just no reason to suspect Leonard had that deed inside him (unless I missed something)
    Didn't have a problem with this and it was one of the times when I actually did pat myself on the back for overcoming the obstacle :)
    3) Just a tiny grump - in this episode, for some reason, I got kinda annoyed with getting stuck into Max while walking (the wheeeee thing). Last episodes it was cute, but this time for some reason Max just kept getting in my way all the time.
    I noticed this too. I think the other contributor to this thread is right when they say that Sam is stopped in his tracks when usually he would have carried on walking to his destination.
    Just wanted to comment that despite those three things, the episode was still pretty good, and the fact that it's my least favorite just goes to show how great this season was :D
    I liked it too. Especially the different persona's of Max :D
    dunkpork wrote: »
    The only thing I felt was really hard to figure out was the lunar lander. I'm supposed to cut a metal leg a regular saw? Kind of weird.
    Didn't have a problem with this. After 3 rounds of torture I kind of guessed sabotage was the way forward ;)
  • edited May 2007
    I didn't see the deed line earlier, so was totally stuck on this for a while... until Max' hint of him being sure there was something valuable "lying around" in the office.

    Still, though, it's a little beside the point. The puzzle wasn't really to get the deed. It was to get Max' tail back. It's not immediately obvious, but you can put 2 and 2 together and deduce that you need the earthquake device to shift blue Max. Then you need a 100 trillion dollars to buy it. There was (as far as I could see) absolutely no clue given how to get that kind of money. Even if you saw the line about the deed, why would you think someone would pay you 100 trillion dollars for it? Why would Sybil have that kind of money as the "queen of Canada"? Sure, you can stumble upon the individual elements and find yourself solving the puzzle in the end, but "deducing" the solutions seemed much difficult in this episode than any of the others.

    And I do like Max' hint system, but it felt like they were required listening to solve the puzzles this time rather than optional advice.
  • edited May 2007
    I wasn't a fan of the built-in hint system, and I'm not sure if having a "hints" in the option window would fix it. Adventure games are generally hard and getting stuck once in a while is a part of the fun. I want it to be difficult and a last resort for me to go and get a hint. For the most part Telltale has been doing a good job of making the puzzles logical,
    except maybe feeding a rat to the gluttonous Max because he "likes to grab onto things and you could grab onto the stomach and pull it out that way."
    Putting blatant hints in a game is like explaining why your joke is funny after you told it, if its a good joke you shouldn't have to, if its a good puzzle you shouldn't have to hit people over the head with a hint and I really don't think telltale had to give big hints like that, the puzzles were solid. Letting Max make subtle hints throughout the game is good. Besides, if people get really stuck that is what walk-throughs are for, at least its not like before the WWW and you had to call a 1-900 number and pay 75 cents a minute for hints and you have to wade through a complicated decision tree with an automated voice machine for 5 minutes just to get to puzzle you were stuck on, ahh memories but maybe I'm just a curmudgeonly old-school adventure gamer.
  • Dave GrossmanDave Grossman Telltale Alumni
    edited May 2007
    So, just FYI, (Hey look, actual information about why designers do the things they do!) we changed the way Max gives the hints to have that "I need a hint" line because people were clicking on Max just to talk to him and inadvertently seeing hints they didn't want. So we tried to make getting hints more deliberate. We could have made the line less obvious, but then we kind of go right back to the same problem again.

    That this was happening to people was something we learned from this forum -- which I take as evidence that the whole feedback-from-the-audience process works. But judging by this thread the solution is not perfect, so we'll continue to refine in the future. It's a particularly thorny problem, one of those ones where different people prefer very different approaches and we have to try to come down somewhere where we please as many as possible. Sort of like... well, like most problems, really.
  • edited May 2007
    One bad thing about the net is that everyone has their own likes and dislikes. I mean, for example, comic superheroes action figures. One person will complain about a certain feature say the toy is too small. the company would then fix it and would later received complains that the size is too big. Can't please everyone
  • edited May 2007
    So, just FYI, (Hey look, actual information about why designers do the things they do!) we changed the way Max gives the hints to have that "I need a hint" line because people were clicking on Max just to talk to him and inadvertently seeing hints they didn't want. So we tried to make getting hints more deliberate. We could have made the line less obvious, but then we kind of go right back to the same problem again.

    That this was happening to people was something we learned from this forum -- which I take as evidence that the whole feedback-from-the-audience process works. But judging by this thread the solution is not perfect, so we'll continue to refine in the future. It's a particularly thorny problem, one of those ones where different people prefer very different approaches and we have to try to come down somewhere where we please as many as possible. Sort of like... well, like most problems, really.

    Oh, yeah, never really thought about that one Dave. I suppose people could accidently get a hint if they didn't want one. :(
  • edited May 2007
    doom saber wrote: »
    One bad thing about the net is that everyone has their own likes and dislikes. I mean, for example, comic superheroes action figures. One person will complain about a certain feature say the toy is too small. the company would then fix it and would later received complains that the size is too big. Can't please everyone

    That's where polls come in. :) Polls are always a good idea. I think they should be utilized more often, when possible. Perhaps dedicate a section of the forum to polls entirely? :confused:
  • edited May 2007
    So, just FYI, (Hey look, actual information about why designers do the things they do!) we changed the way Max gives the hints to have that "I need a hint" line because people were clicking on Max just to talk to him and inadvertently seeing hints they didn't want. So we tried to make getting hints more deliberate. We could have made the line less obvious, but then we kind of go right back to the same problem again.

    I realized that was it. Maybe you can put an option (in the "options" menu) like "Should Max's hints be clearly stated?". If it's checked - you'd get the "I need a hint" line (still, maybe rephrased a bit to feel less like Sam is playing a computer game) and if it's unchecked - the same hints would be dispensed in Max's lines in a room-dependent way as in the previous games.

    Personally, I really liked the way the hints were placed in last games. I didn't even think of them as hints, because they were usually very subtle - more like the kind of help you'd expect to have from your partner while working on the case.
  • jmmjmm
    edited May 2007
    Warp Drive -> Max Hints

    In addition, you could use shift+click (or Control+click) to get Max Hints (regardless of the setting)
  • edited May 2007
    I did find it a bit strange that Max suddenly had all this sagely advice. Seemed a bit out-of-character, since Sam is usually the brains of the duo.
  • edited May 2007
    Maybe instead of Sam saying obviously 'gamey' like"I need a hint", he could say something like "What should we do Max?' or "Help me out little buddy".

    I know my suggestion seems to take us back to square one and the whole point was making the whole " max as a hint system" thing obvious. Forget it.

    I love Emily's suggestion of turning the hint system on or off :D
  • edited May 2007
    As already said in another thread before: I like the hint system as it is right now. I don't see what could be improved by having to check it in the options first. It's also funny to read the hints not just for hints, as some of them are subtile i liked clicking some of those just for fun when i already got the idea. Using a Lock/Unlocking seems not appropriate in this case to me.

    Maybe the phrase could be improved...should be obvious without sounding artificial.

    But i also don't have a problem with the current one.
  • edited May 2007
    Lol my fav episode is 5 mainly for the text based parts and humorous characters.
    But as for this antenna everyone mentions... how can you not have thought of it? I mean I dont want to sound like im saying anyone is stupid but as soon as I saw the car like door and the lock i knew what to go grab... anyone thats ever locked their keys in a car knows what to grab lol.
    I also miss the mouse pointer being a finger or something other than a mouse cursor.. maybe give us some options there. Also ive sent tons of ideas in email to you guys at telltale.. dont know if it even got there lol.
    All and all this new revised sam and max is awesome. It does lack some of the luster of the old but brings about some new changes and change is good.. sometimes. I hope to see many new features and changes in the second season, maybe open up a new forum for season 2 suggestions on minigames or other ideas and such.
    Keep rockin telltale.

    Adventure gamer since Zork 1

    P.S. you could make an entire mini game out of the half text based sam and max adventure :P
    A popup book would also be cool!
  • edited May 2007
    At least the fourth-wall breaking hints weren't as obvious as in Penumbra Overture. :P

    The main character said something like "I hope I can still use the mouse button to move things..."

    Not since Resident Evil's "You are truly the master of unlocking" have I laughed so hard at a horror game.
  • edited May 2007
    One thing I have noticed in the series is the speed of the characters, not when walking but during cut scenes and interactions. All the old pixelated games seemed to have much faster animations in them. Makes all the new characters seem a bit more dopey.
  • JenniferJennifer Moderator
    edited May 2007
    One thing I have noticed in the series is the speed of the characters, not when walking but during cut scenes and interactions. All the old pixelated games seemed to have much faster animations in them. Makes all the new characters seem a bit more dopey.
    It seems a lot more realistic that way. In the old LucasArts games, it often looked like the characters were talking so fast that their upper skull was going to separate from their jaw.
  • edited May 2007
    HERE BE SPOILERS AND I CANNA BE BOTHERED TO USE THE TAGS, CAP'N!

    I'll suggest that we've run into one of the "thorny issues" connected to the episodic format: Repetitive locations/characters/objects. I think someone mentioned that in Abe Lincoln Must Die, the posters in the alley were actually needed to solve one of the puzzles, whereas they'd just been fun clutter before. Similarly, I overlooked the antenna during Bright Side of the Moon until I went "pixel hunting", and I also didn't get the "deed" thing. I mean, I've been through the office in five episodes and not once has the closet-of-souvenirs yielded anything but giggles.

    I'm not saying I want less giggles - just saying that after a few episodes, they sort of slide off the radar as far as puzzle solving goes.

    As for what to do about it... Well, either stop using repetitive locations as places to hide important clues or objects after the first episode or two (although the characters are still game, of course), or make them more obvious when you enter said location. Or just carry on as per usual - I've been really really impressed with Season 1 and my suggestions should be taken purely as a way to add more awesome to something that is already, uhm, you know, awesome.

    Oh! And I'd like a "Max" button next to the inventory box - chasing my little lagomorph buddy across the screen because he wouldn't hold still got a little frustrating at times :)
  • edited May 2007
    One thing that might help would be if you could pick up objects that you don't need. If in episodes 2-5 I could pick up the
    coat hanger
    even though it wasn't particularly useful, I'd be more inclined to at least consider picking it up in episode 6. That might also help make the puzzles feel more tricky, actually.
    Also, after Max's hint that
    there must be something of value in the office,
    I was a bit disappointed that there was no way to attempt to sell anything, aside from the actual solution to the puzzle. In particular, I was surprised that I couldn't at least get a different comment by clicking on Jesse James's severed hand - Come on, that's gotta be worth something. Even if it is only 14 years old ;)
  • edited May 2007
    Kaldire wrote: »
    But as for this antenna everyone mentions... how can you not have thought of it? I mean I dont want to sound like im saying anyone is stupid but as soon as I saw the car like door and the lock i knew what to go grab... anyone thats ever locked their keys in a car knows what to grab lol.

    I think the guy in this spoiler-free walkthrough said it best, http://www.gamefaqs.com/computer/doswin/file/939029/48139
    The problem with some games, and indeed fiction in general, is that the people
    who write it have often lead a different life with different experiences than
    the audience. The designers of this game grew up in an era where pull-up locks
    were the norm, and not the near-anacrhonism they are today. This generational
    gap will no doubt be the cause of more and more frustration for younger gamers
    as time goes on, simply because the world is changing today at a much faster
    rate than it did just a few years ago. An otherwise "timeless" game could
    easily be marred by required knowledge and references to cultural artifacts
    that simply no longer exist in the future.
  • edited May 2007
    matan wrote: »
    Personally, I really liked the way the hints were placed in last games. I didn't even think of them as hints, because they were usually very subtle - more like the kind of help you'd expect to have from your partner while working on the case.
    That's exactly what I think, too! After all, why would you want to talk to your partner, if not ask him if you overlooked something?
    Ok, and for some laughs, but just a few funny dialogs get old pretty fast. The fun is to have something new to talk about as you make progress. And it adds greatly to the immersion into the game.
    Maybe the best way would be to have an option to turn these subtle hints on or off. So if they are turned on, it will be like in Episode 1-5. If they are turned off, you are left with some funny lines and come back for the funny subtle hints when you replay the game?

    I only got stuck at the end by the way. Maybe it's also because I get bored soon when the same few things happen in a neverending circle, and you have to do the right thing at the right time, but whenever you try the wrong thing the circle will go on and on and you have to wait until you are back at the place where you had an idea to try something ... I hate those parts ;)
    Anyway, after using
    all those talisman over and over again in the game
    , I tried to
    bend the landing-gear with the spoon-bender
    and it didn't work. The idea to
    saw it off
    never crossed my mind. Also, I tried to
    sabotage the lunar lander while I was standing next to the water-tank, and rather skipped the other parts because I thought the solution waits right here ...
    I don't say it was unfair, I just hate to see the same things over and over again until you finally (exidently) find another way that does work, so maybe I would have managed it if I were more patient ...

    Apart from that, I liked the last episode. It was nice to see most charakters again.
    The only thing that bugs me is, that you
    started a war
    in Episode 4, and it never apeared again. I was hoping that it would have some consequences in the later episodes.

    Anyway, when and where can I preoder Season 2 ?? :D
  • edited May 2007
    F_Slim wrote: »
    The only thing that bugs me is, that you
    started a war
    in Episode 4, and it never apeared again. I was hoping that it would have some consequences in the later episodes.

    Well, the Dakotas probably don't have a very effective war machine. They probably just threw some water balloons at one another and called it a day.

    I, too, was a bit sad that Max Hints weren't available at the only time I really got stuck:
    In the end "boss fight." I think it would have helped if clicking on stuff during that sequence would actually cause Sam to attempt to do something, because it basically came down to no matter what I clicked, there was no animation or comment, just Hugh saying NUH-UH and moving me to the next spot. It would have been nice if we could click on a few different things without consequence, but if we clicked on Hugh or tried to walk away, then he'd say NUH-UH and move us to the next thing. At the very least, since Sam & Max could apparently talk to one another (they did so when you cut off Hugh's head, for instance) it'd be nice if we could still click on Max, and maybe not get a big hint, but a vague nudge at how to break the cycle.
  • edited May 2007
    The way the hint system was done this time was disappointing to me because it was less elegantly executed than most of the solution Telltale found to unavoidable 'traditions' from the adventure genre.
    Well, to me at least, the greatest achievement throughout most of the season (except episode 3, 1 puzzle from episode 5 and , unfortunately a big chunk of episode 6) is that all the puzzle flowed from the way the character behaved.Solving puzzle was very exciting and rewarding because the only thing required was to act as Sam. In this respect, I was only consulting Max when I was stuck because Sam's reasoning didn't seem to fit the situation and Max's was. Thus, to me, there was no such thing as a 'hint system', only puzzles that were designed to be solely solved by Sam and other that were cooperative and required to also tap into Max weird bent mind... And the 'I need a hint' broke that kind of 'organic' system.
    Maybe the solution is to adapt Max tree of dialog corresponding to what puzzle are solved, which are one are still underway and which one are yet to be seen by the player... so it doesn't spoil what doesn't need to be. Either way I liked the previous one better because it was so invisible. If you're going to use an explicit hint option - and I wouldn't like it - just put it outside of the game universe like in Bones, it was a good solution.

    Anyway, episode 6 was a real rollercoaster from me : there were an equal amount of pure genious and of what I though were boring mechanical puzzles that were far too reminiscent from the time when puzzle were just there to slow down the player in unfolding the story.
    Some of the puzzles and solution were far too coincidental or separated from the main arc to get me really involved. Plus from time to time, there were weird false clue like the close up on the 'never-ending' battery from the Mole mecha-suit that however didn't fit anywhere in the game. I'm still evaluating if the opening sequence is very good or very bad : it was quite obvious who would be the villain and the way Sam comes to realize this is indeed very funny... but it felt more rush than planned like 'There's only one episode left, how are we going to make Sam and Max realize that they
    knew the enemy from the beginning
    ? .. -Hey, there's still that non-sensic way to do it-Let's go for it!' It was like waiting for a climax and having it in the first minute is troubling : it's very good cause it's unexpected but it breaks the momentum the last two episodes gave to the series.And because
    Max was so devoted to Bliss
    , I would have loved to see him join
    Hugh Bliss
    when Sam got his epiphany... and put some obstacles in Sam's way before coming to its senses.*sight* Yeah.

    Lots of stuff were really fun though : the new Bosco, the 3 Maxs (even though it felt a bit underused and there were discrepancies in the Max dialogs in this phase), the transformed Hugh Bliss from the last act (great, GREAT animation), the rat/pucking puzzle, Abe's romance and telephone puzzle, Canada's joke, tick tack doom, the returning characters, the end credits... and like previous episodes the dialogs, the acting and the stellar music.
    What felt weird afterwards though is how big the emphasis on Max is; it's a bit like Sam has become his sidekick.

    All in all, a very good season with some undeniable lows but very high highs. I hope you guys will try to find yet another angle at the episodic format for season 2. Sorry for the long post, but I thought this thread turned into a 'Let's give our two cents on Bright Side of the Moon", so I figured I'd join.
  • edited May 2007
    I completely disagree about the hint system. It's exactly what I was asking for. I was never sure which dialogue would lead to a hint and which wouldn't -- I just wanted to hear all of the funny stuff, and I wound up accidentally getting hints in the process. I don't really see how this new system is such a problem. You can still talk to Max about other stuff...
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