Issues with Season 2. Not just, or even mainly the 90min factor.
Lots of good criticism about Season 2 going around here, and a lot of it has been focused on the shift to the 90 minute format. Personally I think too much focus is being put on that. Here are my problems.
- "X WILL REMEMBER THAT"
No they won't! At all! Aside from references to some events in Season 1, no one has been remembering anything at all.
For example, I blackmailed Alvin in episode 1. This was NEVER referenced again, and there was no tone shift in the dialogue between Alvin and Clem, or even Rebecca. I think at most, Rebecca might accuse you of "manipulating Alvin" at the dinner table in EP1. But that could happen either way, I haven't checked to make sure.
In Episode 1, Carlos gave me the whole "you are not to be trusted" spiel. Clearly, our relationship got off to a bad start - maybe it will develop further from there? But it doesn't matter, because his dialogue in the next few episodes doesn't actually check for this at all. "Carlos will remember that?" maybe he did, but he sure never said anything about it, and now he's dead.
Been a total asshole to Luke this entire time? He doesn't seem to mind. He reacts based on your dialogue choices in the present conversation rather than any that you've made in the past. Same with EVERYONE ELSE!
Even Kenny, *THE* poster boy for Season 1's relationship variation, acts the same no matter what.
Nothing that you say changes anything beyond what happens immediately following. This is in stark contrast to season 1, where Lily, Ben and Kenny were all highly polarizing characters that reacted very differently towards Lee depending on both how you acted towards them in dialogue and what your major choices were, and this began in the first few episodes. In season 2, everyone so far is the same no matter what you do or say. Maybe this will change in episode 4 and 5 - maybe not. Either way, that's far too late.
I can remember 2 things I've said in Season 2 so far that were referenced later. 1) If you tell Pete & Luke that you're alone, they reference it in the same episode when arguing about what to do with you. 2) If you blackmail Alvin, Rebecca has her "Don't think you can manipulate me like Alvin" line. That's it. Not even minor references.
- ENTIRELY FORGOTTEN PLOT STRINGS
Remember how you find Pete's corpse, and he was shot in the head? Remember when Carver told you his name was George, and then later accuses Alvin of having murdered someone named George? Remember the shootout at the River, implied to be Carver's doing?
Remember how all of these plot points were introduced and then quickly forgotten? Carver is now dead, we've left his compound, the chance to resolve them is effectively over. It's pure laziness that they were never brought up again.
- "DUMB" WRITING
Remember when everyone was theorizing that Carlos might not have been a doctor since he couldn't recognize a dog bite? In episode 3, it's revealed that Carlos is actually a real doctor.
Maybe Carlos wanted Clem dead in episode 1. Maybe he forgot how to be a doctor at that moment. Maybe it was just bad writing. If it's the former, we're given no indication of this at all in the following episodes. Not even subtle hints. That's bad writing. So either way... it's just bad writing.
Remember when Clem sees the flashlights across the bridge? Of course, the reunion with Kenny takes precedence for a time, but then Clem finally tells Alvin and Rebecca about the lights. You'd think she'd have the option to do so earlier, but ok...
Their reaction? "That sounds bad! Let's leave in the morning."
Guys you just crossed the bridge. You KNOW it wouldn't take them all damn night to get to you. Then guess what? They show up soon after. The player rolls their eyes while the characters act all surprised.
- MINOR DETAILS
A lot of minor details that could all add up to a better experience have been skipped over. For example, re-used animation and sounds. I've heard Clem make the same "grunt" sound 10 times over by now. I've seen the same character animations 10 times over.
Look at Carver's face when Luke and Kenny jump him at the end of Episode 3, his expression is the same the entire time.
Remember some of the Clem death scenes from Episode 1? You never actually saw her die or anything gruesome, but they were impactful because you saw Lee reacting to them with lines specifically recorded for them. In Episode 3, when Carver shoots Clem during a failure scene, she makes a generic, recycled grunt sound and falls to the ground. The other characters, all right there, don't have any lines. No "NO!! CLEM!" from Kenny or anything like that. That's all.
These are little things but they make a big difference when added together.
Anyway that's my take on things. I could write a lot more but I think that's enough to illustrate my points.
- "X WILL REMEMBER THAT"
No they won't! At all! Aside from references to some events in Season 1, no one has been remembering anything at all.
For example, I blackmailed Alvin in episode 1. This was NEVER referenced again, and there was no tone shift in the dialogue between Alvin and Clem, or even Rebecca. I think at most, Rebecca might accuse you of "manipulating Alvin" at the dinner table in EP1. But that could happen either way, I haven't checked to make sure.
In Episode 1, Carlos gave me the whole "you are not to be trusted" spiel. Clearly, our relationship got off to a bad start - maybe it will develop further from there? But it doesn't matter, because his dialogue in the next few episodes doesn't actually check for this at all. "Carlos will remember that?" maybe he did, but he sure never said anything about it, and now he's dead.
Been a total asshole to Luke this entire time? He doesn't seem to mind. He reacts based on your dialogue choices in the present conversation rather than any that you've made in the past. Same with EVERYONE ELSE!
Even Kenny, *THE* poster boy for Season 1's relationship variation, acts the same no matter what.
Nothing that you say changes anything beyond what happens immediately following. This is in stark contrast to season 1, where Lily, Ben and Kenny were all highly polarizing characters that reacted very differently towards Lee depending on both how you acted towards them in dialogue and what your major choices were, and this began in the first few episodes. In season 2, everyone so far is the same no matter what you do or say. Maybe this will change in episode 4 and 5 - maybe not. Either way, that's far too late.
I can remember 2 things I've said in Season 2 so far that were referenced later. 1) If you tell Pete & Luke that you're alone, they reference it in the same episode when arguing about what to do with you. 2) If you blackmail Alvin, Rebecca has her "Don't think you can manipulate me like Alvin" line. That's it. Not even minor references.
- ENTIRELY FORGOTTEN PLOT STRINGS
Remember how you find Pete's corpse, and he was shot in the head? Remember when Carver told you his name was George, and then later accuses Alvin of having murdered someone named George? Remember the shootout at the River, implied to be Carver's doing?
Remember how all of these plot points were introduced and then quickly forgotten? Carver is now dead, we've left his compound, the chance to resolve them is effectively over. It's pure laziness that they were never brought up again.
- "DUMB" WRITING
Remember when everyone was theorizing that Carlos might not have been a doctor since he couldn't recognize a dog bite? In episode 3, it's revealed that Carlos is actually a real doctor.
Maybe Carlos wanted Clem dead in episode 1. Maybe he forgot how to be a doctor at that moment. Maybe it was just bad writing. If it's the former, we're given no indication of this at all in the following episodes. Not even subtle hints. That's bad writing. So either way... it's just bad writing.
Remember when Clem sees the flashlights across the bridge? Of course, the reunion with Kenny takes precedence for a time, but then Clem finally tells Alvin and Rebecca about the lights. You'd think she'd have the option to do so earlier, but ok...
Their reaction? "That sounds bad! Let's leave in the morning."
Guys you just crossed the bridge. You KNOW it wouldn't take them all damn night to get to you. Then guess what? They show up soon after. The player rolls their eyes while the characters act all surprised.
- MINOR DETAILS
A lot of minor details that could all add up to a better experience have been skipped over. For example, re-used animation and sounds. I've heard Clem make the same "grunt" sound 10 times over by now. I've seen the same character animations 10 times over.
Look at Carver's face when Luke and Kenny jump him at the end of Episode 3, his expression is the same the entire time.
Remember some of the Clem death scenes from Episode 1? You never actually saw her die or anything gruesome, but they were impactful because you saw Lee reacting to them with lines specifically recorded for them. In Episode 3, when Carver shoots Clem during a failure scene, she makes a generic, recycled grunt sound and falls to the ground. The other characters, all right there, don't have any lines. No "NO!! CLEM!" from Kenny or anything like that. That's all.
These are little things but they make a big difference when added together.
Anyway that's my take on things. I could write a lot more but I think that's enough to illustrate my points.
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Comments
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix6RsXktUFo&t=1m36s
Hell, you don't even tell Luke this. Luke, the one who's idea it was to have you check back over the bridge in the first place. As far as the player knows, he's completely unaware of the flashlights.
In comparison, Season 2 seems very lazy.
People say its cause they got these other projectsin making, writers, 90 minute run time, too many characters etc. and i dont know really who to blame here.
I feel it would have been better if Telltale had most of their work force working on Walking Dead and The Wolf Among Us with some working on both Tales From the Borderlands and Game of Thrones and then announce both Tales From the Borderlands and Game of Thrones at E3 this year, and schedule them to be released mid-late 2015 whilst focusing the whole of 2014 on Wolf Among Us and The Walking Dead.
I also feel bad that Gary Whitta and Sean Vanaman left as they were pretty damn good writers, but then again I can't wait to see what games arrive from Campo Santo and it's nice to have multiple game companies turning to point-and-click adventures.
I can't feel any love put into this season compared to the previous one
Now with Season 2 you have Clementine whom by no means is built like Lee cannot DIRECTLY affect situations at times but more like a chain reaction (like with Nick's fate) I personally like this and it's more clever than the in your face "Oh boy Lee i'm dangling off the edge of this bell tower we have like literally 2 minutes to waste here and nothing will happen to anyone else because we clearly have enough time so CHOICE TIME". I think given that Clem is still a child they've done some pretty nice and clever choices with her even if it doesn't show right away. Remember we still have 2 more episodes to go but even then we have more "diverse" paths going forward than Season 1 had which is partially why I feel they lowered the amount of time it takes to complete episodes because let's face it nobody likes backtracking through Crawford and with the diversity and less walls blocking you from the plot it really enhances how replayable it is. I do wish Telltale would give us the option to talk to characters more like in the cabin , lodge , camp but we shall see but going forward i'm really loving this season.
Clementine is important and a capable member of the group... and yet still a kid. That does not mean that her words and actions can't influence the way the adults act; she did it all the time with **us** in Walter's position back in Season 1. That was, to me, one of the best choices this season, second to staying or leaving to see Carver's facial reconstruction and - depending on how they handle that - the situation with Sarita's arm.
EDIT: Although the aftermaths of those choices are still disappointing.
they HAD the chance for a more diverse path. after saving doug or carley, they were still around doing stuff and talked, alvin was pretty much mute for all of episode 3 up until his last stand, and nick turned into a wall flower. it is nice to see them try something different from the "instant gratification" way to kill off determinants, but episode 3 felt like they said "well, these people are gonna die anyway, so there's no reason to try building on them." nick may have manged to survive into episode 4, but he was seriously shafted in episode 3, and it's a miracle they didn't just say "eh, fuck it. let's just kill him off in the herd, too."
even pete's death was something of a disappointment. it would have been nice if your choices, as well as giving him the water, drove him to try and hold out long enough to say goodbye to nick. as things went, the water meant nothing beyond a moral choice that popped up at the end of episode 1, and everything else was the same, regardless. and if you didn't go with nick in episode 1, he says his bit at the bridge instead. all you miss out on there is a sip of moonshine.
you can hardly call it diverse when alvin's last stand is the only thing that one can consider truly added or lost to the determinant death of 2 characters within an entire episode. doug made the warning system and helped out with his laser pointer, i forget what carley added to episode 2 beyond helping vs the st johns with her gun, and both came forward with batteries for the camera/walkie talkie. while they didn't have a strong impact, they atleast felt present during the time they were around.
Well, that sucks. Another waste.
I mean, it opens up some potentially interesting development for Sarah and Clem's relationship (which is also quite undeveloped, if you ask me), but his character deserved something more before dying. Too late for that this episode, I guess.
But it also might not be, if s2 so far is any indication. And that's the concern here.
And, finally, the lenght of the episodes. If the episodes were longer we could have more character developpement ( *cough* hubs *cough* ).