AJ Parable (TV series spoilers!)
Note: It's Long Ass Post again, get some soda or something.
Warning: The following LAP contains spoilers for the AMC's TV Series and TTG's Season 2.
Some of you surely have noticed many similarities between the game and comics/TV series, which can be interpreted in many ways, but it all boils down to the fact that the game it's based on the comics.
For today, we can more or less effortlessly compare to each other Judith Grimes and Alvin Junior better known as AJ or Apple Juice (like father like son).
Writting about baby should begin with the meaning of its symbol, since one of its is the new start. More generally, babies mean new beginnings and a clean slate, a newborn signifies innocence, warmth and a light. Babies symbolize something in your own inner nature that is pure, vulnerable, helpless and uncorrupted. Alternatively, forgetting about a baby represents an aspect of yourself that you have abandoned or put aside due to life's changing circumstances.
- Clementine holding AJ & Rick holding Judith for the first time are both scenes emphasizing the restoration of joy and hope among the lost members of two groups. Clementine is seen smiling as she rocks the baby, which later results her being protective towards the newborn, and further proving their bond. For Rick, Judith is a constant reminder of Lori, he views protecting and caring for her as his main responsibility. He is ecstatic when reunited with her in No Sanctuary, just as Clementine finding AJ in the abandoned car.
Kenny -> Duck -> AJ & Michonne -> Andre -> Judith
Kenny's relationship with AJ is clearly one set up for a father and son, but Kenny's feelings towards the baby are more symbolic if you just take the time to think about it. After losing Sarita, Kenny fell into a deep depression as he wished Carver had killed him, saying he had no real purpose left in life what has changed after birth of AJ. Kenny saw the baby as the future, both figuratively and literally; he believed himself to be the only person able to take care of him.
Michonne had an emotional connection with Judith. Being on her own again for the first time since she met Andrea, Michonne would face unique challenges dealing with a baby - death of Andre devastates her to the point of emotionally shutting down for an extended period of time - holding Judith likely reminds Michonne of her own son.
Kenny and Clementine & Rick and Carl - fury and despair
When Jane arrives at the rest stop, Kenny finds himself without a purpose in life, driven to live only by the will to kill the one who had destroyed his reason to continue. He wanted to be sure AJ was safe, the same as Carl with his baby sister. Both coudn't accept the loss of their loved ones, on which they react with anger.
Clementine appears to be shocked and horrified, which is similar to Rick being devastated when he finds Judith's bloody baby carriage.
The original status - dead
- Let us remember that Judith and AJ are orginally dead and gone. In the comics, Lori lost Judith after she got shot and collapsed on her.
And in S2 game files, AJ was found zombified along with animation of Clementine killing him with a hatchet. Credits to @Megami_Kizukanai. :>
(^ "Dawn of the Dead" if you're curious)
It was cut off, however, what might indicate that the game makers wasn't comfortable with showing the newborn's corpse onscreen, which also refers to the TV series. Keeping the gore as far from the infant as possible could've been a companies directive.
Allrighty, all the similarities for now. Let me move on.
AJ's role in Season 3
Like it has been repeatedly explained, S3 can't start up from a huge timeskip. That means the one thing - AJ's still gonna be a baby or a toddler when/if we'll see him again. He won't get any personality. Clementine won't tell him about his mom and dad. He won't wear Kenny's hat. The list goes on.
Will AJ die?
That's the question many of us have been asking themselves since the final minutes of final episode.
What we all do suspect, keeping the baby safe in ZA word isn't exactly a stroll through the sunny park. A crying would give away our location, it'd be hard for carrying one to keep up on the run, find food for the baby and its keeper himself, sleep without ceasing to be watchful... unless they were in a big and secure location where they can feel completely safe. Multiple endings are nothing but hunch that Wellington won't last long.
I'd like to pick up this - if one taught a toddler that walkers mean danger, wouldn't it increase it chances for survival? Baby animals aren't born knowing how to be quiet, they learn this behavior from the adults. Children imitate adults in practically everything, it only has to happen a couple times before they notice them doing it, then immediately follow an example. Isn't it the same for humans, although we grow much slower, and don't learn as fast, we do learn and figure things out, even as babies. If you pick up a baby every time it cries, it learns very quickly that crying means attention.
I'm saying that a child deserves the same chance as an adult.
It looks like the good-heartedness - or conscience/morality - towards a child is one of the values that hasn't changed in the apocalypse yet. (with a few exceptions, e.g. Carver, the scavengers)
Arvo hesitates when he noticed the baby.
Edith breaks the rules and let two children in the place turning away all the newcomers/gives them an extra supplies.
AJ can't die because of some trivial reasons or someone's sudden whim. It would be a huge waste to reject such an opportunity to develop this potential in any possible way.
Since AJ is practically Judith, TT can follow this path and reflect most of similarities; maintain this in common story keeping up as long as Judith is alive. Or, they can twist it completely by entering something unexpected, just to take on the undiscovered.
Summarizing, Telltale can:
Make AJ a passive, insignificant character
Make AJ an important, symbolic character
Remove AJ from the main plot
Kill AJ
If he must be killed in order to achieve some future goals (like someobody's character development), this option should be wholly determinant to improve "the illusion of choice". To make AJ's death more than a shock value, not to kill him right off the bat.
AJ could be the living hope this world desperately needs.
Will TT really kill a baby? Why they didn't do that at the first place?
Are they following Judith's storyline, and how long will it take before they stop?
Thank you for reading, I'm going to sleep now.
Comments
I got apple juice, fuck your rules!
How dare you!
Best. Meme. Ever
I hope they wont kill Aj because he is a symbol of hope. But they probably will ;-;
I wanted apple juice, not your soda!
I agree with @Poogers555 I believe AJ is a symbol of hope, I want Telltale to keep AJ alive.
Like always, nice post fallandir.
I'm saving this meme.
Bump
I fucking love you and whoever figured that out.
that isn't aj dying that is aj being put down and then clem killing a walker with the hatchet in the alone ending
Holy shit, man! Awesome post!
And btw....
Yes, just yes :'D
I think the group are going to split and the baby will go missing for couple of years, so we can continue to develop Clementine's character. Also, they can have her look for him like lee did for her.
Great topic. I really like it. But I think you are missing one loosed thread which is far more important then Kenny's hat: Carver as possible parent.
What if your Apple Juice (like father, like son) points to Carver instead of Arvin? I know that Season 2 kind of setteled that but this was really because of human hope and need things to be settled then real resolution.
What if Arvin Jr is still heir one of game's main villans?
Then, killing him like baby Judith doesnt make lot a sense but huge time jump will, to show his true character and decide about his parentage for good. This may be something not out of comics or TV show, but among those 20% of original content that autors of game introduced. And then AJ will maybe fit into another char profile, maybe Carl Grimes of latest comics issues when he kills people with no much of a reason. Huge time jump could make AJ to new Carl, age and spirit.
Oh, how could I forget about that. Thanks. :>
But just look at it, it's another similarity between AJ and Judith. Judith's biological father isn't definitely known; it could be either Rick or Shane. Regardless of Judith's real father, Rick told Shane that Lori's baby is his, being that Lori was his wife, which is identical to what Rebecca told Clementine about AJ's real father, who, as we know, could be either Alvin or Carver - not to mention that Mr Lockett (Alvin's VA) revealed that Carver is the father, even though TT wanted to distract us by updating AJ's model to look more like Alvin.
So, we can deal with interesting situation here - Will AJ ever show similar features to Carver, or will this "subconscious nature" change due to Clementine (or someone else) raising him? Another reason why killing AJ off would be nothing but waste of potential.
Thank you, CC. Do you think that Judith-AJ similarity is coincidental, or does TT really imitate her role in order to achieve something?
Im stongly against killing AJ. Thats preciselly why Im for huge time jump. If things stay in current time line everything what has to be told is already told. If we look Carver as Shane, he is already dead. But also baby's mother and other potential father, which kind of kept Judith in life in comics. In game, everyone is dead and baby's parantage is mystery. At the end of Season 2 Clem and baby are spared in all 7 game endings, making AJ as simbol of hope of new beginning. But, he has no real story to be told. Kirkman probably decided to kill Judith because to further arouse mystery about her parentage he would need to do time jump or carry baby and Lori for too many issues just because of that story in some distant future. He obviously decided against both in favour of shocking death of both wife and baby of main protagonist. But all that kind of already happened in game. So, either telltale decided to send baby to next season as symbol of hope just to kill it in 1st episode of next season or it will do that huge time jump. That time jump is only possible way to end mystery of AJ parentage and to make greater sense of Season 2, because Season 3 protagonist will be child of a main villan of Season 2. And IMHO its far better way to give us new despair after giving us hope of new beginning then simply killing baby: everything done in Season 2 resulted that only child of worst possible man survives and be raised by Clem. It has some depth for me.
Without a huge timeskip - I'm 90% sure it won't happen - the problem with AJ parentage is completely negligible, because a newborn doesnt have any personality traits, not counting more or less spontaneous behavior, either calm or energetic nature. It most likely won't be a case in S3.
Only possible way to develop this is to introduce someone who knew Carver and wants to use/take/kill AJ because of the conviction about AJ being Carver's son.
Well, not necessary. The child of murdering psychopath tends to become murdering psychopath itself. Its all in genes, really.
And dont forget that we as player are already someone who knew Carver. There are strong differences between characters of Carver and Alvin. Carver was psychopath, leader, aggressive, violent, murderous. Alvin, on other hand, passive, mild, caring, soft. Players should be able to tell at spot which one of them is real AJ father in case of huge timeskip, no need for outside witnesses. Really, everything writers has to do its to imagine situation where AJ real character will show off and become problematic for storyline.
In other worlds, if Carver is AJ true father and AJ old enough for his character to show AJ will always be big part of every problem. On other hand, if Alvin is AJ true father he will alwasy be part of solution to every problem. Its really easy to make scenarios based on this concept.
Does it really that simple? I think that genes and the environment come together to shape our behavior, both are equally important. Genes capture the evolutionary responses to select our behavior, but environmental flexibility gives us the opportunity to adjust to changes. We acquire qualities during our lives, by watching and learning from others, as well as we gain an ability to separate right from wrong.
Meaning each one of us see and judge him differently, right?
Yes, sure that experiences and environment also influences. But equally? Not sure about it. Experiences cannot make wanders in case of bad genes. Plus, what kind of good experienses you expect in world of walking dead? Remember Clem and what she become. Even Carver was impressed by that result and wanted strongly to turn her on his side because of it.
Anyway, when I talk about this I really have in mind very very dark AJ in Season 3. He is not playable, so you cannot influence his choices. And he always makes bad ones. That's why I said for him to be part of problem as Carver child, not to be part of solution, that would be as Alvin. I think its something that series havent done so far. Yes, Kenny was bad seed of sort, but wasn't truly evil and really really sick. He wasn't villain as Carver. Having sidekick protagonist as villain would be something of a challenge and new.
Interesting post! Another thing that's worth mentioning is something DrNorrington brought up. AJ could possibly be Carver's child, parallel to Judith could be Shane's child in the TWD T.V. show (and I guess the comics, but I never read them). We will never know for sure in both cases, but their will always be that doubt.
Yeah, that happens on the comics too, and it's also interesting to note that Shane and Carver are both antagonists, it's like if they took AJ's story directly from the TV show
That's what I was trying to show you guys. It simply shows one dependence - if they gonna continue this, AJ will be alive in S3.
Continue?
Rebecca, Alvin and Carver died S2. Only AJ left.
In comics, Judith died with Lori. Rick is still alive. And Shane is real hard to describe as Carver type of antagonist. If any kind. He was more participant in love triangle dispute. Made some wrong choices and died for it.
If that will ever be the case, his behaviour should depend on the player's personality created in S2, and how we affect him during the game. Even if he is "evil in heart" we should be able to change, strengthen or overcome it (all determinant), in order to see who he'd become at the end of the game. Because if we're gonna raise him, he will treat us as a a guardian and teacher.
Well, to some extent maybe. But if anything concept of telltale games learned us its that all things are unavoidable and our role to influence things in life very limited. If you save someone he will still die anyway soon. You cannot avoid things to be lost but you can make those loses look more acceptable. In that way you should be able to influence even bad person to change but his bad karma and bad things he done which you didnt have choice to mend will overcome him in a way but he will be able to move on in a better way.
Yes, and this is a sort of improvement I'd like to see in S3. Lee had taught Clementine how to survive, and she did in S3. It'd interesting to see AJ in the similar scenario.
I think no one is born "bad", same as no one's born racist or else. How a newborn can have bad karma? Sure some subconscious thinking will survive inside him whether we want it or not, but we can try our best to guide him until he'll move on his own path.
I believe its coincidental. I think TT wants to give us, the player and Clementine, a real form of hope into the series that the world may possibly be better than what it has given us. AJ is the first step towards a better futrue for the WD universe, instead of the darkness we've constantly been given.
Continue in the sense of TV series storyline. We already know Judith was separated from Rick and Carl and she was taken hostage. If TT takes ideas from such situations, their equivalents may appear in S3.
Well, that's not related in any way to "comic book cannon" which game supposively have to maintain. Its TV show addition. Comics Judith lasted only 10 issues and never held hostage.
Yes, I wanted this thread to be focused on TV show, see the title. It's easier for me to see the resemblance, I haven't read the comics.
This:
Isn't actually what you think. It's the animation for the Alone Ending where Clem sets AJ down before using her hatchet to kill the zombie which she smears herself and the baby with. "Clem Hatchets Zombie Baby" is just a list of what's used in that animation. I'm fairly certain someone modded the game and proved this.
Maybe, but I've never seen or heard about modded version of this. "Clem hatchets zombie baby; chore file" looks pretty clear.
There'd be a video out there somewhere of Clem's 'hatcheting a baby zombie' animation if there was one.
Tt should kill the baby to create the opposite of Judith's fate in TV series. they shouldn't follow this lead, its just embarrasing
Then will be have Judith´s Comic fate , they shouldn't follow this lead, its just embarrasing
i'm just saying they should be more original than that.
Yep, it's definitely just the alone ending animations. It was confirmed not long after episode 5 on the modding community forums.
Alright, I got it, but AJ's original fate is nothing more than interesting, non-canon detail, it really doesn't change much in the general statement. Anyway, thanks for the info.