its was a ignorant remart more than a racist one big diffrence.
Uh, racism is caused by ignorance.
"We can't trust them, they're different skinned. I hear they do that one stereotype."
"Not really, we're just like you."
"Oh. I guess I'm racist and ignorant."
IMO, the game developers put it there more for comic relief than to make Kenny seem like a bad guy.
It's totally within character - Kenny is brash, and while he may be well-spoken he is not the most intelligent.
He didn't call Lee "urban" out of hate, so it's NOT racist. Just like the rest of us, Kenny is prone to prejudice and stereotypes. He's just not smart enough to know not to say it.
It's totally within character - Kenny is brash, and while he may be well-spoken he is not the most intelligent.
He didn't call Lee "urban" out of hate, so it's NOT racist. Just like the rest of us, Kenny is prone to prejudice and stereotypes. He's just not smart enough to know not to say it.
It's totally within character - Kenny is brash, and while he may be well-spoken he is not the most intelligent.
He didn't call Lee "urban" out of hate, so it's NOT racist. Just like the rest of us, Kenny is prone to prejudice and stereotypes. He's just not smart enough to know not to say it.
But he's smart or sensitive enough to follow it with a bit of self-deprecation, ironically making it his most redeeming moment in ep2.
I certainly laughed and found it endearing. Well placed, too. Let's not forget that Kenny is progressively losing his shit over the course of ep2, and this moment is sort of right before he hits hot mess critical mass.
This is good thread. Kudos to the folks on this string for not letting the thread deteriorate to where these kind of threads sometimes do.
I'm a U.S. person of color who has a very open mind and friends from all walks of life and nationalities. Certainly most of us in the U.S. are historically "trained" to think certain ways about most different groups of people. I believe I've done a good job in my life of seeing beyond this "training" we get.
Kenny's remark about Lee may have come from a stereotypical place. But so far in the story, his friendship with Lee seems to come from his heart. I wouldn't drop Kenny in the "racist" silo from this...no more than any other American.
For me, it may be easier to see Larry as coming from a racist POV. He never says one offensive word or anything really that couldn't be said to anyone else in the cast. Indeed, he has a right and desire to protect his daughter and I don't blame him. He has issues as his daughter says. But his tone and the fact that someone in the cast makes the remark that he has it out a bit more for Lee than the others, makes me feel that even in a non-zombie world, in a world where he had other children and maybe even grandchildren, he would not be a kind man towards Lee.
I have to be honest with myself though...that does not make him a racist...it does not mean that he doesn't have the right to not like someone. We sometimes mistake the mere dislike of someone as being "because I'm "short", "tall", "fat", "skinny", "Italian", "Jewish"...yes even because I'm "black". The truth is, sometimes we JUST DON'T LIKE SOMEONE...and it has nothing to do with race.
We would need a Walking Dead "prequel" to learn more about Larry to make a better assumption. As I try to do in my own life, I would try to keep an open mind about Larry if a prequel ever materialized!
kenny's pretty tame, compared to the drill seargent running the farm there. he does say some stuff that lee, or my interpretation of lee, doesnt always agree with, anyway.
for instance, while hes tinkerin with his pickup truck, he makes a comment about how he assumes its lee's desire to have children, even though he doesnt. kinda rubbin it in his face type of thing.
then lee goes out of his way to save his little duck, later on, all he can think about is how we "let" the old dude's son die? i dont think you get it there kenny.
besides, the way this particular encounter is designed, i dont think saving them both is an option, hence the trophy for "between a rock & a hard place"
the big guy, with the heart condition, now that guys an asshole.
^ turn the subtitles on. even his dialouge is in red, further emphisizing this.
We would need a Walking Dead "prequel" to learn more about Larry to make a better assumption. As I try to do in my own life, I would try to keep an open mind about Larry if a prequel ever materialized!
No, I don't think Larry was racist. I think he was a father reacting to a man his daughter deferred to to a certain extent and it didn't help that the particular man was a known murderer.
Based on Lee's reaction I consider it racist. From his apology it was clear he knew what he said was offensive and why.
Bigoted is as bigoted does, and claiming innocent ignorance the way he did is like closing the barn door after your human dinner has escaped ... so to speak.
Based on Lee's reaction I consider it racist. From his apology it was clear he knew what he said was offensive and why.
Bigoted is as bigoted does, and claiming innocent ignorance the way he did is like closing the barn door after your human dinner has escaped ... so to speak.
Do you know how hard it is to get people to admit anything is racist?
The only way to be a bigot in this country is talk about the California golden calf's otherwise...
i was refering to the volkswagon city car the fox which replaced the lupo, the fox has now been replaced by the 'up' yes i am aware of the up being part of the word lupo.. but for some reason vw stuck with up...
Racism isn't necessary malicious, anymore than sexism is. It's just ignorant. A slap on the ass is a compliment to some people.
but kenny didn't mean to offend Lee, this is what I'm getting at, all racism has intent to offend (or delight). You can forgive ignorance, but going out to be a dick to someone because of culture or race can't be so easily forgiven. Unless it's a funny joke of course. Then its fine. But yeah ken was ignorant then, not racist.
but kenny didn't mean to offend Lee, this is what I'm getting at, all racism has intent to offend (or delight). You can forgive ignorance, but going out to be a dick to someone because of culture or race can't be so easily forgiven. Unless it's a funny joke of course. Then its fine. But yeah ken was ignorant then, not racist.
Racism doesn't have to be with intent to injure. If someone's options are limited because someone else believes, with all the best of intention, that that person would be best suited to a certain occupation because of their nationality - there's a problem and that's racism.
Racism is often ignorance rather than malice and I agree ignorance is forgivable assuming they learn.
Kenny didn't have malice in his tone, he wasn't going out to offend Lee because of his race, it was more profiling or stereotyping...
I know Kenny didn't mean to offend Lee but he reconized that despite having no intent to offend Lee that Lee was offended. That's what is important here. It's nothing to do with what was intended but how it was received by the other person. The right thing to do when someone is offended is to apologize which is what Kenny did in his own clumsy way.
I know Kenny didn't mean to offend Lee but he reconized that despite having no intent to offend Lee that Lee was offended. That's what is important here. It's nothing to do with what was intended but how it was received by the other person. The right thing to do when someone is offended is to apologize which is what Kenny did in his own clumsy way.
He is ignorant then because he cant comprehend that what he is about to say will be offensive...like you said he is a numbnuts, and Lee gets over it pretty quickly because he is an intelligent guy and realises stressing over it would just cause more problems (things do get more tense afterwards and probably will continue to rise in 3 depending on your choices)(saying that I wish you could have chosen to say something a bit sharper or just smacked him, that would have been hilarious, especially for the anti kenny people) either way i get you
Lets get our priorities straight
What is worse a Murderer or a racist?
I hate him for murder not racism
but...
I suppose I can hate him for more than one reason...
If Kenny hated Lee because of his skin color, he probably wouldn't have taken him to Macon, or saved him when the drug store was overrun. Yes, the comment was a bit racist, but it comes from Kenny being ignorant/misinformed. I shrugged it off, like Lee, and the way he apologized was gold.
Comments
Uh, racism is caused by ignorance.
"We can't trust them, they're different skinned. I hear they do that one stereotype."
"Not really, we're just like you."
"Oh. I guess I'm racist and ignorant."
Like this!
It's totally within character - Kenny is brash, and while he may be well-spoken he is not the most intelligent.
He didn't call Lee "urban" out of hate, so it's NOT racist. Just like the rest of us, Kenny is prone to prejudice and stereotypes. He's just not smart enough to know not to say it.
Well if you want to be logical about it.
:cool:
But he's smart or sensitive enough to follow it with a bit of self-deprecation, ironically making it his most redeeming moment in ep2.
I agree - he was observant enough to realize that Lee found the comment offensive, and defused the situation through humor.
I'm a U.S. person of color who has a very open mind and friends from all walks of life and nationalities. Certainly most of us in the U.S. are historically "trained" to think certain ways about most different groups of people. I believe I've done a good job in my life of seeing beyond this "training" we get.
Kenny's remark about Lee may have come from a stereotypical place. But so far in the story, his friendship with Lee seems to come from his heart. I wouldn't drop Kenny in the "racist" silo from this...no more than any other American.
For me, it may be easier to see Larry as coming from a racist POV. He never says one offensive word or anything really that couldn't be said to anyone else in the cast. Indeed, he has a right and desire to protect his daughter and I don't blame him. He has issues as his daughter says. But his tone and the fact that someone in the cast makes the remark that he has it out a bit more for Lee than the others, makes me feel that even in a non-zombie world, in a world where he had other children and maybe even grandchildren, he would not be a kind man towards Lee.
I have to be honest with myself though...that does not make him a racist...it does not mean that he doesn't have the right to not like someone. We sometimes mistake the mere dislike of someone as being "because I'm "short", "tall", "fat", "skinny", "Italian", "Jewish"...yes even because I'm "black". The truth is, sometimes we JUST DON'T LIKE SOMEONE...and it has nothing to do with race.
We would need a Walking Dead "prequel" to learn more about Larry to make a better assumption. As I try to do in my own life, I would try to keep an open mind about Larry if a prequel ever materialized!
for instance, while hes tinkerin with his pickup truck, he makes a comment about how he assumes its lee's desire to have children, even though he doesnt. kinda rubbin it in his face type of thing.
then lee goes out of his way to save his little duck, later on, all he can think about is how we "let" the old dude's son die? i dont think you get it there kenny.
besides, the way this particular encounter is designed, i dont think saving them both is an option, hence the trophy for "between a rock & a hard place"
the big guy, with the heart condition, now that guys an asshole.
^ turn the subtitles on. even his dialouge is in red, further emphisizing this.
No, I don't think Larry was racist. I think he was a father reacting to a man his daughter deferred to to a certain extent and it didn't help that the particular man was a known murderer.
Bigoted is as bigoted does, and claiming innocent ignorance the way he did is like closing the barn door after your human dinner has escaped ... so to speak.
Do you know how hard it is to get people to admit anything is racist?
The only way to be a bigot in this country is talk about the California golden calf's otherwise...
Kinda weird.
i sense irony...
I have no idea what you are talking about
good..
urban also the name of a vw fox spec...
excellent
What is that? Do you mean W.V. as in west Virginia?
http://bit.ly/TFrCWW
Does that help?
Ah man look brah, was that any easier than telling me what it was?
Are you that petty?
lollolololololololol gonna remember that !!!
nice one
thats gold mate
in case anyone doesn't want to risk that link
i was refering to the volkswagon city car the fox which replaced the lupo, the fox has now been replaced by the 'up' yes i am aware of the up being part of the word lupo.. but for some reason vw stuck with up...
Racism isn't necessary malicious, anymore than sexism is. It's just ignorant. A slap on the ass is a compliment to some people.
It sure brightens my day.
Giving or receiving?
*head explodes*
two choices there as well...
but kenny didn't mean to offend Lee, this is what I'm getting at, all racism has intent to offend (or delight). You can forgive ignorance, but going out to be a dick to someone because of culture or race can't be so easily forgiven. Unless it's a funny joke of course. Then its fine. But yeah ken was ignorant then, not racist.
Racism doesn't have to be with intent to injure. If someone's options are limited because someone else believes, with all the best of intention, that that person would be best suited to a certain occupation because of their nationality - there's a problem and that's racism.
Racism is often ignorance rather than malice and I agree ignorance is forgivable assuming they learn.
I know Kenny didn't mean to offend Lee but he reconized that despite having no intent to offend Lee that Lee was offended. That's what is important here. It's nothing to do with what was intended but how it was received by the other person. The right thing to do when someone is offended is to apologize which is what Kenny did in his own clumsy way.
He is ignorant then because he cant comprehend that what he is about to say will be offensive...like you said he is a numbnuts, and Lee gets over it pretty quickly because he is an intelligent guy and realises stressing over it would just cause more problems (things do get more tense afterwards and probably will continue to rise in 3 depending on your choices)(saying that I wish you could have chosen to say something a bit sharper or just smacked him, that would have been hilarious, especially for the anti kenny people) either way i get you
What is worse a Murderer or a racist?
I hate him for murder not racism
but...
I suppose I can hate him for more than one reason...
Just to put it in perspective, Lee is a convicted murderer.
He isn't racist, he is just tactless.