Did Kenny and Katjaa kill Duck?
How's that for a controversial thread title? Lol.
But seriously, this stems from this commonly tossed around premise that Carlos is the reason for Sarah dying, or inadvertently had a hand in her death. Now, from the sound of it, people who say this think that Carlos should have had Chuck's mentality and shown his daughter the way to survive early on, honing her skills and exposing her to the world that he feared would be too much for her. Okay, let's roll with that for a second...
What about the way Katjaa and Kenny handled Duck? They let him run around and be a silly kid and do silly things whilst in a survival situation. According to a lot of people, it's extremely important to start teaching the children to survive so they can start growing up and handling the world around them better than the adults, basically what Carver was saying. And yet Duck was never taught these things and nobody ever brings up Kenny and Katjaa's faults in raising him, instead pushing blame onto Ben for what he did, and while Ben certainly fucked up, it just seems to me like there should be a lot of focus on how poorly Duck was raised too.
I seem to recall Kenny bringing this up in No Going Back, though I could be wrong. I think he summed it up as "making mistakes" and not raising him right or something, but I don't remember if he actually said he should have taught him better or something. If so, well there's certainly something to that, isn't there? Duck would have had a much greater chance of survival if they taught him to use a gun and be "badass". Instead, Kenny and Katjaa were always about shielding Duck from the horrors of the outside, much like Carlos, except it seems like Carlos had a little more to worry about with Sarah's condition. Some have said, however, that Duck is also hinted to be neuroatypical like Sarah was. I don't know if that was intended, as I don't have nearly enough knowledge of these things as others more qualified than me, but I could see that being the case, and if it was, then it seems like Katjaa and Kenny have some even more splainin' to do... you know, as long as people are going to be flat out blaming Carlos for Sarah's death.
Now some of you might be saying, "well, Duck died because of an accident, him being trained might not have prevented that." True enough, except that Sarah can determinately die because of a complete accident as well. So is it only Carlos' fault 50% of the time, or is he always at fault? Seems to me you can't split something like this up; it's either his fault or it's not. And if he is always at fault, then I ask you to refer to my controversial thread title.
Personally, I don't blame any of the parents for what happened to their children. Duck died because of an accident that came about because thieving assholes attacked the Motor Inn, and Sarah could either die because the group gives up on her (the fact that she can keep going makes this so), or because of a complete accident that was not the fault of anybody except that fucking piece of wood that brained Jane (although there is the possibility of Sarah's legs being broken, hence why she couldn't get out, in which case, it's back to being an accident no one could have fixed). What does everybody else think?
Comments
I guess you could technically blame Kenny and Katjaa for Duck's death, only not as much as Carlos, if you think about it.
They just let Duck do whatever he wanted for little over 3 months, while Carlos shielded Sarah for little over 2 years. Although I don't really think 'shielding' is the right word for Duck's account, since it's really two different scenerioes.
I don't blame them for it, they just wanted to protect their child. Given time, they both might've been able to survive in this world, but they wern't given the chance. Shit happens, and it sucks when it does.
I think that having your parents there to take care of you and try and make it all okay definitely inhibits you if all they're doing is trying to make you comfortable/happy. Clem survived because she didn't have her parents to coddle her. IMO Duck and Sarah were coddled by their parents. Duck seemed closer to Katjaa IMO, because when in No Going Back Kenny mentions spending a lot of time away from Duck and Katjaa, obviously Duck was being raised more by his mother than his father. Sarah was extremely close to her dad, and we have no idea what or how they came to be so close and why Sarah was so dependent on Carlos. Both of them kinda kept them oblivious to the situations.
I think that Sarah had a legitimate condition, like Autism or something similar. And Duck, well, part of me thinks he either was just a stupid and happy kid or he was also a little mentally slow.
In Sarah's case, I think Carlos could be blamed because he didn't try to toughen her up or help her really cope to the real situation. Which, I think evidence supports she simply couldn't cope so Carlos had no choice. In that case, it was just unfortunate that Sarah couldn't survive. As far as Duck goes... I'm not sure. I think Duck and Sarah were both just coddled, and sometimes that really inhibits a child's mentally abilities to try and be more adventurous and brave.
While I do agree with the fact Kenny and Katjaa did not treat Duck the way they should have, I do believe Carlos did everything in his power to make Sarah last as long as she did. If Sarah actually knew what was going on, she could have frozen up just like in the trailer, making her suffer an early death.
That aside, Kenny did contribute to his son's death, but that could be said for almost everyone at the camp(Ben and whoever you save at the drugstore give the bandits supplies, Lilly orders Lee to take the supplies away which ultimately end in Duck's death.)
I don't really blame Kenny and Katjaa for Ducks death, in the situation they were in I don't think Duck would be a big help against a bunch of bandits.
no, Duck was very young, and it was like the first few weeks of the apocalypse, whereas sarah was 15 and it was two years into the ZA, and she honestly should have know how bad it was no matter how shielded she was, two totally different scenarios.
kenny was talking about how he wasn't around as much as he would have wanted to be (thinking back) before the ZA, not that he should have taught Duck how to be a "badass", i think the stranger's story tells of how you shouldn't put such young children in danger, because they really can't protect themselves or make good decisions.
Duck was older than Clementine, and yet Clementine was trained with a gun and to survive. Chuck suggested that, and everybody always talks about how right and smart Chuck was. Remember? "There ain't too young, not anymore." Duck should have been trained with a gun, at least, by that logic, and the same logic people extend to Carlos. Duck should have known how bad it was too, regardless of how early it was into the apocalypse. Hell, for three months, there was already cannibals and psychotic bandits running around along with everything being destroyed. Time doesn't matter in this equation.
Yes, I remember that speech Kenny gave clearly. Maybe it wasn't episode 5, but I recall something about Kenny making "mistakes" with Duck. But in any case, even if he didn't say that, that's still the point I'm making. See, people praise Chuck's point of view and think he's the reason Clem is still alive. So by that logic, Duck should have been trained early too, and Sarah as well. This is why I always had a problem with Chuck's advice being taken at face value. It's good advice, don't get me wrong, but people really push this idea and don't really think of the differing situations that could come about. I mean, it's hard as hell to raise a kid in the regular world, for crying out loud. To add survival training into that and so simply? Seems like people need to rethink that way of... um, thinking.
True, but he could have presumably taken out the walker. Still, I agree that he probably would have gotten into that accident anyway, but like my OP said, Sarah could not have done too much to help her situation either. She may have helped take out one or two of the walkers attacking the gate, maybe, and then the unavoidable accident occurs that would have killed her regardless of survival training Carlos gave her. I think we're of the same mind that there's a lot of variables that could have gone into it that could have either killed them or saved their lives, but ultimately, that's why I think Carlos gets a little too much flak.
duck was dead by that time, and even if duck and clementine had been "trained" to use a gun, they would not have been saving the day and being badasses when the bandits attacked, they were far too young and even chuck would have acknowledged there is only so much a child can accomplish.
and i was going to edit my post but the site wasnt loading properly, but i was going to say that in my game sarah died by complete accident and it wasn't carlos' fault, but she eventually would have died because of lets say... how she was, my point about how she should have known how bad it was is referring to how she was most of the problem, i honestly think carlos did the best he could with what he had to deal with and it was more of how she was than how she was taught after the ZA started that made her such a liability and so incompetent.
the kenny not being around duck as much as he wanted was the mistakes i was referring to.
i wish i could have edited my post before you responded because i think we actually agree on more that what came across in my initial post, because even though clementine is OP only two years after being taught how to use a gun she would have been hopeless in most situations without lee protecting her.
so i agree that people are thinking way to simply about teaching children survival, i think a lot of it is that many people on these forums are young themselves and like to imagine with a little training they would be badasses, but when you get a little bit older you realise how wrong that is, adults have a hard time with these kinds of things, let alone children with their under developed brains and lack of life experience.
Yes, I know, but the lesson is universal. The point is that age doesn't matter, according to Chuck and those who agree with his philosophy. Indeed there is only so much a child can accomplish, and I'm not saying they would have helped the group win the fight against the Save Lots bandits, but Duck's chances would have been greater by virtue of being better trained, which he never was. Any argument that says Sarah may not have survived because of how she was can be applied to Duck as well if indeed he also had a condition, and even if he didn't, just going on living the way he was as a silly, happy kid. But that all gets a little too close to blaming the victim for my tastes.
But yeah, I do think we agree on the rest, though. Ultimately, the situation is way more complex than people think. I think we can all agree we don't envy the positions of the parents in this series. I can't even imagine the stress.
i really don't think there was any chance to train duck in any way that would have helped stop him die
I agree with you. The situations they were in were just accidents that led to their demise, I don't think even with proper training they would have survived.
thestalkinghead has it about right; Carlos continued to baby Sarah constantly. He refused to even leave her on her own. But the big reason as to why you can't really compare Duck and Sarah is that Duck only lived a few months into the apocalypse, whereas Sarah was 2 years into it and was prone to meltdowns if her father wasn't at her side. Duck dies due to something out of his control. Even if he had been better prepared mentally, I don't think there's anything he could have done against a walker jumping on him. Meanwhile Sarah has a complete mental break when her father dies. She shuts down and is unresponsive to approaching walkers. Even if she survives, she continues to insist that her dad is alive. While everyone was keeping the Walkers from getting in, including the ten year old Clementine, Sarah stood back cowering. Carlos did not prepare her for being on her own at all, and while we can't say that Duck would have been as prepared as Clementine, I'd like to believe he would have been far more responsive. He's willing to strike out on his own within the compound and actually help Lee. He's seen corpses, he was held hostage and ate human flesh and still bounced back. Sarah freaks out just from being slapped by her dad because she didn't realize that talking over a madman was a bad idea.
But no, in short, I don't think Katjaa and Kenny got Duck killed because again, there wasn't any kind of mental preparation they could have done for Duck that could have made an unarmed little boy strong enough to resist a walker. Both Clementine and Duck were still new enough to the apocalypse at that point that they frequently froze up when a walker got close (just look at Clementine in the shop after you meet Christa and Omid).
Doug or Carley don't help Ben with that
The thing is how many guns did the groups have? Even if Duck and Sarah were trained to shoot, They may not have a gun and still end up dead. Though I see you're point. Duck and Sarah could of been trained to live in the world better, Instead of living in denial and thinking nothing would ever happen.
Don't forget that before Duck's death Lee treated Clem just like Kenny - Duck and maybe even Carlos - Sarah. Duck's fate was the example of what could have happen to Clementine if everything would have stayed the same. That accident was a message (spoken in Chuck's voice) for Lee to change his point of view and start treating Clem right (teaching her about survival). In this point if it was not Duck, but Clem to get bit, maybe everything would have developed in a different way - Kenny teaching Duck to use a gun and survive. Maybe in season 2 we would be playing as matured Duck? Yet, I think it would actually be a disaster as Duck's and Clementine's characters were already made like this - childish and immatured Duck, who looked at everything like it would be a game had to die, so already smarter and more potential Clementine could survive and not turn up like him. So, in my opinion if you are saying that Kenny was a bad father for Duck, you have to remember Lee, when that boy was still alive. And could anyone blame him for mistreating Clem? Nah, he was just too awesome!
As about Carlos... Don't forget that it was only a few months into apocalypse when Duck died. People weren't prepared good enough themselves nor they could have knew how bad the situation will be. Sarah died after a few years in apocalypse. Should be enough time for Carlos to understand she must learn how to protect herself, shouldn't it?
It's just my opinion. It may not agree with yours. Just no hate.
Ray Rice and Kenny are the same person!
To be fair, they hadn't met Chuck yet when Duck got bitten. If they never met Chuck, I don't think Lee would have thought to start treating her as a survivor instead of a little girl. She'd probably die soon.
When Duck got bitten, Clem was just as helpless as him, still being treated as a kid. She just got lucky.
If Duck was still alive and well when they met Chuck, I think they would have started training him like Lee trained Clem.
At least Kenny would. I can see Katjaa being against it.
Clem only lived a few months into it and received training. Again, the time-frame does not matter in this issue. Within three months, the group had already faced some of the worst challenges a zombie apocalypse has to offer in quick succession. According to a lot of people, the children should already have been receiving survival training. Duck is not exempt. As for Sarah's meltdowns, well, that comes back to just how severe her condition was. You say Carlos "babied" Sarah, but her condition was obviously a lot more of a hindrance in this situation than handling Duck. And since it's kept pretty vague other than obvious anxiety issues, it's hard to say how much could really have been done. Again, judgment without knowing the specifics.
True, she does go through a period of denial, but she is no longer unresponsive to walkers and clearly wants to get away from them. It's not like she doesn't know the threat they pose. She has shown numerous times that she's not ignorant to how this world works, contrary to what Carlos expected. That doesn't require survival training. The point is that her broken demeanor in the trailer is simply her grieving process, literally no different from Kenny shutting down after Katjaa and Duck's deaths, and then shutting down again and becoming borderline suicidal after Sarita's death, except compounded by the inevitable strain of her condition.
As for Sarah cowering, what was she to do? Nobody handed her a gun, if they even had extra ones, or a blunt weapon, and even if she had one of those, she'd probably have taken out one or two before the inevitable accident occurred. Literally the same defenses for Duck not being able to do much during the bandit raid can be applied to Sarah during the walker attack. It was a situation out of her control, just like with Duck.
Except he never understands the seriousness of the mission. Even when Lee flat out tells him not to get involved, he thinks it's a big game. That's pretty dangerous in such a situation. And yes, he's seen horrible things, but it was part of his character that he never really absorbed such things, at least not to the serious extent they should have been. Water off a duck's back.
Also, Sarah has clearly seen bad things too, since not only do we see her out on the road with the cabin group (well, okay, there was a time skip, but nevertheless, walkers had to have shown up numerous times), and she took part in the great escape from Carver's camp which would have led to even more time on the road. It's not like they were holed up in that cabin for two years, or even Carver's camp. A large amount of time for both father and daughter to contend with the horrors of the zombie apocalypse passed by and hard times no doubt took place. She may shut down because of her father hitting her, but that doesn't really say anything about survival prowess. Hell, in the midst of her mental breakdown, she ran right through a damn herd and made it inside that trailer. With proper focus, she could have put that endurance to good use.
Sure, I don't think Duck could have contended physically with the walker, but that's kind of different issue to mental preparation. Whether he'd have been mentally strong enough to contend with killing walkers and surviving... well, we'll never know, because Kenny and Katjaa never took that Chuck-like initiative. If they had started immediately, he just may have become more adept at handling such things. If given gun training, he may have been able to protect himself better, the way Clem did.
Yes, Clementine froze up, but then in episode 4, which was only a day after that, she either kills a walker on her own in the house, or in Crawford to save Molly, and she runs through the streets of Savannah to find Lee. She adjusted quickly, regardless of initial fear and regardless of how early it was into the plague. Could Duck have done the same? Maybe, maybe not. We'll never know now.
Again, Duck's death may have been unavoidable due to it being out of his hands, but I maintain that the same thing applies to Sarah. Both characters were raised contrary to the survivalist mindset, both were shown to be very sensitive and innocent and would freeze up when things got bad (Duck in shock in the pharmacy after being attacked by a walker in episode 1), and both died as a result of a conflict they had no real power over and from an accident they could not have avoided.
I'm pretty sure three months was enough time for the situation to sink in. Like I said, they had cannibals and bandits already mobilizing against them even in the early days of the apocalypse. As for Sarah and Carlos, well, Carlos' decision was influenced by the fact that Sarah was entering into the apocalypse with a condition that made her decidedly more vulnerable than your typical child. Sarah is clearly not Clementine, which doesn't mean she's weak, it means she has a shitload more to contend with on the inside than Clem does. Would she have been able to survive if taught to? I think so, as there was certainly hints towards her beginning to understand the world around her despite Carlos' objections... you know, before her character arc was flushed right down the drain.
I can certainly see the idea that Carlos should have better prepared her, but it's not the same thing as preparing Clementine (and possibly Duck, if he had been trained) for survival because Sarah was dealing with very different struggles than her.
That's true, but neither did Carlos, which doesn't stop people from blaming him. The most influence Carlos probably had in that respect was Carver, the "survival of the fittest" douchebag. I wouldn't listen to his crap either. I sometimes have problems with Chuck's advice, but Chuck was definitely a compassionate man who cared about the survival of the young. Carver cared about that too, but only out of the desire to see them grow up and take his myopic worldview further. Maybe someone like Chuck could have helped Carlos see the benefit in not shielding Sarah too much.
Well, the difference between the way Katjaa and Kenny handled Duck compared to how Carlos handled Sarah, is the time gap. For Duck, the apocalypse had just began, or had been going on for only 3 months. I remember that Kenny had still expected the government to intervene and "fix everything" in the beginning, and as for later on...well, it's been heavily implied that Duck isn't very smart, it's possible he may have a learning disability of some sort . Whereas with Sarah, they are already two years into the apocalypse, and other than having anxiety, Sarah isn't incapable/unwilling to learn to protect herself. Also Duck is only 8-9 years old, where Sarah is 15 years old.
I gotta say two years is a long time for Carlos not to have taken any action.
I actually think the same with you. I also always appreciate Chuck. Without him I'm afraid that it'll never come to Lee that he can't shield Clem forever, and perhaps Clem would have her hair dragged by a walker the next very day. Without Clem being braver and smarter than general kids in her age perhaps she can't even make it before they meet Chuck.
But what I also want to say is that it takes time for the adults to know what to do with their kids in the apocalypse. It seems to take much longer for Carlos, but Sarah does have some problems with her metal condition, so perhaps it'll take as long for Lee if Clem is under the same condition and they haven't meet Chuck.
PS. I think Christa did better than most of them. She seems to often teach Clem survival technic. She's rational but she never gets cold-hearted. I always love her... Er, sorry for behaving Christa fangirl here...
PSS. It suddenly comes to me that if Carlos meet Chuck it may still not work... For he has Uncle Pete, another old wise man along with him... I ALWAYS love old wise man like Chuck and Pete. Kind-hearted, always knowing what they are doing, being ready to sacrifice their life to the young, ....Sorry for behaving old-wise-men fangirl here...
Duck is not disabled... it's general for kids in his age to get as "stupid" as him... If you get little brothers you will know that...They're stupid but they're cute~
Sarah is the one who seems to have a disability. Her mental condition seems to be unstable.
I don't think so. Duck and Clem are the same age, and act drastically different. I think signs of a disability are best shown in the first episode, (I'm treading carefully here but) the way he talked/acted was like a 5-6 year old would act, he definitely seemed disabled to me. As for Sarah, I only think she had anxiety, but because Carlos sheltered her so much she didn't know how to interact socially very well.
i think clementine acts a bit old for her age, plus i think clementine and duck were supposed to be younger when they were first created, even so most ten year olds are kinda stupid, if we compare most children to clementine she would stand out as someone totally different to everyone else.
i just think 3 months and over 2 years are extremely different timescales, i don't think even chuck would expect much from a child that had been taught how to use a gun, except that in extreme circumstances teaching a child how to use a gun is better than not, and that is as far as it goes.
where as an average 13 year old at the start of the apocalypse could never have been sheltered that much that they end up like sarah, most people would have caught on to the situation, which is why people think sarah had some kind of mental disability, i think maybe sarah could have been slightly more capable than she was if carlos had tried harder/different tactics, but really i think he did the best he could with what he had to deal with, if he had let her be more independent she probably would have been dead way sooner.
i think christa did teach clementine a lot, but i get the feeling christa kept out of as much drama as she could to help clementine adjust and learn, i think when clementine separated from christa it was the most drama she had dealt with in two years
Perhaps, perhaps not. She is at loss when she's alone in the wood, but she deal with the cabin group very well. She knew how to make use of sympathy and threat.
Two years is also a long time for Christa to apparently not have taught Clementine how to tend a fire, which you'd think would be one of the earliest lessons. Three months also seems like a long time for Carley to still be holding guilt over the death of a guy she knew for a very, very short time in the long run.
Here's hoping for less time skips that cause eyebrow-raising character actions and dialogue. :P
The weird thing is that despite it being two years, the cabin group seemed to lack even the most basic understanding of walkers. Luke was all worried about Pete taking a look at Clem's bite, despite the fact that it should be really apparent by now that you don't just become a walker, you die and then you turn. Perhaps that plays a part in why Sarah wasn't ever trained? Initially, I didn't think they spent the bulk of two years at Carver's camp, but maybe I was wrong and they did. Maybe they spent most of their time in relative safety, never having to worry about survival out on the road, but then things started getting bad quick so they departed, eventually coming across Clem. Seems like the only thing to explain how utterly inexperienced they seemed with everything. That, or the whole group was just stupid; that's certainly possible.
As I've said before, I don't consider the differences in the times to hold that much significance in this issue. Well, okay, I suppose I can understand why Duck was not taught to use a gun in the early days. That's pretty understandable. But he was nevertheless just left to run around and actively kept from any of the equipment. If a learning disability is involved, then yeah, it's understandable, but that's also a bit vague.
I mean, so much credit is given to Chuck for his role in Clem's development, and it's certainly valid, but I think even without some wise old hobo imparting wisdom unto you, you have to start considering making sure your kid starts to take things a bit more seriously than Duck did pretty early on when it has already become clear that there won't be a quick fix to the problem of the zombies. That goes for both Kenny and Katjaa and Carlos. I won't deny Carlos made mistakes, like all parents do. My problem simply stems from this idea of "Carlos got Sarah killed!", which seems like too much of an overly simplistic viewpoint, and one that can easily be applied to Kenny and Kat if we're going down that road.
Word, brother. I hate how the time skips were handled.
Well, it IS established when you first meet Omid and Christa in S1 that she was the one who kept the two of them from joining groups for that exact reason.
i think you only don't consider the huge difference in time to have much significance because it would undermine your theory that, sarah and duck were basically the same situation, well sorry but you are just wrong, being in any situation or doing anything for more than two years compared to about three months is just a huge difference, just think about anything you have done for two years or more and compare it to the first three months and there will be a massive difference, whether that is having a job, moving to a different place, learning a skill or hobby or even surviving in the zombie apocalypse there is just going to be a big difference to how you see it, how you understand it and how it has changed your life.
plus it isn't like clementine was taught how to use a gun then she just became season two's badass clementine instantly it took her two years to learn and become the way she is.
Duck wasn't disabled, he was just hyperactive, which is common for a lot of boys his age. He was like your average hyperactive kid that loved to run around and talk your ear off about his favorite show/cartoon or whatever (which seemed to be what he was doing when he was talking to Clementine at the end of episode 1). And like the thestalkinghead said, Clementine acted a bit old for her age in some scenes which made the contrast in Duck's behavior and personality stand out more.
I see your point, but I personally believe Duck is more behind than other kids his age would be. I know several kids Duck's age, and they never acted the way he did in the first episode(That whole "I'm gonna drive the tractor, I'm gonna drive the tractor!" segment complete with the somewhat vacant look on his face after just led me to believe this kid really isn't that bright.) Clem does act old for her age, but Duck surely acts very young for his age as well.
At that time, Clementine couldn't have shot the walker either.
Hm, I don't doubt he's probably not as bright as other kids, but I don't really think that's any indicator that he's disabled or anything. I pretty much acted just like him when I was around his age, except for the tractor part. But I was pretty hyperactive and always did dumb stuff and got pretty excited easily, especially when it came anime. I was pretty much off the walls when it came to DragonBall Z, Poke'mon, and Yu-gi-oh! lol, So I can see Duck getting pretty excited for being on a tractor. I just chalked it up with his lively personality.
Of course, but had she been receiving training even a few days earlier, she probably could have. After all, she receives training literally one day later, and becomes a (pretty unrealistically, but it's awesome so we give it a pass :P) good shot in the days that follow. I don't know if Duck would have been the same, but Clem took to the training pretty quickly.
I could say the same thing about you putting so much stock into the time difference because otherwise it would undermine your only valid defense. Hell, the game itself disagrees with your whole premise. That said, it's perfectly fine to question the game's logic. After all, the game also seems to support the idea that Carlos babied Sarah too much, something I don't necessarily agree with.
A job and moving away are laughable comparisons to something like survival during the end of the world, and in particular, the series of events in this apocalyptic story. Now yes, it's painfully obvious your view will be different two years into something, but as I have been saying numerous times now, the three months and the week or weeks that came after (episodes 2 and 3) were wrought with challenges that rival anything that came during season 2. The worst the apocalypse had to offer from cannibals, starvation, bandits, and the group tearing itself apart was already coming out during those first few months of the ZA.
So what, if we're judging Carlos' actions on basic principle, is the justification for why K&K weren't taking Duck's personal survival and understanding of the world more seriously given how utterly dangerous everything was even then? Because it was earlier in the apocalypse? Sounds like a flimsy excuse to me given what we saw happening in quick succession. And yes, in case you're wondering, you could say the same thing about Lee, but only in matters of physical protection (which I admitted is an understandable objection, although I would say it's understandable in either a three month period or a two year one, especially when talking about children as innocent as Sarah and Duck), given that we already knew that Clementine was taking things a lot more seriously than Duck and showed an understanding of the world.
The reason I bring up judging Carlos' actions on basic principle is because the biggest issue I have with the "two years" line of defense is that Carlos' situation with Sarah is, as I have said numerous times, kept very vague, yet people assume because it was "ZOMG two years!" that he must have had better ideas for preparing Sarah, despite Sarah's situation that no doubt frightened Carlos in this harsh world, not too different from Duck being a silly kid in the same harsh world.
But ultimately, we don't know of their situation like we know of Duck's situation. The reason this is a problem is because we can't truly ascertain Carlos' motivations or know what they have gone through because it was never expanded upon. Like I said in my reply to Tinni, Carlos and Sarah could have had a reasonably safe existence for most of those two years to explain their situation, whereas Duck was constantly in danger on and off-screen (the numerous attacks mentioned in episode 3). But because it was earlier, that justifies not taking his personal survival more seriously? Not sure I buy that.
Still, like I said, it was never made clear what they went through so we can only guess. But yes, I will continue to maintain that if we judge Carlos on principle (since we can't know the specifics), then we must judge K&K the same way, which is exactly why I don't judge either of them for their children's deaths like others judge Carlos.
Hell, I'll freely admit that I'm obviously working to defend my own case, no different from you and everyone who defends Kenny and Kat due to the time difference, but don't tell me I'm ignoring something obvious to protect my point. I'm simply pointing out where I personally believe I see a disconnect between the differing judgments of character actions that I don't believe the time difference backs up. You don't have to think my point is valid, but I'm not blindly ignoring arguments to benefit myself.
I'm not arguing that we should blame carlos and not Kenny, i am just pointing out that the comparisons between the two circumstances are so different that is is not accurate to apply any arguments for or against it being carlos' fault to whether or not it's kenny's fault.
it depends of the job and where you are moving to, and i said
i didn't have time or felt like i had the need to list everything in the world that would be different with two years or more of experience compared to 3 months or less.
yeah as you have pointed out we know all about duck's experience and what he is like, clementine froze up after being trained to use a gun, and she was the more sensible one, duck would have probably shot himself, or just ended up like carl in season two of the tv show (just getting into trouble and danger all the time), at best even with training duck would have been the same in the circumstances where he died and at worst he would have put himself in more danger, i think at most you could blame Katja for is picking duck up and not just telling him to run, but we can't know if the result would have been different or better if he had ran.
i personally think they went a bit too far with an 11 year old clementine being a badass, she basically acts 14-15, sure she was always sensible and living on the road would toughen her up a bit, but she should still have a 11 year old brain and body, but they couldn't have the player control a realistic 11 year old in a realistic game, because that would have been infuriating, even for the 11 year olds that play this game and believe clementine is realistic as a badass