I never felt like I was being hammered over the head with it...not the details or comparative analysis with other kinds of fiction.
Let me guess, that describes how you feel about the The Silver Lining?
Would you be surprised, that I find positives and negatives in both games, there are some things I think TSL gets right, other things AGDI gets right, some things both gets right, other things both get wrong?
Actually, I still think Infamous Adventures comes the closest to getting nearly everythign right, and the feel of the series as a whole...
Several of the developers of Infamous Adventures are also critical of the stuff in AGDI and TSL, for the very same reasons I am, and they vowed they don't want to go down that path with their games...
I have not played TSL (beyond the demo of the first chapter). I am not going to play TSL. I have heard about certain plot contrivances and over-dramatizations it creates for the characters, and I don't want to ruin my perceptions of the canon games (further) by coloring them with TSL's backstory.
As for IA's KQ3, the voiceover work is a bit subpar for certain characters, and I dislike clicking after each and every line of dialogue. (Yes, I've heard certain things may be fixed for the next version, but it has not been fixed yet so I maintain my position.)
The only thing I disliked about AGDI's KQ3Redux was that the animation for the green orb was both too lengthy and somewhat silly (in that "pinball" sort of way). They should have just had it float into the sky and radiate a light that fixed everything.
Also, someone should do a KQ4 remake. Someone other than Magic Mirror Games, since their project will likely not finish in the next decade.
I have heard about certain plot contrivances and over-dramatizations it creates for the characters,
Ya, I don't understand why many fan writers and developers do this in their fan games and fan fiction (AGDI and POS included). They tend to make things far more complicated than they need to be... Stretch suspension of disbelief and occam's razor... Create mary and gary stus...
Let me guess, that describes how you feel about the The Silver Lining?
Mmm, that's probably not exactly how I'd describe it. But just as with KQ2+, I could brush aside those parts of the story that seemed wrong to focus on the parts I'd enjoy. And in fact, once away from the royal palace, I had a great time with the adventuring/exploring/puzzle-solving parts of TSL. Except for an odd character and occasional weird narrator thing, it was mostly very KQ-like -- beautiful landscapes, magical goings-on, puzzles diffused in a cohesive mystery, no signposting that detracted from me shaping my own experience, the usual hand-eye-feet modes, cool inventory items, etc. I also liked the moderate use of arcade bits and timed puzzles at the end of the last episode, not exactly KQ-like but fitting and fun.
Nothing in these fan games did -- or could -- change my feelings about the originals. Which is why I don't really have a preference for 1:1 remakes. As long as the producers have a talent for gameplay design, I'm glad to get new locations and change-ups in the puzzles. If they fuck up the story, I'll pretend they didn't and write my own. :cool: (We are talking about games we didn't have to pay for, after all.)
One of the reason I don't like dabbling much in fan-fiction is that it invariably feels foreign or unnatural compared to the original material. Often I'll come away feeling that character y or plot-point x were done poorly, taken out of context, or missing altogether in a way that seems really obvious to someone looking at it from the outside.
Unfortunately, I've also seen this happen to official works when the original creator leaves because then you start getting other peoples ideas that don't always mesh or, as has been said, relies too much on existing modern concepts and ideas. However, the same could also be true if the creator comes back after one or more successful sequels, and claims nothing that happened matched his vision despite feeling seamless and natural. Ala Ron Gilbert and Guybrush marrying Elaine.
I'm really hesitant to go anywhere near some of the fan-sequels or even a few of the fan remakes simply because of all the extra additions or re-imaginings that either come out of nowhere (ancestor/descendant) or rely on very brief, almost throw-away, information that had little to do with the overall plot such as the Black Cloak Society.
That said, I was always kind of curious about the BCS in regards to the previous games, particularly in 5 and 6, and was a bit disappointed they never went anywhere with it.
What fangames did you feel this way about? I'm curious.
Also, the BCS wasn't in KQ5, only KQ6. And it was specifically called "Society of the Black Cloak". In KQ5 Crispin and Mordack were members of the "Society of Wizards", which is moreso a group with good intentions, as alluded to by Crispin saying that Mordack had been "put on suspension" more than a few times.
My memory is probably playing tricks on me, but I could've sworn that there was mention of both Mannanon (or however it's spelled) and Mordack having been working together in KQ5. Something about them being brothers or friends or something.
However, I may also be pulling information from my memories of the Companion's story section, which was really interested and in ways helped me enjoy the experience of playing the games even more. I often would read the stories as I played the games during later replays, and always after I'd finish a game I'd read the book's version of events. I may be thinking of the mention but it was only in the Companion. Or maybe as you say, I'm getting my memories of 5 and 6 a little mixed up.
Canonically Manannan is Mordack's older brother. I was pointing out that the Companion stated that Hagatha was the third sibling, when in fact she isn't.
In Sierra's canon, Hagatha is also Manannan and Mordack's sister. See Sierra's 15th Anniversary King's Quest Collection and King's Questions (including input by Josh Mandel and Mike Hutchinson)...
Roberta just forgot that detail (after she left the company)... Even though she collaborated on them nearly a decade and a half before on many of those ideas (with Peter Spear and others)... Like she forgot about the Society of the Black Cloak, and never got back to using it... She has admitted that she very rarely looked back at older material, and mainly focused on her present ideas... That's why we have several examples where she forgot about some of the stuff she worked on in the past, and only cared about her present work.
Right now she's apparently more focused on research for a book she is writing on Irish family history (IIRC), than looking back at anything in her Sierra years.
Also since Roberta no longer owns the series, she has little control over what goes on it, what ever Activison decides to do with the series now becomes the 'canon'...
However, to be fair Sierra never really used terms like 'canon', neither did Roberta... The used terms like "authorized", "official", or endorsments such as good place to learn more about universe in "greater depth and detail".
Canon is more of a fan speculation if anything... Hell there are people who try to force and claim that fan games are 'canon'....
Actually I think a few sources might have said Mordack is Manannan's older brother... Although he looks younger ...
I'm not sure KQ5 ever really specified on their ages... Neither did the King's Quest Companion... Just some of those advertisements for the game in Interaction, IIRC...
There are several sources that state Mordack is the more powerful wizard...
Actually it might be AGDI that first 'assumed' that Manannan is the 'older brother' in their fan games.
Heh the only Metroid game I have a problem with is Other M and mainly my issue with that game is the length - easily the shortest Metroid game I've ever played. When it ended I was totally and completely shocked at how quickly it was over. I thought it was like 1/3 of the way done and the credits were ready to roll. I wasn't happy about that.
I don't know, it seemed shorter than the Prime series, but I think it was quite a bit longer than most of the early Metroid games, that were designed to be beaten quickly (3 hours or less)...
Also if you saw the initial credits, that isn't even the entire game, they make you go back in to get the final ending...
Kind of strange for Metroid, but it reminded me of epilogue quest in Lunar 2 (that starts past the first credits)...
In anycase, its the initial half of the game that plays more like Fusion, as far as linear travel through the ship...
It isn't until you get into the second half of the game past the first credits, the the game opens up, and becomes more dynamic, allow free roam exploration, to find new hidden areas and challenges. The second half is better.
BTW. Zero Mission and Fusion are probably my least favorite metroid games... Fusion primarily because its short length, and its overal linearity... Zero Mission, because I'm not that big a fan of remakes... I'd rather see new stories... It was also a bit more linear than the original Metroid (though not as much as Fusion)...
Sigh, I hope they bring on a game set after Fusion though... I'm looking forward to be an enemy of the Federation!
In regards to Metroid.. I started to hate what Nintendo was doing when they introduced the Zero Suit. I really don't wanna get sucked into a tirade about that.. I'll just say that it and the general portrayal of Samus started pushing her character downhill in my eyes. Growing up I thought she was a strong female role model (unique in the gaming industry at the time), but now she's just a "dumb blonde" who makes poor decisions (lowering guard in hostile territory, panicking for no reason, frequently taking off her suit) and shows off her stuff in a skin-tight leather suit. As such, MZM is my least favourite game - although the sped-up gameplay style, unnecessary added stuff, and the fact it's a heavy-handed remake didn't help my feelings towards it. Quite unlike Lunar's remakes which were done very well and didn't feel convoluted as pandering to the lowest common denominator.
The irony is that I enjoyed most of the gameplay. Well, except for the Devil's Run that was clearly inspired by non-Varia sections of fangames. I thought that was stupid, and Samus would never do something so reckless if she HAD the damned upgrade to begin with. That's like asking someone to go walk across a mine field but NOT use that mine detector they're carrying.
I actually did like Metroid Prime 1-3, I just wish that 3'd had better writing cause we meet the hunters and then kill them, and there's no reason to feel sad cause we never got to know them.. unlike in say, an RPG, where we develop an understanding or familiarity with the others and feel anguish over having to kill them. The other problem I have with Prime is I can't replay them very well. I just never feel like its worth it, but that could be cause I'm not keen on FPS games in general and don't like missing scans.
But Other M? Oh gods.. Fusion was my second favourite game in the series after Super; I liked it for a lot of reasons, and didn't mind the linearity cause I enjoyed the storyline. I can't even play Fusion now without seeing foreshadows of what happened in Other M. Sakamoto has practically raped Samus' character. As for length... eh, I can beat Super Metroid in like 2-3 hours, maybe 5 if I'm going for 100% and don't recall where everything is. So the fact that, if I follow a map for the extra items I don't remember, I can beat Fusion in about 2 hours doesn't bother me so much. It was also a first-gen GBA title and I know they got better with 2-D platformers as time went on. MZM was short cause it was a remake that didn't need to get made and they had to actually add material just to lengthen it out (which wasn't necessary to begin with).
As you say, Baggins, I have been waiting for Nintendo to follow the natural course of the storyline and have Samus go against the Federation - I even attempted to come up with an appropriately fitting/decent storyline called Duality that I did some basic design documents for to keep myself occupied, though I doubt I'll ever do anything with them..
I keep thinking Nintendo is afraid to make Fusion 2 because they're hesitant to make the "military" into the bad guy after saying what nice folks they all are in earlier games. Why else would they keep putting it off and going down alternate routes?
...I'm sorry I.. Metroid is one of those things I get really passionate or easily upset over. I apologize if I'm being rude. Thinking of what Samus has become as a character just drains me mentally and deeply saddens me. I didn't mean to pull the thread off topic.
Early Metroid games were designed to be beaten in 3 hours or less?????? WHAT?
Yes, to get the best endings in early metroid games, in which Samus took her clothes off you had to beat the games fast... It wasn't about 'collecting 100%'.
I don't know if it was an injoke toward's 'fast women'... or not...
In the original the best ending required you to beat the game in under an hour.
In Metroid II, the best ending required you to beat it under 3 hours.
In Super Metroid the best ending required you to beat it under 3 hours.
In Metroid Fusion, the best ending required you to beat it under 3 hours with 100% items.
The best endings in Zero Mission, required beating the games (in normal or hard mode) under 2 hours with 100% items... Alternatively there are a couple of challenge endings, for beating the game with 15% of items or less (more difficult I suppose), but for those endings time was not a factor (although chances are with only 15% of items, you probably will beat the game under 2 hours, as the player isn't actively trying to collect all the secrets which is the time consuming aspect).
Likewise, Castlevania II also mimiced Metroid in that you got best endings by beating the game quickly.
Yeah, that was a challenge to receive a bonus. The games weren't DESIGNED to be beaten that fast. Obviously you need to spend a LOT more than 3 hours to get to that sort of speed! Average playtime would be in the vicinity of a few months at least for new players.
Not even a few months... a few days... I beat the game in about 5-6 hours the first play through, 4 hours in second and 3 in the third... Taking Super Metroid as an example... The idea is not to collect everything in early games (in super metroid going out of your way to collect everything could take about 4-5 hours even if you tried to go quickly), but collect just enough to be able to beat the bosses efficiently. So yes, the time it takes to beat the game once, isn't really all that long... The endings are just superflous extras...
The Metroid Prime Games and Other M on the other hand, are designed for 'completion' to get the best endings (100%). Completion takes much longer... They require about 15-20 hours. Other M about 12-15 or so (counting the second half, which is the only half that allows 100% collection).
I have never had to 'spend a few' months to beat a metroid game... Not unless I busy and stretching my game play to a hour every few weeks...
I never said anything about collecting items. Sometimes you just don't beat the boss the first time through. Especially true of the second Ridley confrontation. Or you get lost. Or you can't figure out a few puzzles. I refuse to believe you can get through Super Metroid on a single playthrough without knowing anything about the game first. If you can you really must have no life. Super Metroid is a BIG game.
I was counting 'total time' played... Convenient little counter the game takes... Of course I don't just sit there and play a game for 8 hours straight.... I take the time to save... Also Super Metroid has a nice little map 'dots' that point out if there is an item in the area to collect. So that helps to figure out where items are collected... That being said I don't think I had more than 90% collection when I beat Super Metroid the first time... I also didn't go automatically back to replaying the game, just after I beat it... That may be a few months later, or even a year... As I often move onto to other games instead...
I don't count the time i'm not playing the game, as 'time it took me to finish the game'... As I wasn't physically playing the game....
If I went by time I wasn't playing the game, it actually took me 2.5 months to finish Other M, because I was very busy...
Seriously Super Metroid isn't that difficult of a game, there was no reason for me to 'restart'... I did beat it the first time through, after many save periods... I beat it within a week or two of play... I remember renting it... The last boss isn't that difficult...
yes, there is one problem with 'total time played'. It doesn't count the times, you die, and have to reload... I'd say that probably add a couple of hours more...
How long did it take me to beat Other M? Maybe two days?
As for games like Super Metroid and Fusion? It certainly didn't take me months to get to the point where I could beat it very quickly. In fact my first time playing/beating it was under 6 hours with less than 100%, which was actually faster than the time I first took beating Fusion.
Insofar as a game like Metroid is concerned, it is the game that pretty much created the speedrun, at least Super Metroid, anyways. Also, I never really had an issue with Samus removing her suit if you beat it super fast, it was when it became part of the storyline and she'd be taking it off constantly (and at terrible times) that I really began to dislike it. I also think the Zero Suit's design is abysmal and they could've done a lot better.
But really, Super Metroid and Fusion are the only games I really "speedrun". In fact, it's something I enjoy immensely. There's no storyline, just pure action.
I can't stand the fusion suit either... It's basically the zero suit with a helmet, and a couple of hard pieces stuck on... I never liked the visual look, more gaunt zombie than intimidating...
She's about as near as weak as she is in the Zero suit... But still has her weapons...
I really liked Zero Mission. But it was way too easy. Incredibly fun to sequence break, from what I hear though. I don't like sequence breaking myself so I don't do it.
Truth be told Zero Mission is probably next favorite after the list above... It has the old school metroid feel (full-exploratory feel), although its slightly more linear...
I didn't particularly like the art style though... One of the things I liked about Super Metroid, was that Gunpei Yokoi (may he rest in peace) made the decisoin to essential go with artwork that had 'retro' feel. Zebus though fully updated with beautiful backgrounds, the geography was certainly inspired by the geography from the first game... The same types of rocks and bricks... There were certain key landmarks in Super Metroid that were taken directly from the original! New areas tended to be more organic and natural looking though. Grass and soil, etc...
It took the 8bit artwork and updated it to 16bit! There were all those little nods to specific locations linking the two games together!
Zero Mission went for an entire update going for a more comic book art style, with planet scape that looked nothing like either the original or Super Metroid... More like Fusion. With geography I suppose was more realistic, but less alien looking... Solid rock, more sand/soil, instead of the 'brick/constructed' look.
The map was pretty much redesigned, and many of the landmarks from the original game were replaced with new landmarks (some original and some inspired by Super Metroid). But doesn't have nearly the same impact as the direct links they made between Metroid and Super Metroid. As there aren't many places that still look anything like their counterparts in the original games.
I suppose I just enjoyed the novelity of Gunpei Yokoi's chosen art direction, and the intentional updated 'retro' feel, as opposed to later designers take on world of Zebes...
Still it was a fun game... For what it was! It's definitetly one of the more replayable games in the series for a quick game... Because as far as gameplay feel its closer to the original/super metroid in feel.
Yes, it was too easy!
But I'll tell you one thing, I unlocked the original Metroid in the game, and had way more fun replaying it through on a portable system than the Zero Mission part of the game itself!
And actually, Zelda apparently officially has 3 timelines now.
NO. Don't say that. Never say that again. ever.
The games are canon. The manuals are canon (which I include because of the "Gannon" typo in the LOZ intro.)
That's it. Strategy guides don't count, convoluted story books (made long after the fact and not written by the original writers of the involved games) don't count. Said book may be licensed by Nintendo but that doesn't mean the ones who authorized the license for the book actually read--or had any involvement in writing--the material in question.
Call it authorized fan-fiction, but it's still fan-fiction, and therefore inherently false.
The games are canon. The manuals are canon (which I include because of the "Gannon" typo in the LOZ intro.)
Nintendo themselves released a zelda timeline to rectify all the games and provide some idea of where skyward sword fit in.
here we go again with Chyron deciding he doesn't like something, and even if the creator deems it so, he lives in his own universe. :rolleyes:
And as far as metroid goes... does it matter what suit your wearing? The games are all identical. Get bomb, get rocket, get sticky ball, etc etc etc. Everytime you get a new item, backtrack to the door you couldn't get through before. Continue until completion. They are fun games and some of them have remarkable art styles, but the gameplay itself is about as predictable as it gets.
And as far as metroid goes... does it matter what suit your wearing? The games are all identical. Get bomb, get rocket, get sticky ball, etc etc etc. Everytime you get a new item, backtrack to the door you couldn't get through before. Continue until completion. They are fun games and some of them have remarkable art styles, but the gameplay itself is about as predictable as it gets.
Still though, it's always been great enough to be REALLY compelling. Sure, there's a formulaic quality to it, but that formula has to then be APPLIED to an interesting and varied world that is fun to explore and at least FEELS like it has tons of secrets to uncover. It's that sense of exploration and getting lost in the world that is the essence that makes Metroid games awesome, not so much the "get item/backtrack/advance/get next item" formula.
I wouldn't say the Metroid games have suffered NEARLY as much because of the formula as Zelda games have.
here we go again with Chyron deciding he doesn't like something, and even if the creator deems it so, he lives in his own universe. :rolleyes:
1) George Lucas is an idiot and is ruining Star Wars. He may have the legal right to ruin Star Wars, but I don't have to be happy about it or accept it.
2) There is no cutscene, plot device nor any other element of OOT that requires the player to watch Link die. There is no game in which it is said "...after the defeat of the Hero of Time..." or any other such similar thing. His death is assumed and plays no part in any other game's story besides as a dumb way to explain the full Triforce being encountered at the end of LTTP.
Nintendo themselves released a zelda timeline to rectify all the games and provide some idea of where skyward sword fit in.
Did you miss the part where I said: "said book may be licensed by Nintendo but that doesn't mean the ones who authorized the license for the book actually read--or had any involvement in writing--the material in question. Call it authorized fan-fiction, but it's still fan-fiction, and therefore inherently false."
Whoever wrote that book and drew that diagram is no more guessing at how the games fit than any fan might. The fact that someone at Nintendo gave them the license to draw the diagram doesn't mean that whoever made it knows what the hell they're talking about, especially when they're assuming something that hasn't happened to me in all of my OOT playthroughs since maybe the first couple of times.
Lucas is now saying that Greedo always shot first, and his edits were just making that more obvious.
“It had been done in all close-ups and it was confusing about who did what to whom,” Lucas told THR. “I put a little wider shot in there that made it clear that Greedo is the one who shot first, but everyone wanted to think that Han shot first, because they wanted to think that he actually just gunned him down.”
Because he did!
Lucas goes on to blame the rest of the world for wanting Han to be a “cold-blooded killer,” thus misinterpreting the film for decades.
Ya, sure Lucas... You just keep lieing to yourself if it makes your goiter happy...
Did you miss the part where I said: "said book may be licensed by Nintendo but that doesn't mean the ones who authorized the license for the book actually read--or had any involvement in writing--the material in question. Call it authorized fan-fiction, but it's still fan-fiction, and therefore inherently false."
Do you realize how friggin idiotic you sound? That is like you saying that KQ8 is "authorized" fan fiction just because you don't like it.
Nintendo is the owner of the Zelda franchise. So your opinion doesn't mean squat compared to what they release. i'm not saying you have to like it, but you are simply delusional if you think you can go around calling officially released materials 'authorized fan fiction".
You seem to live in a world where you create your own rules for things and then you don't understand why others don't agree with your retarded point of view.
Your opinion and whether you like something has absolutely no bearing on how official something is. Can you understand that?
Comments
Would you be surprised, that I find positives and negatives in both games, there are some things I think TSL gets right, other things AGDI gets right, some things both gets right, other things both get wrong?
Actually, I still think Infamous Adventures comes the closest to getting nearly everythign right, and the feel of the series as a whole...
Several of the developers of Infamous Adventures are also critical of the stuff in AGDI and TSL, for the very same reasons I am, and they vowed they don't want to go down that path with their games...
http://www.infamous-adventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=4767.0
http://www.infamous-adventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=4509.0
http://www.infamous-adventures.com/forum/index.php?topic=5125.45
It just seems to be that AGDI went down the path of Gabriel King's Quest: Sins of the Father (pun intended), and TSL was The Beast Within (pun intended)...
As for IA's KQ3, the voiceover work is a bit subpar for certain characters, and I dislike clicking after each and every line of dialogue. (Yes, I've heard certain things may be fixed for the next version, but it has not been fixed yet so I maintain my position.)
The only thing I disliked about AGDI's KQ3Redux was that the animation for the green orb was both too lengthy and somewhat silly (in that "pinball" sort of way). They should have just had it float into the sky and radiate a light that fixed everything.
Also, someone should do a KQ4 remake. Someone other than Magic Mirror Games, since their project will likely not finish in the next decade.
I think think the Magic Mirror games is dead...
Also, many of the issues with IA's KQ3 will be rectified in KQ3 Gold.
Mmm, that's probably not exactly how I'd describe it. But just as with KQ2+, I could brush aside those parts of the story that seemed wrong to focus on the parts I'd enjoy. And in fact, once away from the royal palace, I had a great time with the adventuring/exploring/puzzle-solving parts of TSL. Except for an odd character and occasional weird narrator thing, it was mostly very KQ-like -- beautiful landscapes, magical goings-on, puzzles diffused in a cohesive mystery, no signposting that detracted from me shaping my own experience, the usual hand-eye-feet modes, cool inventory items, etc. I also liked the moderate use of arcade bits and timed puzzles at the end of the last episode, not exactly KQ-like but fitting and fun.
Nothing in these fan games did -- or could -- change my feelings about the originals. Which is why I don't really have a preference for 1:1 remakes. As long as the producers have a talent for gameplay design, I'm glad to get new locations and change-ups in the puzzles. If they fuck up the story, I'll pretend they didn't and write my own. :cool: (We are talking about games we didn't have to pay for, after all.)
Unfortunately, I've also seen this happen to official works when the original creator leaves because then you start getting other peoples ideas that don't always mesh or, as has been said, relies too much on existing modern concepts and ideas. However, the same could also be true if the creator comes back after one or more successful sequels, and claims nothing that happened matched his vision despite feeling seamless and natural. Ala Ron Gilbert and Guybrush marrying Elaine.
I'm really hesitant to go anywhere near some of the fan-sequels or even a few of the fan remakes simply because of all the extra additions or re-imaginings that either come out of nowhere (ancestor/descendant) or rely on very brief, almost throw-away, information that had little to do with the overall plot such as the Black Cloak Society.
That said, I was always kind of curious about the BCS in regards to the previous games, particularly in 5 and 6, and was a bit disappointed they never went anywhere with it.
Also, the BCS wasn't in KQ5, only KQ6. And it was specifically called "Society of the Black Cloak". In KQ5 Crispin and Mordack were members of the "Society of Wizards", which is moreso a group with good intentions, as alluded to by Crispin saying that Mordack had been "put on suspension" more than a few times.
However, I may also be pulling information from my memories of the Companion's story section, which was really interested and in ways helped me enjoy the experience of playing the games even more. I often would read the stories as I played the games during later replays, and always after I'd finish a game I'd read the book's version of events. I may be thinking of the mention but it was only in the Companion. Or maybe as you say, I'm getting my memories of 5 and 6 a little mixed up.
Age has not helped my memory this last year..
Roberta just forgot that detail (after she left the company)... Even though she collaborated on them nearly a decade and a half before on many of those ideas (with Peter Spear and others)... Like she forgot about the Society of the Black Cloak, and never got back to using it... She has admitted that she very rarely looked back at older material, and mainly focused on her present ideas... That's why we have several examples where she forgot about some of the stuff she worked on in the past, and only cared about her present work.
Right now she's apparently more focused on research for a book she is writing on Irish family history (IIRC), than looking back at anything in her Sierra years.
Also since Roberta no longer owns the series, she has little control over what goes on it, what ever Activison decides to do with the series now becomes the 'canon'...
However, to be fair Sierra never really used terms like 'canon', neither did Roberta... The used terms like "authorized", "official", or endorsments such as good place to learn more about universe in "greater depth and detail".
Canon is more of a fan speculation if anything... Hell there are people who try to force and claim that fan games are 'canon'....
Uh, other than the changes to the original story in Metroid Zero Mission remake?
What's bad about them? Metroid Prime series was excellent... I even liked the Other M as far as a fun game (it took quite a bit from Fusion)...
Granted, I don't really play Metroid games for story... I play them in the same reason I play Castlevania, for the action-adventure...
If you want convoluted Nintendo storylines, one only needs to look at Zelda (uh two timelines?) or Mario games (about as convoluted as you can get)...
And actually, Zelda apparently officially has 3 timelines now.
Actually I think a few sources might have said Mordack is Manannan's older brother... Although he looks younger
I'm not sure KQ5 ever really specified on their ages... Neither did the King's Quest Companion... Just some of those advertisements for the game in Interaction, IIRC...
There are several sources that state Mordack is the more powerful wizard...
Actually it might be AGDI that first 'assumed' that Manannan is the 'older brother' in their fan games.
Also if you saw the initial credits, that isn't even the entire game, they make you go back in to get the final ending...
Kind of strange for Metroid, but it reminded me of epilogue quest in Lunar 2 (that starts past the first credits)...
In anycase, its the initial half of the game that plays more like Fusion, as far as linear travel through the ship...
It isn't until you get into the second half of the game past the first credits, the the game opens up, and becomes more dynamic, allow free roam exploration, to find new hidden areas and challenges. The second half is better.
BTW. Zero Mission and Fusion are probably my least favorite metroid games... Fusion primarily because its short length, and its overal linearity... Zero Mission, because I'm not that big a fan of remakes... I'd rather see new stories... It was also a bit more linear than the original Metroid (though not as much as Fusion)...
Sigh, I hope they bring on a game set after Fusion though... I'm looking forward to be an enemy of the Federation!
The irony is that I enjoyed most of the gameplay. Well, except for the Devil's Run that was clearly inspired by non-Varia sections of fangames. I thought that was stupid, and Samus would never do something so reckless if she HAD the damned upgrade to begin with. That's like asking someone to go walk across a mine field but NOT use that mine detector they're carrying.
I actually did like Metroid Prime 1-3, I just wish that 3'd had better writing cause we meet the hunters and then kill them, and there's no reason to feel sad cause we never got to know them.. unlike in say, an RPG, where we develop an understanding or familiarity with the others and feel anguish over having to kill them. The other problem I have with Prime is I can't replay them very well. I just never feel like its worth it, but that could be cause I'm not keen on FPS games in general and don't like missing scans.
But Other M? Oh gods.. Fusion was my second favourite game in the series after Super; I liked it for a lot of reasons, and didn't mind the linearity cause I enjoyed the storyline. I can't even play Fusion now without seeing foreshadows of what happened in Other M. Sakamoto has practically raped Samus' character. As for length... eh, I can beat Super Metroid in like 2-3 hours, maybe 5 if I'm going for 100% and don't recall where everything is. So the fact that, if I follow a map for the extra items I don't remember, I can beat Fusion in about 2 hours doesn't bother me so much. It was also a first-gen GBA title and I know they got better with 2-D platformers as time went on. MZM was short cause it was a remake that didn't need to get made and they had to actually add material just to lengthen it out (which wasn't necessary to begin with).
As you say, Baggins, I have been waiting for Nintendo to follow the natural course of the storyline and have Samus go against the Federation - I even attempted to come up with an appropriately fitting/decent storyline called Duality that I did some basic design documents for to keep myself occupied, though I doubt I'll ever do anything with them..
I keep thinking Nintendo is afraid to make Fusion 2 because they're hesitant to make the "military" into the bad guy after saying what nice folks they all are in earlier games. Why else would they keep putting it off and going down alternate routes?
...I'm sorry I.. Metroid is one of those things I get really passionate or easily upset over. I apologize if I'm being rude. Thinking of what Samus has become as a character just drains me mentally and deeply saddens me. I didn't mean to pull the thread off topic.
Yes, to get the best endings in early metroid games, in which Samus took her clothes off you had to beat the games fast... It wasn't about 'collecting 100%'.
I don't know if it was an injoke toward's 'fast women'... or not...
In the original the best ending required you to beat the game in under an hour.
In Metroid II, the best ending required you to beat it under 3 hours.
In Super Metroid the best ending required you to beat it under 3 hours.
In Metroid Fusion, the best ending required you to beat it under 3 hours with 100% items.
The best endings in Zero Mission, required beating the games (in normal or hard mode) under 2 hours with 100% items... Alternatively there are a couple of challenge endings, for beating the game with 15% of items or less (more difficult I suppose), but for those endings time was not a factor (although chances are with only 15% of items, you probably will beat the game under 2 hours, as the player isn't actively trying to collect all the secrets which is the time consuming aspect).
Likewise, Castlevania II also mimiced Metroid in that you got best endings by beating the game quickly.
The Metroid Prime Games and Other M on the other hand, are designed for 'completion' to get the best endings (100%). Completion takes much longer... They require about 15-20 hours. Other M about 12-15 or so (counting the second half, which is the only half that allows 100% collection).
I have never had to 'spend a few' months to beat a metroid game... Not unless I busy and stretching my game play to a hour every few weeks...
I don't count the time i'm not playing the game, as 'time it took me to finish the game'... As I wasn't physically playing the game....
If I went by time I wasn't playing the game, it actually took me 2.5 months to finish Other M, because I was very busy...
Seriously Super Metroid isn't that difficult of a game, there was no reason for me to 'restart'... I did beat it the first time through, after many save periods... I beat it within a week or two of play... I remember renting it... The last boss isn't that difficult...
yes, there is one problem with 'total time played'. It doesn't count the times, you die, and have to reload... I'd say that probably add a couple of hours more...
I surely had my share of deaths in Other M...
As for games like Super Metroid and Fusion? It certainly didn't take me months to get to the point where I could beat it very quickly. In fact my first time playing/beating it was under 6 hours with less than 100%, which was actually faster than the time I first took beating Fusion.
Insofar as a game like Metroid is concerned, it is the game that pretty much created the speedrun, at least Super Metroid, anyways. Also, I never really had an issue with Samus removing her suit if you beat it super fast, it was when it became part of the storyline and she'd be taking it off constantly (and at terrible times) that I really began to dislike it. I also think the Zero Suit's design is abysmal and they could've done a lot better.
But really, Super Metroid and Fusion are the only games I really "speedrun". In fact, it's something I enjoy immensely. There's no storyline, just pure action.
She's about as near as weak as she is in the Zero suit... But still has her weapons...
I just consider to be on one of the weaker entries...
Super Metroid is my favorite, followed closely by the Prime games (especially the first two), and then the original...
I didn't particularly like the art style though... One of the things I liked about Super Metroid, was that Gunpei Yokoi (may he rest in peace) made the decisoin to essential go with artwork that had 'retro' feel. Zebus though fully updated with beautiful backgrounds, the geography was certainly inspired by the geography from the first game... The same types of rocks and bricks... There were certain key landmarks in Super Metroid that were taken directly from the original! New areas tended to be more organic and natural looking though. Grass and soil, etc...
It took the 8bit artwork and updated it to 16bit! There were all those little nods to specific locations linking the two games together!
Zero Mission went for an entire update going for a more comic book art style, with planet scape that looked nothing like either the original or Super Metroid... More like Fusion. With geography I suppose was more realistic, but less alien looking... Solid rock, more sand/soil, instead of the 'brick/constructed' look.
The map was pretty much redesigned, and many of the landmarks from the original game were replaced with new landmarks (some original and some inspired by Super Metroid). But doesn't have nearly the same impact as the direct links they made between Metroid and Super Metroid. As there aren't many places that still look anything like their counterparts in the original games.
I suppose I just enjoyed the novelity of Gunpei Yokoi's chosen art direction, and the intentional updated 'retro' feel, as opposed to later designers take on world of Zebes...
Still it was a fun game... For what it was! It's definitetly one of the more replayable games in the series for a quick game... Because as far as gameplay feel its closer to the original/super metroid in feel.
Yes, it was too easy!
But I'll tell you one thing, I unlocked the original Metroid in the game, and had way more fun replaying it through on a portable system than the Zero Mission part of the game itself!
NO. Don't say that. Never say that again. ever.
The games are canon. The manuals are canon (which I include because of the "Gannon" typo in the LOZ intro.)
That's it. Strategy guides don't count, convoluted story books (made long after the fact and not written by the original writers of the involved games) don't count. Said book may be licensed by Nintendo but that doesn't mean the ones who authorized the license for the book actually read--or had any involvement in writing--the material in question.
Call it authorized fan-fiction, but it's still fan-fiction, and therefore inherently false.
Case in point, the placement of LTTP in the timeline was different in Japan than in American translations, IIRC...
But seriously, I think we are going way off topic!
Nintendo themselves released a zelda timeline to rectify all the games and provide some idea of where skyward sword fit in.
here we go again with Chyron deciding he doesn't like something, and even if the creator deems it so, he lives in his own universe. :rolleyes:
And as far as metroid goes... does it matter what suit your wearing? The games are all identical. Get bomb, get rocket, get sticky ball, etc etc etc. Everytime you get a new item, backtrack to the door you couldn't get through before. Continue until completion. They are fun games and some of them have remarkable art styles, but the gameplay itself is about as predictable as it gets.
Still though, it's always been great enough to be REALLY compelling. Sure, there's a formulaic quality to it, but that formula has to then be APPLIED to an interesting and varied world that is fun to explore and at least FEELS like it has tons of secrets to uncover. It's that sense of exploration and getting lost in the world that is the essence that makes Metroid games awesome, not so much the "get item/backtrack/advance/get next item" formula.
I wouldn't say the Metroid games have suffered NEARLY as much because of the formula as Zelda games have.
1) George Lucas is an idiot and is ruining Star Wars. He may have the legal right to ruin Star Wars, but I don't have to be happy about it or accept it.
2) There is no cutscene, plot device nor any other element of OOT that requires the player to watch Link die. There is no game in which it is said "...after the defeat of the Hero of Time..." or any other such similar thing. His death is assumed and plays no part in any other game's story besides as a dumb way to explain the full Triforce being encountered at the end of LTTP.
Did you miss the part where I said: "said book may be licensed by Nintendo but that doesn't mean the ones who authorized the license for the book actually read--or had any involvement in writing--the material in question. Call it authorized fan-fiction, but it's still fan-fiction, and therefore inherently false."
Whoever wrote that book and drew that diagram is no more guessing at how the games fit than any fan might. The fact that someone at Nintendo gave them the license to draw the diagram doesn't mean that whoever made it knows what the hell they're talking about, especially when they're assuming something that hasn't happened to me in all of my OOT playthroughs since maybe the first couple of times.
Ya, sure Lucas... You just keep lieing to yourself if it makes your goiter happy...
Do you realize how friggin idiotic you sound? That is like you saying that KQ8 is "authorized" fan fiction just because you don't like it.
Nintendo is the owner of the Zelda franchise. So your opinion doesn't mean squat compared to what they release. i'm not saying you have to like it, but you are simply delusional if you think you can go around calling officially released materials 'authorized fan fiction".
You seem to live in a world where you create your own rules for things and then you don't understand why others don't agree with your retarded point of view.
Your opinion and whether you like something has absolutely no bearing on how official something is. Can you understand that?