I didn't have a problem with the coathanger puzzle. Once I pondered Max' hint about the lunar lander I eventually thought of the coathanger, because it's the only thing in the game that could be used for that. What I did get stuck on was how to get the money for the earthquake machine. I didn't realize that I didn't actually needed the money yet, and tried to get it so I could use the earthquake machine to destroy Hugh Bliss' moon resort. Max' hint eventually clued me in that there was nothing I could do about it at that point, but it took a lot to convince me of that.
EDIT: I also agree with above poster about the hint system. Please keep it this way.
The coat hanger puzzle is a classic and is featured in more games. Its one of those items that you know you would need to use at some time (Same goes for a rope). I would have used a different approach taking the coat hanger: Allowing Sam to take it only after
he saw the key in the lunar lander
The hint system should give you the option of using it or not. As I said earlier, having an on/off switch is a good solution. If it is turned on, you can see the explicit "I need a hint" line, otherwise the regular pre-episode 6 approach would be used.
I know this approach requires more work from TT, but it does add some replayability value if the lines are different.
we changed the way Max gives the hints to have that "I need a hint" line because people were clicking on Max just to talk to him and inadvertently seeing hints they didn't want.
Thanks Dave I thinks its great you posted. My suggestion would be to make the hints that Max gives of a sort that no one would mind receiving, something subtle and organic to the situation, so they don't even know its a hint, I don't think people would oppose that, except for the most masochistic out there. I understand that would be harder to write for. And I know, its hard to please everyone, thats just my opinion.
Maybe instead of "Can I have a hint", he could say "Any ideas Max?" which seems a bit more natural.
Also, so it doesn't seem like Max knows everything, he could just say something completely unhelpful, which is then taken out of context by Sam who reiterates it as an actual clue (a bit like the "Morning" line at the beginning of episode 6).
For the record, when I saw the keys locked inside the lander, the first thing I thought of was the coat hangar, and we've used it in a previous episode so I knew just where to go.
As for Leonard, I solved that one by accident without actually getting stuck first.
Man, lots of complaining! Hasn't anyone here ever played the classic "Sam and Max Hit the Road"? As much as I love them, these webisode puzzles are *way* easier to solve. And yes, there were many instances where you could use Max, on objects, dialog, or even just to get ideas.
It may have taken a long time to solve the game, but that was the fun! It was a labor of love (sigh)...
I agree with scollege. If people are complaining about the difficulty, then that means it's moving in the right direction. As the "last level" in the season, it should be more difficult than the previous episodes.
The only part I got hung up on was the cycle of death traps, but that was more my own narrow thinking.
The hint system with Max was fine. Some of the lines were a little cryptic but I liked it better than all of them being obvious. Dialogue trees are only as intrusive as you let them be!
The only thing I was disappointed to was the nod to monkey island without the follow up. I waited 20 minutes just to make sure.
Honestly, the whole not getting a real hint thing reminded me of the good old days of games like this. I'm sure you'd HATE Hit the Road if you didn't like having to randomly use objects on people and places. Not to mention a lot of other good games...
I enjoyed it. I thought the puzzles were a little soft like most of the other series, but the dialog and humor in how to solve things is what matters to me. The hint thing was a little blatant, but if you talked to Max in the other episodes he'd give you slight hints as well. If you didn't want them there then don't click on them. :P
Mann I loved this episode and its puzzles.. In previous episodes I stopped talking to Max because he kept giving me hints when all I wanted was to talk to him. I thought it was great in this episode it was a seperate dialogue tree. I knew not to select that line and he provided some great laughs otherwise. The coathanger puzzle made a lot of sense. The keys are locked in the lander.. first thing you do when you lock your keys in the car get a coathanger! it didn't immediately come to mind..but when it did I thought great.. As far as Leonard.. I knew I needed that earthquake shaker to solve the blue max..and i knew I needed that trillian dollars from bosco..sam had said earlier this was a hint i think that something valuable was in the office..so I scoured that place and ended up getting the deed..
Mann I loved this episode and its puzzles.. In previous episodes I stopped talking to Max because he kept giving me hints when all I wanted was to talk to him. I thought it was great in this episode it was a seperate dialogue tree. I knew not to select that line and he provided some great laughs otherwise. The coathanger puzzle made a lot of sense. The keys are locked in the lander.. first thing you do when you lock your keys in the car get a coathanger! it didn't immediately come to mind..but when it did I thought great.. As far as Leonard.. I knew I needed that earthquake shaker to solve the blue max..and i knew I needed that trillian dollars from bosco..sam had said earlier this was a hint i think that something valuable was in the office..so I scoured that place and ended up getting the deed..
The only bad thing is that cars aren't really made like that anymore...
Considering my first car was a 63' ford the FIRST thing I thought of when I saw the puzzle was coat hanger :P
Also they had the same puzzle in an old adventure game called amazon...
My problem with the coathanger puzzle is that there was a perfectly good coathanger right there in the gift shop!
It seemed pretty clear you needed a coathanger (what with the crack in the window) but I'd forgotten about the one in the apartment.
Spent a good while trying to get that emetics tshirt to no avail!
Complaint - I know all the extra dialogue is more tedium for some people, but there was very little usage of Max dialogue in the last several games. I can't remember the last time I had to use Max's dialogue to solve a puzzle. I remember there was one or more in Episode 2, but can't recall any after that.
Well, um, it's a real pain in the a** really. You need to bend the coathanger straight as possible to get the kinks out, then bend it so you can grab the lock inside and pull it up. Of course, if your window is all the way up or if there is no vertical lock, then you're screwed! Hurrah!
The hint system should give you the option of using it or not. As I said earlier, having an on/off switch is a good solution. If it is turned on, you can see the explicit "I need a hint" line, otherwise the regular pre-episode 6 approach would be used.
See, here's the thing I don't get: for the first time, it really DOES give you the option of using it or not. I used to get tricked into using it; now I don't. Problem solved... right?
I guess the problem is that the way Sam asks for hints and the way Max answers don't seem to fit the character nor the universe. Plus, even though I don't enjoy hard puzzles, I simply hate explicit hints given by ingame characters. It feels out of place, like suddently you had the puzzle designer right in front of you. When I want unambigious clues I consult a walkthrough; so in the game itself, I'd rather have some veiled allusion in the dialogs.
The problem with having a "Press this for hints"-line in the dialog-box is, that it takes you out of the game! It makes you realize, that you are sitting in front of the screen, clicking stuff to solve puzzles. You are no longer immerged in the game, you are no longer Sam, trying to solve the puzzles with the help (or distraction) of your little buddy Max.
That's why I would vote for an "use subtle hints on/off"-option. Those who don't like them can turn it off and listen to some one-liners without hints. For the rest of us nothing would change.
I guess this should please most gamers??
The only thing I was disappointed to was the nod to monkey island without the follow up. I waited 20 minutes just to make sure.
Honestly, the whole not getting a real hint thing reminded me of the good old days of games like this. I'm sure you'd HATE Hit the Road if you didn't like having to randomly use objects on people and places. Not to mention a lot of other good games...
Wait, what monkey island ref? I almost think I know what you're talking about, but it escapes me.
And I did what every other player of old adventure games did when I got stuck at the blue max part - I used the puking talisman on everyone I could think of while trying to figure out what I could sell to get the monies. And maybe I'm just strange, but the whole green max puzzle made complete sense to me after I got the hat. That kind of puzzle logic seems to work for me.
In any event, I guess a slight re-phrasing would please everyone.
Not really. What I said is that I actually LIKED the subtle hints placed in Max dialogs, and prefer if they were back.
I actually like easy adventure games (since I play mostly for the jokes and the story, and for the feeling of being immersed in the plot) but I hate following walkthroughs. The way Max gave you hints in the dialogs in the last games made the game a bit easier for me. The way Max gives you hints now, makes me feel as if I'm following a walkthrough, which sucks.
Example - when I was stuck with getting the money. If the "hint" system was set up as in last games, I'd eventually get stuck for a few minutes, and then decide to talk with Max and ask him what he thinks of everything. Then I'd get the
"something of value lying around the office"
and know where to go. In this game, I was already stuck for an hour. This whole time, that "I need a hint" dialog option just stared at me, daring me to click it, but I tried with all my might to resist. Eventually, after an hour of wandering around, I got that "Damn it, I'm stupid, I need a walkthrough" feel, and with great discomfort I slowly dragged my mouse to Max, and then to that dialog, hitting it and feeling utterly ashamed with myself.
I don't think the vomit should have been made to look more real. In fact,
the few bits spattered over Bosco's
were out of place with the cartoon ambience (I feel the same way about
Whizzer wetting his pants
in the first episode). Sam and Max has always concentrated more on implicit violence, gore and grossness, rather than actually showing it.
As for the hint system, I liked it the old way, but think Max should only comment on the problem, not actually give the player any help solving it. One of the reasons the games are much easier than HTR is that there is a chain of clues on how to do just about everything. This seems to have softened some people up, meaning they complain when there isn't an immediately obvious answer.
I thought the rainbow vomit was pretty funny and thankfully not gross. It also matches the "emetics" graphic that has been used since episode 1.
I still think that if you ask Max for a hint, his first reaction should just be "No!" It would be funny, but it would also give the player proper warning before asking Max again.
I think the vomit should have looked more like real vomit. It would have made the game seem more real.
And everyone should have a more realistic reaction to a pair of anthro animals walking into their workplaces. And Max should take longer using the toilet at Bosco's. And Abe Lincoln's statue really should have been less flexible seeing as it's made of stone.
Really, Telltale, how could you make all these oversights? It really took away my suspension of disbelief.
Re the coathanger, surely if you can pick it up you do so? Its what you do in these games! And yes it was used in one of the earlier episodes, and I skipped it too for a while in episode six!
I don't mind the hints from Max, they only remind you of things most of the time, that you have alteady stumbled across, and most times the answers are suitably funny anyway.
Likewise using the rocket engine (first time) try everything with everything. Have to say the legless rocket finale was a bit tricky, I cut the leg, but took ages to realise the second part of that puzzle.
The emetic "only works with something that has a stomach", therefore try everything with a stomach!
Why no explanation as to who 'Roy G Biv' was? I tried anagrams and then the penny dropped, just looking at the order of the letters.
Great set of games, loved the Enterprise leaving it's warp drive on, when Sam uses the PA system for bogus announcements. Great touch.
Roll on season two; Season one was excellent every time. The closing credits with Max and the boxing glove were very satisfying.
ROY G BIV = "Red Orange Yellow Green Blue Indigo Violet" = the colors of the rainbow = Hugh. Representing it as "Roy G. Biv," like someone's name, is a popular device used in school to teach young children the order of the colors in the rainbow.
Oops! Came too late, but whatever.
Against people which are complaining about the difficulty, I want to say that the last puzzles were harder and that's just what we wanted.
Months ago lots of people were complaining about the puzzles being too easy, and Telltale promised they were going to increase their difficulty.
They did it, it wasn't even a simple thing to do, because of the episodic nature of the games and the lack of a big space and the small number of characters per episode.
Now lots of people aren't happy about it, I just don't get it.
Imho: go on this way, keep the difficulty of the puzzles medium/hard, and, if possible, increase it again and again.
I think it's just a good thing to see that it takes a while to the players to finish the game, since one of the main critics that Telltale initially received was that the games were so easy that it was like watching an interactive cartoon by clicking here and there.
Keep it up, guys, great work!
Against people which are complaining about the difficulty, I want to say that the last puzzles were harder and that's just what we wanted.
I didn't complain about the difficulty. I complained about two specific puzzle which were UNFAIR, meaning - I couldn't have found them up without pixel hunting (
finding the antenna since I didn't know the USE COATHANGER TO GET CAR KEYS trick
) or randomly using objects with items(
Making Leonard puke, since I didn't click on him at the beginning of the game, and therefore had no way to know he had been eating the deed
). I think some of the puzzles in Abe Lincoln and Reality 2.0 (and also some of the puzzles in this game) were difficult in a good way, and not unfair.
I didn't complain about the difficulty. I complained about two specific puzzle which were UNFAIR, meaning - I couldn't have found them up without pixel hunting (
finding the antenna since I didn't know the USE COATHANGER TO GET CAR KEYS trick
) or randomly using objects with items(
Making Leonard puke, since I didn't click on him at the beginning of the game, and therefore had no way to know he had been eating the deed
). I think some of the puzzles in Abe Lincoln and Reality 2.0 (and also some of the puzzles in this game) were difficult in a good way, and not unfair.
Sorry, I wasn't referring to you in particular:)
Anyway, the funny thing is that I got stuck exactly at those two points of the game.
Speaking of the
USE COATHANGER TO GET CAR KEYS
puzzle, I can tell you I had a sudden enlightment after 40 minutes of "WTF do I do now?" and I understood what to do. It was pretty satisfactory, it's one of those sensations that made me remember why I love adventure games!
That's why I always appreciate at least one or two obscure puzzles, just my opinion!
I'm really really bad at playing Adventure games. To be honest, I've used a walkthough on every episode. I'm even so stupid to look up how to get into the office in Reality 2.0 while being small ...
Anyway, I always try to turn on the TV in the office and play with the antenna. Immediately, at the start of the game. And so I happened to have the coat hanger in my inventory from the start. Don't know how, but I got the deed equally fast (without looking it up and when I found out Bosco wanted a trillion dollars and Sybil wanted to cough that up, it was pretty obvious.
Also I noticed that there was a saw-icon when cutting the magic box, so I figured I had to cut something. Of course that could only be done the second time around, but I figured it out ... a little by accident though ... but still
I particularly liked the the insane things like severed hands and cotton tail and evil maxes - totally out of this world! So for me the last episode was great - no every day persons - even the most normal ones (Bosco and Sybil) were freaky! Very cartoonish. And that's why I bought these adventures, knowing that I would suck anyway at them
I'm really really bad at playing Adventure games. To be honest, I've used a walkthough on every episode. I'm even so stupid to look up how to get into the office in Reality 2.0 while being small ...
You don't have to be stupid for that. I do that too, just because I have experienced one too many times getting stuck on some puzzle, just to never finish the game. Don't ask me why, but it's even easier for me to put the game away and never finish it when each episode is like 2-4 hours long, it's like - there's always more next month, no point in wasting time on a poorly written puzzle. When I get stuck a little bit, I pull out my walkthrough instead of wasting time trying to figure out a puzzle. I love the jokes and the funny comments, so I can't be bothered to waste time on some brain twisting puzzle. I rather want to push on and enjoy the jokes! Usually I forget how to solve half of the puzzles(since I didn't solve them myself!) by the next time I play through the game, so at that time I can rather take the time to twist my mind .
I did this on hit the road as well. Actually, Hit the road was one of those games I got stuck on and it took a long time before I finished it(first time I played it was back in 1995 or 96, but I finished it for the first time in 2003). I find it so annoying when an illogical puzzle ruins my gaming experience, so better to apply a walkthrough instead if one gets confused.
Comments
EDIT: I also agree with above poster about the hint system. Please keep it this way.
The hint system should give you the option of using it or not. As I said earlier, having an on/off switch is a good solution. If it is turned on, you can see the explicit "I need a hint" line, otherwise the regular pre-episode 6 approach would be used.
I know this approach requires more work from TT, but it does add some replayability value if the lines are different.
Thanks Dave I thinks its great you posted. My suggestion would be to make the hints that Max gives of a sort that no one would mind receiving, something subtle and organic to the situation, so they don't even know its a hint, I don't think people would oppose that, except for the most masochistic out there. I understand that would be harder to write for. And I know, its hard to please everyone, thats just my opinion.
Also, so it doesn't seem like Max knows everything, he could just say something completely unhelpful, which is then taken out of context by Sam who reiterates it as an actual clue (a bit like the "Morning" line at the beginning of episode 6).
As for Leonard, I solved that one by accident without actually getting stuck first.
It may have taken a long time to solve the game, but that was the fun! It was a labor of love (sigh)...
The only part I got hung up on was the cycle of death traps, but that was more my own narrow thinking.
The hint system with Max was fine. Some of the lines were a little cryptic but I liked it better than all of them being obvious. Dialogue trees are only as intrusive as you let them be!
Honestly, the whole not getting a real hint thing reminded me of the good old days of games like this. I'm sure you'd HATE Hit the Road if you didn't like having to randomly use objects on people and places. Not to mention a lot of other good games...
I enjoyed it. I thought the puzzles were a little soft like most of the other series, but the dialog and humor in how to solve things is what matters to me. The hint thing was a little blatant, but if you talked to Max in the other episodes he'd give you slight hints as well. If you didn't want them there then don't click on them. :P
The only bad thing is that cars aren't really made like that anymore...
Considering my first car was a 63' ford the FIRST thing I thought of when I saw the puzzle was coat hanger :P
Also they had the same puzzle in an old adventure game called amazon...
Can you please elaborate on that? I locked my keys in the car a while ago and I didn't know what to do. What am I supposed to do with the coathanger?
It seemed pretty clear you needed a coathanger (what with the crack in the window) but I'd forgotten about the one in the apartment.
Spent a good while trying to get that emetics tshirt to no avail!
Complaint - I know all the extra dialogue is more tedium for some people, but there was very little usage of Max dialogue in the last several games. I can't remember the last time I had to use Max's dialogue to solve a puzzle. I remember there was one or more in Episode 2, but can't recall any after that.
See, here's the thing I don't get: for the first time, it really DOES give you the option of using it or not. I used to get tricked into using it; now I don't. Problem solved... right?
That's why I would vote for an "use subtle hints on/off"-option. Those who don't like them can turn it off and listen to some one-liners without hints. For the rest of us nothing would change.
I guess this should please most gamers??
Wait, what monkey island ref? I almost think I know what you're talking about, but it escapes me.
And I did what every other player of old adventure games did when I got stuck at the blue max part - I used the puking talisman on everyone I could think of while trying to figure out what I could sell to get the monies. And maybe I'm just strange, but the whole green max puzzle made complete sense to me after I got the hat. That kind of puzzle logic seems to work for me.
In any event, I guess a slight re-phrasing would please everyone.
Not really. What I said is that I actually LIKED the subtle hints placed in Max dialogs, and prefer if they were back.
I actually like easy adventure games (since I play mostly for the jokes and the story, and for the feeling of being immersed in the plot) but I hate following walkthroughs. The way Max gave you hints in the dialogs in the last games made the game a bit easier for me. The way Max gives you hints now, makes me feel as if I'm following a walkthrough, which sucks.
Example - when I was stuck with getting the money. If the "hint" system was set up as in last games, I'd eventually get stuck for a few minutes, and then decide to talk with Max and ask him what he thinks of everything. Then I'd get the
So do I, and also you should have made the puke look more real.
As for the hint system, I liked it the old way, but think Max should only comment on the problem, not actually give the player any help solving it. One of the reasons the games are much easier than HTR is that there is a chain of clues on how to do just about everything. This seems to have softened some people up, meaning they complain when there isn't an immediately obvious answer.
I still think that if you ask Max for a hint, his first reaction should just be "No!" It would be funny, but it would also give the player proper warning before asking Max again.
Really, Telltale, how could you make all these oversights? It really took away my suspension of disbelief.
I don't mind the hints from Max, they only remind you of things most of the time, that you have alteady stumbled across, and most times the answers are suitably funny anyway.
Likewise using the rocket engine (first time) try everything with everything. Have to say the legless rocket finale was a bit tricky, I cut the leg, but took ages to realise the second part of that puzzle.
The emetic "only works with something that has a stomach", therefore try everything with a stomach!
Why no explanation as to who 'Roy G Biv' was? I tried anagrams and then the penny dropped, just looking at the order of the letters.
Great set of games, loved the Enterprise leaving it's warp drive on, when Sam uses the PA system for bogus announcements. Great touch.
Roll on season two; Season one was excellent every time. The closing credits with Max and the boxing glove were very satisfying.
Against people which are complaining about the difficulty, I want to say that the last puzzles were harder and that's just what we wanted.
Months ago lots of people were complaining about the puzzles being too easy, and Telltale promised they were going to increase their difficulty.
They did it, it wasn't even a simple thing to do, because of the episodic nature of the games and the lack of a big space and the small number of characters per episode.
Now lots of people aren't happy about it, I just don't get it.
Imho: go on this way, keep the difficulty of the puzzles medium/hard, and, if possible, increase it again and again.
I think it's just a good thing to see that it takes a while to the players to finish the game, since one of the main critics that Telltale initially received was that the games were so easy that it was like watching an interactive cartoon by clicking here and there.
Keep it up, guys, great work!
I didn't complain about the difficulty. I complained about two specific puzzle which were UNFAIR, meaning - I couldn't have found them up without pixel hunting (
Sorry, I wasn't referring to you in particular:)
Anyway, the funny thing is that I got stuck exactly at those two points of the game.
Speaking of the
That's why I always appreciate at least one or two obscure puzzles, just my opinion!
But I have entered my car several times in the 70's with a coathanger, so the Lunar Module door was obvious to me!
Anyway, I always try to turn on the TV in the office and play with the antenna. Immediately, at the start of the game. And so I happened to have the coat hanger in my inventory from the start. Don't know how, but I got the deed equally fast (without looking it up
Also I noticed that there was a saw-icon when cutting the magic box, so I figured I had to cut something. Of course that could only be done the second time around, but I figured it out ... a little by accident though ... but still
I particularly liked the the insane things like severed hands and cotton tail and evil maxes - totally out of this world! So for me the last episode was great - no every day persons - even the most normal ones (Bosco and Sybil) were freaky! Very cartoonish. And that's why I bought these adventures, knowing that I would suck anyway at them
Marc
Yes Roy G Biv might have been easier! But we English love our language.
How about: Double U, Double U, Double U; Longer to say than World Wide Web?
Seem to have drifted away from Sam and Max here, sounding more like Sybil!
You don't have to be stupid for that. I do that too, just because I have experienced one too many times getting stuck on some puzzle, just to never finish the game. Don't ask me why, but it's even easier for me to put the game away and never finish it when each episode is like 2-4 hours long, it's like - there's always more next month, no point in wasting time on a poorly written puzzle. When I get stuck a little bit, I pull out my walkthrough instead of wasting time trying to figure out a puzzle. I love the jokes and the funny comments, so I can't be bothered to waste time on some brain twisting puzzle. I rather want to push on and enjoy the jokes! Usually I forget how to solve half of the puzzles(since I didn't solve them myself!) by the next time I play through the game, so at that time I can rather take the time to twist my mind
I did this on hit the road as well. Actually, Hit the road was one of those games I got stuck on and it took a long time before I finished it(first time I played it was back in 1995 or 96, but I finished it for the first time in 2003). I find it so annoying when an illogical puzzle ruins my gaming experience, so better to apply a walkthrough instead if one gets confused.