"Neurotypical"
Not only are people using the phrase wrong, thinking if they do a quick wiki search it means they know everything there ever was to know about mental illness, people who claim to be on the spectrum say they "identify" with some of the things Sarah does, e.g. Panic attacks (which of course can happen to everyone and isn't exclusive to ASD) So because they identify with her, it places her on the spectrum, even though the writers have given no indication of her being mentally unwell, apart from episode 4 where she thinks going back to the cabin will be safe and her Dad will be there.
People need to stop assigning personality traits to Sarah which simply aren't true, and they need to stop abusing those her disagree with their point of view. "I don't think she's disabled... she wasn't going to make it without knowledge of how the world really is." apparently translates to us wanted disabled people to die a grizzly death. The fact of the matter is, people who don't adapt WILL die. That's evolution. If a ZA occurred, the first to go would be the elderly, disabled and young children. Do I want this? Of course not.
People saying Sarah is on the spectrum is like me saying I identify with Clementines loses, so really I'm Clementine. Complete bullshit, eh? People die unfair deaths all the time, and Sarah was just racking up the death count. People may think she died an unfair death, but then so did Doug/Carley, Duck, Brie, Ben, Lee, Omid, Pete, Carlos and Nick. Where are the hate threads for them?
Comments
A lot of the recent outrage is more towards the callous way the host of Playing Dead laughed about letting her die horribly, along with how the Telltale representatives laughed along with him. I, at the very least, am bothered because Sarah represents a group of people who are already quite maligned in American society - the mentally ill - and the treatment of her death seems to encourage that stigma rather than call it out.
We don't need The Walking Dead - a game that is supposed to be about retaining your humanity - to affirm the viewpoint that weak people are doomed no matter what and it's okay to laugh when they die horribly.
Well said.
Sarah does NOT represent the mentally ill. Sarah represents what would happen to a child had they been sheltered from the brutality and not taught to survive, and those unfit to combat the world she lived in. Not because she's mentally ill - because she's not, but because she had no knowledge of the world around her because Carlos kept her from it. I'm sorry to say it, but because she was unable to help out with the group and unable to fend for herself, she became a liability - one which I was prepared to live with until she fell underneath the deck.
Thank you. People on the internet will find an excuse to get angry over anything sadly.
yea and most of these people are from this community
Prepare for downvotes. The internet is a rabid, unreasonable, offended machine. I for one agree with you though
Unfortunately.
You're not wrong. I'm not fussed about downvotes to be honest, the system is kind of childish in my opinion. It's like someone going "No you're wrong, I'm not going to say why you're wrong but you're wrong."
I agree with all of this. I mean this is a zombie apocalypse game, and an apocalypse doesn't care about political correctness. People die, and depending on their age or disability their death will be sooner rather than later.
Sarah is probably mentally ill. She probably has aspergers.
Hang on, so you’re saying that because Sarah’s traits can be observed in both people on and off the spectrum, it is wrong to assume that she’s on the spectrum? From what you’re saying, there’s nothing proving one or the other, so your argument doesn’t hold much weight either… And keep in mind this is coming from someone with little knowledge on the subject, but I thought that missing social cues, a very noticeable trait of Sarah’s, is also something commonly associated with autism???
Also, keep in mind that one reason Sarah’s death caused such an outrage is because it was so transparently obvious that the writers didn’t care about her character; they made up the most convoluted, contrived, illogical way for her to die just to get rid of her (why didn’t anyone tell her to stay with Kenny and Rebecca? What was she even doing out on the balcony? Why did no one go down to help Jane? Why did no one shoot the walkers? Why did no one shoot Sarah?). She didn’t just die an unfair death; she died a badly written death, and her supporters are understandably miffed about that, especially since this is a game known for its good writing.
People can relate to characters in a story. People saw Sarah as a girl with obvious issues, it isn't a hard stretch to see why people would feel this way about her. Try to be a little bit more understanding.
Her panic attacks, her social cluelessness, her hatred of being touched - all signs of her having some sort of mental disorder to deal with, which are compounded by a father who certainly didn't raise her to act like any ordinary teenager. Many people have picked up on these cues and, regardless of the writers' intentions, players who actually have mental illnesses or know people with such have identified her as such. It's not smart, or even good business, to disregard the potential audience that might have liked this character as representing a group of real people.
And spare me the nonsense about 'reality being politically incorrect', because that's already been debunked a lot of times by the amount of ridiculous things that happened this season (Kenny screaming in a horde and not getting eaten, Carver not being injured at all by having a big hole in his shoulder, Clem kicking in a door that withstood a pack of corpses). The truth is that this is a fictional story about underdogs surviving in a horrible disaster, not a fantasy where heartlessness is synonymous with being 'badass'.
Sarah showed plenty of potential and will to grow out of her initial incompetence, and that was cruelly snatched away by ridiculous circumstances. The problem is more with people who write her off without even giving her a chance and feeling validated. It'd be far more interesting (and amusing for me) if, in fact, 'weak' characters like her survived and thrived to the constant chagrin of the smug.
This, I can agree with. If you disagree with someone's opinion, at least have the courtesy to explain why.
People don't like it when a character they can relate to is mocked and treated as an afterthought. It's a pretty understandable and predictable reaction. If a person is frustrated, then they are going to vent somewhere. That place for this issue is here. Unfortunately, whenever someone simply expresses an opinion, other people consider it ramming their viewpoint down other people's throats or being a crybaby. People are just explaining what they saw in Sarah's character and why they thought that Miller's reaction to her death was messed up. Everybody has their venting threads about their favorite character, so Sarah fans should have theirs.
I never said anything about 'reality being politically incorrect' and I'm a bit concerned that you're twisting my words so badly. Again, I never mentioned anything about being a badass and you're twisting my words immensely. "Hatred of being touched" she seemed pretty okay with Clem and Carlos touching her when rubbing her up in Walker guts. It was only after Carlos bit the dust she didn't want to be touched, probably because her only sense of security was just eaten in front of her.
I clearly can't win and I'm sincerely getting sick of people coming up with reasons she's on the spectrum. If and when Telltale states "Yeah, we made her out to have mental illness instead of you know, being sheltered and treated like a little girl." will I accept it. But that hasn't happened and is unlikely to happen. You know, Kenny's stress levels are going through the roof, getting overly aggressive with people and not reading social cues e.g. Carver going to give him a beating. He's clearly Autistic. Despite the evidence we have to understand why he is the way he is, he's autistic because I identify with him. If that's the argument you're going to go with, may as well throw Ben into the Autistic train. He was extremely panicky and couldn't see the tension back when he was brought into the Motel, and couldn't tell the bandits were lying to him about his friend.
Life is unfair in real life and in TWD. People who don't deserve death die every single day. Sarah's death was unfair, but maybe if Carlos had taught her the horrors of the world, like Lee had to Clementine, she would have made it a bit farther and she wouldn't have been as broken.
It's not hard to see she has issues, but these issues were preventable. Whereas ASD is not.
But calling people who disagree with them Ableists, and giving them outright abuse isn't a way to vent about a death. As far as I'm aware, with Nick's death everyone grieved together. People find different reasons to play in TWD, retaining humanity, survival etc and for some people getting rid of Sarah bettered their chance of survival. I saved her and tried SO hard to help Sarah, and just as it seemed to be working she died. People think I hate Sarah, but I had to pause the game and swear my head off after she died.
Because the plot demands it. If I knew why they killed her off, I'd tell you. We can only assume why, and for me it's to show how unfair the world is to people, not the mentally ill, but people. If Luke was standing where Sarah was, he would have taken her place. But he didn't, because from Telltale's standpoint there is still more story to tell.
For me it's not about her dying in itself. Doug and Carley's sudden deaths, for example, were memorable. Plus, every character pretty much dies in this series, so Sarah's death is not unexpected. But first you just have to leave her to die or slap her. Then she falls down and dies immediately after that, and none of her companions even really care. That last bit really felt off to me (and it applies to Nick, too).
I do agree that slapping a label on someone who didn't like Sarah is going a bit far. Many people didn't (or frankly don't) see the mentally handicapped angle with Sarah, so all they saw was an overly sheltered kid who didn't do much from the group. I can see why people wouldn't want to deal with a character like that. I'm not saying that you're the type of person who wanted her gone, as you are obviously not, but you are a person who didn't see her as mentally handicapped, so you can see her flaws better. The fact is, many people saw her as a mentally handicapped character, and there aren't many characters like that in a story. It was a great opportunity to do something unique while also having a character that people who a struggling with mental diseases could relate to and feel proud of. In the end, what caused her mental state is ambiguous, and her coming of age opportunity never came to fruition. So, it seems to me that people really got their hopes up, and they are very upset that their hopes got dashed. I don't think there's many Sarah fans out there that truly believe that Telltale is an ableist company that hates people who are facing depression. I just think they are reading between a lot of lines right now because they are pissed.
That's just me doe.
I think we should give people time to react. Maybe all the deaths will get mentioned in episode 5? We don't know.
They could just as easily have conveyed the message of "the world is unfair" through more believable means. My point isn't about Sarah's possible autism, her death on the balcony was simply poor writing in every sense of the word. Several people have already posted their alternative rewrites of Sarah's death on this forum, ones that actually make sense. There was simply no reason for Sarah to have died the way she did. Look at it this way; people would have been just as upset if, say, Kenny had died in a completely illogical and easily preventable manner.
I hope you can at least understand why people are so upset with her death; it's not just that she was relatable, she did not get a well-written or meaningful death, unlike Carley, Duck, Ben, Lee, etc. If Telltale was trying to get the message of "the world is unfair", they did it horribly. Duck's death conveyed this message well; it was accidental, sudden, tragic, it made sense, and it had an impact on the characters and plot. Sarah's death did not convey that message; it was illogical, easily preventable, completely out of character for everyone involved, and had literally no impact whatsoever on anything or anyone at all except maybe Jane, and she left pretty much immediately afterwards.
It is believable though. In the trailer, she died because she gave up and people thought the had no choice, but Sarah wasn't in the state of mind to comprehend what was going on until it was to late. On the balcony, it collapsed from underneath her and possibly broke her legs. Neither of those are fair in the slightest and were out of her control entirely. Poor writing I agree, but that's the death she was given. If Kenny died from say, a splinter, there would be outrage of how stupid it would be. Nothing we can do though, as the writers would have already made it so.
Look, can you at least acknowledge that, ignoring the autism debate, Sarah's death was very poorly written? Even if her death is acknowledged next episode, it does not change the fact that her second death in episode 4 was unbelievable and contrived, and the characters had basically no reaction at all to a teenage girl they clearly cared about being brutally devoured a few feet in front of them.
It's not a real apocalypse. It is a story.
People who are actually disabled in real life have a lot more validity in saying whether or not a character is disabled than you do. They can recognize and identify certain traits that they themselves have.
Why does the idea of people looking to characters as representation anger you so much?
Also, I think you meant "neuroatypical", here. Neurotypical, without the A, refers to people who are not cognitively/emotionally disabled.
It really isn’t believable. Never mind the fact that it’s very heavily implied that Sarah regained her will to live after the trailer (running from the walkers, begging to be saved), there was no reason for the other characters to do literally nothing to help her, or hell, even just shoot her to put her out of her misery. There was literally not one single justification for the way they acted in that scene. It was stupid, simply put, and that is one major reason people are outraged with the death. That’s all I’m trying to say. It’s not only that Sarah is relatable to autistic people; her death was an example of nonsensical and contrived writing, something people didn’t expect from this series. You asked why there aren't hate threads for Carley, Duck, or Lee's deaths, so there you go.
And nothing we can do about bad writing? That’s a rather defeatist attitude. We need to criticize the writers when they do a poor job because, well, writing is their job.
By the way, is Sarah on the spectrum or not? You didn't reply to that part of my post, and there are plenty of posters (autistic people, psychology students) who have claimed that Sarah is clearly implied to suffer some kind of developmental disorder. Like I said, I don't know much about the topic, so I really have no idea who to believe.
I've already told you that it was poorly written. But it's all we're going to get, and you can't accept that for some reason.
Yeah, because living and dealing with ASD my entire life means I have absolutely no validity in what I say.
Alright, I'm fed up with the apparent experts. How do I close a discussion because this is fucking ridiculous?
I explained in my post above that the reason I'm stressing this point is that you seemed to be confused why her "unfair death" garnered much more hate than those of Carley, Lee, etc. Sarah's death is getting hate because it was horribly written. Can you understand the hate now?
And I'll just copy paste what I posted above:
There's nothing we can do about bad writing? That’s a rather defeatist attitude. We need to criticize the writers when they do a poor job because, well, writing is their job.
Er, you still haven't really responded to my posts (in this thread, and one other) why your experiences as someone with ASD completely invalidate those of others on the spectrum and how they view Sarah as possibly autistic.
This should be posted as a response to the discussion you mentioned, it doesn't warrant it's own discussion.
Then I apologize for making assumptions. But you don't have the validity to speak over other people. Your experience isn't the same as everyone else's experience.
Yeah, can you please just explain why your experiences make you and you alone the expert on this subject Echopapa? You're basically saying "I'm on the spectrum, therefore I have authority on this topic". But there are other posters who are also on the spectrum claiming that, based on their experiences, they think Sarah is implied to be autistic. What makes their arguments invalid?
whoops, double post
(Where I live atleast) it takes a lot of conversations with, and tests from a team of professionals specialized in autism before someone gets a diagnosis. So it's kind of silly for a forum community to determine what is, or isn't wrong with Sarah based on a couple of scenes in a game.
But it's just as silly to say she is the way she is because she was sheltered.
On a sidenote, as someone with pdd-nos I relate most to Ben, who is just your average neuotypical kid really. It's a really wide spectrum.
Yeah, pretty much. I find it odd that OP seems so passionately convinced that his point of view is correct even though there's really no concrete evidence to support it, and yet criticizes others for passionately believing points of view that don't have concrete evidence behind them either.
No one will really know unless Telltale says something definitive. Honestly, I think people are too quick to jump to the conclusion that there is something "wrong" with people if they aren't completely well-adjusted. It's a valid possibility, but I still think it's just a leap without being shown some type of evidence besides her behavior.
Fair enough, yeah, it certainly does take a lot of testing. But a lot of autistic fans related to Sarah and embraced her as positive representation, and I think that's very important.