Unexplained Theories (Carver's past and Chista's fate)
Season 2 came to an end, however ending(s) not concluded the entire storyline in one coherent whole.
Beep; Long Ass Post Alert
I recenly replayed Season 2 and, from the very beginning, it was a lot of unexplained events and sudden things appearing. Now, I'd like to look really close up onto what's happened in the Season and on what topics TellTale hasn't given us a full explanation.
I dug up some details and connected a few dots. Maybe because I was at work and bored (typical stuff). I recommend you to settle down, grab some drink and enjoy.
Time to get our brains to work!
My ideas are placed below, although not all of them are explained. I'm gonna mark theories down as soon as I/we clarified them.
In Order:
1. What happened to Christa?
2. Who was responsible for the murders down by the river?
3. Who was George?
4. How Rebecca and Carver's "relationship" started?
The list goes on, feel free to add any ideas you'll come up with.
I'm gonna emerge first two questions in one section, it'll be easier to understand what I want to explain.
Christa and The River Massacre
Christa and Clementine were attacked by the people named "scavengers", who separated them and left Christa with unknown status. As we disscused earlier, we did hear a gunshot while Clem was running away from the man coming after her. We also saw (determinant) Christa getting stabbed in the leg with a spear - more like a knife taped to a stick - by a man named Winston (better known as "Jesus, are you fucking kidding me?!" guy).
Now, let's move on to the river massacre. Once Nick sees it, he says: "Think about it. You're Carver, what do you do?". Looks like the game itself gives a player directions of who might have done it, showing this particular scene at the beginning of "In Harm's Way" and using it to put together Carver's character trailer.
We already know Pete and Nick didn't recognize any of the dead, meaning the people weren't part of the Howe's Community.
Then again, let's head back to Christa. Winston stabbed her, let go of the spear and started to chase Clementine empty-handed. We heard the gunshot - which is most often uses as an argument confirming Christa's death - but as far as I know, aiming in the dark, amidst the rain, shouldn't be that easy. I belive Christa was stabbed regardless (she screams off-screen when you tried to distract scavengers), and the result is one of three:
1. She removed the spear and escaped/used it as a walking stick to move the injured leg.
2. She stopped after she heard a gunshot and got captured by the bandits.
3. She got shot.
When Pete kills a trapped walker, he uses a spear the walker was pierced with. You can clearly see it's Winston's.
It supports the first two theories and leads to the next one:
1. Christa was attacked by walkers and used a spear to pull one of them away, then left the place.
2. Christa was traveling with the scavengers. Walkers happened, Victor got hurt, Ralph ran away.
Take a closer look.
Besides Victor, it was also Roman, a leader of Shel's camp from 400 days. We do know he would "track people down if they'd leave him behind", however Shel and Becca leaving Roman's camp is determinant.
Regardless of your choice, Roman is found dead on the ground, after being shot in the head.
Despite the surroundings suggesting that Carver had some connection with it, we already know how Carver's ideology works. He likes to give people second chances (or kill them when they failed to convince him about their valuable). If Clementine mentions the dead group down by the stream, Carver will correct her, implying that he may have been involved with their deaths.
Pete
Notice, when Carver finally met the Cabin Group, he didn't mention a missing member.
One logical explanation I have is that Carver found Pete dead (or dying), and shot him in the head to prevent him from turning. Knowing the person Pete was, Carver has many reasons to keep him as a valuable member of the group and (more or less) respect him. That may explain why he did shoot him, but never bothered to do the same thing with Reggie.
What could've happened:
1. Roman's group met the scavengers group. Carver found dead bodies and shot them out of mercy.
2. Roman was the scavengers leader. They all got attacked and killed by Carver.
3. Carver found dead bodies, all shot. Somebody else killed them.
If you think about it, Carver didn't have any reason to kill these people. Don't think he knew them, either. Why waste an efford to kill strangers? Not many ideas.
1. Roman's group was somehow a threat to Carver's community.
2. Roman's group attacked Carver's.
3. Carver attacked Roman's group in order to get something they had (supplies?)
Personally, I think Carver found these people dead. He shot Pete. Christa was down by the stream when the group was attacked and managed to escape; she's alive.
George
Note: People who think Carver was wasted potential and hate him for being blind psychopath, take the time to read this article.
If you were paying attention some time ago, I wrote up a little explanation about Carver's behavior in 203, and how his character didn't change suddenly off-screen. I'm gonna stick to it, develop this idea by using my best arguments.
People were sore - or angry - over the lack of Carver's backstory. Again, Carver as a character who appealed to me, I consider him very well written - gonna defend this thought as long as I can - so it's understandable I wanted to know more about him. So I did nitpick at some details.
Determinant Part Alert
Knowing how Carver acted back at the cabin, we can see him being smart and carful when it comes to people he doesn't know. On the other hand, he could easily introduce himself as William Carver, because why not. Cabin Group would have figured it out sooner or later, therefore it was no point of hiding his real name. However, he did.
That wasn't much of the mystery Cabin Group been living in there. Carver knew they will ask Clementine about him, and she'd tell them, because, as he noted, she's very perceptive and isn't afraid of the stranger with a gun.
Alvin and Rebecca were supposed to hear this name. They were supposed to find out that Carver remembers what Alvin did. I'd say it was a message for them. Reference to the place they escaped from, to make them feel hounded, not just physically, but also mentally.
Carver isn't a person who outright speaks about the past, he prefers to make plans for the future (community benefit, Rebecca's baby, next generation leading the people out from the apocalypse). It makes his words - below - even more meaningful.
Take a moment to notice Alvin here. He's clearly shocked, dispirited. We all know Alvin is a kind-hearted and compassionate man. Judging by how he acted, he regrets what he did, but stays silent, knowing it had to be done in order let the group escape.
However...
Because you didn't like me?
Alvin was married to Rebecca, so it's all logical that he wasn't in a friendly manner with Carver. Take a notice what Carver said, it looks like Alvin killed George not only to get out, but also because George was somehow close to Carver.
I have arguments supporting this theory.
- "He might not have meant to, but George died all the same."
Sounds like that was an accident, even though it doesn't coincide with what Carver says taking Alvin hostage. That'd explain why Alvin felt bad about it. He could get blaming himself - beliving that Carver kept tracking the group to gain revenge.
- "He's different... he's worse." // "Bill... he wasn't always like this."
We already know what loss of a close one can do to a person, coughKennycough. People deal with problems in the different ways, but some of the experiences can completely change us (duh, Sherlock's here).
- "Anger and hate are all valid(...), no one needs to forget."
It makes us stronger, maybe?
I think that's Carvers strategy at its finest. Killing is a finality.
- torturing Alvin:
I believe George was Carver's close friend (only one) or the member of his family (brother sounds good). And Alvin killed him.
Let's put somebody else in the similar situation.
Fictional Example: If Arvo would've shot Clementine, you'd want to give him Carver's treatment.
Real Example: Kenny thought Jane killed AJ and wanted her dead.
I'll elaborate the last point later. This post is long enough for now.
Answer the questions:
- What happened to Christa?
- River Massacre?
- George?
Add your own theories or discuss ones I already pointed out. Keep it respectfully, shall we? :>
Comments
I really hope you're right and Christa's alive...fingers crossed.
Good job collecting all the george stuff, I still wish they'd got into that a bit more but still
Also this picture just made me laugh they look so awkward
wow, I didn't read cuz I was too long, but I will come back to this cuz It looked real interesting and well detailed! good shit!
For some reason I never heard of George in my playthrough. Either I must have not been paying attention or you have to pick certain stuff to say for it to come up.
Nice Post
You have to ask Carver about his name and surrender at the lodge.
I think the lack of George's story it's the reason why people underestimate Carver's character.
Sigh.. I miss Carver.
Thanks.
Yeah they do, it was a bit of challenge to find this scene though.
I feel you.
Yeah its actually cool as its completely determinant you learn about it
For me on my canon run I like to do all of this as it fleshes out Alvin a lot more even if he misses out on his ep 3 sacrifice I think it fits better with how the other characters react.
Yeah I wish he hadn't been killed off till the last episode.
If it was up to me, i would have let Carver live. He did more good than harm. He got community up with lots of supplies and even electricity. But because cabin group didnt like Carver, the whole community had to fall.
How can you say that? He was evil! He killed Alvin Walter and Reggie...
Nice post fallandir!
Carver was dangerous but I believe he was a good person at one time and something turned him...
so Alvin is a murderer? It sucks. good post though, as always.
Well Kenny killed Walter.
Did the whole community deserve to fall, just because you didnt approve his worldview?
[removed]
"Great! Well, just be careful, and use your best judgment. We're building a good community here, we want to keep it that way."
Something clearly happened, which changed Carver. Maybe some new people he got in fucked up things. They probably got people he cared about dead, because of their incompetence and this is the reason he didnt like weak people around.
I want Christa back, i prefer her to take care of Clem over Kenny or Jane
Carver pulled the trigger so he killed him. The community had fallen because they had a madman for a leader.
Kenny gave him a reason to do it.
The community fell because some people didnt approve his way to lead and decided to get everyone killed because of that.
You know, it would be awesome if we get a DLC with different stories that lead up to the river massacre or start from it, we might know what happened to Christa, though i still want her to return on S3.
We don't know if everyone from Carvers camp died.
They lost their base, supplies, leader and members. The community fell, even if some survived.
Yeah, let him live, convince him everything he's done is wrong and that you're going to make right decisions without him, then when he's lost in thought cut his throat!
Agreed, i just love good villians
Me too. I wish they could develop him a little bit more and don't kill him so fast for the sake of plot.
I agree even though Christa seemed a bit colder when we last saw her at least she tried to spare you when the bandits came and even though Clem inadvertently got Omid killed she didn't try and kill you over it. She was a bit colder and hardened but at least she was still sane.
Yeah, if DLC could explain some stuff, I'd be great.
I think he had to die to create Clementine's "evil" side.
Carver is such a good guy to kill a husband before his wife, beat a father before his daughter, and murder an easygoing gardener before two kids.
As for he himself, I want to say he just gets all of what he deserves. When he starts a good community, people respect him and show their loyalty. When he starts to change, people leave him. When he become the nightmare of others, they just kill him off. In the history we get enough people, who were heroes who led people to a better life, but then started to corrupt and became tyrants when they got power, and finally got overthrown by the people. They got respect when they treated others as people, and got betrayal when they treated them as prisoner.
As for the community, it is a great pity that it fell. It doesn't deserve to fall, because except carver others living in there don't deserve to die. It it the group's fault that it fell. However:
Carver is the one who indirectly causes it to fall, just as Kenny is the one who indirectly causes the betrayal of Bonnie and Mike.
The community doesn't deserve to fall has nothing to do with whether Carver deserves to die.
With Carver becoming a tyrant step by step, starting to kill innocent people without hesitation, it will be better for the community to get another leader. ( This has nothing to do with whether the group is right to make the community to fall. It is just better to get another good leader who has humanity in him rather than Carver. Pleas don't mix the points)
Ps someone says Carver has his reason to change. But having reasons to change doesn't mean you have to change. You are you own man/lady. You yourself can decide what kind of people to be. Carver doesn't have to do a lot of thing to survive. And Clem has already seen enogh shit to be an asshole who doesn't trust or love anyone. But she doesn't .
The community doesn't deserve to fall = Carver doesn't deserve to die. Good point.
1.Christa it might get shot on the trailer from no going... but at comic con has been another trailer and in that scene has been two shoots that means Christa is dead ...
2.Carver for sure and a herd of walker's
3.I think has been a friend of Rebecca And Alvin when the zombie apocalypse started Carver it might kill him
4.Rebecca and Alvin,Carlos and Sarah,Pete and Nick it might get caugh by Carver and then they meet luke
Husband, who happened to kill his good friend.
What? Did Kenny have a daughter hiding somewhere?
Unnecessary murder, i'd say, but he didnt want weak people in his community so...
Have strong people survive / let weaker ones bring strong ones down. Pick one.
Father = Carlos. And Reggie doesn't really threat their lives. He can also just drive him away rather than murder him before two kis.
As foe Alvin, it makes me laugh that Carver seems to have no idea why Rebecca hates him.
He was talking about Carlos and Sarah. C:
Slapping her was more of a punishment for Carlos, really. Carver wanted to show him he can make Sarah suffer using a person she loves.
Thanks CC
Well then youy should shut up about Kenny because he did more good things than Carver did, Carver killed more innocent people in one episode then Kenny did in a whole season