I love how angry people get at this...
I just love how people get SO angry at Bonnie when she blames Clementine for Luke's death (if you covered him).It's quite hilarious. I've seen MANY people say that they hate Bonnie after that outburst, I mean seriously? You magically start hating a character after just ONE (true) thing that they said? That's dumb. It's not like she physically hurt Clementine or something like that, she just spoke her mind.
Yes, you heard me earlier, I said that what Bonnie said was true. It IS Clementine's fault that Luke died (determinant). Luke had just gotten shot, so in that situation, getting out of the ice would be nearly impossible for someone with an injury to their leg like that. There were those who thought of this logically (helping Luke), and those who thought of this like a person who doesn't want to save anyone but them self. (covering Luke). That is all I have to say about this, and remember, this is MY opinion on the situation, so if I see people say I'm 'stupid' or that 'I'm wrong,' I'm going to assume that you didn't read this whole thing.
EDIT: I really like hearing everyone's opinions! Keep on postin'!
Comments
Let me tell you why that's bullshit.
First of all , I chose to cover luke so your argument is invalid there. In that scenario it was 100% bonnies fault.
Some times mentally hurting someone is worse.
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Well people freaked out when Kenny yelled at Clementine, are you really that surprised? I don't blame bonnie for anything, I didn't chose the cover option so she didn't blame me as much, but i saw what she said and i think it understandable. She is upset because she cared about Luke and now he is dead, people always try to find reason in death, even if there isn't one.
Okay but what if I read it and think you're stupid and wrong...? I don't think you're stupid. But yeah, I think you're wrong. It can't be Clem's fault for one basic reason: it's a no-win situation. Luke's death comes down to weak ice. You can trace other factors like Arvo running, zombies coming after them but Clem is not a contributing factor.
Bonnie was just emotional and angry, that's all.
Thank you!
I forgot about Arvo running, xD. I guess I have another reason to hate him now.
well the thing is here if you cover luke bonnie going over to him is the cause of the ice breaking if there were no walkers left luke could have easily gotten out of there so technically it is bonnie's fault that luke died and you know the rest bonnie bitches about how it is clem's fault when really it was her fault that is why people are mad
I don´t hate Bonnie. She didn´t even blame me for anything.
Unrelated, but that picture is actually funny! xD
So are you being serious or not?
Bonnie and everyone saw Kenny RUNNING around broken ice when he was going after Arvo and afterwards saving him when he started running and broke the ice, trapping one of his legs, just as Luke did. I don´t blame her for trying to do the same to save Luke, she even tried to be safer asking Clem to pull Luke since she is light.
Well, yeah.
A good character just died, THE GAME DOESN'T LET US DO MUCH, and we fall in the fucking ice and could possibly drown/freeze to death, then we come inside and Kenny beats the shit out of Arvo, then the whole truck nonsense, and then BONNIE. HAS THE AUDACITY TO SAY IT'S OUR FAULT THAT LUKE DIED, EVEN THOUGH IF SHE STAYED WHERE THE FUCK SHE WAS, LUKE COULD HAVE GOTTEN OUT HIMSELF.
Bonnie is the reason why Luke died. Both ways. Cover or help him.
Ummm.... it's because Bonnie got Luke killed, unless you walk towards him in which case it's Clem that got Luke killed.
Walking towards somebody that's in Luke's position is the ABSOLUTE worst thing you can do if you're trying to save them... except for maybe running at them... or shooting them in the face... or... YOU GET THE IDEA! Going towards them is BAD, VERY BAD, NOT THE THING TO DO!
The players that decided to Cover Luke were the ones that were helping him, only by being smart about it.
I don't think so. Something had to be done and she thought she could save him because she was lighter than Bonnie. Something had to be done, they couldn't just stand there and wait until Luke finds a way to get up (which I'm sure would've been impossible since his leg was injured and the ice could break if he moves) especially with all the walkers that were behind them.
It didn't happen on my playthrough but if it had I would've been disappointed in Bonnie because I expected better of her since she promised that we could trust her and that she was going to make up for what she did in previous episodes, but her last actions prove that it was just a lie. She blames Clem for something she had no control over, it was unfair.
To me, choosing to cover Luke is also a way to try to save him,and it is what he asks Clementine to do. Choosing to walk towards him was too risky and it could get both of them killed. You say that it's Clem's fault if Luke dies when she tries to go and help him, but you also say that not trying to go and save him means that we only care about ourselves, so I'm not sure I follow your reasoning.
I am, but it's just my opinion, so I am interested in everyone's input on this discussion.
I LOVE all of your opinions, it's interesting to have many different thoughts on this one topic!
Clementine was the lightest, so she would've had the best chance of rescuing him, I agree. But also, keep in mind that Luke ASKS you to cover him. I think Bonnie determinately killed him, but I understand her point.
I don't hate one version of Bonnie and like another version. Bonnie is pretty consistently a bad person. She's weak, exploits other people, and bails whenever things get bad. She's sweet and nice when everything's going well, but we have enough evidence to show that she will leave you to die or persuade others to abandon you if you're not convenient to her choices.
In 400 Days, when she's killed Dee, Bonnie has the option to say "We can be together now, let's just go." This is exactly the same attitude she'll give Mike for abandoning Clem. "Just leave her." She wants to take the easy road out and doesn't risk anything for anyone. You can see this in the offscreen decision she makes to not stick her neck out when Luke and everyone else leaves. It's only when there's a large group already set and things are going to go bad if she doesn't join them that she stands up to Carter's squad and joins - big surprise - the winning team. I think Bonnie's a pretty terrible person.
But being that the moral of Season 2 is "everyone does bad things" and how everyone takes turns being a horrible monster, Bonnie's pretty low on the list of people who suck.
You clearly have no idea how weight spreads across larger surface area, or how ice works. If Clem tries to "help" Luke, she gets him killed.
Well, not to nitpick but Bonnie did leave Clementine to die after she got shot, it pretty much showed her true colors. But I hate how people hate characters after one small screw up, like Kenny with yelling at Clementine for cutting Sarita's hand or Luke and Jane fucking each other. I mean, what do you expect?
Here's what to expect: The unexpected in EVERYTHING. xD
You're right, but I do understand this: Whenever Clementine tries to do something, it goes wrong in some way.
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I hated her when she said "just leave her" after clem got shot
It was bound to go wrong, because she didnt distribute her weight in larger surface area.
I just did an alternate playthrough, and I covered Luke instead, when I was breaking the ice, I accidentally pressed the wrong button and didn't finish cracking it. Bonnie DIED! I had absolutely no idea that could happen!
Many people say that crawling would be the most logical way to evenly distribute weight.
laying down on the ice would be the best way. Trust me, i have played on thin ice for many years, when i was a kid. Nothing is more fun to watch than see your friend desperately trying to get up from water, as the ice breaks around him. It was even more fun when someone tries to help him up from there and falls through the ice aswell.
In a weird way I liked that Bonnie blamed you if you decided to cover for Luke (even though it's sort of out of character) I like that Clem doesn't have the excuse of being a defenseless child but then again it was obviously no ones fault, just a freak accident
Well, first of all, the only logical thing to do was cover Luke. Helping Luke is stupid. Yeah, Clem was lighter and all that, but it doesn´t change that it was cracked ice. If Bonnie had stayed in place while you cover Luke, Luke could be still alive, and she blames you for it despite that it was all Bonnie´s fault.
Those that covered Luke were the ones who took the choice most likely to save him, not the other way around.
See I really think Luke could have got out if Bonnie had just listened and covered him. When I was choosing I instantly thought "That ice is fragile enough at this point, if I go to save him he'll fall in" So I listened to him and covered him. Don't get me wrong Bonnie was right to be worried as she really liked Luke. But if she just listened and helped Clem cover him then he wouldn't have gone in when she got too close.
What really hurts me is Bonnie up to that point had been nice and felt sympathy for you because everyone expected so much from you and she could see that. She and Clem had a really nice bond. But the minute Luke dies and I save her life from that water it's like she's had a complete overhaul in her character. All she cared about at that point was having someone to blame, and because she couldn't truly accept that it was her fault he died, she had to go and blame Clementine. It just feels like a betrayal of her character, and when she doesn't even care when you get shot I got so pissed off that the writers just forgot about the character Bonnie had, instead we got "I'm a redneck bitch and I hate you for not saving my sorta-not really boyfriend)
I liked Bonnie, really I did. I liked how her character showed she made mistakes but she beat her drug addiction and kept on moving forwards. But it feels as though the writers never realised her character in the end.
After she said that, I wish there was an option to say "Nobody would be dead if you didn't get us all taken by Carver!"
I agree that it is actually bonnie that killed luck by idiotically supposing that a patch of ice that couldn't handle the weight of one person could handle the weight of two, especially considering that trying to pull him out will undoubtedly cause Bonnie to focus the weight of those two people on her toes, as opposed to spreading it across the entire sole of her foot, and push into the ice... but this POV has been covered.
What I haven't seen mentioned is this. At least for me, and I'd be surprised if others don't see it the same way, It wasn't Bonie blaming us for Luke's death that really got my goat. If that had been all she had to say I would've chalked it up to grief and hoped she could forgive and/or apologize once she had a clearer head, like Kenny blaming me for Sarita.I understood that. I forgave him immediately. It was the other part of the speech that was beyond the pale. I don't remember it exactly, but its gist was "It must be nice to be a little girl who just fucks everything up all the time and doesn't have to be truly responsible for anything like grownups like me." It was like Thorin calling Bilbo a coward just before the Battle of Five Armies, only worse.
Clementine, who has spent the past two weeks nonstop pulling grownups asses out of the fire, Bonnie's included. Clementine, without whom everyone in the group (most of whom haven't been escpecially good to her in the first place) would already be dead at least three times over. She fucks everything up?! It must be nice for her not to have to be the responsible one?!?! WOW, Bonnie. You know what? Why don't you go eat a big bag of dicks.
[SLAP BONNIE]
Well...at least she's determinant, so she may not last too long if she shows up in season 3.
I agree I felt like Bonnie and Mike's betrayal was really OC to be honest