Just to add, out of all the poorly developed characters, I couldn't believe what they did (or should I say did NOT do) with sarah, its absolutely insane, she could have added soooo much to clems story past and future, but instead she was disposed of like a dirty rag..... soo sad for the game that...
There's a lot of young girls out there. Seeing horrific events from their perspective is way more interesting than yet another Daddy Simulat… moreor.
Part of the problem for me was Clem didn't feel like a little girl for most of season two. Almost no one treats her like one and after Luke insisted she go with him to check the bridge I just started doing every dumb thing imaginable because I knew Clem was invulnerable. Other than the first half of the first episode and the action scenes requiring some extra leg work it didn't really feel like the perspective of someone younger and more vulnerable. A lot of her actions and dialogue end up painting her more as just a small adult. With the way S2 Clem was handled, I'd probably felt the same way if I was playing as Omid most of the time.
And while I didn't want a repeat of the parental angle from S1, making Clem the player character still seems like a terrible idea from a story perspective to… [view original content]
Sorry for only skimming before responding.
I'm "glad" that season 2 wasn't just playing another character trying to protect Clem. That w… moreould have felt very rehashed.
Although I understand why some others do not feel this way, I enjoyed season 2 more than season 1. Clem has become one of my favorite videogame protagonists of all time, maybe even my favorite. It was very interesting for me, as a player, trying to play a roll that I am not used to playing and to see things from a child's perspective.
That said, I'm hoping for a time-skip for season 3. I'm hoping that Telltale goes for an angle that focuses on both protecting AJ and trying to deal with his whole "never being a part of civilized society" upbringing.
Tbh its a good point had clem been scripted to survive in the manner you put forward here the season would have been a lot more hmmmmmmm realistic.. fun.. and some.... clem being a bit mischievous and causing mayhem to help the group would have been grate, the carver camp would have been epic
As for kids growing up in harsh times..... yes they adapt a lot better than others who have known a different life BUT that still doesnt mean she should be portrayed as some navy seal while the adults around her do next to nothing.
Here "I didn't say that was how S2 is, just that's how I think playing as Clem should be" Also yes, Google it, kids growing up in harsh situ… moreations have more of an advantage, because as I said very clearly, adults who grow up before walkers would be more cushy depending on what they've been through in comparison to kids who spend the early, personality and strength shaping part of their life in a harsh world. It's true irl as well, they either come out of it traumatized or have some of the strongest resolve
LOL she still sore..... she still angry!
CLEM: Kenny....... hand me your crowbar
KENNY: [hands clem crowbar] ¡... now remember clem, just like I showed ya.... put ya back into it...
Thankies That was really what I thought when Telltale said playing as Clem would be different to playing as Lee, we'd need to prove ourselves to adults who wouldn't trust her or would baby her, we wouldn't get guns for a while, more spying and sabotaging than fighting. Your idea for Carver Camp sounds good, I accidentally saw the leaked achievements and thought it'd be similar, it was I guess but the adults forced us to do most things, Clem seemed like the only smart person till Luke rejoined the group, then Rebecca also
Got ya... see where ya going with it now...
Tbh its a good point had clem been scripted to survive in the manner you put forward here th… moree season would have been a lot more hmmmmmmm realistic.. fun.. and some.... clem being a bit mischievous and causing mayhem to help the group would have been grate, the carver camp would have been epic
As for kids growing up in harsh times..... yes they adapt a lot better than others who have known a different life BUT that still doesnt mean she should be portrayed as some navy seal while the adults around her do next to nothing.
Yea misread what you were saying I guess, my bad..
im with ya on the proving thing, thats what I kinda expected also, yea see its stuff like this thats important throught the game, its an important part of the story...and a huge part of clems story... just such a shame...
Thankies That was really what I thought when Telltale said playing as Clem would be different to playing as Lee, we'd need to prove ourselv… morees to adults who wouldn't trust her or would baby her, we wouldn't get guns for a while, more spying and sabotaging than fighting. Your idea for Carver Camp sounds good, I accidentally saw the leaked achievements and thought it'd be similar, it was I guess but the adults forced us to do most things, Clem seemed like the only smart person till Luke rejoined the group, then Rebecca also
yeah i was gonna mention episode one, it should have done more of the sneaking around or going off on your own type things throughout the season, like she was being ignored or not treated as a person who could accomplish things, but she would sneak off and do things anyway, that would be a believable child reaction and believable for adults to not rely on or give responsibilities to a child, but then i remembered her Rambo like scene where she stitches herself up and didn't want to mention episode one as a good example of what a child could do, but other than that though episode one was good.
I thought that was the idea in Ep1 ;/ She really needed adults, even though she's the protagonist so the writers wouldn't kill her in Ep1, I… more was really tense for her because of how alone she was, and how she only killed two walkers all ep and they were big struggles for her, I was glad she was saved by Luke and Pete even though she had protagonist immunity
yeah i like kenny, but i think season 2 they went to far with the whole kenny is a psychopath angle, i just think they tried to hard to make the final big decision more even and not just a 100% kenny survives thing, but it's like they forgot that not everybody liked kenny in season one, he was always a high maintenance friend and not everybody likes that, so if they had just given jane a bit more time and development they wouldn't have had to constantly be pushing the idea that kenny was crazy, basically it just felt to forced.
and yeah i didn't really get on the sarah is awesome bandwagon, me and my clementine thought she was kinda creepy when clementine first met her, clementine wasn't like "yay a new friend" she reacted more like "uhhh, yeah, hi" that plus her child like/naive attitude made me not want clementine to be friends with her.
and after episode one i thought luke was gonna be awesome, but he kinda turned out to be a bit of a disappointment that just constantly wined and argued with kenny.
Great post...
Agree on all points.. as you say on the other characters, it was hard to care when so little was done in developing the ch… morearacters, nick got a decent run but then disappeared for nearly an episode and turns up hanging in a fence..
Luke was terrible, considering how the story kept pushing his character on us, that he and clem were best of buddies we knew next to nothing about him, it wasn't untill the fire at the powerstation that I felt anything for luke... I remember all the times that I disagreed with luke and he would give clem those puppy dog eyes and im just thinking "I DONT CARE" it was the same with Rebecca, I just didnt care enough.. tbh carlos I dont miss at all, i never clicked with his character at all! For the same reason..
Sarah is a mystery to me, a lot of people felt for her, I never had anything, I thought she was another character rammed in our face with a sign round her neck saying "feel sorry f… [view original content]
I felt like I was seeing things through a child's perspective. Granted, she is different than a normal child, as she's hardened by all the crap she's had to go through.
I really liked the change in perspective and to be able to get to know #myClementine better.
but we didn't see events from a child perspective and we didn't act like a child, clementine was just a 14-15 year old in a childs body, the… morere was nothing that made the game a story about a child except that she technically was a child, other than that we may as well have been an adult, at least that way it would have been more believable.
children need protecting, we build societies in the majority for that reason, so don't go intentionally missing the point of the OP to accuse them of being uncomfortable about playing as a child, when clearly their points were about the story and the motivations presented to the player.
just because you can't see past how much you like the character of clementine to see the game critically, it doesn't mean that playing as clementine wasn't a detriment to the games story and player experience
trying to play a roll that I am not used to playing and to see things from a child's perspective.
If this had been the case, I would… more have not started this thread...
I agree with the last bit tho and thats also what im hoping for... fingers crossed heh.?. lol
Maybe I'm speaking for myself but I don't feel the need to protect Clem anymore. I think that she's more than prove to the audience that she is capable of surviving on her own. However one complaint I do have about the game is that the adults rely on her a bit too much. I mean I get that she's the protagonist and we have to do things because it is a video game but I think would've been sort of cool to have some of the adult be a bit more useful or at least hesitant in asking her to do things. Adding a new guardian in would feel like a rehash of season 1 in my eyes and take away the independent's that she has.
I agree on the sarah issue you raise, it was begging to be told but never was and only served to further distance clem from her age and made… more things even more strange...
On the protagonist tho I disagree, why would it feel out of place? As soon as we or the protagonist meets clem we would auto go back into protect clem mode, as much as I loved lee he was the easiest character to portray out of the whole of S1, its not hard to make a character that we would expect to be looking after clem, its the easist part, as long as he or she is caring towards clem its pretty much job done, ok bit more to it than that but you get what im saying..
very well put, i think you just summarised the reasons season two didn't work very clearly, i think because of these problems telltale will have to just start fresh for the new season, i really don't see how they could ever just "fix" clementine's story without just saying "forget season two, it didn't happen"
There's a lot of young girls out there. Seeing horrific events from their perspective is way more interesting than yet another Daddy Simulat… moreor.
Part of the problem for me was Clem didn't feel like a little girl for most of season two. Almost no one treats her like one and after Luke insisted she go with him to check the bridge I just started doing every dumb thing imaginable because I knew Clem was invulnerable. Other than the first half of the first episode and the action scenes requiring some extra leg work it didn't really feel like the perspective of someone younger and more vulnerable. A lot of her actions and dialogue end up painting her more as just a small adult. With the way S2 Clem was handled, I'd probably felt the same way if I was playing as Omid most of the time.
And while I didn't want a repeat of the parental angle from S1, making Clem the player character still seems like a terrible idea from a story perspective to… [view original content]
There's a lot of young girls out there. Seeing horrific events from their perspective is way more interesting than yet another Daddy Simulat… moreor.
Part of the problem for me was Clem didn't feel like a little girl for most of season two. Almost no one treats her like one and after Luke insisted she go with him to check the bridge I just started doing every dumb thing imaginable because I knew Clem was invulnerable. Other than the first half of the first episode and the action scenes requiring some extra leg work it didn't really feel like the perspective of someone younger and more vulnerable. A lot of her actions and dialogue end up painting her more as just a small adult. With the way S2 Clem was handled, I'd probably felt the same way if I was playing as Omid most of the time.
And while I didn't want a repeat of the parental angle from S1, making Clem the player character still seems like a terrible idea from a story perspective to… [view original content]
Comments
Another top notch post, thx for contributing...
Just to add, out of all the poorly developed characters, I couldn't believe what they did (or should I say did NOT do) with sarah, its absolutely insane, she could have added soooo much to clems story past and future, but instead she was disposed of like a dirty rag..... soo sad for the game that...
If this had been the case, I would have not started this thread...
I agree with the last bit tho and thats also what im hoping for... fingers crossed heh.?. lol
Got ya... see where ya going with it now...
Tbh its a good point had clem been scripted to survive in the manner you put forward here the season would have been a lot more hmmmmmmm realistic.. fun.. and some.... clem being a bit mischievous and causing mayhem to help the group would have been grate, the carver camp would have been epic
As for kids growing up in harsh times..... yes they adapt a lot better than others who have known a different life BUT that still doesnt mean she should be portrayed as some navy seal while the adults around her do next to nothing.
What about arvo as protag?...
Jeeeez I was joking.....
//backs out of room//
Arvo?
Clem: Now...just like last time...just how Kenny showed me.
LOL she still sore..... she still angry!
CLEM: Kenny....... hand me your crowbar
KENNY: [hands clem crowbar] ¡... now remember clem, just like I showed ya.... put ya back into it...
Thankies
That was really what I thought when Telltale said playing as Clem would be different to playing as Lee, we'd need to prove ourselves to adults who wouldn't trust her or would baby her, we wouldn't get guns for a while, more spying and sabotaging than fighting. Your idea for Carver Camp sounds good, I accidentally saw the leaked achievements and thought it'd be similar, it was I guess but the adults forced us to do most things, Clem seemed like the only smart person till Luke rejoined the group, then Rebecca also
Yea misread what you were saying I guess, my bad..
im with ya on the proving thing, thats what I kinda expected also, yea see its stuff like this thats important throught the game, its an important part of the story...and a huge part of clems story... just such a shame...
yeah i was gonna mention episode one, it should have done more of the sneaking around or going off on your own type things throughout the season, like she was being ignored or not treated as a person who could accomplish things, but she would sneak off and do things anyway, that would be a believable child reaction and believable for adults to not rely on or give responsibilities to a child, but then i remembered her Rambo like scene where she stitches herself up and didn't want to mention episode one as a good example of what a child could do, but other than that though episode one was good.
yeah i like kenny, but i think season 2 they went to far with the whole kenny is a psychopath angle, i just think they tried to hard to make the final big decision more even and not just a 100% kenny survives thing, but it's like they forgot that not everybody liked kenny in season one, he was always a high maintenance friend and not everybody likes that, so if they had just given jane a bit more time and development they wouldn't have had to constantly be pushing the idea that kenny was crazy, basically it just felt to forced.
and yeah i didn't really get on the sarah is awesome bandwagon, me and my clementine thought she was kinda creepy when clementine first met her, clementine wasn't like "yay a new friend" she reacted more like "uhhh, yeah, hi" that plus her child like/naive attitude made me not want clementine to be friends with her.
and after episode one i thought luke was gonna be awesome, but he kinda turned out to be a bit of a disappointment that just constantly wined and argued with kenny.
shrugs
I felt like I was seeing things through a child's perspective. Granted, she is different than a normal child, as she's hardened by all the crap she's had to go through.
I really liked the change in perspective and to be able to get to know #myClementine better.
shrugs
To me it felt like I was seeing things through a child's perspective. Not a "normal" child, by any means, but still a child.
Maybe I'm speaking for myself but I don't feel the need to protect Clem anymore. I think that she's more than prove to the audience that she is capable of surviving on her own. However one complaint I do have about the game is that the adults rely on her a bit too much. I mean I get that she's the protagonist and we have to do things because it is a video game but I think would've been sort of cool to have some of the adult be a bit more useful or at least hesitant in asking her to do things. Adding a new guardian in would feel like a rehash of season 1 in my eyes and take away the independent's that she has.
very well put, i think you just summarised the reasons season two didn't work very clearly, i think because of these problems telltale will have to just start fresh for the new season, i really don't see how they could ever just "fix" clementine's story without just saying "forget season two, it didn't happen"
they should turn clem 16 or 17 ... in time skip
Amazing post.
This is exactly how I view Clem as the PC in season two.