Those are good points, except for the fact that even if you didn't rob him the Russians specifically mention the medicine. At no point is the gun mentioned in the exchange. They didn't come after us because Jane took his gun, they came after us because despite letting him leave with the medicine, Arvo then hides it and tells his group we stole it. I repeat, due to the in game dialogue, we know that they attack us because Arvo lied and said we stole the medicine, not the gun. That is what makes him a "villain". That he took the medicine for himself and led his group to rob us. He used us for his own purposes. The only reason he protests the standoff is because we drew guns and he was exposed and in the line of fire. That was more concern for his own safety than any good will towards us imo.
Also, I don't understand what evidence you are basing your opinion of the Russians on? You say they are hostile, but again, the translations of the Russian dialogue indicates that they didn't want to kill us and kept telling Arvo to tell us to put our guns down. They also only fired after we fired the first shot. I mean, if there as bad as you say, why not kill us right away? You see him as some poor victim, but the way I see it he was stealing medicine from his own group, and then intentionally led them to us after making up some story about how we robbed him. The Russians probably attacked us not cuz they were hostile, but cuz Arvo made it seem like we were scavengers who steal from crippled kids. Also, if he was telling the truth about his sister being sick, how bad can the Russians be if they were willing to keep a sick woman and her injured brother with them?
"Little girl" or not, it is common sense to train a weapon on those you are not familiar with, and especially those who sneak up behind you … more(and since Jane ended up ambushing him, he was right in his initial distrust). He just wanted to leave peacefully (though who really knows why he came in the first place). I will point out also that Arvo is limping in the scene before you even interact with him, so he was injured at some point, though it was probably recent given his skittish behavior (I can think of a couple possibilities). He also never outright lies to you, telling you the meds are for his sister (nothing we can prove, though we do see he actually has a sister) and he even tells you he has many "friends" (though he could be using the word loosely, his English comes off as second hand).
Even if you don't take his meds, you (specifically Jane, but its all the same to him and his group) still took his gun. While we can argue about the… [view original content]
Lol, Ohio is pretty landlocked dude. Would have to be a pretty big step to get from the Artic to there
But anyway, I don't think he is evil for the sake of evil. But I also don't think he was some kind of victim either. The way I see it, he was intentionally stealing medicine from his group for his own purposes. He then decided to lie and make us seem like bandits who steal from crippled kids and then lead his group to ambush us because it suited his purpose and he knew he could get away with it. And then when his sister got shot, he decided to blame Clem and focused on getting revenge. I think he would have figured out his sis was a walker if he thought about it, but that instead he focused on hating Clem because it's easier then blaming himself. I think he shot Clem in cold blood cuz he is self centered and blames other people for his mistakes.
Well we don't know now, do we? Arvo's backstory isn't explained at all. For all we know he just stepped foot off a dang boat circling the Ar… morectic. It's as valid an interpretation as any and makes sense narratively speaking for him to have not ever seen anyone come back from anything except walker bites. Otherwise, he has no motivation to shoot Clem and it's just plain lazy writing (which it is, but still it's obvious he believed his sister was still alive and not a zombie.)
And I wasn't saying his reason for shooting Clem was her association with Kenny. Sorry I didn't fully write out my thoughts clearly. I just remembered how annoyed I was playing the game that every character lumped Clem in as being super close with Kenny for no discernible reason. I mentioned it here to mean that Arvo could possibly have been afraid of and hated Clem because of her association with Kenny, enough to color his perception of Clem no matter how you play her t… [view original content]
I still don't understand why people keep saying the Russians were crazy? Nothing in their dialogue indicates that they were mistreating Arvo and his sister in any way.
It's really tragic, if you think about it. He only did what he did because he wanted to escape from the crazy guys with his sister, but she ended up dead in the end.
How is luring everyone into a trap and demanding their belongings flimsy reasoning?
His motives arent at question here. His actions deserved the punishment. Clearly at the very least his sister fully agreed with the plan as she pulled her gun on them as well, besides which, if he had any sense of morality, he would have realized his sister was armed and that others would at the VERY least consider her a threat.
I dont need to explain his crimes again, they are blatant and overt. His actions after the shootout are irrelevant to that. Each of his transgressions was punished appropriately. Attempting to rob the group, he gets punched and taken prisoner, trying to escape, gets a beating. I wanted to gun him down when they were stealing the truck, because at that point he clearly cant ever be trusted, but it wasnt an option. Him shooting Clem is moot at that point, because he already deserved to die at that point.
He returns to his group, even if you don't take the medicine, without his weapon, which is a huge commodity in the zombie apocalypse. They l… moreikely inquired about what happened. Was he about to lie to his group just because Clem convinced Jane to let him go? Most likely they forced him to lead them to Clementine, act as a distraction for the ambush, and to translate their demands. They are likely a bunch of thugs and he was merely along for the ride because of complicated relationships that we aren't given a chance to be privy to. He then loses his sister right in front of his eyes and ends up being taken prisoner. And then derided and hounded and savagely beaten (even though he was defenseless and fully cooperating).
So, as was posited to you already, what were his crimes again? Shooting Clem? The whole point of this post is to set aside your emotions and prejudices to try and see things from a different perspective, rather than just hate on a guy based on flimsy (at best) reasoning.
Arvo has it in for Clem no matter how you treat him. Give Mike the gun, don't give Mike the gun...he'll pop a bullet in Clem's shoulder anyway. (I wonder if he was ever really aware that his sister had become a zombie? Or did he just assume Clem shot her in cold blood?)
i forgot to add this but if he so much as glares at my clementine i'll tell him to leave or shoot him i won't give him a 2ed chance to kill her that's how i feel if he pulls a gun then i'll shoot him
I think people just hate him because he shot you. At that point, they stop caring why and they just want to rationalize their hatred so they paint him in the worst possible light. Attempts to explain his reaction or feelings are then seen as trying to justify him shooting you, which MUST be wrong, so the argument is clearly flawed.
You people need to stop with this 'Arvo is pure evil' bull, because he clearly isn't. He might not show compassion to Clementine or her grou… morep but he does to his sister--enough so that he feels compelled to exact revenge against the person he believed to have killed her. YES, he made an incredibly shitty decision and NO, you don't have to take pity on him or forgive him--because I, for the last time, d o n o t take any sort of pity on him--you just have to understand that he's a human being just like everyone else and has his own personal weaknesses and faults.
End line--he's no Hitler.
After thinking about the situation I could see things a little better, first Bonnie died on the lake in my game so it was just Mike & Arvo leaving. Mike liked Clem but she was linked to Kenny therefore taking her was not an option, and Jane would not abandon Clem so trying to get Jane to leave was not an option. So Mike was down to leave , but the supplies and truck were owned by Arvo's group in his mind he was taking what was his.
He wasn't aware, in the translation video right before Clementine shoots her he says 'I need to see if she's alright' and he breaks away from Kenny just in time to see Clementine pop her in the head, so from his perspective, Clem shot his sister while she was still alive. They never gave us the dialogue option to explain to him and that was probably intentional so it could move the plot along and have Clementine get shot.
The translation explains the hatred he has towards her. Clementine being nice to him afterwards means nothing to him, he likely lost his only family member. The one chance you do get to talk to him you can say 'I'm sorry about your sister' and that probably makes him feel like she was mocking him or something because in his eyes, she is the 'murderer'.
This of course does not make what he did to her okay, but at least it makes more sense now to know that he didn't know his sister turned.
Arvo has it in for Clem no matter how you treat him. Give Mike the gun, don't give Mike the gun...he'll pop a bullet in Clem's shoulder anyw… moreay. (I wonder if he was ever really aware that his sister had become a zombie? Or did he just assume Clem shot her in cold blood?)
You're trolling right? Arvo doesn't even have a gun when the Russians show up. AJ and Arvo are literally the only unarmed characters in the … moreentire standoff xD At best, he'd be an accessory to the crime since he was translating the Russians' demands. Anyway, armed robbery or even murder doesn't come with a "beating to death" sentence. How Kenny treated him was wrong and cruel, plain and simple. Kenny didn't even try to cause Carver, a guy who personally killed Kenny's friends, as much pain and suffering as he did Arvo.
You may not be trolling, but you're clearly deadset on dismissing all evidence that doesn't fit your biased position. It's telling that you see no fault in defending Kenny's defiance to his captor while hating on Arvo for essentially doing the same thing.
How is luring everyone into a trap and demanding their belongings flimsy reasoning?
His motives arent at question here. His actions deser… moreved the punishment. Clearly at the very least his sister fully agreed with the plan as she pulled her gun on them as well, besides which, if he had any sense of morality, he would have realized his sister was armed and that others would at the VERY least consider her a threat.
I dont need to explain his crimes again, they are blatant and overt. His actions after the shootout are irrelevant to that. Each of his transgressions was punished appropriately. Attempting to rob the group, he gets punched and taken prisoner, trying to escape, gets a beating. I wanted to gun him down when they were stealing the truck, because at that point he clearly cant ever be trusted, but it wasnt an option. Him shooting Clem is moot at that point, because he already deserved to die at that point.
Well, Clementine shot his sister, saving her own life, and so his sister didn't have to be a walker.. If Arvo thought Natasha was still alive, and not a walker, then Arvo is clearly stupid. He deserved to get beaten by Kenny, because he shot Clem. I hope he'll starve to death, and then gets devoured by walkers.
Arvo tries to escape what he KNOWS is rightful punishment for what he did. Him leading them to the cabin and giving them supplies is the right thing to do. Attempting to escape that is the wrong thing to do and so he is punished. Once again, Arvo is treated far better than he treated the others, he is lucky his captors are so merciful.
Kenny should not have been imprisoned in the first place, he has every right to try to escape and its rational for others to realize it isnt right for him to be held captive. Carver is just a bastard trying to make life better for himself at the cost of the freedom of others, similar to how Arvo is trying to make the lives of others worse to make his own better.
You may not be trolling, but you're clearly deadset on dismissing all evidence that doesn't fit your biased position. It's telling that you… more see no fault in defending Kenny's defiance to his captor while hating on Arvo for essentially doing the same thing.
This is why rationalism is still valuable.
I took the drugs from Arvo and wanted Jane to shoot him but that option never happened and that's why we had the shootout scene.
I never wanted him to get beaten and suffer, but a single bullet would have been quick and effective.
I understand any reasons he had for doing things he did, everyone is just trying to survive but so are we.
Actually, its not. While your general thread may be about Arvo, I was specifically responding to IcepickEvans and their comment regarding Mike and Bonnie.
The girl who, depending on circumstances, stood by and watched some woman rob you and then threaten to kill you with your own gun. The girl who he thought murdered his injured sister. The girl who's clearly loyal to Kenny.
Lol, Ohio is pretty landlocked dude. Would have to be a pretty big step to get from the Artic to there
But anyway, I don't think he is e… morevil for the sake of evil. But I also don't think he was some kind of victim either. The way I see it, he was intentionally stealing medicine from his group for his own purposes. He then decided to lie and make us seem like bandits who steal from crippled kids and then lead his group to ambush us because it suited his purpose and he knew he could get away with it. And then when his sister got shot, he decided to blame Clem and focused on getting revenge. I think he would have figured out his sis was a walker if he thought about it, but that instead he focused on hating Clem because it's easier then blaming himself. I think he shot Clem in cold blood cuz he is self centered and blames other people for his mistakes.
Yes there is. And at least my idea makes more sense then "he thought her heart magically restated herself and the little girl who was kind enough to not rob him decided to shot her in the face in cold blood."
People blame others to deflect their feelings of personal guilt ALL THE TIME. Hell, Kenny does it to Clem in just the previous ep. Thats a normal human reaction. And its certainly more likely then "No one in their group has died of anything but walker bites despite living for 2 years in a world where death by hypothermia, starvation, infection, bandits, etc etc is a very real possibility" and "Despite doing CPR, Arvo actually has no idea what CPR is or how it works". The narrative supports the idea that Arvo is the type of person who would not only steal from his own group, but would throw a little girl under the bus to hide his own crime, because that is exactly what he did. The idea that he would then focus on hating Clem and revenge rather then deal with the fact that its his fault his sister is dead makes a hell of a lot more sense then your theory.
I actually feel that Lilly is "insulted" by being compared with Arvo. Lilly is not stupid but that naive boy is more stupid than Ben. He's not evil, but he never use his mind before doing anything. He doesn't want to cause death or fatal injury (especially when he notices the baby) so he tries to stop the shootout, but he should foresee that starting a robbery to a group of armed people MEANS that someone can be killed. After shooting Clem he gets a panic face. I think he may be surprised by what he has done. He also almost gets himself killed on the lake. He starts to run. That can make him drowned or get him a bullet from Kenny.
I know that your comparing Lilly with him is to getting "why Arvo shoot Clem" to us. It has nothing to do with Arvo's being stupid or not. But I still feel uncomfortable. Lilly loses her rationality and (accidently) murders an innocent one, but most of the time she can foresee what she's going to do may result in.
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Those are good points, except for the fact that even if you didn't rob him the Russians specifically mention the medicine. At no point is the gun mentioned in the exchange. They didn't come after us because Jane took his gun, they came after us because despite letting him leave with the medicine, Arvo then hides it and tells his group we stole it. I repeat, due to the in game dialogue, we know that they attack us because Arvo lied and said we stole the medicine, not the gun. That is what makes him a "villain". That he took the medicine for himself and led his group to rob us. He used us for his own purposes. The only reason he protests the standoff is because we drew guns and he was exposed and in the line of fire. That was more concern for his own safety than any good will towards us imo.
Also, I don't understand what evidence you are basing your opinion of the Russians on? You say they are hostile, but again, the translations of the Russian dialogue indicates that they didn't want to kill us and kept telling Arvo to tell us to put our guns down. They also only fired after we fired the first shot. I mean, if there as bad as you say, why not kill us right away? You see him as some poor victim, but the way I see it he was stealing medicine from his own group, and then intentionally led them to us after making up some story about how we robbed him. The Russians probably attacked us not cuz they were hostile, but cuz Arvo made it seem like we were scavengers who steal from crippled kids. Also, if he was telling the truth about his sister being sick, how bad can the Russians be if they were willing to keep a sick woman and her injured brother with them?
Lol, Ohio is pretty landlocked dude. Would have to be a pretty big step to get from the Artic to there
But anyway, I don't think he is evil for the sake of evil. But I also don't think he was some kind of victim either. The way I see it, he was intentionally stealing medicine from his group for his own purposes. He then decided to lie and make us seem like bandits who steal from crippled kids and then lead his group to ambush us because it suited his purpose and he knew he could get away with it. And then when his sister got shot, he decided to blame Clem and focused on getting revenge. I think he would have figured out his sis was a walker if he thought about it, but that instead he focused on hating Clem because it's easier then blaming himself. I think he shot Clem in cold blood cuz he is self centered and blames other people for his mistakes.
I still don't understand why people keep saying the Russians were crazy? Nothing in their dialogue indicates that they were mistreating Arvo and his sister in any way.
How is luring everyone into a trap and demanding their belongings flimsy reasoning?
His motives arent at question here. His actions deserved the punishment. Clearly at the very least his sister fully agreed with the plan as she pulled her gun on them as well, besides which, if he had any sense of morality, he would have realized his sister was armed and that others would at the VERY least consider her a threat.
I dont need to explain his crimes again, they are blatant and overt. His actions after the shootout are irrelevant to that. Each of his transgressions was punished appropriately. Attempting to rob the group, he gets punched and taken prisoner, trying to escape, gets a beating. I wanted to gun him down when they were stealing the truck, because at that point he clearly cant ever be trusted, but it wasnt an option. Him shooting Clem is moot at that point, because he already deserved to die at that point.
Arvo has it in for Clem no matter how you treat him. Give Mike the gun, don't give Mike the gun...he'll pop a bullet in Clem's shoulder anyway. (I wonder if he was ever really aware that his sister had become a zombie? Or did he just assume Clem shot her in cold blood?)
i forgot to add this but if he so much as glares at my clementine i'll tell him to leave or shoot him i won't give him a 2ed chance to kill her that's how i feel if he pulls a gun then i'll shoot him
I think people just hate him because he shot you. At that point, they stop caring why and they just want to rationalize their hatred so they paint him in the worst possible light. Attempts to explain his reaction or feelings are then seen as trying to justify him shooting you, which MUST be wrong, so the argument is clearly flawed.
After thinking about the situation I could see things a little better, first Bonnie died on the lake in my game so it was just Mike & Arvo leaving. Mike liked Clem but she was linked to Kenny therefore taking her was not an option, and Jane would not abandon Clem so trying to get Jane to leave was not an option. So Mike was down to leave , but the supplies and truck were owned by Arvo's group in his mind he was taking what was his.
I didn't blame him everyone sees Clem as Kenny's friend
He wasn't aware, in the translation video right before Clementine shoots her he says 'I need to see if she's alright' and he breaks away from Kenny just in time to see Clementine pop her in the head, so from his perspective, Clem shot his sister while she was still alive. They never gave us the dialogue option to explain to him and that was probably intentional so it could move the plot along and have Clementine get shot.
The translation explains the hatred he has towards her. Clementine being nice to him afterwards means nothing to him, he likely lost his only family member. The one chance you do get to talk to him you can say 'I'm sorry about your sister' and that probably makes him feel like she was mocking him or something because in his eyes, she is the 'murderer'.
This of course does not make what he did to her okay, but at least it makes more sense now to know that he didn't know his sister turned.
Kenny was stupid when he knocked out Carver with the first hit. The smarter thing would have been to do what Jane did and castrate him.
People tend to blame scapegoats because they're unwilling to accept their own responsibility.
You may not be trolling, but you're clearly deadset on dismissing all evidence that doesn't fit your biased position. It's telling that you see no fault in defending Kenny's defiance to his captor while hating on Arvo for essentially doing the same thing.
This is why rationalism is still valuable.
can you keep racism out of this
kthx
Well, Clementine shot his sister, saving her own life, and so his sister didn't have to be a walker.. If Arvo thought Natasha was still alive, and not a walker, then Arvo is clearly stupid. He deserved to get beaten by Kenny, because he shot Clem. I hope he'll starve to death, and then gets devoured by walkers.
Arvo tries to escape what he KNOWS is rightful punishment for what he did. Him leading them to the cabin and giving them supplies is the right thing to do. Attempting to escape that is the wrong thing to do and so he is punished. Once again, Arvo is treated far better than he treated the others, he is lucky his captors are so merciful.
Kenny should not have been imprisoned in the first place, he has every right to try to escape and its rational for others to realize it isnt right for him to be held captive. Carver is just a bastard trying to make life better for himself at the cost of the freedom of others, similar to how Arvo is trying to make the lives of others worse to make his own better.
I took the drugs from Arvo and wanted Jane to shoot him but that option never happened and that's why we had the shootout scene.
I never wanted him to get beaten and suffer, but a single bullet would have been quick and effective.
I understand any reasons he had for doing things he did, everyone is just trying to survive but so are we.
Ah, I get it. I thought you were just bringing in an issue that wasn't part of the equation, so to speak.
The girl who, depending on circumstances, stood by and watched some woman rob you and then threaten to kill you with your own gun. The girl who he thought murdered his injured sister. The girl who's clearly loyal to Kenny.
Okay, I think you're completely wrong and that there's nothing in the narrative to back that up but if that's your headcanon, that's your headcanon.
Yes there is. And at least my idea makes more sense then "he thought her heart magically restated herself and the little girl who was kind enough to not rob him decided to shot her in the face in cold blood."
People blame others to deflect their feelings of personal guilt ALL THE TIME. Hell, Kenny does it to Clem in just the previous ep. Thats a normal human reaction. And its certainly more likely then "No one in their group has died of anything but walker bites despite living for 2 years in a world where death by hypothermia, starvation, infection, bandits, etc etc is a very real possibility" and "Despite doing CPR, Arvo actually has no idea what CPR is or how it works". The narrative supports the idea that Arvo is the type of person who would not only steal from his own group, but would throw a little girl under the bus to hide his own crime, because that is exactly what he did. The idea that he would then focus on hating Clem and revenge rather then deal with the fact that its his fault his sister is dead makes a hell of a lot more sense then your theory.
I actually feel that Lilly is "insulted" by being compared with Arvo. Lilly is not stupid but that naive boy is more stupid than Ben. He's not evil, but he never use his mind before doing anything. He doesn't want to cause death or fatal injury (especially when he notices the baby) so he tries to stop the shootout, but he should foresee that starting a robbery to a group of armed people MEANS that someone can be killed. After shooting Clem he gets a panic face. I think he may be surprised by what he has done. He also almost gets himself killed on the lake. He starts to run. That can make him drowned or get him a bullet from Kenny.
I know that your comparing Lilly with him is to getting "why Arvo shoot Clem" to us. It has nothing to do with Arvo's being stupid or not. But I still feel uncomfortable. Lilly loses her rationality and (accidently) murders an innocent one, but most of the time she can foresee what she's going to do may result in.