With Bone and recent adventures you can blow through them regardless of whether you've played before....simply because its just a story and there is no actual "playing" involved.
Like others have said before, you really need to play The Great Cow Race. It's full of hotspots (I thought we were talking about the number of verbs earlier, anyway...) and interaction, even if it's not designed to be a huge challenge. Even Out from Boneville was leagues ahead of Syberia and its ilk. Reintroducing interaction to adventures is one of the main things I like about Telltale. I also think Telltale's puzzle design is being underestimated; the puzzles in Bone may be (intentionally) rather easy, but they show a rare elegance and creativity in their execution and integration into the game. This is something even a lot of Telltale's fans seem to overlook, and I think the increasing trend of equating difficulty with good design is a negative one.
Make what excuses you will about budget, but it would only take a few hours to write up some responses for examining background objects.
I think you may underestimate the demands of writing and design...
Surprisingly, yes. I never knew PayPal made inroads into South Africa, but in fact a quick visit to their site indicates that yes; PayPal does allow us to make payments. Nice.
I have no idea if anyone has said this, having not read through the 9 pages of this thread, but Bone is intentionally on the easy side. Bone is a huge independent comic with many fans (and a creator) who've never played a game before, let alone an adventure game. However, Sam and Max is much smaller and probably known best for Hit the Road, so it was a huge following of experienced adventurers, and will be harder. I'd find a quote when Telltale themselves said this, but I am cursed with acute laziness.
I have no idea if anyone has said this, having not read through the 9 pages of this thread, but Bone is intentionally on the easy side. Bone is a huge independent comic with many fans (and a creator) who've never played a game before, let alone an adventure game. However, Sam and Max is much smaller and probably known best for Hit the Road, so it was a huge following of experienced adventurers, and will be harder. I'd find a quote when Telltale themselves said this, but I am cursed with acute laziness.
Bone isn't "huge". At least before the scholastic deal. It wasen't much more popular then Sam and Max.
I'd find a quote when Telltale themselves said this, but I am cursed with acute laziness.
Kevin again, in the interview I quoted in another thread earlier today...
Do you anticipate the puzzles, the kinds of things the player's doing, to be very different than what you have us doing in Bone?
Yes. Sam & Max is a different audience. Bone is with Scholastic, and it's a younger audience. Sam & Max is going to be a game for older, more experienced gamers. When we put the difficulty meter on the website, it was to kind of let people know that where we're coming from, Bone is on the easy side. Infocom, when they made games, had beginner, intermediate, and advanced. We would classify Bone as beginner, although I think "beginner" is the wrong word for it. It's a 2 out of 6. Sam & Max will be a more sophisticated game.
Someone commented on our forum recently that Bone doesn't have any wacky puzzles, and someone else said, "Let them save that for Sam & Max."
You know… I like all the puzzles in Bone. I have some problems with Bone, but I think most of the puzzles were pretty good. But the Sam & Max puzzles will be more sophisticated, more traditional adventure gamer stuff. I definitely think Sam & Max is more the game that most of the regular adventure crowd is going to be expecting from us, but we're all very happy with Bone. We've been big Bone fans for a long time. It's just that you can't do a Bone game the same way you would do a Sam & Max game.
Its too bad a different sort of demo could be released to show us what kinds of interactivity and puzzles will be in Sam 'n max episodes....you know like an 30 minute demo that would really try to sell the WHOLE series.
I'm just not sold on the idea of a 2 hour adventure game unless its filled to the brim with what adventures have been lacking of late. I'd rather not just get a story....a nice bunch of intelligent puzzles would be nice too.
I know. I really loved the first Sam & Max HTR trailer, sorry to carry onharping about this old game, but what else can I use to compare?! Anyway, that trailor came bundled with Star Wars: Rebel Assault, which came bundled with almost all new PC buys around that time. The Sam & Max demo wasn't playable or anything, but it was long, well-editied and didn't hide the gameplay with fancy visuals or FMV's - it showed in-game playable areas and had Sam & Max talking in-dialogue. Right then and there I was sold, hook line and sinker.
I know. I really loved the first Sam & Max HTR trailer, sorry to carry onharping about this old game, but what else can I use to compare?! Anyway, that trailor came bundled with Star Wars: Rebel Assault, which came bundled with almost all new PC buys around that time. The Sam & Max demo wasn't playable or anything, but it was long, well-editied and didn't hide the gameplay with fancy visuals or FMV's - it showed in-game playable areas and had Sam & Max talking in-dialogue. Right then and there I was sold, hook line and sinker.
Yeah I remember that trailer! I'm sure when telltale are further into the development of the game we will get a new trailer showin off the gameplay and story etc
This 'verb' discussion might be a bit beside the real point most of us are trying to present. As some of the latest posts imply, really the thing that most of us probably want is interaction. In what form it will come - verbs or a lot of items that need to be combined - isn't that relevant I guess.
Glad you brought that up, I was going to ask about it. Because every inventory item essentially acts as a specialized new "verb," and frankly I think if I give the character, say, a felt tip pen and let you try to write on things, the interactions will be more interesting than they will if I give you a separate command to pick things up. There is little mystery about whether you're going to try to pick up every portable item you can see - it's an adventure game, of course you are! (I suppose I could rehash the old joke about trying to pick up another character, but there are only so many times that that's funny.)
Certainly no shortage of opinions on this thread! Thanks to all.
Glad you brought that up, I was going to ask about it. Because every inventory item essentially acts as a specialized new "verb," and frankly I think if I give the character, say, a felt tip pen and let you try to write on things, the interactions will be more interesting than they will if I give you a separate command to pick things up. There is little mystery about whether you're going to try to pick up every portable item you can see - it's an adventure game, of course you are! (I suppose I could rehash the old joke about trying to pick up another character, but there are only so many times that that's funny.)
Certainly no shortage of opinions on this thread! Thanks to all.
Hey Dave good point.. Thanks for the years of fun I had with Day of the Tentacle by the way
Glad you brought that up, I was going to ask about it. Because every inventory item essentially acts as a specialized new "verb," and frankly I think if I give the character, say, a felt tip pen and let you try to write on things, the interactions will be more interesting than they will if I give you a separate command to pick things up. There is little mystery about whether you're going to try to pick up every portable item you can see - it's an adventure game, of course you are! (I suppose I could rehash the old joke about trying to pick up another character, but there are only so many times that that's funny.)
Certainly no shortage of opinions on this thread! Thanks to all.
Hey Dave good point.. Thanks for the years of fun I had with Day of the Tentacle by the way
Combining items and multiple interactions are what I find a fun part of adventure games. But instead of having the character say "I don't know what to do with this object...". How about giving some of these objects a silly use?
Say that Max finds some Nunchakus in the trash can outside. Instead of him saying "I don't need these for anything...", the user could select to do a couple things. (1) Throw them at a nearby window. (2) Put them on the ground, and have Sam trip on them.
Just highlight the two areas on the screen, for the user to select. And let the user do only one option. That way, it gives some incentive for the gamer to replay the game, and select a different option next time.
Combining items and multiple interactions are what I find a fun part of adventure games. But instead of having the character say "I don't know what to do with this object...". How about giving some of these objects a silly use?
Actually, that's probably what he meant here:
I think if I give the character, say, a felt tip pen and let you try to write on things, the interactions will be more interesting than they will if I give you a separate command to pick things up.
While verbs and hot spots are being discussed there’s another important issue I’d like to bring up, the freedom of verbs. One of the annoying things about modern adventure games, I find, is the fact that you can only access the verbs when you roll over a hot spot and then you practically get told which verb to use. I prefer to have a choice in where I use my verbs. I may want to try and talk to the floor, even if I get no reaction I still would like the freedom to try. An important aspect of this is the look verb. When you roll over a hot spot in the Bone games it often becomes the pick up verb first so you go ahead and grab it without getting a chance to look at it first. When I go into a new area I would rather roll around with my look verb first to see what I can see and then decide what I want to pick up. You may be able to tell that I’ve been thinking about this for a long time and if Telltale can get the whole verb/hot spot issue right, not necessarily the way I think it should be done, then I’m sure they’ll be on to a winner. I mean more of a winner than they would otherwise be.
Why is that so important? The Bone games had a streamlined interface that made it easy for beginners to play, and that got rid of a lot of unnecessary clicking. The look-at option is still available on all hotspots in Bone, including inventory objects that have yet to be picked up. If the Sam & Max games are going to be challenging, it should be because the puzzles are challenging, not because the interface has been set back fifteen years. It's not a matter of "freedom" to allow you to talk to a door, because that's not even a red herring, it's just pointless. I don't think that implementing an interface that happens to be not clumsy will limit interactivity in the slightest.
I actually think that having free verbs would mean less clicking, instead of having to change to the look verb every time you go from one object to another you would just change once then look at all the stuff you can. I don’t mean for the game to be any harder because of the this as you could have the verbs animate in some way when you roll over a hot spot. I just don't like the restrictions that object only verbs creates.
I actually think that having free verbs would mean less clicking, instead of having to change to the look verb every time you go from one object to another you would just change once then look at all the stuff you can.
What's wrong with left click for action, right click for look? That's even less clicking, because you wouldn't have to click the 'look' verb first.
I don't want to click at all. I just want to control what happens on screen with my mind-power. Can they do that? I don't mind paying a bit extra for that...but I don't want to have to touch the mouse or keyboard at all.
I don't want to click at all. I just want to control what happens on screen with my mind-power. Can they do that? I don't mind paying a bit extra for that...but I don't want to have to touch the mouse or keyboard at all.
Sure they can do that. All you have to do is drill a hole in your skull where you plug in the USB cable. Be careful not to damage your brain though. Probably best to let this be done by a professional, certified carpenter.
You know they *have* managed to build a computer which can read your thoughts. When you imagine moving your left arm, it moves the mouse pointer left and vice versa.
I dont know why but I've always thought the control system with Sam and Max was the best one I've used in an adventure game. It was simple and very effective. I I enjoyed not having to click on words, It was easy to scroll through the options.. and it had just the right amount.. B-)
I dunno, tabbing through commands wasn't exactly fun. It was fine for the time but I don't see it happening here. I wonder if Telltale is going to carry over the odd form of dialog trees from Hit the Road?
I don't want to click at all. I just want to control what happens on screen with my mind-power. Can they do that? I don't mind paying a bit extra for that...but I don't want to have to touch the mouse or keyboard at all.
Sure they can do that. All you have to do is drill a hole in your skull where you plug in the USB cable. Be careful not to damage your brain though. Probably best to let this be done by a professional, certified carpenter.
As an aside, I worked on a really short game last winter called Christmas Quest with some of the other staff at Adventure Gamers. We were determined give the player tons to do so we put in a lot of hotspots, with unique responses for each action on each hotspot. We worked HARD on those responses... it took way more time than I thought it would. And the game only had one room! So, yeah, I can completely understand where the designers are coming from if they prefer to focus their efforts in other areas. I've also found, as I've replayed some older games, that they don't have as many unique responses for actions as I remembered them having. Even Hit the Road has some pretty bland responses when you try to do things that don't work.
After playing that game I don't think that a lot of unique responses to many hotspots is that important. Too much makes you just try everything with everything, not because you are stuck, but because you don't want to miss anything. And that can be a bit frustrating at times, if you want to go on, but have a lot of objects you haven't tried everything on. Some is great. Too much is too much. Add them where they fit. 'Use Elaine' from EMI is a great example. Don't add too many responses just to add responses, but if you see something funny about the action, just include it.
Does Telltale even know what sort of challenge they're up aggains?
they're making a SEQUAL in the minds of many (don't even bother convincing us that it isn't a sequal...) and a sequal NEEDS to be BETTER than the original... now... they're making a sequal to one of the best games ever created... with 2 hour eppisodes... that isn't possible... and a warning to telltale of whitch i'm sure they're already aware: the advanture market is small... don't make it smaller by making people pay $20 for a 2 hour game...
I would say every 1.5 to 2 months at first, and then pick up to every month once they get the hang of things fairly soon. They are planning out the entire season and writing it right now, so it's not so hard to believe that they can do it, and these are shorter episodes than Cow Race, after all. Once they have a lot of the resources done, it's not probably not so hard to stick to a schedule like that. I'll be pleasantly surprised if they do get it once a month right off the bat, though.
And they probably have a couple of episodes finished before they release the first one just to make sure that they can hit the promised 1 month schedule.
And they probably have a couple of episodes finished before they release the first one just to make sure that they can hit the promised 1 month schedule.
Did Telltale actually promise it or put it in writing? I was just assuming that's what it would be since everyone else was saying it was.
No, Telltale never said that. We don't know that they will easily be able to bang one out every month either, though they might. And I'm quite sure they will be busy enough trying to make the episodes fast enough to make the deadlines, much less have a couple in the can at a time.
Comments
I think you may underestimate the demands of writing and design...
As I say, I don't have a mastercard or anything to pay with. If there were local suppliers, I could buy it. And yes, I will try and get a mastercard.
It runs a little slow. but then again I'm on what's considered a low end computer now-a-days.
At least I can still play Half Life
Bone isn't "huge". At least before the scholastic deal. It wasen't much more popular then Sam and Max.
Kevin again, in the interview I quoted in another thread earlier today...
Full interview.
I'm just not sold on the idea of a 2 hour adventure game unless its filled to the brim with what adventures have been lacking of late. I'd rather not just get a story....a nice bunch of intelligent puzzles would be nice too.
Yeah I remember that trailer! I'm sure when telltale are further into the development of the game we will get a new trailer showin off the gameplay and story etc
Glad you brought that up, I was going to ask about it. Because every inventory item essentially acts as a specialized new "verb," and frankly I think if I give the character, say, a felt tip pen and let you try to write on things, the interactions will be more interesting than they will if I give you a separate command to pick things up. There is little mystery about whether you're going to try to pick up every portable item you can see - it's an adventure game, of course you are! (I suppose I could rehash the old joke about trying to pick up another character, but there are only so many times that that's funny.)
Certainly no shortage of opinions on this thread! Thanks to all.
Hey Dave good point.. Thanks for the years of fun I had with Day of the Tentacle by the way
Combining items and multiple interactions are what I find a fun part of adventure games. But instead of having the character say "I don't know what to do with this object...". How about giving some of these objects a silly use?
Say that Max finds some Nunchakus in the trash can outside. Instead of him saying "I don't need these for anything...", the user could select to do a couple things. (1) Throw them at a nearby window. (2) Put them on the ground, and have Sam trip on them.
Just highlight the two areas on the screen, for the user to select. And let the user do only one option. That way, it gives some incentive for the gamer to replay the game, and select a different option next time.
Actually, that's probably what he meant here:
What's wrong with left click for action, right click for look? That's even less clicking, because you wouldn't have to click the 'look' verb first.
That would be cool with an adventure game.
After playing that game I don't think that a lot of unique responses to many hotspots is that important. Too much makes you just try everything with everything, not because you are stuck, but because you don't want to miss anything. And that can be a bit frustrating at times, if you want to go on, but have a lot of objects you haven't tried everything on. Some is great. Too much is too much. Add them where they fit. 'Use Elaine' from EMI is a great example. Don't add too many responses just to add responses, but if you see something funny about the action, just include it.
they're making a SEQUAL in the minds of many (don't even bother convincing us that it isn't a sequal...) and a sequal NEEDS to be BETTER than the original... now... they're making a sequal to one of the best games ever created... with 2 hour eppisodes... that isn't possible... and a warning to telltale of whitch i'm sure they're already aware: the advanture market is small... don't make it smaller by making people pay $20 for a 2 hour game...
Telltale have said episodes will be cheaper than Bone, which are what, $12 or so?
Somehow I think that's just talk. I'll be MIGHTY surprised if they manage that. I'm thinking more realistically one episode per 2/3 months.
I'll even bet on it.