In season one my Lee thought taking Clem was a bad idea. There was absolutely no reason to my Lee to not leave Clem.
I believe we have talked about this subject already. If you are talking about Lee taking care of Clementine once he found her, he acted pretty much like any adult would have done, when they see a child in danger. But times change and eventually you have to look after yourself, if you want to survive. If Lee never took Clementine with him, he could have possibly survived longer, but back then, it would have been very inhumane decision to leave a child behind. Lee's decision to take Clementine with him was logical. Clementine not leaving Kenny, after how she saw him and his plans, was very illogical decision, thus the reason im complaining about it. However, leaving Kenny behind and going back to south wouldnt have given the player the emotional reaction which Telltale wanted player to experience, so they made Clementine stay no matter how she saw Kenny.
I was really pissed off when Clementine suddenly decided not to leave Kenny behind, because i personally wanted to do that long time ago in season 1 and later in season 2 and i did my best to show Kenny and others how my Clementine doesnt like Kenny. But the writers decided to keep them close no matter what, while i was hoping for similar reaction like with Kenny and Lilly not helping you sometimes or being more hostile towards you, when you dont do as they want in season 1.
ps. Have you checked heavy rain? If they put more effort in the game, they could try to do what heavy rain did.
In my playthrough, i agreed that Kenny is becoming Carver, going to north was bad idea and she doesnt want to go there. There was absolutely… more no reason for my Clementine to not leave Kenny behind, but she still refused to leave and basically sentenced herself to death for the sake hand fed story.
In season one my Lee thought taking Clem was a bad idea. There was absolutely no reason to my Lee to not leave Clem.
This isn't true, it's just to illustrate that they have to hand feed you a story, or there is no story.
Clementine and Kenny did not guess that Jane had hidden the baby, but they thought something worse: that Jane had gotten the baby killed. Before the fight Clementine asks Jane "What did you do?!", and after the fight she tells Kenny "I thought that Jane may have killed him".
If Clementine was as stupid as Kenny (making assumptions and acting upon them blindly), Jane did all that in vain and it was her mistake for thinking that Clementine was intelligent.
You and Jane may not have cared about the baby, but Clementine did. It's not even determinant.
Well i care about the baby less than Jane. She atleast kept the baby alive and showed that she cared about the baby somewhat. I should have been more clear that it was my personal opinion, Clementine did care about the baby, no doubt about that.
Clementine and Kenny did not guess that Jane had hidden the baby, but they thought something worse: that Jane had gotten the baby killed. Be… morefore the fight Clementine asks Jane "What did you do?!", and after the fight she tells Kenny "I thought that Jane may have killed him". That alone was more than enough reason to shoot the reckless and stupid Jane at that point, even without the fact that she did it to try to get Clem's uncle killed.
Dont care about the baby, so that doesnt really matter to me.
You and Jane may not have cared about the baby, but Clementine did. It's not even determinant.
You and I haven't talked about this yet. And you misinterpret. I'm not saying Lee taking Clem was the right or wrong choice, good or bad, or rational or irrational. I'm saying that they need to railroad the story, or there wouldn't be a story. Clem not shooting Jane, or not abandoning Kenny earlier both fall under the same category. Necessary hand feeding. You argue against one and for the other, but both fall victim to the exact same circumstances. Biasness (you wanting to leave Kenny) is inconsequential because, in order to tell the story, your Clementine can't want to leave Kenny. If the creators catered to everyone's wants (ie, me wanting my Lee to want to leave Clem) it would be a haywire, hollow game (if you could even call it a game, so many different paths would take years and years to construct).
Lastly, they put a lot of effort into the game. Even though I was disappointed with S2, I can still see the creators care about the world they are creating. They aren't trying to make a Heavy Rain. They are putting effort into a different kind of story. It's sort of like saying the people who make Reese's Cups should put more effort into making candy like Twix.
In season one my Lee thought taking Clem was a bad idea. There was absolutely no reason to my Lee to not leave Clem.
I believe we ha… moreve talked about this subject already. If you are talking about Lee taking care of Clementine once he found her, he acted pretty much like any adult would have done, when they see a child in danger. But times change and eventually you have to look after yourself, if you want to survive. If Lee never took Clementine with him, he could have possibly survived longer, but back then, it would have been very inhumane decision to leave a child behind. Lee's decision to take Clementine with him was logical. Clementine not leaving Kenny, after how she saw him and his plans, was very illogical decision, thus the reason im complaining about it. However, leaving Kenny behind and going back to south wouldnt have given the player the emotional reaction which Telltale wanted player to experience, so they made Clementine … [view original content]
I do realize this, but the thing which annoys me is that they give option to disagree with Kenny's plan and think he is dangerous and even after he is forcing you to go north on suicide mission, she doesnt want to leave him and save her life basically. And they build the final choice around player caring about Kenny, who i didnt care about, so it didnt the ending wasnt even that great imo. It was a bad call from telltale to assume player likes Kenny and make the story pretty much revolve around him.
I miss the times when " X remembers that" used to matter atleast some.
You and I haven't talked about this yet. And you misinterpret. I'm not saying Lee taking Clem was the right or wrong choice, good or bad, or… more rational or irrational. I'm saying that they need to railroad the story, or there wouldn't be a story. Clem not shooting Jane, or not abandoning Kenny earlier both fall under the same category. Necessary hand feeding. You argue against one and for the other, but both fall victim to the exact same circumstances. Biasness (you wanting to leave Kenny) is inconsequential because, in order to tell the story, your Clementine can't want to leave Kenny. If the creators catered to everyone's wants (ie, me wanting my Lee to want to leave Clem) it would be a haywire, hollow game (if you could even call it a game, so many different paths would take years and years to construct).
Lastly, they put a lot of effort into the game. Even though I was disappointed with S2, I can still see the creators care about the worl… [view original content]
She can talk smack about Jane as well, so if you are going to argue for ditching Kenny you must also argue on the point of ditching Jane. I don't mind either of them not coming to pass. It was still a pretty good story.
Most players do like Kenny. Or if they don't like Kenny, they still don't want to kill Kenny. Because of this Telltale did a pretty good job with the ending. Again, they can't cater to the whims of each player. Assuming the player likes (or doesn't want to kill) Kenny it is completely understandable and not a bad call because for the majority it was a tough choice. And for those who it wasn't a tough call, well they have stern reasoning for why they felt they made the right choice (I mean, damn, look at you so rigorously defend Jane without even (usually) considering the other side of the story).
I also miss that. Felt like that was a reoccurring theme this season. (?)____ will remember that.I don't believe you anymore!
I do realize this, but the thing which annoys me is that they give option to disagree with Kenny's plan and think he is dangerous and even a… morefter he is forcing you to go north on suicide mission, she doesnt want to leave him and save her life basically. And they build the final choice around player caring about Kenny, who i didnt care about, so it didnt the ending wasnt even that great imo. It was a bad call from telltale to assume player likes Kenny and make the story pretty much revolve around him.
I miss the times when " X remembers that" used to matter atleast some.
She can talk smack about Jane as well, so if you are going to argue for ditching Kenny you must also argue on the point of ditching Jane. I don't mind either of them not coming to pass. It was still a pretty good story.
Well unlike Kenny, Jane didnt really put Clementine in danger and there wouldnt have been good reason to leave her. If she actually kept putting Clementine in danger, then yes, there should have been option to leave her. The story would have been better if i didnt dislike Kenny after season 1 and start to hate in season 2. He caused one of the nicest character of season 2 to die, Walter.
Most players do like Kenny. Or if they don't like Kenny, they still don't want to kill Kenny.
I dont want to kill Kenny either, i just wanted to get him away from Clem because he kept putting her in danger and ignored her opinion about going to north and forced her to go there.
(I mean, damn, look at you so rigorously defend Jane without even (usually) considering the other side of the story).
Well i cant see any rational reason for picking Kenny, assuming your priority is survival of Clementine. I dont have any problem if people base their decisions on emotions, but if they claim otherwise, of course im going to argue about that.
She can talk smack about Jane as well, so if you are going to argue for ditching Kenny you must also argue on the point of ditching Jane. I … moredon't mind either of them not coming to pass. It was still a pretty good story.
Most players do like Kenny. Or if they don't like Kenny, they still don't want to kill Kenny. Because of this Telltale did a pretty good job with the ending. Again, they can't cater to the whims of each player. Assuming the player likes (or doesn't want to kill) Kenny it is completely understandable and not a bad call because for the majority it was a tough choice. And for those who it wasn't a tough call, well they have stern reasoning for why they felt they made the right choice (I mean, damn, look at you so rigorously defend Jane without even (usually) considering the other side of the story).
I also miss that. Felt like that was a reoccurring theme this season. (?)____ will remember that. I don't believe you anymore!
They engineered his final scenes so that he can be valorized as a hero and leave you with 'feels'. Even if you kill him, Kenny forgives you and the game forces you to believe that he's redeemed in his last moments. This is at odds with the supposedly cynical atmosphere of The Walking Dead, and this inconsistency is why I'm left feeling uncomfortable even though Kenny's determinant status means this is his last episode. He should have stayed dead in the first place.
They didn't make mistakes , you just don't want it like that but that doesn't make them wrong....
Half this page is you defending jane ag… moreain.... but its not true eh ?
Jane did what was right in her mind but that doesn't make it right.
If she had to make an effort for someone she'd rather leave them behind or kill them
We've all seen it, just like you defending jane at all causes but kenny is always wrong and thats when the arguments start
I respect jane sure, but i also respect kenny and if someone is very one sided i'll tell them and you know that
I want to hopefully assume that Telltale got rid of Kenny since they realized that having him back was a mistake and how they handled Kenny in season 2 was bad. He just went through his Season 1 character arc again.
I agree with you in almost everything, the difference is that I actually care about the baby...
I wanted to leave Kenny behind since season 1, he never was my "bro" or my "friend"... In episode 1 he was cool, but when he didn't help Shawn i tought "that guy will make that everyone die"... He never cared about my Clem in season 1, that was what he said in episode 5 in othe words... In meat locker, I don't blame him, but he could try something diferent, he could wait and if Larry became zombie then he can kill him, I'll cite Lee "you are smart Clem, they are not"...
And yes if they put a little more effort in the game the game could be good as Heavy Rain.... that game is a master piece and has18 different endings deppending on your actions !
In season one my Lee thought taking Clem was a bad idea. There was absolutely no reason to my Lee to not leave Clem.
I believe we ha… moreve talked about this subject already. If you are talking about Lee taking care of Clementine once he found her, he acted pretty much like any adult would have done, when they see a child in danger. But times change and eventually you have to look after yourself, if you want to survive. If Lee never took Clementine with him, he could have possibly survived longer, but back then, it would have been very inhumane decision to leave a child behind. Lee's decision to take Clementine with him was logical. Clementine not leaving Kenny, after how she saw him and his plans, was very illogical decision, thus the reason im complaining about it. However, leaving Kenny behind and going back to south wouldnt have given the player the emotional reaction which Telltale wanted player to experience, so they made Clementine … [view original content]
no,but the way you defend every move she makes on the forum says enough doesn't it?
Then why did she risk her life to save Clementine from the lake, if she decided to go help luke/broke the ice?
She already chose Clem by that time and the whole group was there thats why, but when alone or with 1 2 others she acts like someone who doesn't care about lifes and wants to abandon them .
Look at Sarah or AJ or Kenny or troy she wanted to lose them or kill them
And your wrong again well i already told you that just looking around on this forum proofs your wrong
And now i'm done with this , i've said what i wanted to say
Jane did what was right in her mind but that doesn't make it right.
Have i ever said so?
If she had to make an effort for some… moreone she'd rather leave them behind or kill them
Then why did she risk her life to save Clementine from the lake, if she decided to go help luke/broke the ice?
We've all seen it, just like you defending jane at all causes but kenny is always wrong and thats when the arguments start
Wrong again.
he could wait and if Larry became zombie then he can kill him, I'll cite Lee "you are smart Clem, they are not"...
He should have given Lilly more time or atleast convince her that they should make sure Larry wont turn. Just doing it like that made him look like a murderer in Lilly's eyes and that lead to her mental breakdown and Carley being murdered/Doug being killed. Kenny's hasty decisions have caused problems in both seasons.
And yes if they put a little more effort in the game the game could be good as Heavy Rain.... that game is a master piece and has18 different endings deppending on your actions !
I agree with you in almost everything, the difference is that I actually care about the baby...
I wanted to leave Kenny behind since seas… moreon 1, he never was my "bro" or my "friend"... In episode 1 he was cool, but when he didn't help Shawn i tought "that guy will make that everyone die"... He never cared about my Clem in season 1, that was what he said in episode 5 in othe words... In meat locker, I don't blame him, but he could try something diferent, he could wait and if Larry became zombie then he can kill him, I'll cite Lee "you are smart Clem, they are not"...
And yes if they put a little more effort in the game the game could be good as Heavy Rain.... that game is a master piece and has18 different endings deppending on your actions !
no,but the way you defend every move she makes on the forum says enough doesn't it?
It doesnt? You are just making assumptions, which are wrong.
but when alone or with 1 2 others she acts like someone who doesn't care about lifes and wants to abandon them
She doesnt care about people she doesnt even know? Whats the big deal?
Look at Sarah or AJ or Kenny or troy she wanted to lose them or kill them
After she saw Sarah, it reminded her about Jamie and she wanted to leave. Before that, she was willing to help them.
Kenny was driving them at north to search for a place even he wasnt sure existed and he made it clear that the car isnt turning around. It was a suicidal plan and i can see why Jane didnt want to go north. Leaving Kenny behind would be only way to have the car, same plan which Bonnie, Arvo and Mike already had.
Why would you even bring up Troy? If she didnt kill him, the whole group would have died. It was unnecessary to shoot his dick off, but i suppose she really hate him.
And your wrong again well i already told you that just looking around on this forum proofs your wrong
And now i'm done with this , i've said what i wanted to say
So you make arguments, which are rather silly and say you are done?
Have i ever said so?
no,but the way you defend every move she makes on the forum says enough doesn't it?
Then why did she risk… more her life to save Clementine from the lake, if she decided to go help luke/broke the ice?
She already chose Clem by that time and the whole group was there thats why, but when alone or with 1 2 others she acts like someone who doesn't care about lifes and wants to abandon them .
Look at Sarah or AJ or Kenny or troy she wanted to lose them or kill them
And your wrong again well i already told you that just looking around on this forum proofs your wrong
And now i'm done with this , i've said what i wanted to say
It's in your opinion that Jane didn't endanger her life. Others disagree. Some say Kenny always had her best interests at heart, and that that's what really matters. I'm not here to argue one way or the other. Both had faults. Both fucked up. Neither are perfect to help Clem survive. But again, this isn't the point being made.
If you didn't want to kill Kenny then there would at least be some restraint in your decision at the end. And as I said, even if you didn't have hesitations or reflections on both characters or anything of the sort, most did. It was a fine choice by Telltale to pit the two against each other and make the player choose, because most don't hate Jane, and most don't hate Kenny. Hard to end the life of someone who isn't trying to hurt you. Even more heartbreaking when deep down you know both are doing what they feel is the best thing for Clementine.
I'm not here to argue why Kenny or Jane is better. I don't think I've implied that anywhere in this discussion. Why do you keep bringing it back to that? Obsession?
It all comes back to a single line I said earlier: "they need to railroad the story, or there wouldn't be a story"
She can talk smack about Jane as well, so if you are going to argue for ditching Kenny you must also argue on the point of ditching Jane. I … moredon't mind either of them not coming to pass. It was still a pretty good story.
Well unlike Kenny, Jane didnt really put Clementine in danger and there wouldnt have been good reason to leave her. If she actually kept putting Clementine in danger, then yes, there should have been option to leave her. The story would have been better if i didnt dislike Kenny after season 1 and start to hate in season 2. He caused one of the nicest character of season 2 to die, Walter.
Most players do like Kenny. Or if they don't like Kenny, they still don't want to kill Kenny.
I dont want to kill Kenny either, i just wanted to get him away from Clem because he kept putting her in danger and ignored her opinion about going to north and forced her to go there.
(I mean, damn, look at you so rigorous… [view original content]
It's in your opinion that Jane didn't endanger her life.
Well so far only only thing i can think of is letting Arvo live. This gave him opportunity to rob their group.
Some say Kenny always had her best interests at heart, and that that's what really matters.
Well good intentions dont always turn out to have good results. Ben is good example of this. Shooting Johnny is also good example. Good intentions dont matter if consequences are bad.
If you didn't want to kill Kenny then there would at least be some restraint in your decision at the end.
Not really. When he was walking back inside all crazy, i knew i would have to put him down one way or another.
Hard to end the life of someone who isn't trying to hurt you. Even more heartbreaking when deep down you know both are doing what they feel is the best thing for Clementine.
I know, but like i said before, i dont care if someone has good intentions, if they cause bad things to happen.
I'm not here to argue why Kenny or Jane is better. I don't think I've implied that anywhere in this discussion. Why do you keep bringing it back to that? Obsession?
Well you are the one that brought up Jane in this conversation and i simply followed by pointing out how she wasnt a threat to Clementine like Kenny was. And theres no point to throw insult.
they need to railroad the story, or there wouldn't be a story
I know... Im just arguing about them giving option to dislike Kenny and his plans, but then ignoring that and changing her character, just to stay on the same story.
It's in your opinion that Jane didn't endanger her life. Others disagree. Some say Kenny always had her best interests at heart, and that th… moreat's what really matters. I'm not here to argue one way or the other. Both had faults. Both fucked up. Neither are perfect to help Clem survive. But again, this isn't the point being made.
If you didn't want to kill Kenny then there would at least be some restraint in your decision at the end. And as I said, even if you didn't have hesitations or reflections on both characters or anything of the sort, most did. It was a fine choice by Telltale to pit the two against each other and make the player choose, because most don't hate Jane, and most don't hate Kenny. Hard to end the life of someone who isn't trying to hurt you. Even more heartbreaking when deep down you know both are doing what they feel is the best thing for Clementine.
I'm not here to argue why Kenny or Jane is better. I don't think I've… [view original content]
Well so far only only thing i can think of is letting Arvo live. This gave him opportunity to rob their group.
Skip. This isn't Kenny vs Jane
Well good intentions dont always turn out to have good results. Ben is good example of this. Shooting Johnny is also good example. Good intentions dont matter if consequences are bad.
Skip. This isn't Kenny vs Jane
Not really. When he was walking back inside all crazy, i knew i would have to put him down one way or another.
Skip. This isn't Kenny vs Jane
I know, but like i said before, i dont care if someone has good intentions, if they cause bad things to happen.
Skip. This isn't Kenny vs Jane
Well you are the one that brought up Jane in this conversation and i simply followed by pointing out how she wasnt a threat to Clementine like Kenny was. And theres no point to throw insult.
I mentioned Jane because you were arguing with Hugo that leaving Kenny should have been an option. While not addressing that if leaving Kenny should have been an option, leaving Jane should have been an option. Then going on to speak poorly about "their hand fed story." Just because I bring up a point about Kenny and Jane doesn't mean this is Kenny vs Jane. I'm not trying to insult you; but when you look at the massive amount of your posts they are all heated arguments about JANE being the best choice and KENNY being a madman who the devs should have let you leave because otherwise they are railroading the story (something that doesn't occur to you with Jane for some weird reason?). And by the premise that the majority of your posts lead to this / are about this leads me to believe you have an obsession with it.
I know... Im just arguing about them giving option to dislike Kenny and his plans, but then ignoring that and changing her character, just to stay on the same story.
You chose those options. Others chose the options that agreed with them and disagreed with Jane. Why should your choices be prioritized?
It's in your opinion that Jane didn't endanger her life.
Well so far only only thing i can think of is letting Arvo live. This gave … morehim opportunity to rob their group.
Some say Kenny always had her best interests at heart, and that that's what really matters.
Well good intentions dont always turn out to have good results. Ben is good example of this. Shooting Johnny is also good example. Good intentions dont matter if consequences are bad.
If you didn't want to kill Kenny then there would at least be some restraint in your decision at the end.
Not really. When he was walking back inside all crazy, i knew i would have to put him down one way or another.
Hard to end the life of someone who isn't trying to hurt you. Even more heartbreaking when deep down you know both are doing what they feel is the best thing for Clementine.
I know, but like i said before, i dont care if someone has good intenti… [view original content]
Uhm no... Kenny being bad choice and being alone being worst choice. Jane was best choice if your priority was survival of Clementine. Take thisinto accaunt, its not best overall, since you can define whats best by many different ways.
Why should your choices be prioritized?
Not asking for this? Im simply asking for branching story, or story which makes sense, no matter your decisions.
Well so far only only thing i can think of is letting Arvo live. This gave him opportunity to rob their group.
Skip. This isn't Kenn… morey vs Jane
Well good intentions dont always turn out to have good results. Ben is good example of this. Shooting Johnny is also good example. Good intentions dont matter if consequences are bad.
Skip. This isn't Kenny vs Jane
Not really. When he was walking back inside all crazy, i knew i would have to put him down one way or another.
Skip. This isn't Kenny vs Jane
I know, but like i said before, i dont care if someone has good intentions, if they cause bad things to happen.
Skip. This isn't Kenny vs Jane
Well you are the one that brought up Jane in this conversation and i simply followed by pointing out how she wasnt a threat to Clementine like Kenny was. And theres no point to throw insult.
I mentioned Jane because you were arguing with Hugo that le… [view original content]
Uhm no... Kenny being bad choice and being alone being worst choice. Jane was best choice if your priority was survival of Clementine. Take thisinto accaunt, its not best overall, since you can define whats best by many different ways.
Ok? My comment still rings true.
Not asking for this? Im simply asking for branching story, or story which makes sense, no matter your decisions.
You didn't even mention branching story until I came into the situation. If you did, it wasn't more than once or twice hidden inside a massive pro-Jane art collage. But again, since you only mention your choices being prioritized (leaving Kenny) and neglecting and even rejecting leaving/shooting Jane it's a pretty moot point. This is exactly what you're asking for.
JANE being the best choice
Uhm no... Kenny being bad choice and being alone being worst choice. Jane was best choice if your priorit… morey was survival of Clementine. Take thisinto accaunt, its not best overall, since you can define whats best by many different ways.
Why should your choices be prioritized?
Not asking for this? Im simply asking for branching story, or story which makes sense, no matter your decisions.
She doesn't care about people she doesn't even know...
She knew Clem just as long as the others, but then why was the Arvo thing such a big deal then, nobody knew him
Sarah reminded her of jamie and jane wanted to leave, thats PTSD (because sarah isn't jamie she only reminds her of that forgetting that she just lost her father )
I'm not making arguments , i just said what everyone on this forum can see
no,but the way you defend every move she makes on the forum says enough doesn't it?
It doesnt? You are just making assumptions, whic… moreh are wrong.
but when alone or with 1 2 others she acts like someone who doesn't care about lifes and wants to abandon them
She doesnt care about people she doesnt even know? Whats the big deal?
Look at Sarah or AJ or Kenny or troy she wanted to lose them or kill them
After she saw Sarah, it reminded her about Jamie and she wanted to leave. Before that, she was willing to help them.
Kenny was driving them at north to search for a place even he wasnt sure existed and he made it clear that the car isnt turning around. It was a suicidal plan and i can see why Jane didnt want to go north. Leaving Kenny behind would be only way to have the car, same plan which Bonnie, Arvo and Mike already had.
Why would you even bring up Troy? If she didnt kill him, the whole group would have… [view original content]
You didn't even mention branching story until I came into the situation. If you did, it wasn't more than once or twice hidden inside a massive pro-Jane art collage.
I thougt it was obvious after i mentioned heavy rain and talked about my decisions not mattering.
But again, since you only mention your choices being prioritized (leaving Kenny) and neglecting and even rejecting leaving/shooting Jane it's a pretty moot point. This is exactly what you're asking for.
Well i was focusing on Kenny, since leaving AJ would be unrealistic behaviour from Clementine and i cant think about leaving anyone else. You do have option to leave both Kenny or Jane, which comes after the fight, but im just talking about leaving people before they get others killed through their actions. Kenny had already done this and Jane will, if you shoot Kenny in the fight. Before that fight ending, there wasnt any logical reason to leave Jane behind, but there sure was to leave Kenny and deciding to dislike Kenny and his plans through dialogues and actions would just make leaving Kenny more obvious decision.
Uhm no... Kenny being bad choice and being alone being worst choice. Jane was best choice if your priority was survival of Clementine. Take … morethisinto accaunt, its not best overall, since you can define whats best by many different ways.
Ok? My comment still rings true.
Not asking for this? Im simply asking for branching story, or story which makes sense, no matter your decisions.
You didn't even mention branching story until I came into the situation. If you did, it wasn't more than once or twice hidden inside a massive pro-Jane art collage. But again, since you only mention your choices being prioritized (leaving Kenny) and neglecting and even rejecting leaving/shooting Jane it's a pretty moot point. This is exactly what you're asking for.
She doesn't care about people she doesn't even know...
This is what i said and how i think irl?
She knew Clem just as long as the others, but then why was the Arvo thing such a big deal then, nobody knew him
Clem is the only person she really talked with. What Arvo thing?
Sarah reminded her of jamie and jane wanted to leave, thats PTSD (because sarah isn't jamie she only reminds her of that forgetting that she just lost her father )
And do you think she was thinking clearly that moment? All she saw was another Jamie situation and wanted to leave.
I'm not making arguments , i just said what everyone on this forum can see
She doesn't care about people she doesn't even know...
She knew Clem just as long as the others, but then why was the Arvo thing such a b… moreig deal then, nobody knew him
Sarah reminded her of jamie and jane wanted to leave, thats PTSD (because sarah isn't jamie she only reminds her of that forgetting that she just lost her father )
I'm not making arguments , i just said what everyone on this forum can see
If Clementine was as stupid as Kenny (making assumptions and acting upon them blindly), Jane did all that in vain and it was her mistake for thinking that Clementine was intelligent.
Clementine wasn't stupid. It was Jane who was stupid to endanger a baby just so she can start a fight to the death with someone a lot stronger than she is. Jane's last action ends up getting her dumb self killed.
I should have been more clear that it was my personal opinion, Clementine did care about the baby, no doubt about that.
Hence, Clementine should have been able to shoot the reckless and stupid Jane for endangering the baby, planning to kill her uncle and endangering the whole group with her recklessness.
Clementine and Kenny did not guess that Jane had hidden the baby, but they thought something worse: that Jane had gotten the baby killed. Be… morefore the fight Clementine asks Jane "What did you do?!", and after the fight she tells Kenny "I thought that Jane may have killed him".
If Clementine was as stupid as Kenny (making assumptions and acting upon them blindly), Jane did all that in vain and it was her mistake for thinking that Clementine was intelligent.
You and Jane may not have cared about the baby, but Clementine did. It's not even determinant.
Well i care about the baby less than Jane. She atleast kept the baby alive and showed that she cared about the baby somewhat. I should have been more clear that it was my personal opinion, Clementine did care about the baby, no doubt about that.
Jane picked a fight with the Russians which almost got everyone in the group dead, including Clementine. Jane also left a wounded Clementine to defend herself from walkers.
She can talk smack about Jane as well, so if you are going to argue for ditching Kenny you must also argue on the point of ditching Jane. I … moredon't mind either of them not coming to pass. It was still a pretty good story.
Well unlike Kenny, Jane didnt really put Clementine in danger and there wouldnt have been good reason to leave her. If she actually kept putting Clementine in danger, then yes, there should have been option to leave her. The story would have been better if i didnt dislike Kenny after season 1 and start to hate in season 2. He caused one of the nicest character of season 2 to die, Walter.
Most players do like Kenny. Or if they don't like Kenny, they still don't want to kill Kenny.
I dont want to kill Kenny either, i just wanted to get him away from Clem because he kept putting her in danger and ignored her opinion about going to north and forced her to go there.
(I mean, damn, look at you so rigorous… [view original content]
I thougt it was obvious after i mentioned heavy rain and talked about my decisions not mattering.
A feebled attempt to justify a bias argument. I didn't see you mention heavy Rain or choice not mattering anywhere with Hugo, in fact going out of your way to prove why the option to shoot Jane shouldn't be implemented and leaving Kenny should have been. Again back to either prioritizing your choices, or just wanting the devs to abandon the "hand fed story" because you don't agree with it. If it truly was your intention to argue on behalf of branching story (which is silly in itself, as I said, Reese's Cups making Twix) then why did you act positively to one branching story you liked and negatively to one you didn't? Holes.
Well i was focusing on Kenny,
You deliberately put him down. You focused as much on promoting Jane as you did degrading Kenny. So that's a moot point also.
since leaving AJ would be unrealistic behaviour from Clementine and i cant think about leaving anyone else. You do have option to leave both Kenny or Jane, which comes after the fight, but im just talking about leaving people before they get others killed through their actions. Kenny had already done this and Jane will, if you shoot Kenny in the fight. Before that fight ending, there wasnt any logical reason to leave Jane behind, but there sure was to leave Kenny and deciding to dislike Kenny and his plans through dialogues and actions would just make leaving Kenny more obvious decision.
More subjective degradation of Kenny in a hopes to make it look like you were promoting branching story, while you actively tried to diminish the branching story where you get to shoot Jane.
You didn't even mention branching story until I came into the situation. If you did, it wasn't more than once or twice hidden inside a massi… moreve pro-Jane art collage.
I thougt it was obvious after i mentioned heavy rain and talked about my decisions not mattering.
But again, since you only mention your choices being prioritized (leaving Kenny) and neglecting and even rejecting leaving/shooting Jane it's a pretty moot point. This is exactly what you're asking for.
Well i was focusing on Kenny, since leaving AJ would be unrealistic behaviour from Clementine and i cant think about leaving anyone else. You do have option to leave both Kenny or Jane, which comes after the fight, but im just talking about leaving people before they get others killed through their actions. Kenny had already done this and Jane will, if you shoot Kenny in the fight. Before that fight ending, there wasnt any logical reason to leave Jane behind, but … [view original content]
I have already explained why AJ wasnt in any real danger, so could you drop that argument already?
So should she also have option to shoot Kenny for getting Walter executed? Should Lee have option to execute Lilly? Should we have option to let Kenny murder Ben?
If it was up to me, i would have let Kenny walk away alive, but for some reason you want to murder Jane? Whats up with that?
If Clementine was as stupid as Kenny (making assumptions and acting upon them blindly), Jane did all that in vain and it was her mistake for… more thinking that Clementine was intelligent.
Clementine wasn't stupid. It was Jane who was stupid to endanger a baby just so she can start a fight to the death with someone a lot stronger than she is. Jane's last action ends up getting her dumb self killed.
I should have been more clear that it was my personal opinion, Clementine did care about the baby, no doubt about that.
Hence, Clementine should have been able to shoot the reckless and stupid Jane for endangering the baby, planning to kill her uncle and endangering the whole group with her recklessness.
No. My Clementine's choices were valid. That relationship can exist whether or not you want to accept it.
I have already explained why AJ wasnt in any real danger, so could you drop that argument already?
No. I'm not at all convinced that the baby left alone in a car surrounded by walkers that could alert them to him with a mere cry was not in danger, and neither was the character Clementine in the story.
If it was up to me, i would have let Kenny walk away alive, but for some reason you want to murder Jane? Whats up with that?
Why should I be concerned about what you would choose with Kenny in your game? Why should it be relevant at all to the choice I want with Jane in my game?
Stop talking shit about Kenny being her uncle.
I have already explained why AJ wasnt in any real danger, so could you drop that argument … morealready?
So should she also have option to shoot Kenny for getting Walter executed? Should Lee have option to execute Lilly? Should we have option to let Kenny murder Ben?
If it was up to me, i would have let Kenny walk away alive, but for some reason you want to murder Jane? Whats up with that?
I didn't see you mention heavy Rain or choice not mattering anywhere with Hugo
I mentioned it on first reply at you. He focused on other matters than the game development in our conversation.
then why did you act positively to one branching story you liked and negatively to one you didn't? Holes.
Because im aiming for realism? Leaving AJ would be the wisest thing to do, but im not arguing that there should be option to do that, because it would be unrealistic behaviour from Clementine.
More subjective degradation of Kenny in a hopes to make it look like you were promoting branching story, while you actively tried to diminish the branching story where you get to shoot Jane.
You dont just care anymore, do you? If all you want to do is mock me, there is no point to continue this conversation.
Why would Clementine want to shoot someone, who is defending herself in a fight she did not start? Please explain this.
I thougt it was obvious after i mentioned heavy rain and talked about my decisions not mattering.
A feebled attempt to justify a bia… mores argument. I didn't see you mention heavy Rain or choice not mattering anywhere with Hugo, in fact going out of your way to prove why the option to shoot Jane shouldn't be implemented and leaving Kenny should have been. Again back to either prioritizing your choices, or just wanting the devs to abandon the "hand fed story" because you don't agree with it. If it truly was your intention to argue on behalf of branching story (which is silly in itself, as I said, Reese's Cups making Twix) then why did you act positively to one branching story you liked and negatively to one you didn't? Holes.
Well i was focusing on Kenny,
You deliberately put him down. You focused as much on promoting Jane as you did degrading Kenny. So that's a moot point also.
since leaving AJ would be unrealistic beha… [view original content]
No. My Clementine's choices were valid. That relationship can exist whether or not you want to accept it.
Its still Kenny. You dont see me calling Jane as her sister either, so why dont you stop?
No. I'm not at all convinced that the baby left alone in a car surrounded by walkers that could alert them to him with a mere cry was not in danger,
Did you miss the scene before rest stop completely? Clementine can shoot walkers and they dont react to even gun shots, so how could they possibly react to baby crying? And there wasnt even any walkers near the car, so "car surrounded by walkers" statement is just full of shit.
Why should I be concerned about what you would choose with Kenny in your game? Why should it at all be relevant to the choice I want with Jane in my game?
Because Clementine isnt a psychopath on killing spree. Why dont we get option to murder AJ and pretty much everyone else in the game? Clementine as a character has boundaries in what she is "willing" to do.
Stop talking shit about Kenny being her uncle.
No. My Clementine's choices were valid. That relationship can exist whether or not yo… moreu want to accept it.
I have already explained why AJ wasnt in any real danger, so could you drop that argument already?
No. I'm not at all convinced that the baby left alone in a car surrounded by walkers that could alert them to him with a mere cry was not in danger, and neither was the character Clementine in the story.
If it was up to me, i would have let Kenny walk away alive, but for some reason you want to murder Jane? Whats up with that?
Why should I be concerned about what you would choose with Kenny in your game? Why should it be relevant at all to the choice I want with Jane in my game?
I mentioned it on first reply at you. He focused on other matters than the game development in our conversation
But never in the conversation I was insinuating of. It may have rendered into a Kenny vs Jane reply streak, but the entire time you fought for leaving Kenny and against shooting Jane. Point and case.
Because im aiming for realism? Leaving AJ would be the wisest thing to do, but im not arguing that there should be option to do that, because it would be unrealistic behaviour from Clementine.
Again another feebled attempt to cover yourself with an obviously not applicable statement. Had you been arguing about branching story line then it wouldn't have mattered if leaving Kenny was more realistic because both should have been implemented. (Again, you never mention this with Hugo)
You dont just care anymore, do you? If all you want to do is mock me, there is no point to continue this conversation.
How is pointing out a fact which eats away at your story mocking you? It's like if I were to give facts about why Obama's health care plan is bad, then him saying I am mocking him. Hiding behind this "I was talking about branching story!" argument just doesn't add up.
Why would Clementine want to shoot someone, who is defending herself in a fight she did not start? Please explain this.
Why would she want to leave Kenny? Because the fans want it. Prioritizing your choices again?
^^ This is NOT enticing a "Well this is the reason people should want to leave Kenny," rebuttal. I feel I need to explain that.
I didn't see you mention heavy Rain or choice not mattering anywhere with Hugo
I mentioned it on first reply at you. He focused on o… morether matters than the game development in our conversation.
then why did you act positively to one branching story you liked and negatively to one you didn't? Holes.
Because im aiming for realism? Leaving AJ would be the wisest thing to do, but im not arguing that there should be option to do that, because it would be unrealistic behaviour from Clementine.
More subjective degradation of Kenny in a hopes to make it look like you were promoting branching story, while you actively tried to diminish the branching story where you get to shoot Jane.
You dont just care anymore, do you? If all you want to do is mock me, there is no point to continue this conversation.
Why would Clementine want to shoot someone, who is defending herself in a fight she did not start? Please explain this.
Jane picked a fight with the Russians which almost got everyone in the group dead
Prove it? As far as i know, Arvo was just a thief and mugger. He stole from his own group and after he knows about your group, he tries to rob you.
Jane also left a wounded Clementine to defend herself from walkers.
If you are referring to the car crash scene, Jane couldnt do anything inside the car, she had a baby in her arms and 2 walkers were coming at her outside. Alternative would have been to drop the baby and kill the walkers with her knife.
Jane didnt really put Clementine in danger
Jane picked a fight with the Russians which almost got everyone in the group dead, including Clementine. Jane also left a wounded Clementine to defend herself from walkers.
Its still Kenny. You dont see me calling Jane as her sister either, so why dont you stop?
Because the relationship is relevant to the choice. She doesn't want to take the chance that her uncle could get killed by the mad person who engineered the fight.
Did you miss the scene before rest stop completely? Clementine can shoot walkers and they dont react to even gun shots, so how could they possibly react to baby crying? And there wasnt even any walkers near the car, so "car surrounded by walkers" statement is just full of shit.
A walker attacks Clementine when she just exits the car. They were not passive. It's still very reckless and stupid of Jane to leave a baby in that situation.
Because Clementine isnt a psychopath on killing spree. Why dont we get option to murder AJ and pretty much everyone else in the game? Clementine as a character has boundaries in what she is "willing" to do.
Again, Clementine is not a psychopath. It was perfectly rational for Clementine to protect her uncle from the actual psychopath who engineered that fight to the death. The psychopath ends up getting her dumb self killed.
No. My Clementine's choices were valid. That relationship can exist whether or not you want to accept it.
Its still Kenny. You dont … moresee me calling Jane as her sister either, so why dont you stop?
No. I'm not at all convinced that the baby left alone in a car surrounded by walkers that could alert them to him with a mere cry was not in danger,
Did you miss the scene before rest stop completely? Clementine can shoot walkers and they dont react to even gun shots, so how could they possibly react to baby crying? And there wasnt even any walkers near the car, so "car surrounded by walkers" statement is just full of shit.
Why should I be concerned about what you would choose with Kenny in your game? Why should it at all be relevant to the choice I want with Jane in my game?
Because Clementine isnt a psychopath on killing spree. Why dont we get option to murder AJ and pretty much everyone else in the game? Clementine as a character has boundaries in what she is "willing" to do.
But never in the conversation I was insinuating of. It may have rendered into a Kenny vs Jane reply streak, but the entire time you fought for leaving Kenny and against shooting Jane. Point and case.
These are 2 seperate conversation, we are talking about choices being nullified in game and with hugo, its another typical Jane vs Kenny talk. Try to focus on this one.
Again another feebled attempt to cover yourself with an obviously not applicable statement. Had you been arguing about branching story line then it wouldn't have mattered if leaving Kenny was more realistic because both should have been implemented. (Again, you never mention this with Hugo)
I did mention this to him "Clementine as a character has boundaries in what she is "willing" to do."
And please, focus on this conversation.
How is pointing out a fact which eats away at your story mocking you?
You are implying that is a fact... All i wanted was realism and you treat this as biased argument, because i dont consider shooting Jane as realistic behaviour from Clementine.
Why would she want to leave Kenny? ^^ This is NOT enticing a "Well this is the reason people should want to leave Kenny," rebuttal. I feel I need to explain that.
So how do you expect me to answer this, if you wont allow me to give proper answer? Are you just annoying me on purpose now?
I mentioned it on first reply at you. He focused on other matters than the game development in our conversation
But never in the con… moreversation I was insinuating of. It may have rendered into a Kenny vs Jane reply streak, but the entire time you fought for leaving Kenny and against shooting Jane. Point and case.
Because im aiming for realism? Leaving AJ would be the wisest thing to do, but im not arguing that there should be option to do that, because it would be unrealistic behaviour from Clementine.
Again another feebled attempt to cover yourself with an obviously not applicable statement. Had you been arguing about branching story line then it wouldn't have mattered if leaving Kenny was more realistic because both should have been implemented. (Again, you never mention this with Hugo)
You dont just care anymore, do you? If all you want to do is mock me, there is no point to continue this conversation.
How … [view original content]
Prove it? As far as i know, Arvo was just a thief and mugger. He stole from his own group and after he knows about your group, he tries to rob you.
The two statements are not mutually exclusive. Jane's recklessness got the Russians to attack the group. Btw, Arvo was simply leaving the group with his own supplies, but that's not relevant to my argument.
If you are referring to the car crash scene, Jane couldnt do anything inside the car, she had a baby in her arms and 2 walkers were coming at her outside. Alternative would have been to drop the baby and kill the walkers with her knife.
Jane can't think of keeping the baby on the seat while she secures the area around the car?
Jane picked a fight with the Russians which almost got everyone in the group dead
Prove it? As far as i know, Arvo was just a thief … moreand mugger. He stole from his own group and after he knows about your group, he tries to rob you.
Jane also left a wounded Clementine to defend herself from walkers.
If you are referring to the car crash scene, Jane couldnt do anything inside the car, she had a baby in her arms and 2 walkers were coming at her outside. Alternative would have been to drop the baby and kill the walkers with her knife.
She doesn't want to take the chance that her uncle could get killed by the mad person who engineered the fight.
She knows as much as Kenny knows, so she had no proper reason to shoot her, just as how Kenny didnt have proper reason to try murder Jane.
A walker attacks Clementine when she just exits the car. They were not passive. It's still very reckless and stupid of Jane to leave a baby in that situation.
So you decided to ignore the facts i provided completely? And yes, it was stupid to leave the baby alone, but it wasnt in any greater danger than just being outside in a snowstorm.
Again, Clementine is not a psychopath. It was perfectly rational for Clementine to protect her uncle from the actual psychopath who engineered that fight to the death. The psychopath ends up getting her dumb self killed.
Well you do have lousy reading comprehension skills, thats for sure.
So if your friend tries to murder someone else, you go there and help him to murder that person? You are pretty sick, if this is how you would do.
Its still Kenny. You dont see me calling Jane as her sister either, so why dont you stop?
Because the relationship is relevant to th… moree choice. She doesn't want to take the chance that her uncle could get killed by the mad person who engineered the fight.
Did you miss the scene before rest stop completely? Clementine can shoot walkers and they dont react to even gun shots, so how could they possibly react to baby crying? And there wasnt even any walkers near the car, so "car surrounded by walkers" statement is just full of shit.
A walker attacks Clementine when she just exits the car. They were not passive. It's still very reckless and stupid of Jane to leave a baby in that situation.
Because Clementine isnt a psychopath on killing spree. Why dont we get option to murder AJ and pretty much everyone else in the game? Clementine as a character has boundaries in what she is "willing" to do.
Again, Clementine is … [view original content]
Jane's recklessness got the Russians to attack the group. Btw, Arvo was simply leaving the group with his own supplies, but that's not relevant to my argument.
So many baseless assumptions.
Jane can't think of keeping the baby on the seat while she secures the area around the car?
Have you not seen the scene before? The walker could almost reach her/the baby and she had to go outside asap and after few seconds, 2 walkers were coming at her.
Prove it? As far as i know, Arvo was just a thief and mugger. He stole from his own group and after he knows about your group, he tries to r… moreob you.
The two statements are not mutually exclusive. Jane's recklessness got the Russians to attack the group. Btw, Arvo was simply leaving the group with his own supplies, but that's not relevant to my argument.
If you are referring to the car crash scene, Jane couldnt do anything inside the car, she had a baby in her arms and 2 walkers were coming at her outside. Alternative would have been to drop the baby and kill the walkers with her knife.
Jane can't think of keeping the baby on the seat while she secures the area around the car?
She knows as much as Kenny knows, so she had no proper reason to shoot her, just as how Kenny didnt have proper reason to try murder Jane.
Clementine doesn't have to be clairvoyant. She suspects Jane of having killed the baby, and she suspects that she did that to get Kenny riled up. She sees that Kenny is unarmed and Jane has a large knife. She doesn't want to take a chance that Kenny might lose the fight, so she shoots Jane. It's very proper.
So if your friend tries to murder someone else, you go there and help him to murder that person? You are pretty sick, if this is how you would do.
If my Clementine suspects that a habitually reckless person kills a baby to get her uncle into a fight, she would do what's necessary to not lose her uncle, especially when she sees that the reckless person has a large knife and her uncle is unarmed.
She doesn't want to take the chance that her uncle could get killed by the mad person who engineered the fight.
She knows as much as… more Kenny knows, so she had no proper reason to shoot her, just as how Kenny didnt have proper reason to try murder Jane.
A walker attacks Clementine when she just exits the car. They were not passive. It's still very reckless and stupid of Jane to leave a baby in that situation.
So you decided to ignore the facts i provided completely? And yes, it was stupid to leave the baby alone, but it wasnt in any greater danger than just being outside in a snowstorm.
Again, Clementine is not a psychopath. It was perfectly rational for Clementine to protect her uncle from the actual psychopath who engineered that fight to the death. The psychopath ends up getting her dumb self killed.
Well you do have lousy reading comprehension skills, thats for sure.
So if your friend tries to murder so… [view original content]
Comments
I believe we have talked about this subject already. If you are talking about Lee taking care of Clementine once he found her, he acted pretty much like any adult would have done, when they see a child in danger. But times change and eventually you have to look after yourself, if you want to survive. If Lee never took Clementine with him, he could have possibly survived longer, but back then, it would have been very inhumane decision to leave a child behind. Lee's decision to take Clementine with him was logical. Clementine not leaving Kenny, after how she saw him and his plans, was very illogical decision, thus the reason im complaining about it. However, leaving Kenny behind and going back to south wouldnt have given the player the emotional reaction which Telltale wanted player to experience, so they made Clementine stay no matter how she saw Kenny.
I was really pissed off when Clementine suddenly decided not to leave Kenny behind, because i personally wanted to do that long time ago in season 1 and later in season 2 and i did my best to show Kenny and others how my Clementine doesnt like Kenny. But the writers decided to keep them close no matter what, while i was hoping for similar reaction like with Kenny and Lilly not helping you sometimes or being more hostile towards you, when you dont do as they want in season 1.
ps. Have you checked heavy rain? If they put more effort in the game, they could try to do what heavy rain did.
If Clementine was as stupid as Kenny (making assumptions and acting upon them blindly), Jane did all that in vain and it was her mistake for thinking that Clementine was intelligent.
Well i care about the baby less than Jane. She atleast kept the baby alive and showed that she cared about the baby somewhat. I should have been more clear that it was my personal opinion, Clementine did care about the baby, no doubt about that.
You and I haven't talked about this yet. And you misinterpret. I'm not saying Lee taking Clem was the right or wrong choice, good or bad, or rational or irrational. I'm saying that they need to railroad the story, or there wouldn't be a story. Clem not shooting Jane, or not abandoning Kenny earlier both fall under the same category. Necessary hand feeding. You argue against one and for the other, but both fall victim to the exact same circumstances. Biasness (you wanting to leave Kenny) is inconsequential because, in order to tell the story, your Clementine can't want to leave Kenny. If the creators catered to everyone's wants (ie, me wanting my Lee to want to leave Clem) it would be a haywire, hollow game (if you could even call it a game, so many different paths would take years and years to construct).
Lastly, they put a lot of effort into the game. Even though I was disappointed with S2, I can still see the creators care about the world they are creating. They aren't trying to make a Heavy Rain. They are putting effort into a different kind of story. It's sort of like saying the people who make Reese's Cups should put more effort into making candy like Twix.
I do realize this, but the thing which annoys me is that they give option to disagree with Kenny's plan and think he is dangerous and even after he is forcing you to go north on suicide mission, she doesnt want to leave him and save her life basically. And they build the final choice around player caring about Kenny, who i didnt care about, so it didnt the ending wasnt even that great imo. It was a bad call from telltale to assume player likes Kenny and make the story pretty much revolve around him.
I miss the times when " X remembers that" used to matter atleast some.
She can talk smack about Jane as well, so if you are going to argue for ditching Kenny you must also argue on the point of ditching Jane. I don't mind either of them not coming to pass. It was still a pretty good story.
Most players do like Kenny. Or if they don't like Kenny, they still don't want to kill Kenny. Because of this Telltale did a pretty good job with the ending. Again, they can't cater to the whims of each player. Assuming the player likes (or doesn't want to kill) Kenny it is completely understandable and not a bad call because for the majority it was a tough choice. And for those who it wasn't a tough call, well they have stern reasoning for why they felt they made the right choice (I mean, damn, look at you so rigorously defend Jane without even (usually) considering the other side of the story).
I also miss that. Felt like that was a reoccurring theme this season. (?)____ will remember that. I don't believe you anymore!
Well unlike Kenny, Jane didnt really put Clementine in danger and there wouldnt have been good reason to leave her. If she actually kept putting Clementine in danger, then yes, there should have been option to leave her. The story would have been better if i didnt dislike Kenny after season 1 and start to hate in season 2. He caused one of the nicest character of season 2 to die, Walter.
I dont want to kill Kenny either, i just wanted to get him away from Clem because he kept putting her in danger and ignored her opinion about going to north and forced her to go there.
Well i cant see any rational reason for picking Kenny, assuming your priority is survival of Clementine. I dont have any problem if people base their decisions on emotions, but if they claim otherwise, of course im going to argue about that.
They engineered his final scenes so that he can be valorized as a hero and leave you with 'feels'. Even if you kill him, Kenny forgives you and the game forces you to believe that he's redeemed in his last moments. This is at odds with the supposedly cynical atmosphere of The Walking Dead, and this inconsistency is why I'm left feeling uncomfortable even though Kenny's determinant status means this is his last episode. He should have stayed dead in the first place.
[Romantic Titanic piano theme plays...]
Kenny: Draw me like one of your French boats.
Telltale:
Have i ever said so?
Then why did she risk her life to save Clementine from the lake, if she decided to go help luke/broke the ice?
Wrong again.
I want to hopefully assume that Telltale got rid of Kenny since they realized that having him back was a mistake and how they handled Kenny in season 2 was bad. He just went through his Season 1 character arc again.
I agree with you in almost everything, the difference is that I actually care about the baby...
I wanted to leave Kenny behind since season 1, he never was my "bro" or my "friend"... In episode 1 he was cool, but when he didn't help Shawn i tought "that guy will make that everyone die"... He never cared about my Clem in season 1, that was what he said in episode 5 in othe words... In meat locker, I don't blame him, but he could try something diferent, he could wait and if Larry became zombie then he can kill him, I'll cite Lee "you are smart Clem, they are not"...
And yes if they put a little more effort in the game the game could be good as Heavy Rain.... that game is a master piece and has18 different endings deppending on your actions !
no,but the way you defend every move she makes on the forum says enough doesn't it?
She already chose Clem by that time and the whole group was there thats why, but when alone or with 1 2 others she acts like someone who doesn't care about lifes and wants to abandon them .
Look at Sarah or AJ or Kenny or troy she wanted to lose them or kill them
And your wrong again well i already told you that just looking around on this forum proofs your wrong
And now i'm done with this , i've said what i wanted to say
He should have given Lilly more time or atleast convince her that they should make sure Larry wont turn. Just doing it like that made him look like a murderer in Lilly's eyes and that lead to her mental breakdown and Carley being murdered/Doug being killed. Kenny's hasty decisions have caused problems in both seasons.
If only...
It doesnt? You are just making assumptions, which are wrong.
She doesnt care about people she doesnt even know? Whats the big deal?
After she saw Sarah, it reminded her about Jamie and she wanted to leave. Before that, she was willing to help them.
Kenny was driving them at north to search for a place even he wasnt sure existed and he made it clear that the car isnt turning around. It was a suicidal plan and i can see why Jane didnt want to go north. Leaving Kenny behind would be only way to have the car, same plan which Bonnie, Arvo and Mike already had.
Why would you even bring up Troy? If she didnt kill him, the whole group would have died. It was unnecessary to shoot his dick off, but i suppose she really hate him.
And now i'm done with this , i've said what i wanted to say
So you make arguments, which are rather silly and say you are done?
It's in your opinion that Jane didn't endanger her life. Others disagree. Some say Kenny always had her best interests at heart, and that that's what really matters. I'm not here to argue one way or the other. Both had faults. Both fucked up. Neither are perfect to help Clem survive. But again, this isn't the point being made.
If you didn't want to kill Kenny then there would at least be some restraint in your decision at the end. And as I said, even if you didn't have hesitations or reflections on both characters or anything of the sort, most did. It was a fine choice by Telltale to pit the two against each other and make the player choose, because most don't hate Jane, and most don't hate Kenny. Hard to end the life of someone who isn't trying to hurt you. Even more heartbreaking when deep down you know both are doing what they feel is the best thing for Clementine.
I'm not here to argue why Kenny or Jane is better. I don't think I've implied that anywhere in this discussion. Why do you keep bringing it back to that? Obsession?
It all comes back to a single line I said earlier: "they need to railroad the story, or there wouldn't be a story"
There should be a whole community of moaning bitches
On how they think it shoulda went down xD
If TTG wanted to get rid of Kenny he would have never come back in Season Two.
Well so far only only thing i can think of is letting Arvo live. This gave him opportunity to rob their group.
Well good intentions dont always turn out to have good results. Ben is good example of this. Shooting Johnny is also good example. Good intentions dont matter if consequences are bad.
Not really. When he was walking back inside all crazy, i knew i would have to put him down one way or another.
I know, but like i said before, i dont care if someone has good intentions, if they cause bad things to happen.
Well you are the one that brought up Jane in this conversation and i simply followed by pointing out how she wasnt a threat to Clementine like Kenny was. And theres no point to throw insult.
I know... Im just arguing about them giving option to dislike Kenny and his plans, but then ignoring that and changing her character, just to stay on the same story.
Skip. This isn't Kenny vs Jane
Skip. This isn't Kenny vs Jane
Skip. This isn't Kenny vs Jane
Skip. This isn't Kenny vs Jane
I mentioned Jane because you were arguing with Hugo that leaving Kenny should have been an option. While not addressing that if leaving Kenny should have been an option, leaving Jane should have been an option. Then going on to speak poorly about "their hand fed story." Just because I bring up a point about Kenny and Jane doesn't mean this is Kenny vs Jane. I'm not trying to insult you; but when you look at the massive amount of your posts they are all heated arguments about JANE being the best choice and KENNY being a madman who the devs should have let you leave because otherwise they are railroading the story (something that doesn't occur to you with Jane for some weird reason?). And by the premise that the majority of your posts lead to this / are about this leads me to believe you have an obsession with it.
You chose those options. Others chose the options that agreed with them and disagreed with Jane. Why should your choices be prioritized?
Uhm no... Kenny being bad choice and being alone being worst choice. Jane was best choice if your priority was survival of Clementine. Take thisinto accaunt, its not best overall, since you can define whats best by many different ways.
Not asking for this? Im simply asking for branching story, or story which makes sense, no matter your decisions.
Ok? My comment still rings true.
You didn't even mention branching story until I came into the situation. If you did, it wasn't more than once or twice hidden inside a massive pro-Jane art collage. But again, since you only mention your choices being prioritized (leaving Kenny) and neglecting and even rejecting leaving/shooting Jane it's a pretty moot point. This is exactly what you're asking for.
She doesn't care about people she doesn't even know...
She knew Clem just as long as the others, but then why was the Arvo thing such a big deal then, nobody knew him
Sarah reminded her of jamie and jane wanted to leave, thats PTSD (because sarah isn't jamie she only reminds her of that forgetting that she just lost her father )
I'm not making arguments , i just said what everyone on this forum can see
I thougt it was obvious after i mentioned heavy rain and talked about my decisions not mattering.
Well i was focusing on Kenny, since leaving AJ would be unrealistic behaviour from Clementine and i cant think about leaving anyone else. You do have option to leave both Kenny or Jane, which comes after the fight, but im just talking about leaving people before they get others killed through their actions. Kenny had already done this and Jane will, if you shoot Kenny in the fight. Before that fight ending, there wasnt any logical reason to leave Jane behind, but there sure was to leave Kenny and deciding to dislike Kenny and his plans through dialogues and actions would just make leaving Kenny more obvious decision.
This is what i said and how i think irl?
Clem is the only person she really talked with. What Arvo thing?
And do you think she was thinking clearly that moment? All she saw was another Jamie situation and wanted to leave.
You cant speak for everyone, so dont.
Clementine wasn't stupid. It was Jane who was stupid to endanger a baby just so she can start a fight to the death with someone a lot stronger than she is. Jane's last action ends up getting her dumb self killed.
Hence, Clementine should have been able to shoot the reckless and stupid Jane for endangering the baby, planning to kill her uncle and endangering the whole group with her recklessness.
Jane picked a fight with the Russians which almost got everyone in the group dead, including Clementine. Jane also left a wounded Clementine to defend herself from walkers.
A feebled attempt to justify a bias argument. I didn't see you mention heavy Rain or choice not mattering anywhere with Hugo, in fact going out of your way to prove why the option to shoot Jane shouldn't be implemented and leaving Kenny should have been. Again back to either prioritizing your choices, or just wanting the devs to abandon the "hand fed story" because you don't agree with it. If it truly was your intention to argue on behalf of branching story (which is silly in itself, as I said, Reese's Cups making Twix) then why did you act positively to one branching story you liked and negatively to one you didn't? Holes.
You deliberately put him down. You focused as much on promoting Jane as you did degrading Kenny. So that's a moot point also.
More subjective degradation of Kenny in a hopes to make it look like you were promoting branching story, while you actively tried to diminish the branching story where you get to shoot Jane.
Stop talking shit about Kenny being her uncle.
I have already explained why AJ wasnt in any real danger, so could you drop that argument already?
So should she also have option to shoot Kenny for getting Walter executed? Should Lee have option to execute Lilly? Should we have option to let Kenny murder Ben?
If it was up to me, i would have let Kenny walk away alive, but for some reason you want to murder Jane? Whats up with that?
No. My Clementine's choices were valid. That relationship can exist whether or not you want to accept it.
No. I'm not at all convinced that the baby left alone in a car surrounded by walkers that could alert them to him with a mere cry was not in danger, and neither was the character Clementine in the story.
Why should I be concerned about what you would choose with Kenny in your game? Why should it be relevant at all to the choice I want with Jane in my game?
I mentioned it on first reply at you. He focused on other matters than the game development in our conversation.
Because im aiming for realism? Leaving AJ would be the wisest thing to do, but im not arguing that there should be option to do that, because it would be unrealistic behaviour from Clementine.
You dont just care anymore, do you? If all you want to do is mock me, there is no point to continue this conversation.
Why would Clementine want to shoot someone, who is defending herself in a fight she did not start? Please explain this.
Its still Kenny. You dont see me calling Jane as her sister either, so why dont you stop?
Did you miss the scene before rest stop completely? Clementine can shoot walkers and they dont react to even gun shots, so how could they possibly react to baby crying? And there wasnt even any walkers near the car, so "car surrounded by walkers" statement is just full of shit.
Because Clementine isnt a psychopath on killing spree. Why dont we get option to murder AJ and pretty much everyone else in the game? Clementine as a character has boundaries in what she is "willing" to do.
But never in the conversation I was insinuating of. It may have rendered into a Kenny vs Jane reply streak, but the entire time you fought for leaving Kenny and against shooting Jane. Point and case.
Again another feebled attempt to cover yourself with an obviously not applicable statement. Had you been arguing about branching story line then it wouldn't have mattered if leaving Kenny was more realistic because both should have been implemented. (Again, you never mention this with Hugo)
How is pointing out a fact which eats away at your story mocking you? It's like if I were to give facts about why Obama's health care plan is bad, then him saying I am mocking him. Hiding behind this "I was talking about branching story!" argument just doesn't add up.
Why would she want to leave Kenny? Because the fans want it. Prioritizing your choices again?
^^ This is NOT enticing a "Well this is the reason people should want to leave Kenny," rebuttal. I feel I need to explain that.
Prove it? As far as i know, Arvo was just a thief and mugger. He stole from his own group and after he knows about your group, he tries to rob you.
If you are referring to the car crash scene, Jane couldnt do anything inside the car, she had a baby in her arms and 2 walkers were coming at her outside. Alternative would have been to drop the baby and kill the walkers with her knife.
You shouldn't complain. You got a whole season more of him. I personally don't like him so I am happy he is gone.
Because the relationship is relevant to the choice. She doesn't want to take the chance that her uncle could get killed by the mad person who engineered the fight.
A walker attacks Clementine when she just exits the car. They were not passive. It's still very reckless and stupid of Jane to leave a baby in that situation.
Again, Clementine is not a psychopath. It was perfectly rational for Clementine to protect her uncle from the actual psychopath who engineered that fight to the death. The psychopath ends up getting her dumb self killed.
These are 2 seperate conversation, we are talking about choices being nullified in game and with hugo, its another typical Jane vs Kenny talk. Try to focus on this one.
I did mention this to him "Clementine as a character has boundaries in what she is "willing" to do."
And please, focus on this conversation.
You are implying that is a fact... All i wanted was realism and you treat this as biased argument, because i dont consider shooting Jane as realistic behaviour from Clementine.
So how do you expect me to answer this, if you wont allow me to give proper answer? Are you just annoying me on purpose now?
The two statements are not mutually exclusive. Jane's recklessness got the Russians to attack the group. Btw, Arvo was simply leaving the group with his own supplies, but that's not relevant to my argument.
Jane can't think of keeping the baby on the seat while she secures the area around the car?
She knows as much as Kenny knows, so she had no proper reason to shoot her, just as how Kenny didnt have proper reason to try murder Jane.
So you decided to ignore the facts i provided completely? And yes, it was stupid to leave the baby alone, but it wasnt in any greater danger than just being outside in a snowstorm.
Well you do have lousy reading comprehension skills, thats for sure.
So if your friend tries to murder someone else, you go there and help him to murder that person? You are pretty sick, if this is how you would do.
So many baseless assumptions.
Have you not seen the scene before? The walker could almost reach her/the baby and she had to go outside asap and after few seconds, 2 walkers were coming at her.
Clementine doesn't have to be clairvoyant. She suspects Jane of having killed the baby, and she suspects that she did that to get Kenny riled up. She sees that Kenny is unarmed and Jane has a large knife. She doesn't want to take a chance that Kenny might lose the fight, so she shoots Jane. It's very proper.
If my Clementine suspects that a habitually reckless person kills a baby to get her uncle into a fight, she would do what's necessary to not lose her uncle, especially when she sees that the reckless person has a large knife and her uncle is unarmed.