It was not ALL bens fault

Yes he was stealing supplies to give to the bandits, but they HAD been leaving them alone, so it was Lee taking them away that caused them to attack, had Lilly just faced up to the fact that there were more bandits then them and she was beaten, none of it would have happend, at least not then, and duck would not have been bitten, so while Ben started the fire, Lee and Lilly droped a shit ton of gasoline on it......do you agree?

Comments

  • edited July 2013
    GODDAMNIT BEN. That's all I have to say.
  • edited July 2013
    And a meme is born, GODDAMNIT BEN.
  • edited July 2013
    Eh, Strong Six?
  • edited July 2013
    Its everyone's fault and no one's fault. Circumstances just pushed things in the wrong direction.
  • edited July 2013
    At least Ben died by doing what he does best: Getting someone else killed :)
  • edited July 2013
    Yes he was stealing supplies to give to the bandits, but they HAD been leaving them alone, so it was Lee taking them away that caused them to attack, had Lilly just faced up to the fact that there were more bandits then them and she was beaten, none of it would have happend, at least not then, and duck would not have been bitten, so while Ben started the fire, Lee and Lilly droped a shit ton of gasoline on it......do you agree?

    Actually, if Ben had faced up to the group what he had done instead of keeping it a secret (for no reason) then those events probably would have gone differently.
  • edited July 2013
    SonnyN18 wrote: »
    Actually, if Ben had faced up to the group what he had done instead of keeping it a secret (for no reason) then those events probably would have gone differently.

    Yeah, maybe Lilly would have summarily executed him right then.
  • edited July 2013
    Yeah, maybe so.
  • edited July 2013
    He may have been the worlds greatest fuck up, by I liked him for what ever reason.
  • edited July 2013
    He may have been the worlds greatest fuck up, by I liked him for what ever reason.

    Yeah, I think I liked him because I'd probably be as big of a fuck up as him in the ZA.
  • edited July 2013
    That and I am also about as old as him, but still if I was to look up the word screw up, dumbass, and fuck up you would find a picture of Ben, truth be told.
  • edited July 2013
    Yeah, he's one of the definitions of those words on the dictionary
  • edited July 2013
    Here we go again.........
  • edited July 2013
    SonnyN18 wrote: »
    Actually, if Ben had faced up to the group what he had done instead of keeping it a secret (for no reason) then those events probably would have gone differently.

    True, although the group would be upset they would at least be able to plan an ambush or an escape. He only comes clean when it is waaaaay too late..
  • edited July 2013
    That1Guy wrote: »
    GODDAMNIT BEN. That's all I have to say.

    This and also Goddammit Ben!!!!!!
  • edited July 2013
    If the group hadn't been so hostile and on edge Ben may have told Lee the truth and prevented the Bandits from attacking...
    The deal with the bandits kept them safe if not long term and if Ben had been honest or Lilly had been less paranoid and the bag was either never discovered or never disturbed the bandit attack wouldn't have taken place...
  • edited July 2013
    I agree, Ben's fault was more of a passive one. I actually don't think the deal with the bandits was a bad idea, his only fault was that he told no one. We all talk about how many lives he indirectly ended, but how about taking a moment to think who he might have saved? Without the deal, the bandits could have easily raided them at night sometime, possibly killing the watchman and hell knows who else. He may be a fuck up, and stupid, but he meant well, I can understand that. One of the reasons I chose not to drop him in the end.

    Anyway, the true fault, in my opinion, lies with Lilly. I understand the grief over her father's death, but that's no excuse to become a hostile bitch to just about anyone. Hell, she ain't the only one who lost her parents. Lee lost his family, Ben lost his, even Clementine lost hers and a goddamn child is taking it way better than her. Had she taken a moment to consider that she isn't the sole one who lost someone, as well as definetly not the only one with the group's best interests in mind- all this could have been avoided. Ben may not have been scared shitless enough to tell no one about the deal, Carley would not have been shot and Kenny wouldn't have joined the "I lost my family" squad. That's why I abandoned her without a second thought. Only wish I could have done it sooner.
  • edited July 2013
    I agree, Ben's fault was more of a passive one. I actually don't think the deal with the bandits was a bad idea, his only fault was that he told no one. We all talk about how many lives he indirectly ended, but how about taking a moment to think who he might have saved? Without the deal, the bandits could have easily raided them at night sometime, possibly killing the watchman and hell knows who else. He may be a fuck up, and stupid, but he meant well, I can understand that. One of the reasons I chose not to drop him in the end.

    Anyway, the true fault, in my opinion, lies with Lilly. I understand the grief over her father's death, but that's no excuse to become a hostile bitch to just about anyone. Hell, she ain't the only one who lost her parents. Lee lost his family, Ben lost his, even Clementine lost hers and a goddamn child is taking it way better than her. Had she taken a moment to consider that she isn't the sole one who lost someone, as well as definetly not the only one with the group's best interests in mind- all this could have been avoided. Ben may not have been scared shitless enough to tell no one about the deal, Carley would not have been shot and Kenny wouldn't have joined the "I lost my family" squad. That's why I abandoned her without a second thought. Only wish I could have done it sooner.
    The reason I pity Lilly and understand is she had her dad's head crushed right in front of her...
    Lee only saw walkers and Clem only saw walkers (and was pretty beaten up about it), Ben never knew their fate...
    Her Paranoia was caused by not her Father's death but the fact a member of the group murdered him right in front of her in a pretty brutal way...
  • edited July 2013
    Hudomonkey wrote: »
    The reason I pity Lilly and understand is she had her dad's head crushed right in front of her...
    Lee only saw walkers and Clem only saw walkers (and was pretty beaten up about it), Ben never knew their fate...
    Her Paranoia was caused by not her Father's death but the fact a member of the group murdered him right in front of her in a pretty brutal way...

    It doesn't matter if Lee and Clem's families were walkers , vampires , werewolves , leprechauns , they were still their families . I hate how you sympathise with Lilly's pain but you deny Lee and Clem's pain and suffering .
  • edited July 2013
    It doesn't matter if Lee and Clem's families were walkers , vampires , werewolves , leprechauns , they were still their families . I hate how you sympathise with Lilly's pain but you deny Lee and Clem's pain and suffering .
    I don't deny how Lee and Clem suffered especially Clem who still had hope of her parents still living
    I sympathise for Lee and how tough it was to take out his brother and I understand how terrible it was for Clem when she lost everyone so quickly but death by Walkers is less likely to make you and the group fall apart than a 'friend' bashing someone's head open

    Lilly was forced to lead a group when no one else was capable and she had no one left to trust and still managed to save everyone's lives in the Motor Inn when they were all almost executed

    Without her then they could have all died at the attack and if not for her paranoia induced by having no one to turn to she wouldn't have shot someone

    I don't like Lilly and she was responsible for killing Carley and attempting to kill ben which resulted in Doug playing the hero but the group had already fallen apart and no one else decided to take control as no one else was up to the task and was willing to take the lead
  • edited July 2013
    Hudomonkey wrote: »
    I don't like Lilly and she was responsible for killing Carley and attempting to kill ben which resulted in Doug playing the hero but the group had already fallen apart and no one else decided to take control as no one else was up to the task and was willing to take the lead

    About that "no one else was willing to take the lead" part- that's a real shame right there. Ever since Carley suggested it in episode 2, I thought to myself that I was going to make Lee step up and be the leader the group needs, as Lilly obviously wasn't suitable for the role anymore and Kenny was looking out for his family first and the group second. Unfortunately, even though characters suggest it, the game never truly gives us an opportunity to stand up and take the lead, at least not until Lilly's gone. It may have been the solution that prevented multiple deaths.
  • edited July 2013
    About that "no one else was willing to take the lead" part- that's a real shame right there. Ever since Carley suggested it in episode 2, I thought to myself that I was going to make Lee step up and be the leader the group needs, as Lilly obviously wasn't suitable for the role anymore and Kenny was looking out for his family first and the group second. Unfortunately, even though characters suggest it, the game never truly gives us an opportunity to stand up and take the lead, at least not until Lilly's gone. It may have been the solution that prevented multiple deaths.
    Lilly wasn't fit to lead and she knew it but no one else would...
    Kenny if he was in charge would care only about his family and would abandon and overall weaken the group
    Doug wasn't leader material as he was just the nice honest guy whilst Carley was to secretive and obviously wasn't trusted (well she did keep Lee's secret from the rest of the group)
    The only other people left are Ben and Lee and Ben is too young whilst Lee focused all his efforts on protecting Clem

    No one left alive was fit to lead the group and only without conflict could the group had survived which was impossible because of both Lilly and Kenny
  • edited July 2013
    Hudomonkey wrote: »
    Lilly wasn't fit to lead and she knew it but no one else would...
    Kenny if he was in charge would care only about his family and would abandon and overall weaken the group
    Doug wasn't leader material as he was just the nice honest guy whilst Carley was to secretive and obviously wasn't trusted (well she did keep Lee's secret from the rest of the group)
    The only other people left are Ben and Lee and Ben is too young whilst Lee focused all his efforts on protecting Clem

    No one left alive was fit to lead the group and only without conflict could the group had survived which was impossible because of both Lilly and Kenny

    Um Lilly was the only who never trusted Carley while the others trusted Carley including Lee , and i'm pretty sure Carley and Doug would refuse to be leaders because they couldn't handle the stress as a leader .
  • edited July 2013
    Thats also why Im a bit more understanding of Lilly. She's the only one who saw saw her only parent left brutally murdered in front of her eyes while she screamed and cried. That would mess up anyone's head. Why she didnt kill Kenny after this I dont know. I do agree that Ben probably didnt tell anyone because he was intimidated by Lilly who was hostile towards him from the very beginning.
  • edited July 2013
    KCohere wrote: »
    Thats also why Im a bit more understanding of Lilly. She's the only who saw saw her only parent left brutally murdered in front of her eyes while she screamed and cried. That would mess up anyone's head. Why she didnt kill Kenny after this I dont know. I do agree that Ben probably didnt tell anyone because he was intimidated by Lilly who was hostile towards him from the very beginning.

    Me either, instead she would rather kill Carley/Ben
  • edited July 2013
    Yes he was stealing supplies to give to the bandits, but they HAD been leaving them alone, so it was Lee taking them away that caused them to attack, had Lilly just faced up to the fact that there were more bandits then them and she was beaten, none of it would have happend, at least not then, and duck would not have been bitten, so while Ben started the fire, Lee and Lilly droped a shit ton of gasoline on it......do you agree?
    Wow! Are you really going to blame Lilly for the outcome of the bandit attack? You really think that the same people that kidnapped Joleen's daughter and possibly raped and killed her would have just left Clem,Carly and Kat alone if the group surrendered and gave them all their supplies? Letting them leave was not an option. There is no way they would have taken the supplies and just left leaving the whole group safe and intact to leave the motor inn and go onto Savannah. They were sleeping in tents outside, i'm pretty sure that they would have taken over the motor inn even with the supplies what with the comfortable beds and all. I mean they could have had a bed room each. Lilly didn't mess up a negotiation. The negotiation was a ruse, a means of distraction so Lilly could take up a good position to free the hostages. All things considered I think they got out of the ambush alright. They lost Duck but they could have all died there or the women could have been taken away by the bandits.

    Ben was not the leader it wasn't his call to make a big negotiation like that with the bandits about food and supplies he wasn't even risking his safety to get. The main reason he made the deal with the bandits was because he was scared about what the bandits would do to his friends which they told him were their hostages. Of course Ben isn't going to tell Kenny that when Kenny is about to tear him a new one so he tells Kenny a different excuse from what he told Lee on the train which was that he was doing it so the bandits didn't attack the motor inn.

    Ben had no right taking anything without clearing it with the group's leader. Plain and simple. There is a hierarchy in group dynamics. He was a new recruit and technically still on probation. He should have asked for supplies and explained why he wanted them and been honest from the start. His sneaky behaviour caused additional stress on Lilly making her question her own sanity when she was right about supplies going missing causing her to commit voluntary manslaughter. Yes I said it voluntary manslaughter by definition is when one person intends to kill another but does so suddenly and as a result of great personal distress. (The Wrongdoer must have become very upset before the killing.)http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=manslaughter
  • edited July 2013
    Hudomonkey wrote: »
    If the group hadn't been so hostile and on edge Ben may have told Lee the truth and prevented the Bandits from attacking...
    The deal with the bandits kept them safe if not long term and if Ben had been honest or Lilly had been less paranoid and the bag was either never discovered or never disturbed the bandit attack wouldn't have taken place...
    If Lee didn't find the supplies and the bandits took what was left for them they may have been o.k that day but the supplies would have run out eventually without any supplies to gather from the shopping district, since Kenny said the town was picked clean the bandits would have turned on Lee's group eventually and later might have been worse as they may not have had ammunition for their guns to fight back by then.
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