Do not underestimate the value of a good shot! (spoilers)

edited May 2012 in The Walking Dead
There are some spoilers in this post, I should warn of that first.

I see a lot of people making a big mistake and choosing Doug over Carly. I believe most people do not understand how much practice and time goes into becoming highly proficient with a firearm. You can't just learn overnight, or even over a few weeks, how to fire that quickly and with the amazing degree of accuracy while under stress like Carly can.

From personal experience - It takes many thousands of rounds and hundreds of hours of practice to become that good with a firearm. Now realize what situation you are in. Do you really expect to come upon caches of perhaps a few hundred thousand rounds of ammunition to practice with? And when are you going to spend the hundreds of hours of range time it would take to get proficient enough to get snap headshots reliably while under stressful situations like Carly can?

Also consider how often are you going to run into places with working electricity and the type of equipment which Doug is skilled in. Do you expect to see that sort of thing often? How much will it save your life? Now consider how often an expert pistol shooter will be useful and how many times that will save your life.

During the course of the first episode Carly saved the main characters life and several other party members Twice! And Carly was useful 4 times if you count the pillow and the scene near the end where she's holding off the horde. So she can't put a battery in straight, does that really matter in the world you are now in? Now lets tally up Doug's usefulness - Once, maybe as a distraction. Oh, and to be fair, he was able to lean up against a barricade for a few seconds. And now that the power is out wide-scale, his usefulness will go down tremendously.

As for his skill with electricity in general, I would trust Lily for that. A good mechanic has a much better grasp of general repair work and electrical systems than any computer nerd I have ever met.

So in order of usefulness Carly/Lily are right at the top going purely by known skill sets.
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Comments

  • edited May 2012
    Guns are overrated. They are loud, attract the wrong kind of attention, and the bullets will run out. Give me a good old fashioned bow any day. Arrows are easy to make.

    I like Carley, and I feel like Lee owes her. I tend to go for the people that saved Lee, but she wasn't that great a shot. Most of her kills were at close range. I'd love to meet a sniper like Andrea or a hunter with traps.

    As for Lily, I'm sure she is a great mechanic but do you trust her? I also think Lily might be a better shot than Carley. I assume that anyone who works at an airforce base has gone through basic training?
  • edited May 2012
    oh certainly the bow and arrow option is great. But currently there is no one with that skill in the group. And that is fairly difficult to learn also. With firearms, even though it is loud, it is still a very useful skill in the current state of the world in the game. And as for how easy it is to hit moving things, even at close range, while under stress - I suggest you try it.

    A good test is to sprint 50 yards or so, then without pausing to rest, pull out your pistol and try to hit a moving object the size of a head which is between 3 and 10 yards away. The sprinting will simulate what you will be dealing with in terms of adrenalin and increased heart rate that fighting for your life will give you. Hitting your target while in this condition is a LOT harder than you think.

    Also, if you side with Lily's dad she opens up to you in subsequent conversations which seem to indicate that she is a reliable caring individual.

    One other thing, firearms is a perishable skill. If you do not practice regularly it degrades over time. So even if someone went through basic training if they have not maintained that skill, they will not be as proficient as someone who had.
  • edited May 2012
    The main use of guns in this world is to make noise alerting hundreds of zombies in the region to come get you. That's why there's whole neighborhoods with no survivors even in communities in gun loving Georgia.
  • edited May 2012
    sounds like silencers and subsonic ammo is the way to go =)
  • edited May 2012
    zenstrata wrote: »
    sounds like silencers and subsonic ammo is the way to go =)

    Silencers reduce the sound of a gun, but hardly silence them.

    Bow and arrow is way better (plus, a layperson can actually fletch if they have a dowel rod, a knife, and bird feathers or plastic bits).

    Personally, I'd go with incendiaries or yo-yos. (Before you knock the idea of a yo-yo, they can be made from a rock as a retrievable quiet projectile. Despite popular myth, they were not originally designed as weapons, however.)
  • edited May 2012
    Sorry. That woman doesn't even know how to use batteries and a radio. She needs to go.
  • edited May 2012
    because batteries and radios will be oh so useful in the world :P
  • edited May 2012
    zenstrata wrote: »
    because batteries and radios will be oh so useful in the world :P
    Doug would useful in cities, where stealth and knowledge of electronics is required (no noisy guns and tons of potential spots for such electronics), but considering it is safer to be in less populated areas, which generally have less such electronics, Carly's skill is more useful. That being said, guns will need to go. I hope she learns how to shoot something else...
  • edited May 2012
    Please explain how would Doug's electronics skill will be useful in cities when the power is out. Because honestly I can't think of many situations where that would come in handy at all.

    Also anyone can be stealthy. When Carly comes with you to the motel to help rescue Glenn, she is quite stealthy there. Certainly you may not always want to use a firearm. But it is very nice to have the option in an emergency.
  • edited May 2012
    When I played through the game the statistics at the end said that over 70% of people chose Carly over Doug. Honestly I think they both have their strengths and weaknesses, I don't think choosing either over the other should be considered a "mistake", but I suppose we won't know until the season is finished.
  • VainamoinenVainamoinen Moderator
    edited May 2012
    zenstrata wrote: »
    From personal experience - It takes many thousands of rounds and hundreds of hours of practice to become that good with a firearm.

    Of all the games that Comrade Pants didn't buy and all the threads that he didn't post in...
    der_ketzer wrote: »
    Sorry. That woman doesn't even know how to use batteries and a radio. She needs to go.

    ...and isn't it a cruel strike of fate that you can't decide? :D
  • edited May 2012
    ...and isn't it a cruel strike of fate that you can't decide? :D

    no. I don't care too much.
  • edited May 2012
    Carley wouldnt of been able to save those lifes if it werent for Doug. He saved her life without a gun while she saves lifes with a gun so if she loses that is she really that effective? Also she is prone to panicking and not thinking clearly as shown by not even being able to fix a radio while Doug remains calm throughout and doesnt make stupid mistakes. And when it comes to Dougs skills he may not be able to shoot a gun for all we know but he is able to save lifes without one and the tech skills can also be handy along with all the emotional support he is able to provide. So any points about repaying Carly for saving lifes you have to remember she wouldnt of been able to if it werent for Doug.
  • edited May 2012
    zenstrata wrote: »
    There are some spoilers in this post, I should warn of that first.

    I see a lot of people making a big mistake and choosing Doug over Carly. I believe most people do not understand how much practice and time goes into becoming highly proficient with a firearm. You can't just learn overnight, or even over a few weeks, how to fire that quickly and with the amazing degree of accuracy while under stress like Carly can.

    From personal experience - It takes many thousands of rounds and hundreds of hours of practice to become that good with a firearm. Now realize what situation you are in. Do you really expect to come upon caches of perhaps a few hundred thousand rounds of ammunition to practice with? And when are you going to spend the hundreds of hours of range time it would take to get proficient enough to get snap headshots reliably while under stressful situations like Carly can?

    Also consider how often are you going to run into places with working electricity and the type of equipment which Doug is skilled in. Do you expect to see that sort of thing often? How much will it save your life? Now consider how often an expert pistol shooter will be useful and how many times that will save your life.

    During the course of the first episode Carly saved the main characters life and several other party members Twice! And Carly was useful 4 times if you count the pillow and the scene near the end where she's holding off the horde. So she can't put a battery in straight, does that really matter in the world you are now in? Now lets tally up Doug's usefulness - Once, maybe as a distraction. Oh, and to be fair, he was able to lean up against a barricade for a few seconds. And now that the power is out wide-scale, his usefulness will go down tremendously.

    As for his skill with electricity in general, I would trust Lily for that. A good mechanic has a much better grasp of general repair work and electrical systems than any computer nerd I have ever met.

    So in order of usefulness Carly/Lily are right at the top going purely by known skill sets.

    Ok. I had a long post about each individual point and why you are wrong, but it didn't save so I'll just brush it over really fast.
    • Carley never was a "Crack Shot" she shot a zombie at 5 feet away and nearly killed everyone FOR shooting said zombie.
    • Guns are NOT the answer in Walking Dead. I good melee weapon is though. Lee can do that
    • Carley never saved Lee's life. She saved Ducks and the bathroom zombie was nearly taken care of by Lee.
    • Doug proved his usefulness as a distraction AND a good lookout. Carley proved her uselessness by completely wasting ammo. Putting said ammo in her purse and leaving the purse

    To sum things up. Carley is not a crack shot, and Telltale need to stop deleting my long posts:p
  • edited May 2012
    Gman5852 wrote: »
    Ok. I had a long post about each individual point and why you are wrong, but it didn't save so I'll just brush it over really fast.
    • Carley never was a "Crack Shot" she shot a zombie at 5 feet away and nearly killed everyone FOR shooting said zombie.
    • Guns are NOT the answer in Walking Dead. I good melee weapon is though. Lee can do that
    • Carley never saved Lee's life. She saved Ducks and the bathroom zombie was nearly taken care of by Lee.
    • Doug proved his usefulness as a distraction AND a good lookout. Carley proved her uselessness by completely wasting ammo. Putting said ammo in her purse and leaving the purse

    To sum things up. Carley is not a crack shot, and Telltale need to stop deleting my long posts:p

    1. 5 feet or not, a gun in an emergency when it comes to saving survivors is not a bad thing..the noise it brought wouldn't have mattered anyway, because it was Kenny's yelling that already brought attention to them. That, and a gun saves time with a well-placed headshot than just rushing up and tackling the zombie(s) and risking getting bitten.

    2. Carly very well saved Lee's life on MY game. I didn't mash the X button fast enough to completely connect the 2 arrows, so she shot the toilet-dwelling zombie for me. And Duck's life or not, she still saved a life.

    3. I'm sure she'd rather keep her ammo in her purse, where it can't be stolen from her, much more by the careless Duck who might be a little TOO curious with it. Also, if she knew zombies would full-on assault the doors and entrances like they did, she would've kept her purse more within reach. I know I would've.
  • edited May 2012
    Haha, what is actually hilarious is that those that have saved Doug are in the extreme minority. I myself saved him, but as the game goes on, and more people are exposed the number will continue to dwindle in the player set that chose to save Doug. Carley is actually pushed to the forefront of most players mind, also it is mostly human male wiring to save a female, and those players cannot be blamed, the few who did choose Doug did so out rational thought more than emotions.
  • edited May 2012
    NeonBlade wrote: »
    Haha, what is actually hilarious is that those that have saved Doug are in the extreme minority. I myself saved him, but as the game goes on, and more people are exposed the number will continue to dwindle in the player set that chose to save Doug. Carley is actually pushed to the forefront of most players mind, also it is mostly human male wiring to save a female, and those players cannot be blamed, the few who did choose Doug did so out rational thought more than emotions.

    not sure that saving an obese man who can programme a tv remote in a situation were tvs are obsolete and technology is very rare is "rational", especially as my "rational" thought made me choose the thick woman so i could let her die when the gun is in my posession... ;)
  • edited May 2012
    I chose Carly because she's a woman. Women and children first! I bet Doug would've wanted the same :)
  • edited May 2012
    Carly nows the story of lee, so she needs to go...
  • edited May 2012
    Lachi wrote: »
    Carly nows the story of lee, so she needs to go...

    Because someone who isn't going to tell the rest of the group despite knowing is such a danger to you especially when another member of the group knows and will most likely tell them without a second thought if he thinks it will benefit him somehow. I think it's more useful to have someone who already knows and isn't so bothered by it to the point that she's willing to keep that secret than someone who doesn't know and we have no idea how he'll react to that information.
  • edited May 2012
    Besides her gun skills I found her to be a very brave and loyal character. She risks her life to save others including your character. She knows your secret but doesn't tell anyone. She's a good character and for her flaws both of them have dumb moments. Like Doug yelling which alerted the zombies. If it wasn't for him would you have been in that situation?
  • CapnJayCapnJay Banned
    edited May 2012
    I never underestimate the value of a good shot ... so we talking Tequila or Whiskey?
  • edited May 2012
    I do not underestimate a good shot. But the people taking the side of guns being bad, as they are loud and attract the wrong attention, do have a point. However in a situation similar to the drug store being overrun, I want to put as much distance between myself and any walker.

    Guns in this situation allow you to maintain a more desirable safe zone. Sure they attract walkers, but unless you're injured or weak, you can probably evade any you come across while escaping.

    We shouldn't immediately discount the use of a good firearm and consequently a good shot. Guns have an appropriate time just as a good melee weapon does. Yes, melee weapons are probably a better decision for most situations. But in some situations like being overrun, melee attacks put you at a high risk of injury/infection than using a gun to clear a path to safety.
  • edited May 2012
    Woder wrote: »
    I chose Carly because she's a woman. Women and children first! I bet Doug would've wanted the same :)

    Doug actually says he wished you picked Carly over him.
  • edited May 2012
    Gman5852 wrote: »
    Doug actually says he wished you picked Carly over him.
    It sounded differently when the zombies had a hold on him. He is just an ungrateful bastard.
  • CapnJayCapnJay Banned
    edited May 2012
    Lachi wrote: »
    It sounded differently when the zombies had a hold on him. He is just an ungrateful bastard.

    Would you honestly say "Lee Help! I'm being Grabbed By Zombies and drug out the window to be eaten Oh hey Carley's in Trouble you should help her first and if you still have time afterwards could you do me a favor and help me out of this predicament?" While being grabbed by zombies?
  • edited May 2012
    A hero would. I am not a hero but I would punch the zombie and not endanger others because of my one stupidity to lean against an open window.
  • CapnJayCapnJay Banned
    edited May 2012
    Lachi wrote: »
    A hero would. I am not a hero but I would punch the zombie and not endanger others because of my one stupidity to lean against an open window.

    I'm Pretty Sure even a Hero wouldn't be that ... Verbose when being grabbed.

    Besides I think Lee said it best to kenny "Looking back you think you had a choice but in that moment when it happens there was never really a choice"

    Doug Panicked Carley Panicked they both needed help Lee Made a Choice. Doug felt guilty that the girl he liked got killed because he was in trouble and Lee could only save one. But in that moment when all hell broke loose he wasn't thinking about Carley or Lee he was thinking about his own survival.

    and you would be the same way Lachi. You might be noble enough to play the role of Bill from Left 4 Dead and stay behind to hold off the route for others to escape.. But when your grabbed but not bitten yet. You wouldnt be focused on if that girl/boy you like and would die for is in trouble you'd be focused on how to escape from your own predicament then if you got saved and it turned out your life was saved but the boy/girl you like died because of it you'd probably feel as guilty as doug.
  • edited May 2012
    I never said I anything like that. In fact it was just random trolling because some of you are taking this thread so seriously. The threads about Carley, Doug, Kenny and Larry are good amusement. People defending their decision why they saved one game character over the other is just too silly.

    But now back to topic:
    I don't know if this has been mentioned but Carleys gun is empty. After seeing Doug die, she emptied her last clip on random zombies. Makes her gun useless and says something about her mind.
  • edited May 2012
    Doug would useful in cities, where stealth and knowledge of electronics is required (no noisy guns and tons of potential spots for such electronics), but considering it is safer to be in less populated areas, which generally have less such electronics, Carly's skill is more useful. That being said, guns will need to go. I hope she learns how to shoot something else...
    Yeah Doug was really useful in disabling the alarm at the Pharmacy wasn`t he.
  • edited May 2012
    Yes because a guy who shouts at you to quickly run back after you get the keys (getting even more of them after you aside from the few who maybe noticed you causing him to cry out in the first place) is such a smart one. And then when you run back instead of closing the gate completely so they will have a harder time to get in just leaves it open a bit. Really smart Doug, really smart.

    Not to mention the reason he died. Carly at least had the common sense to stay back from the window a bit so she could shoot them. What did Doug do? Oh yeah, the idiot leans against a half barred window, instead of grabbing a weapon and staying out of reach. He leans against the wood where the zombies can easily reach for him through the planks and then is surprised he gets grabbed. Why the heck was he leaning against it anyway? That had to be the most stupid thing to do.
  • edited May 2012
    What I find odd about the save Doug vs save Carly argument is that so many people try to justify there choice not only by highlighting the positive attributes of the character they saved/picked, but also by dismissing the positive qualities of the character they did not. (E.g. Carly isn't really a dead-eye since all of her targets have been so close or Doug is useless without electricity).

    I say this because of all the options in Episode 1 this choice seemed tactically the most grey to me. For example: There really doesn't seem to be a point in lying to Herschel since he knows you are lying to him if you do, or whether or not you choose to give Irene the gun she ends up killing herself anyway. (Perhaps further into the story these choices will have far reaching consequences, but that remains to be seen.)

    However, with the Carly vs Doug option it seems certain to me the group is going to gain/retain something while lose something else. The game implies that both these characters have their own varied skills and strengths, and both have proven to be heroic in their own way. To suggest otherwise, I think, is allowing bias to cloud your judgment. Perhaps one will be ultimately turn out to be more valuable when overcoming future obstacles, but that is only going to be determined in hindsight (much like all our other choices thus far).

    Ultimately the best choice is the one you feel the most comfortable with, but I don’t think either choice is wrong
  • edited May 2012
    A wise man once said: tumblr_lmiwfptO4V1qhbd7no1_1280.jpg
    series: preacher
    context: saint of killers just got hit with a nuke
  • CapnJayCapnJay Banned
    edited May 2012
    So lets all create a tribute to Walking Dead in Minecraft while we wait.
  • edited May 2012
    CapnJay wrote: »
    So lets all create a tribute to Walking Dead in Minecraft while we wait.

    Yes please! but ehm, how?
  • edited May 2012
    I recently had a pistol training course. Almost everyone in that course had a very difficult time hitting much of anything, and we were very close. between 3-15 yards. It is more difficult than you think to hit accurately with a sidearm. I would say most people will miss, unless they practice or train regularly, when in any sort of stressful situation. Carly has shown she can reliably take out 1 enemy per shot at those ranges. As I said, that is more than most people can do. And i'm speaking from experience.
  • CapnJayCapnJay Banned
    edited May 2012
    Zen lets get some cops , some firearm enthusiasts, some fps gamers and some ordinary people on a firing course and compare results that'd be awesome
  • edited May 2012
    I'm game! .22 caliber would be my weapon of choice for sure, much more accurate than a 9mm or .38, much easier to find or even press ammo cuz it's smaller and cheaper so it's everywhere. I can make quite a grouping at 15 yds with a 22. With my friend's 9mm I usually hit all over the place. Familiarity definitely is a huge factor, as well as wrist strength for recoil, breathing, calm trigger pull, trigger weight, etc. A random person firing for the first time would most likely freak out trying to hit multiple zombies in the head. Needless to say, I'd probably still save Doug then try to grab the gun as we ran out the door lol
  • edited May 2012
    ADavidson wrote: »
    I'm game! .22 caliber would be my weapon of choice for sure, much more accurate than a 9mm or .38, much easier to find or even press ammo cuz it's smaller and cheaper so it's everywhere. I can make quite a grouping at 15 yds with a 22. With my friend's 9mm I usually hit all over the place. Familiarity definitely is a huge factor, as well as wrist strength for recoil, breathing, calm trigger pull, trigger weight, etc. A random person firing for the first time would most likely freak out trying to hit multiple zombies in the head. Needless to say, I'd probably still save Doug then try to grab the gun as we ran out the door lol

    i watched sons of guns/ american guns

    they have done zombie guns.

    and they did make a .22 winchester and a .22 bullpup/p90 hybrid and full army spec m16 i think with nade launcher
  • CapnJayCapnJay Banned
    edited May 2012
    When it comes to guns being loud and all as a bad reason to take the gun i am reminded of the pillow there are other ways to make use of pistols maybe someone will challenge you to a duel of your choice and when you choose banjos itll turn out they're an expert banjo player so you shoot their banjo
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