I think why KQ3 ranked so high on my list is when I first played it as a kid I one instantly identified with Gwydion (Alexander) because he was younger then Graham..
There was also a sense of urgency and sneaking around I liked.. It felt like I was going to get caught at any second..
I know now years later there isn't much to the game but I get nostalgic about it when I play.
So yeah... that is why it rated so high on my list.
I think its, pretty good for the first time play through... But its one that I feel ages with each additional play (when compared to others in the series)...
It doesn't have much replay value, and the spell system is kinda tedious... As is the 'travel up the mountain' between the sorcerer's trips... I tend to go to take out Manannan first thing, to avoid any of that problem, when I play the game now (at least limits the amount of times I need to head up and down the mountain)...
Waiting for events is another tedious aspect of the game... The whole ship sequence for example takes a long time, to reach the other land... You also have to wait for the random rat conversation (if you want to get the treasure chest and full points) which can take quite a bit of time, and restories (if you are unlucky).
I already mentioned that the puzzles aren't that compelling, since the manual more or less tells you what items you need, and what those items are used for.
But its seriously not one of the games I go back to play over and over that much due to its limitations and flaws.... It's a very slow and tedious game... It didn't age well...
How does Infamous Adventure's Klytos describe games (and there continued appeal)? Floaters, sinkers, and growers?
I'd add the term, 'shrinker'... KQ3, is one that 'shrinks' with repeated play throughs imo...
I'm surprised Kings' Quest 7 isn't hated as much as it should be. Don't get me wrong, I don't care for 8 either. The best King's Quest games are IV, V, and VI. But I think too many people like 7 more than they should. Let's be honest. Mask of Eternity wasn't the ruination of King's Quest, though it was certainly a terrible King's Quest game, it was Princeless Bride. There are numerous reasons I feel this way.
1. Too cutesy: Don't get me wrong. I love cutesy stuff. King's Quest 1-6 had plenty of cutesy stuff. But none of it was overdone, over the top cutesy. Fairy-tales are dark and dreary, as well as cute. Three had cute elements like the three bears, but it also had very dark elements, child slavery. Two had a Hagatha, a cannibal. Six had cute elements like the Isle of Wonders and the garden, but it also had dark elements like the Isle of the Dead and murder.
2. Lame Villain: Malicia is an awful villain. She's like something from a Saturday morning cartoon. Let's look at five. Five had Mordack, someone you didn't want to mess with, one scary wizard with a vendetta. Six had Abdul Allhazarad, a treacherous advisor who had murdered the king and queen so as to wed the princess and then possibly kill her off. Four had Lolita, another nasty villainess who had Rosella do her evil bidding and terrorized Genesta. Three had Manannan, a wizard who kidnapped children, made them into slaves, and then killed them when they reached eighteen.
3. Rosella the brat: What happened to the Rosella I loved in King's Quest IV, who saved Tamir and her father? She's been made into a valley-girl, a whiny brat! When she talks she gives me a migraine. Her bad Sound-of-Music like song at the beginning doesn't help either. Except, Sound of Music was actually good.
4. Too cartoony: The previous games had somewhat of a cartoon feel, but more in a serious nature. Their graphics made the fairy tale lands feel a bit enchanted and magical. This game is more like a bad rendition of Disney.
There you have it. Mask of Eternity isn't that great, and is one of my least favorites. But I'm a little bewildered at the people who praise Princeless Bride so much. It's really not that great of a game, and, if I may be frank, a disgrace to the previous King's Quest games.
I agree. I can see why people have disdain for certain aspects of gameplay, like a single-option cursor, no narrator, lack of walk-speed controls, and an either wonky or nonexistent ability to save on-the-fly... but I still don't think it deserves as much hate as it gets. It's as though KQ7 is one of those games that has become popular to complain about.
I agree. I can see why people have disdain for certain aspects of gameplay, like a single-option cursor, no narrator, lack of walk-speed controls, and an either wonky or nonexistent ability to save on-the-fly... but I still don't think it deserves as much hate as it gets. It's as though KQ7 is one of those games that has become popular to complain about.
MoE though is not an adventure game. It's a 3D-action-platformer. It's a spin-off.
I take issue with acceptance of it as a core title when it's really not. Now, it could have been a core title, if the series had continued further in the same or another style/genre of gameplay, but as it stands MoE is the only title that is not a point & click (or parser) adventure game. Thus, it stands out on its own, with its own style being widely dissimilar from the other games.
Frankly, both KQ7 and MOE are both games that I hardly ever touch. I remember enjoying MOE back in the day, and marveling at how pretty it was with its cool Voodoo enhanced dynamic lighting. But it looks like dogshit now, and even worse because there is no way to get it to look as nice as it did on 15+ year old hardware. I honestly doubt I'll ever play it again.
KQ7, on the other hand, I ALWAYS hated. I don't play it because it makes me want to claw my own throat out. It's just so horrible in every way.
I didn't care much for King's Quest VII in 1994, and in almost 18 years, my opinion hasn't changed. It just fell short.
Lambo's just very passionate about what he doesn't like. You should see when he likes something, though. If you're standing near him, you're going to be covered in all kinds of spittle and foam.
KQ7 got annoying to me when you clicked on a hotspot and the big clue Valanice would give you is "Hmmm....". Still I always hated KQ2AGI more, the story was boring and sloppy to me. KQ2VGA+ was a big step up.
MoE though is not an adventure game. It's a 3D-action-platformer. It's a spin-off.
This is 'bull''. Roberta Williams designed it to be King's Quest 8 from the getgo... It was never intended to be a 'spinoff'. She also intended it to evolve out of the limitations of a simple 'Adventure Game"...
You have to remember, KQ7 her previous game had gotten terrible reviews in the industry, many who stated it was 'outdated', and lacked 'innovation'. Some reviewers werent' fond of the art style (although in general that was probably its most 'positive' attribute according to most of the press), and others thought the story overly too 'cute' and/or was dry... Many reviewers went as far to say that Roberta should have just ended when she was ahead (KQ6 and Phantasmagoria as there examples), and not bothered to make KQ7... In anycase it wasn't particularly well received by the industry...
She was living in a period when Adventure game industry was failing, because people wanted more... So she wanted to make a game that combined elements that were successfull at the industry at the time, along with her classic adventure game ideas... KQ8 was that game...
The problem is she started with action (because she had little experience with that) before she got to developing puzzles... Due to techonoglical issues, funding, and internal problems with Sierra's new owners (one guy didn't want Roberta to make the game, thinking her game was 'violent and satanic'...), she never truly got into the level of puzzles that it probably would have had... It never looked as good as she wanted it to look... It didnt' have the number of boss enemies she wanted it to have...
Roberta's only other alternative at the time, was probably just let KQ7 be the last game... and let the series die...
Incidently, she was somewhat successful on pleasing the industry, as KQ8 received overly positive reviews... People were already asking when she was going to make KQ9... However, it wasn't good enough for the owners of Sierra themselves...
I always hated KQ2AGI more, the story was boring and sloppy
The story in KQ2 is simple, but compared to other games of its time, it actually was quite innovative... It pushed what games were capable of doing at that time...
Actually compare KQ1AGI to KQ2, and you'll see that KQ1 was by the more the most simple of the early games... KQ2 added more or less linear plot/development (via the door), and introduction movie... KQ1 original didn't really have an intro, and pretty much set the player to randomly explore and solve things... KQ2 is also about twice as large as KQ1 in amount of content, and puzzles.
BTW, I think that KQ2RTS story is crap... It's too gimmicky, changes the story from the original too much... It does many of the same things that The Silver Lining did to the series... Fanfictiony stuff, like 1000 year prophecies, Black Cloak Society tied into everything... The angsty dramatic stuff... But eh I've discussed this in other threads ad nauseum... I won't go much further... I'm serious glad its only fan fiction...
and even worse because there is no way to get it to look as nice as it did on 15+ year old hardware
BTW, I actually find KQ8 to be one of my favorite games in the series... Although I don't really have a 'single favorite'... That's tough, I pretty much like KQ5, KQ6, KQ8, and KQ2 equally...
KQ4 and KQ1SCI are close too...
KQ1AGI is probably my third least favorite after KQ3 and KQ7 (but that's only because art style isn't near as defined as later games in the series)... But its a 'Graham' game, and it has better puzzles than KQ3... So I give it higher marks...
MoE though is not an adventure game. It's a 3D-action-platformer. It's a spin-off. I take issue with acceptance of it as a core title when it's really not. Now, it could have been a core title
This is 'bull''. Roberta Williams designed it to be King's Quest 8 from the getgo... It was never intended to be a 'spinoff'. She also intended it to evolve out of the limitations of a simple 'Adventure Game"...
Whether she intended it to be a spin-off, it still very much feels like one.
it could have been a core title, if the series had continued further in the same or another style/genre of gameplay, but as it stands MoE is the only title that is not a point & click (or parser) adventure game. Thus, it stands out on its own, with its own style being widely dissimilar from the other games.
The first seven games in the series use the same type of fixed-point camera angle, star members of the same family, and in general could be considered prime examples of a graphic adventure game. Combat in these cases is relegated simply to sequences of puzzles of a sort. MoE is the only game to be so removed from the style of the rest of the KQ games. Whether or not it's considered a good game, it's still a very different game.
EDIT: And I'm not about to excuse Roberta for kowtowing to "marketplace realities."
A game is not a spin-off just because you deem it to be.
See that big number 8 in the title? Ya, that's because it is the 8th game in a series.
Yeah, as Bt said--Sierra acknowledged how different it was and essentially established it officially as a spin-off by removing the number from the title. It is only numbered in the European release, I believe. And you know what they say about Europeans.
Actually compare KQ1AGI to KQ2, and you'll see that KQ1 was by the more the most simple of the early games... KQ2 added more or less linear plot/development (via the door), and introduction movie... KQ1 original didn't really have an intro, and pretty much set the player to randomly explore and solve things... KQ2 is also about twice as large as KQ1 in amount of content, and puzzles.
BTW, I think that KQ2RTS story is crap... It's too gimmicky, changes the story from the original too much... It does many of the same things that The Silver Lining did to the series... Fanfictiony stuff, like 1000 year prophecies, Black Cloak Society tied into everything... The angsty dramatic stuff... But eh I've discussed this in other threads ad nauseum... I won't go much further... I'm serious glad its only fan fiction...
Hey that's fine that's your opinion. I enjoyed KQ2VGA+ , it reminded me of KQ6 but I can see why you'd disagree with the changes. My biggest problem with KQ2 was the manual led you to beleive that Hagatha would play a big role in the game, but all we get is stealing a bird and we're done with her. i remember hearing that the manual design and game development didn't hook up and get their stories straight but it sure left a disappointing feeling for me when I was playing the game.
Basically the game and the manual was created by two different authors...
Roberta Williams created the game, the manual was written by Annette Childs.
Annette Childs also went on to write the manual story for KQ3 as well.
I've tried to do some research on her, and I'm not sure if she was a Sierra employee or a third party professional writer... She wrote a few manuals for other companies as well, but that could be after she 'left' Sierra.
In anycase back KQ2, this meant that Roberta focused more on Dracula as the game's uber villain...
Whereas Annetted focused on Hagatha...
Oddly enough, Roberta kinda did the same thing when she wrote the second story prologue for KQ1! Where she made the Witch, Wizard, and Dwarf somewhat more important to the game's backstory, but in original game they were not nearly that important...!
A few discrepencies exist between that second version of the prologue story and the KQ1AGI as well! For example, in KQ1AGI, Edward makes a point that the treasures were legendary treasures 'he's heard of'... Whereas Roberta's updated prologue story, made the treasures out to be 'treasures stolen from Edward"!
Yeah, as Bt said--Sierra acknowledged how different it was and essentially established it officially as a spin-off by removing the number from the title. It is only numbered in the European release, I believe. And you know what they say about Europeans.
Actually, the number was removed (although Roberta in articles and interviews still called it King's Quest 8, she and Ken still do!) not because they 'considered' it a spinoff but because they didn't want new players to feel they needed to play previous games in the series to enjoy it. Roberta always called it KQ8 in her personal correspondance, even after the game's release. Early versions of the American release also contained a gold foil emblem that called it the 'eigth game in the King's Quest series' as well.
Keep in mind that around that time quite a few games were droppign their sequel numbers! Previously there was Quest for Glory: Shadows of Darkness (not called QFG4 on the packaging or in game)!
There was Police Quest: Open Season (not called PQ4 on the title screen or packaging).
There was Lost Secret of the Rainforest (didn't even bother to list the fact it was the sequel to EcoQuest).
The Beast Within (didn't even number itself, although there was a note it was a 'Gabriel Knight Mystery').
Leisure Suity Larry 2 isn't called Larry 2...
The Dr. Brain games never bothered to number their games at all. The Dagger of Amon Ra, didn't bother to number the game at all (although Roberta referred to it as LB2)!
Btw, Did you know Roberta nearly dropped the number from KQ7 as well (probably for the same reasons, not force new players into thinking they had to buy previous games in the series to enjoy them)!
A game is not a spin-off just because you deem it to be.
This is true... Besides if Roberta had truly wanted to distance it from KQ as a 'spinoff' (which as we know she didn't), she could have dropped the "King's Quest" (from the title altogether).
BTW, the King's Quest wasn't the only series of that era, that change directions to survive the decline of adventure game genre... Adding new features, or moving in a different direction for series! To the chagrin of some of the old fans...
Look at Broken Sword 3 which consists primarily of box puzzles, stealth gameplay, and timed action sequences! With next to no regular adventure inventory puzzles!
Quest for Glory V, dropped the adventure aspects, and went straight action-RPG! It was no longer advertised as an 'Adventure" or "Adventure-RPG".
The Dr. Brain series went from Puzzle-Adventures and went pure 'puzzle'.
Gabriel Knight 3, went 3D, and added alot of time specific puzzles (easily miss half the game, if you aren't in the right place at the right time)...
Police Quest series turned into RTS (PQ:SWAT2), and finally FPS (but ultimately started dropping "Police Quest" from the title)!
Quite a few classicaly 2-D games went into the realm of 3-D with often mixed results...
Ultima XI almost completely changed directions in style from previous games, when it went 3D. Becoming more of a platformer RPG...
Mario 64 is very different than 2D marios...
3D Castlevanias are very different than their 2D counterparts...
You could go on and on... The rise of 3D had a huge influence on the direction of games...
Hey that's fine that's your opinion. I enjoyed KQ2VGA+ , it reminded me of KQ6 but I can see why you'd disagree with the changes. My biggest problem with KQ2 was the manual led you to beleive that Hagatha would play a big role in the game, but all we get is stealing a bird and we're done with her. i remember hearing that the manual design and game development didn't hook up and get their stories straight but it sure left a disappointing feeling for me when I was playing the game.
You also have a final showdown with Hagatha at the end of the game in KQ2+. She was a huge part of the story, though, and had a lot of presence in the game, even if most of it was in cutscenes. Still counts in my opinion. How much did you actually interact with Alhazred in KQ6? Or Mordack in KQ5?
The official collection "King's Quest 7+8", includes "King's Quest VIII", developed by Sierra, published by Activision, released through GOG.com services;
The backgrounds are actually pretty old... They go back to old magazine advertisements and the KQ8 Theme Pack (IIRC)...
GoG apparently formatted them into higher res backgrounds though.
Activision must have given them the masters though...
Also GOG has said in the past when questioned, why they didn't release all the SQ or KQ games in one collection, that the publishers themselves decide on the collections (GOG just releases them). That is also one of the reasons why they haven't been able to get permission to include some of the 'expansion' material to some games, such as Privateer. They had to get special permission from the creators of Broken Sword to continue including the originals versions of BS1 and 2 as bonuses, when they added the special editions.
Some series aren't even sold in collections, and sold individually.
Apparently the publishers also have impact on the decision for pricing as well... Which is why some games cost $10 or more...
So basically the companies decide on the collections (or even to release the games individually), and the pricing... I guess it allows the companies to make a little extra on the royalties...
Although I think some of Ken's personal reliability is thrown out the window, when he calls The Silver Lining, King's Quest IX, and lists it as the next game in the series (though to give benefit of the doubt, its possible that someone else maintains his website, he just has put his name on it, but hasn't actually looked at all the content). Though within the forums, he does short hand to KQ8, or use King's Quest 8 quite a bit. What little I've looked through the archives.
Now if you go back to the primary sources (as credible historians do), the original material made during development and little after, from around circa (1995-1999), such as Roberta Williams interviews, as well as Interaction magazine, the various King's Quest Collections, some of the Sierra catalogs, you also find that Roberta Williams consistently called it King's Quest VII or King's Quest 8. The box itself and manual inside that box, also pointed out that it was the eigth game in the series. The manual even included one of those 'what came before' type sections, covering the history up to the events up to the 'current' game. Even the official Hintbook, called it King's Quest 8 as well...
It's kind of like Quest for Glory: Shadows of Darkness, or Police Quest: Open Season, all of the promotional stuff called them QFG4 and PQ4 respectively, but the actual title screens/boxes left off that title! But you could certainly find references pointing out that they were the 4th game in each of their series!
Even PQ promotional material for PQ:Swat and PQ:Swat 2 called those games PQ5 and PQ6 in all promotional material as well.
It wasn't until SWAT3 that they dropped PQ out of all the promotional material. Although they were retroactively put back into the Police Quest series in certain Sierra collections. Such as the Police Quest: SWAT Generation collection (came with SWAT, SWAT2, and SWAT3).
Also, here is another weird example from Activision! Modern Warfare 2, is called Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 on the box! But the title screens and ingame, make no reference to Call of Duty (at least it was that way on initial release)... Instead, the title screen just says Modern Warfare 2.
It's actually called the SWAT Career Pack and it comes with the 4 Most Wanted, SWAT 1, SWAT 2, and a demos of SWAT 3 and GK3. Still have the box.
There was that whole ordeal with the executives at Infinity Ward getting axed by ActiVision for no good reason and they fought back with what was in their contracts. Something about any Call of Duty game that was made in modern times? Or maybe only specifically before modern times...I can't remember. Could be part of the reason. At any rate, Modern Warfare has almost become its own franchise now and doesn't need the COD label.
It's actually called the SWAT Career Pack and it comes with the 4 Most Wanted, SWAT 1, SWAT 2, and a demos of SWAT 3 and GK3. Still have the box.
Nah, I'm speaking of a completely different collection, "Police Quest: SWAT Generation". IT was a 2003 release or so...
Modern Warfare has almost become its own franchise now and doesn't need the COD label.
I kinda agree, except that uses one or two characters who are related to characters from the previous series to link them together.
With the third game, they went back to huge ol "Call of Duty", and called it "Call of Duty: MW3" on the box and title screen (abbreviating the Modern Warfare subtitle).
Comments
Bt
There was also a sense of urgency and sneaking around I liked.. It felt like I was going to get caught at any second..
I know now years later there isn't much to the game but I get nostalgic about it when I play.
So yeah... that is why it rated so high on my list.
It doesn't have much replay value, and the spell system is kinda tedious... As is the 'travel up the mountain' between the sorcerer's trips... I tend to go to take out Manannan first thing, to avoid any of that problem, when I play the game now (at least limits the amount of times I need to head up and down the mountain)...
Waiting for events is another tedious aspect of the game... The whole ship sequence for example takes a long time, to reach the other land... You also have to wait for the random rat conversation (if you want to get the treasure chest and full points) which can take quite a bit of time, and restories (if you are unlucky).
I already mentioned that the puzzles aren't that compelling, since the manual more or less tells you what items you need, and what those items are used for.
But its seriously not one of the games I go back to play over and over that much due to its limitations and flaws.... It's a very slow and tedious game... It didn't age well...
How does Infamous Adventure's Klytos describe games (and there continued appeal)? Floaters, sinkers, and growers?
I'd add the term, 'shrinker'... KQ3, is one that 'shrinks' with repeated play throughs imo...
1. Too cutesy: Don't get me wrong. I love cutesy stuff. King's Quest 1-6 had plenty of cutesy stuff. But none of it was overdone, over the top cutesy. Fairy-tales are dark and dreary, as well as cute. Three had cute elements like the three bears, but it also had very dark elements, child slavery. Two had a Hagatha, a cannibal. Six had cute elements like the Isle of Wonders and the garden, but it also had dark elements like the Isle of the Dead and murder.
2. Lame Villain: Malicia is an awful villain. She's like something from a Saturday morning cartoon. Let's look at five. Five had Mordack, someone you didn't want to mess with, one scary wizard with a vendetta. Six had Abdul Allhazarad, a treacherous advisor who had murdered the king and queen so as to wed the princess and then possibly kill her off. Four had Lolita, another nasty villainess who had Rosella do her evil bidding and terrorized Genesta. Three had Manannan, a wizard who kidnapped children, made them into slaves, and then killed them when they reached eighteen.
3. Rosella the brat: What happened to the Rosella I loved in King's Quest IV, who saved Tamir and her father? She's been made into a valley-girl, a whiny brat! When she talks she gives me a migraine. Her bad Sound-of-Music like song at the beginning doesn't help either. Except, Sound of Music was actually good.
4. Too cartoony: The previous games had somewhat of a cartoon feel, but more in a serious nature. Their graphics made the fairy tale lands feel a bit enchanted and magical. This game is more like a bad rendition of Disney.
There you have it. Mask of Eternity isn't that great, and is one of my least favorites. But I'm a little bewildered at the people who praise Princeless Bride so much. It's really not that great of a game, and, if I may be frank, a disgrace to the previous King's Quest games.
Like MOE?
MoE though is not an adventure game. It's a 3D-action-platformer. It's a spin-off.
I take issue with acceptance of it as a core title when it's really not. Now, it could have been a core title, if the series had continued further in the same or another style/genre of gameplay, but as it stands MoE is the only title that is not a point & click (or parser) adventure game. Thus, it stands out on its own, with its own style being widely dissimilar from the other games.
KQ7, on the other hand, I ALWAYS hated. I don't play it because it makes me want to claw my own throat out. It's just so horrible in every way.
Case in point:
Lambo's just very passionate about what he doesn't like. You should see when he likes something, though. If you're standing near him, you're going to be covered in all kinds of spittle and foam.
Bt
I was also purposefully exaggerating for humor effect.
This is 'bull''. Roberta Williams designed it to be King's Quest 8 from the getgo... It was never intended to be a 'spinoff'. She also intended it to evolve out of the limitations of a simple 'Adventure Game"...
You have to remember, KQ7 her previous game had gotten terrible reviews in the industry, many who stated it was 'outdated', and lacked 'innovation'. Some reviewers werent' fond of the art style (although in general that was probably its most 'positive' attribute according to most of the press), and others thought the story overly too 'cute' and/or was dry... Many reviewers went as far to say that Roberta should have just ended when she was ahead (KQ6 and Phantasmagoria as there examples), and not bothered to make KQ7... In anycase it wasn't particularly well received by the industry...
She was living in a period when Adventure game industry was failing, because people wanted more... So she wanted to make a game that combined elements that were successfull at the industry at the time, along with her classic adventure game ideas... KQ8 was that game...
The problem is she started with action (because she had little experience with that) before she got to developing puzzles... Due to techonoglical issues, funding, and internal problems with Sierra's new owners (one guy didn't want Roberta to make the game, thinking her game was 'violent and satanic'...), she never truly got into the level of puzzles that it probably would have had... It never looked as good as she wanted it to look... It didnt' have the number of boss enemies she wanted it to have...
More detailed history here;
http://kingsquest.wikia.com/wiki/KQ8_development
Roberta's only other alternative at the time, was probably just let KQ7 be the last game... and let the series die...
Incidently, she was somewhat successful on pleasing the industry, as KQ8 received overly positive reviews... People were already asking when she was going to make KQ9... However, it wasn't good enough for the owners of Sierra themselves...
The story in KQ2 is simple, but compared to other games of its time, it actually was quite innovative... It pushed what games were capable of doing at that time...
Actually compare KQ1AGI to KQ2, and you'll see that KQ1 was by the more the most simple of the early games... KQ2 added more or less linear plot/development (via the door), and introduction movie... KQ1 original didn't really have an intro, and pretty much set the player to randomly explore and solve things... KQ2 is also about twice as large as KQ1 in amount of content, and puzzles.
BTW, I think that KQ2RTS story is crap... It's too gimmicky, changes the story from the original too much... It does many of the same things that The Silver Lining did to the series... Fanfictiony stuff, like 1000 year prophecies, Black Cloak Society tied into everything... The angsty dramatic stuff... But eh I've discussed this in other threads ad nauseum... I won't go much further... I'm serious glad its only fan fiction...
Use this, and you'll get all the Voodoo effects again;
http://www.zeckensack.de/glide/
BTW, I actually find KQ8 to be one of my favorite games in the series... Although I don't really have a 'single favorite'... That's tough, I pretty much like KQ5, KQ6, KQ8, and KQ2 equally...
KQ4 and KQ1SCI are close too...
KQ1AGI is probably my third least favorite after KQ3 and KQ7 (but that's only because art style isn't near as defined as later games in the series)... But its a 'Graham' game, and it has better puzzles than KQ3... So I give it higher marks...
Whether she intended it to be a spin-off, it still very much feels like one.
The first seven games in the series use the same type of fixed-point camera angle, star members of the same family, and in general could be considered prime examples of a graphic adventure game. Combat in these cases is relegated simply to sequences of puzzles of a sort. MoE is the only game to be so removed from the style of the rest of the KQ games. Whether or not it's considered a good game, it's still a very different game.
EDIT: And I'm not about to excuse Roberta for kowtowing to "marketplace realities."
See that big number 8 in the title? Ya, that's because it is the 8th game in a series.
Not King's Quest 8.
Bt
Yeah, as Bt said--Sierra acknowledged how different it was and essentially established it officially as a spin-off by removing the number from the title. It is only numbered in the European release, I believe. And you know what they say about Europeans.
And Sierra On-Line was a US based company.
Hey that's fine that's your opinion. I enjoyed KQ2VGA+ , it reminded me of KQ6 but I can see why you'd disagree with the changes. My biggest problem with KQ2 was the manual led you to beleive that Hagatha would play a big role in the game, but all we get is stealing a bird and we're done with her. i remember hearing that the manual design and game development didn't hook up and get their stories straight but it sure left a disappointing feeling for me when I was playing the game.
Roberta Williams created the game, the manual was written by Annette Childs.
Annette Childs also went on to write the manual story for KQ3 as well.
I've tried to do some research on her, and I'm not sure if she was a Sierra employee or a third party professional writer... She wrote a few manuals for other companies as well, but that could be after she 'left' Sierra.
In anycase back KQ2, this meant that Roberta focused more on Dracula as the game's uber villain...
Whereas Annetted focused on Hagatha...
Oddly enough, Roberta kinda did the same thing when she wrote the second story prologue for KQ1! Where she made the Witch, Wizard, and Dwarf somewhat more important to the game's backstory, but in original game they were not nearly that important...!
A few discrepencies exist between that second version of the prologue story and the KQ1AGI as well! For example, in KQ1AGI, Edward makes a point that the treasures were legendary treasures 'he's heard of'... Whereas Roberta's updated prologue story, made the treasures out to be 'treasures stolen from Edward"!
Actually, the number was removed (although Roberta in articles and interviews still called it King's Quest 8, she and Ken still do!) not because they 'considered' it a spinoff but because they didn't want new players to feel they needed to play previous games in the series to enjoy it. Roberta always called it KQ8 in her personal correspondance, even after the game's release. Early versions of the American release also contained a gold foil emblem that called it the 'eigth game in the King's Quest series' as well.
Keep in mind that around that time quite a few games were droppign their sequel numbers! Previously there was Quest for Glory: Shadows of Darkness (not called QFG4 on the packaging or in game)!
There was Police Quest: Open Season (not called PQ4 on the title screen or packaging).
There was Lost Secret of the Rainforest (didn't even bother to list the fact it was the sequel to EcoQuest).
The Beast Within (didn't even number itself, although there was a note it was a 'Gabriel Knight Mystery').
Leisure Suity Larry 2 isn't called Larry 2...
The Dr. Brain games never bothered to number their games at all. The Dagger of Amon Ra, didn't bother to number the game at all (although Roberta referred to it as LB2)!
Btw, Did you know Roberta nearly dropped the number from KQ7 as well (probably for the same reasons, not force new players into thinking they had to buy previous games in the series to enjoy them)!
This is true... Besides if Roberta had truly wanted to distance it from KQ as a 'spinoff' (which as we know she didn't), she could have dropped the "King's Quest" (from the title altogether).
BTW, the King's Quest wasn't the only series of that era, that change directions to survive the decline of adventure game genre... Adding new features, or moving in a different direction for series! To the chagrin of some of the old fans...
Look at Broken Sword 3 which consists primarily of box puzzles, stealth gameplay, and timed action sequences! With next to no regular adventure inventory puzzles!
Quest for Glory V, dropped the adventure aspects, and went straight action-RPG! It was no longer advertised as an 'Adventure" or "Adventure-RPG".
The Dr. Brain series went from Puzzle-Adventures and went pure 'puzzle'.
Gabriel Knight 3, went 3D, and added alot of time specific puzzles (easily miss half the game, if you aren't in the right place at the right time)...
Police Quest series turned into RTS (PQ:SWAT2), and finally FPS (but ultimately started dropping "Police Quest" from the title)!
Quite a few classicaly 2-D games went into the realm of 3-D with often mixed results...
Ultima XI almost completely changed directions in style from previous games, when it went 3D. Becoming more of a platformer RPG...
Mario 64 is very different than 2D marios...
3D Castlevanias are very different than their 2D counterparts...
You could go on and on... The rise of 3D had a huge influence on the direction of games...
You also have a final showdown with Hagatha at the end of the game in KQ2+. She was a huge part of the story, though, and had a lot of presence in the game, even if most of it was in cutscenes. Still counts in my opinion. How much did you actually interact with Alhazred in KQ6? Or Mordack in KQ5?
I wasn't talking about KQ2+, and I don't count KQ2+....
I was speaking about KQ2:Romancing the Throne (aka KQ2 by Roberta Williams)
Is it 8 or 9??? THIS IS A BIG DEAL.
Bt
The official collection "King's Quest 7+8", includes "King's Quest VIII", developed by Sierra, published by Activision, released through GOG.com services;
Bt
GoG apparently formatted them into higher res backgrounds though.
Activision must have given them the masters though...
Also GOG has said in the past when questioned, why they didn't release all the SQ or KQ games in one collection, that the publishers themselves decide on the collections (GOG just releases them). That is also one of the reasons why they haven't been able to get permission to include some of the 'expansion' material to some games, such as Privateer. They had to get special permission from the creators of Broken Sword to continue including the originals versions of BS1 and 2 as bonuses, when they added the special editions.
Some series aren't even sold in collections, and sold individually.
Apparently the publishers also have impact on the decision for pricing as well... Which is why some games cost $10 or more...
So basically the companies decide on the collections (or even to release the games individually), and the pricing... I guess it allows the companies to make a little extra on the royalties...
Here is Ken Williams own website;
http://www.sierragamers.com/aspx/m/577672
Although I think some of Ken's personal reliability is thrown out the window, when he calls The Silver Lining, King's Quest IX, and lists it as the next game in the series (though to give benefit of the doubt, its possible that someone else maintains his website, he just has put his name on it, but hasn't actually looked at all the content). Though within the forums, he does short hand to KQ8, or use King's Quest 8 quite a bit. What little I've looked through the archives.
Mark Seibert, the co-producer of KQ8 also calls the game King's Quest VIII;
http://www.markseibert.com/music.htm
Now if you go back to the primary sources (as credible historians do), the original material made during development and little after, from around circa (1995-1999), such as Roberta Williams interviews, as well as Interaction magazine, the various King's Quest Collections, some of the Sierra catalogs, you also find that Roberta Williams consistently called it King's Quest VII or King's Quest 8. The box itself and manual inside that box, also pointed out that it was the eigth game in the series. The manual even included one of those 'what came before' type sections, covering the history up to the events up to the 'current' game. Even the official Hintbook, called it King's Quest 8 as well...
It's kind of like Quest for Glory: Shadows of Darkness, or Police Quest: Open Season, all of the promotional stuff called them QFG4 and PQ4 respectively, but the actual title screens/boxes left off that title! But you could certainly find references pointing out that they were the 4th game in each of their series!
Even PQ promotional material for PQ:Swat and PQ:Swat 2 called those games PQ5 and PQ6 in all promotional material as well.
It wasn't until SWAT3 that they dropped PQ out of all the promotional material. Although they were retroactively put back into the Police Quest series in certain Sierra collections. Such as the Police Quest: SWAT Generation collection (came with SWAT, SWAT2, and SWAT3).
Also, here is another weird example from Activision! Modern Warfare 2, is called Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 on the box! But the title screens and ingame, make no reference to Call of Duty (at least it was that way on initial release)... Instead, the title screen just says Modern Warfare 2.
Marketing and promotion are often complicated...
There was that whole ordeal with the executives at Infinity Ward getting axed by ActiVision for no good reason and they fought back with what was in their contracts. Something about any Call of Duty game that was made in modern times? Or maybe only specifically before modern times...I can't remember. Could be part of the reason. At any rate, Modern Warfare has almost become its own franchise now and doesn't need the COD label.
Nah, I'm speaking of a completely different collection, "Police Quest: SWAT Generation". IT was a 2003 release or so...
I kinda agree, except that uses one or two characters who are related to characters from the previous series to link them together.
With the third game, they went back to huge ol "Call of Duty", and called it "Call of Duty: MW3" on the box and title screen (abbreviating the Modern Warfare subtitle).