I'm just going to be blunt, because I have nothing left to lose: I do not get what people see in this series
Like, almost every piece of it just feels stilted and unnatural to me; facial animation that fails to escape the uncanny valley, the voice directors consistently using the worst possible takes (if they even do more than one take, with how unusual like 75% of the dialogue sounds), and various narrative elements feeling either forced or tackled in a weirdly artificial way
It's just so fucking wonky across the board, man. I've seen quite a lot of people get into it, invest in the world and characters and all that, but I don't understand how. For me, the entire presentation of the makes it feel more like it's some surrealist art project, not a serious game trying to tackle serious societal issues
What is this invisible barrier of entry, and why are so many people able to hop over it so easily
If I’m honest almost every “interactive movie choice game” I played that isn’t Telltale at it’s peak were really only fully enjoyable as some sort of cringe comedy that you didn’t take seriously. Life is Strange, David Cage, the Council (didn’t finish it), Until Dawn, those live action things like Late Shift and the Complex (Late Shift was neat though I’d still recommend it), they all have this theme where they paint themselves as some revolutionary innovation in video game storytelling yet I can’t really say that any of them would hold up as genuine movies. I love this style of game, yet the only ones I’d safely say could get high praise as genuine movies and tv is the Telltale trinity of Tales, Wolf and The Walking Dead.
I wish we could get more quality writers into this kind of game. The concept of Life is Strange wasn’t bad, it just needed better dialogue really.
I honestly don’t think Detroit: Become Human was that bad, I actually really enjoy it, but that’s been the only David Cage game I’ve ever played, so I don’t know and can’t say anything about the rest of his work. Didn’t finish The Council either, couldn’t get passed Episode 3.
Life is Strange, at least the first one, is a great game to get drunk to and have a riot at the utter cringe of it, while the second game, while cringy, just wasn’t funny and more infuriating than anything. There were moments, don’t get me wrong, but nothing like the first. But I am of the same mindset really, the premise of these games are really good, even great, and the powers adds even more intrigue. But can we please get some halfway decent writers into this that can actually tell a compelling story.
If I’m honest almost every “interactive movie choice game” I played that isn’t Telltale at it’s peak were really only fully enjoyable as som… moree sort of cringe comedy that you didn’t take seriously. Life is Strange, David Cage, the Council (didn’t finish it), Until Dawn, those live action things like Late Shift and the Complex (Late Shift was neat though I’d still recommend it), they all have this theme where they paint themselves as some revolutionary innovation in video game storytelling yet I can’t really say that any of them would hold up as genuine movies. I love this style of game, yet the only ones I’d safely say could get high praise as genuine movies and tv is the Telltale trinity of Tales, Wolf and The Walking Dead.
I wish we could get more quality writers into this kind of game. The concept of Life is Strange wasn’t bad, it just needed better dialogue really.
I’ve been trying to understand that for the past seven or so years, whenever the first game came out, and honestly, I’m as confused as you.
Everything you described has been criticisms I have given it in the past, amongst others, that I have gone on long diatribes about. This series tries to act a lot smarter than it is, come off as avant-garde or “unique,” but more often than not fails to tell a story in a cohesive and entertaining manner. And more so in the second game, it felt more preoccupied in enforcing a political narrative over any actual story.
My best guess is that it talks about a lot of real life topics that other games don’t tend to portray, that the game, despite it dealing in the realm of the supernatural, is more grounded and real because it “captures” what high school and teen life is about. The struggles they face, the pressure, the attempt to fit in and find ones place in a coming of age story, it’s all very appealing to those who are still at a young age and trying to find their own path and where they fit in with the world. And sure, it does do that, but should it get points for looking into it while failing spectacularly at its execution? It speaks to the demographic that says screw the adults, we are the instigators of change in the world, we are the free spirited and independent thinkers that challenge the status quo and are going to change everything. It’s a game that speaks loudly to those who view themselves as part of the counter-culture.
Without trying to get to political, it feels like the game definitely appeals more to a liberal, left leaning, progressive audience, and those are typically the people that tend to enjoy this series. Meanwhile, me, a more conservative/libertarian leaning person, and a lot of people with the same views, outlooks, and perspectives that I have, lambast this game, while game critics, which lean more on the liberal side, praise it. Obviously there are exceptions, but it’s how I have analyzed the views over the last several years.
It appeals to certain people who have a particular view of the world and how things should be, it speaks to them in a way that other games and mediums haven’t done, to try and sum it up. But again, I don’t get it and it makes no sense. To me, the games come off as shallow, narcissistic, and worst of all, patronizing piles of trash.
There’s an episode of Family Guy where Stewie disguised himself as a high school student as part of a bet that, because teens are so easily manipulated, that he could become the most popular kid in school, a task at which he succeeds by saying and doing just the right things that sucker the people into buying it. Life is Strange feels a lot like that, while also being the show that Stewie was mocking in the beginning of the episode that prompted the bet.
I'm just going to be blunt, because I have nothing left to lose: I do not get what people see in this series
Like, almost every piece of … moreit just feels stilted and unnatural to me; facial animation that fails to escape the uncanny valley, the voice directors consistently using the worst possible takes (if they even do more than one take, with how unusual like 75% of the dialogue sounds), and various narrative elements feeling either forced or tackled in a weirdly artificial way
It's just so fucking wonky across the board, man. I've seen quite a lot of people get into it, invest in the world and characters and all that, but I don't understand how. For me, the entire presentation of the makes it feel more like it's some surrealist art project, not a serious game trying to tackle serious societal issues
What is this invisible barrier of entry, and why are so many people able to hop over it so easily
To me one of the better aspects of both games is the environment building and the atmosphere they manage to capture when you walk around those sections (hubs). There's something about roaming the school of the first game, or the snowy hut in the second, or the junkyard just before Chloe gets shot (the second? third time?) that is incredibly well done. They also constantly reward you for exploring these "hubs" where they'll hide the bulk of the character conversations, especially with side characters, in those sections, and, this especially in the second game, how they successfully incorporate puzzles and decision-making onto the environment in a way that feels organic and not "just a box to tick".
I also need to praise the second game for how it handled choice and consequence especially in regards to the Daniel character (and by extension its endings).
I haven't engaged with the Life is Strange fandom a lot outside of these forums but I'm willing to bet that that community as whole can power through the bad animation and voice direction - which are inarguable shortcomings of the first game - because they find value in what's beyond all that choppy execution. I mean us on these forums ( or at least us twd fans ) should be more than used to the concept of powering through or turning a blind eye to glaring shortcomings of our favourite games, and we do that because despite the recurring non-sensical main character death, or the blatant disregard of choice in that one episode, or the useless pedantic hub, the good we get from the game still far outweighs the bad. Sometimes you relate the subject matter so much, that you're willing to give more weight to writer's intent and the concept of something than you give to what's actually on the screen. And finally, sometimes the good is inflated by feelings of nostalgia or the needing of closure - something LiS didn't have going on for it a lot but still managed to be successful.
And then there's of course the question of genre which is a much boring conversation. The first game is a teen drama, which is obviously not for everyone, just as "zombie game" will not be for everyone. I think any teen drama will always feel to some extent overly dramatic or self-important. It's fine to really not like when a game gives you those vibes, but it's also not something that's arguable or that someone can convince you to stop disliking.
I'm just going to be blunt, because I have nothing left to lose: I do not get what people see in this series
Like, almost every piece of … moreit just feels stilted and unnatural to me; facial animation that fails to escape the uncanny valley, the voice directors consistently using the worst possible takes (if they even do more than one take, with how unusual like 75% of the dialogue sounds), and various narrative elements feeling either forced or tackled in a weirdly artificial way
It's just so fucking wonky across the board, man. I've seen quite a lot of people get into it, invest in the world and characters and all that, but I don't understand how. For me, the entire presentation of the makes it feel more like it's some surrealist art project, not a serious game trying to tackle serious societal issues
What is this invisible barrier of entry, and why are so many people able to hop over it so easily
Def agree with the hubs and endings (for lis2 at least) are much better than Telltale’s.
I hope hubs in Wolf 2 are a lot more like LIS where the hub is a pretty large area filled with content. It sucks Telltale kinda just gave up on them. Tales was the last one where there was more to actually do in a hub area but they weren’t as expansive as LIS. Then TFS tried to replicate the LIS style but it still felt pretty lacking after episode 1.
Also as I’m sure a lot of people know but TFS handling of AJ was really annoying. Marketing the game like AJ is actually going to change and learn from you lmao. LIS2 Daniel actually does learn from you and makes his own choices from those experiences, something that can not be seen in TFS. I mean apparently it was because creative team thought people would just choose the “good ending” because I guess no one knew how to make multiple endings all with pros and cons? LIS2 has multiple endings and some can probably be considered better than others, but none can be defined as the best and all feel thematically appropriate based on how you played.
I would honestly very easily say LIS2 is a lot better than the 2017+ Telltale games
To me one of the better aspects of both games is the environment building and the atmosphere they manage to capture when you walk around tho… morese sections (hubs). There's something about roaming the school of the first game, or the snowy hut in the second, or the junkyard just before Chloe gets shot (the second? third time?) that is incredibly well done. They also constantly reward you for exploring these "hubs" where they'll hide the bulk of the character conversations, especially with side characters, in those sections, and, this especially in the second game, how they successfully incorporate puzzles and decision-making onto the environment in a way that feels organic and not "just a box to tick".
I also need to praise the second game for how it handled choice and consequence especially in regards to the Daniel character (and by extension its endings).
I haven't engaged with the Life is Strange fandom a lot outside of these forums but I'm… [view original content]
I was being rhetorical, but I appreciate your explanation nevertheless
oh yeah, and I should probably clarify that I still don't hate the LiS series, nor do I have anything against the people that like it. Unfortunately, it winds up being the antithesis of just about everything I want/look for in a story-based game. I can agree with hubs and the free-roam segments being handled better than Telltale, though. It's just a shame that I can't even appreciate that as much as I could, due to a lack of investment in the game's world/characters/etc to begin with
I wish I liked more games and stories that other people liked, because I feel like almost all my tastes are weirdly contrarian
To me one of the better aspects of both games is the environment building and the atmosphere they manage to capture when you walk around tho… morese sections (hubs). There's something about roaming the school of the first game, or the snowy hut in the second, or the junkyard just before Chloe gets shot (the second? third time?) that is incredibly well done. They also constantly reward you for exploring these "hubs" where they'll hide the bulk of the character conversations, especially with side characters, in those sections, and, this especially in the second game, how they successfully incorporate puzzles and decision-making onto the environment in a way that feels organic and not "just a box to tick".
I also need to praise the second game for how it handled choice and consequence especially in regards to the Daniel character (and by extension its endings).
I haven't engaged with the Life is Strange fandom a lot outside of these forums but I'm… [view original content]
I don't think this instance is that contrarian, you'll see a pretty healthy mix of those who enjoy Life is Strange and those who do not. Personally I fall into the "Man, I wish this shit had better fucking writers" camp. This series has everything it needs except good writing.
I was being rhetorical, but I appreciate your explanation nevertheless
oh yeah, and I should probably clarify that I still don't hate the… more LiS series, nor do I have anything against the people that like it. Unfortunately, it winds up being the antithesis of just about everything I want/look for in a story-based game. I can agree with hubs and the free-roam segments being handled better than Telltale, though. It's just a shame that I can't even appreciate that as much as I could, due to a lack of investment in the game's world/characters/etc to begin with
I wish I liked more games and stories that other people liked, because I feel like almost all my tastes are weirdly contrarian
Thinking about it more, I’ve been reminded of one of the biggest reasons why this series bugs me and why it doesn’t entice me that it does for other people. Sure, the hub areas and exploration are good, choices carry some extra weight than certain Telltale games, and for those reasons, some can overlook the dialogue and stilted animation. But for me, the one thing I can’t get over, and it’s one of the pivotal focuses of the first game and Before the Storm, is the outright toxic, manipulative, and even abusive friendships between its main characters.
Between Chloe and Max in the first game, to Rachel and Chloe in BtS, to see what should be an obviously unhealthy and destructive relationship be portrayed as compassionate, supportive, loving, and sympathetic, its one of the most insulting and damning things I have ever seen put in a game. And people eat it up, people say how close they are and hold them as gold standards for their portrayals. It’s not, it’s outright toxic and does nothing but drag all of the parties involved down further. It’s far more apparent in the first game, hell, there’s even a scene where a dream Max has to explain it to everyone (which for some reason the dream Max is portrayed as evil and of the wrong opinion), but make no mistake, it’s present in both games. When I’ve seen several people recount or talk about how seeing these relationships portrayed in these games made them realize and get out of the toxic relationships they were in because of it, it’s the only good thing I can think of that has come out, but it was done completely unintentionally, so they get no credit in doing so.
This series has won awards for its writing. No, absolutely fucking no, the writing is painful at its worst, laughable at its best. If the game was trying to intentionally show it as toxic, then it wouldn’t be as bad. But they’re not, so the fact that it comes across the way that it does, makes it so much more insulting.
It’s far more apparent in the first game, hell, there’s even a scene where a dream Max has to explain it to everyone (which for some reason the dream Max is portrayed as evil and of the wrong opinion)
Nightmare Max is wrong. Let's break it down.
“Because you let her bully you. It's called "Stockholm Syndrome." But you didn't do that homework... so you'll have to learn the hard way. Like Rachel...”
Chloe doesn't bully Max. There's never a point where Chloe really does anything like that at all. The closest is Kate's call in episode two, but even then it's something she not only apologizes for but we know it's because Max already made plans with Chloe and Chloe takes it as Max trying to bail out on her.
Stockholm Syndrome is used in victim-perpetrator situations. We're talking man forcibly kidnaps woman who falls for him. In this case we have Max and Chloe, childhood friends spending the better part of four days together after literally five years of no contact.
“Chloe trapped you with her drama. Guns, drugs, Rachel... Even stealing money from the handicapped fund. She's just using you, dude.”
Chloe didn't trap Max in any drama. Chloe didn't choose to get drugged, kidnapped, and shot in a bathroom. Chloe didn't choose to get a knife held at her neck in a junkyard. Max is the one who kickstarts the whole investigation in the end. From the very first episode, it's Max's nosiness trying to solve the mystery of Rachel. Chloe is just putting up posters, and that's the extent of what she's doing.
After Max collapses in episode two in the junkyard, Chloe makes it clear she won't ever make Max use her powers if Max doesn't want to. As for the money, that's one thing that I feel teeters on being given false information into making a shitty decision. The entire scene in the office makes it seem like the money isn't for any sort of handicapped fund, but rather is the money Wells is received from Sean Prescott to keep quiet about Nathan's behavior. It's in a fucking envelope for christ sake. Why is any money for a highly prestigious school just sitting in an envelope in a desk? But then the game is like "WOOPS YEAH IT WAS HAHA" even after making you see that the paralyzed Chloe was kicked out because of her disability.
“I'd be more worried about Chloe killing us than Jefferson...”
This is just stupid. Max chose time and time again, of her own free will, to keep on saving Chloe. It's basically an attempt at trying to connect saving Chloe to the storm. Saving Chloe will kill you, so just let her die. Chloe never forced Max to do anything for her.
“Max, do you really think she has any feelings for us? You're just another puppet...”
Chloe does have feelings for Max. That's literally the point of the game. The earlier sequence in the nightmare literally proves that one of Max's greatest fears is never being seen as a potential romantic interest for Chloe, thus why she sees everyone she knows in romantic situations with Chloe while they mock Max.
What is Nightmare Max? She's meant to be a horribly distorted version of the part of your brain that questions any decision you make. Or possibly even just an asshole visualization of whatever gave Max her powers in the first place, being all of Max's worst fears, anxieties, and worst traits real, attempting to place all the blame on Chloe for everything. Max's choosing Chloe helps to break through this barrier that exists: that Chloe is somehow at fault for literally just existing. It's Max denying whatever is saying that Chloe needs to be the sacrificial lamb for the storm.
It's why the next scene in the damn sequence is memory lane. To show that Chloe is NOT what Nightmare Max claims she is. Nightmare Max says Chloe is a horribly toxic abuser who cares nothing for Max, while Max's memories show what actually happened. Max and Chloe together. Chloe has her negative traits, but so does everyone. Max's negative traits are heightened by Nightmare Max's very existence. Nightmare Max is twisted and cares nothing for Chloe at all.
She lashes out when Kate, someone who is, as we see later, dealing with suicidal thoughts, and currently facing depression and abandonment from everyone around her, including her church and family, calls Max. Then, after the call, proceeds to make Max feel bad about doing so.
She guilt trips Max for not taking the blame for the weed, when Chloe was the one who told her to stay hidden away in the closet so David doesn’t get mad at her.
She forces Max to use and abuse her time powers despite knowing and seeing the health affects its having on her, including nose bleeds and passing out.
She berates Max, as well as others including her own dad, for why her life is so shitty.
She tries to convince and manipulate Max into stealing money, directly from the school’s handicap fund, to pay off her debts with Frank and cover her own reckless bad habits.
Despite saving her life several times in the span of a couple of days, Chloe can say how Max has, once again, let her down, and continually acts ungrateful towards everything Max has done for her.
Despite knowing Max has the ability to time travel, it takes an incredible amount of convincing for Chloe to even believe her when she goes back in time to right before the Vortex Club party to tell her that it was Jefferson, not Nathan.
All of this culminates in how Max acts, supports, and outright enables Chloe throughout the whole game, to the point where she is Chloe’s puppet and goes along with whatever she wants to do. Have a mountain of evidence against someone , including a dead body, screw going to the police, let’s just kill a guy. And don’t give me the “fuck the police” and “Prescott’s own the town” excuses, with that much evidence, there’s not enough money that can bribe their way out of it.
Even at one point, in one of her journal entries, Max contemplates whether or not she and Chloe would be friends if it wasn’t for her having the time powers, that all Chloe wants to see is her rewind time, and nothing else. She admits she has to walk on eggshells just to appease Chloe and not get on her bad side. If you have a best friend that is that temperamental, that can get set off that easily, just by talking about her and trying to help her, and only hangs out with you to get something out of it, then that’s not healthy, and your best option is to leave that friendship.
The entire friendship they have in the game is entirely based on nostalgia for what they had before, not what they have now. It’s constantly alluded to, but rarely ever seen, which doesn’t make it believable. So without anything to go off of, all we can do is judge their relationship in the present day, and from what I see, there’s nothing to support a healthy and supportive friendship, let alone romantic relationship.
Look, I’m not trying to argue, it’s a matter of interpretation. I see it as toxic and abusive, a view that many agree with and have reasoning for doing so based on evidence in the game. You see it as caring and supportive, a view that many agree with and have reasoning for doing so based on evidence in the game. Do I agree with this view, no, not at all, but if you see it that way, then that’s fine.
It’s far more apparent in the first game, hell, there’s even a scene where a dream Max has to explain it to everyone (which for some reason … morethe dream Max is portrayed as evil and of the wrong opinion)
Nightmare Max is wrong. Let's break it down.
“Because you let her bully you. It's called "Stockholm Syndrome." But you didn't do that homework... so you'll have to learn the hard way. Like Rachel...”
Chloe doesn't bully Max. There's never a point where Chloe really does anything like that at all. The closest is Kate's call in episode two, but even then it's something she not only apologizes for but we know it's because Max already made plans with Chloe and Chloe takes it as Max trying to bail out on her.
Stockholm Syndrome is used in victim-perpetrator situations. We're talking man forcibly kidnaps woman who falls for him. In this case we have Max and Chloe, childhood friends spending the better part of four days togethe… [view original content]
So we got a lot of cool stuff here,the full game is coming out on September 10,one of the best characters from Before the Storm is back too (Steph) and there's gonna be a remaster for the first two games.
There it is,the game looks gorgeous.
So we got a lot of cool stuff here,the full game is coming out on September 10,one of the best characters from Before the Storm is back too (Steph) and there's gonna be a remaster for the first two games.
I did not know that the forums were still up holy shit! I remember when LIS 1 first came out and I got so hyped on these forums. Now its been 5 years and they are still going. I'm gonna cry.
I'll def check it out when it releases but honestly I didn't really get LIS vibes, which may be good or bad based on whoever you ask. I kind of got Tell Me Why vibes which I would personally say is a negative because I felt that game had really poor story telling, but they didn't reveal that much about the story and the actual "murder" plot is happening in the present rather than 10 years later with little to no agency to actually solve it. (And plus different studio so I'd be pretty surprised if they somehow made the same mistakes.)
Anyway, I'll still check it out even though I don't think it really felt "Life is Strange-y" because why not. Might as well play it, could easily be pleasantly surprised.
Would've been cool to actually see the Remasters though as I was pretty curious in what type of animation was fixed up.
The cover art and style for True Colors looks pretty sweet. Not sure what else to say about it, but it looks promising. Another small-town, mystery adventure. I don't remember Steph too well from BtS. Hm.
Dunno why the first two games need a remaster. They had a certain visual style to them. Maybe I'll change my tune when I see how 'remastered' they make it, but I don't feel like it needs one. It only came out last-gen! (Though the lip-synching definitely needed improvement. It was just flapping mouths last I remember. Did they fix that in LIS2?)
There it is,the game looks gorgeous.
So we got a lot of cool stuff here,the full game is coming out on September 10,one of the best characters from Before the Storm is back too (Steph) and there's gonna be a remaster for the first two games.
There it is,the game looks gorgeous.
So we got a lot of cool stuff here,the full game is coming out on September 10,one of the best characters from Before the Storm is back too (Steph) and there's gonna be a remaster for the first two games.
Doesnt seem so, they said at the end that there will be no waiting, it will all come out at once. (But it seems it will still be episodic as they mention there are chapters that can be used as break points, so episodes you can binge.)
I'll def check it out when it releases but honestly I didn't really get LIS vibes, which may be good or bad based on whoever you ask. I kind… more of got Tell Me Why vibes which I would personally say is a negative because I felt that game had really poor story telling, but they didn't reveal that much about the story and the actual "murder" plot is happening in the present rather than 10 years later with little to no agency to actually solve it. (And plus different studio so I'd be pretty surprised if they somehow made the same mistakes.)
Anyway, I'll still check it out even though I don't think it really felt "Life is Strange-y" because why not. Might as well play it, could easily be pleasantly surprised.
Would've been cool to actually see the Remasters though as I was pretty curious in what type of animation was fixed up.
I am SO INTO EVERYTHING about this. A 5 episode (hopefully broken down into episodes) Deck Nine game? YES PLEASE. I am so excited to see what they can do with a longer script. I only wish it was released monthly I bet 'episode 1' is pretty close to being wrapped up if its launching in September complete + bonus episode.
Doesnt seem so, they said at the end that there will be no waiting, it will all come out at once. (But it seems it will still be episodic as they mention there are chapters that can be used as break points, so episodes you can binge.)
There it is,the game looks gorgeous.
So we got a lot of cool stuff here,the full game is coming out on September 10,one of the best characters from Before the Storm is back too (Steph) and there's gonna be a remaster for the first two games.
Is it just me, or does the main protagonist sound like she's voiced by the same person that did Eleanor in ANF
I mean I'm not confident enough to put money on it, but I swear the actress sounds incredibly familiar
Most likely a case of Square wanting a new LIS game but Dontnod not wanting to do another anytime soon, so they took the license and gave it to deck nine who were already working on True Colors when DN were working out LIS2.
Exclusive Bonus Story: ‘Wavelengths’: play as Steph in the year before Alex came to Haven Springs, in a standalone story set in the iconic Rocky Mountain Record Traders store and KRCT radio station.
Comments
I got bored of S2 after episode 1 but maybe this one will make me cringe laugh all the way to the end ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Only reason I keep any legitimate interest in this series.
I'm just going to be blunt, because I have nothing left to lose: I do not get what people see in this series
Like, almost every piece of it just feels stilted and unnatural to me; facial animation that fails to escape the uncanny valley, the voice directors consistently using the worst possible takes (if they even do more than one take, with how unusual like 75% of the dialogue sounds), and various narrative elements feeling either forced or tackled in a weirdly artificial way
It's just so fucking wonky across the board, man. I've seen quite a lot of people get into it, invest in the world and characters and all that, but I don't understand how. For me, the entire presentation of the makes it feel more like it's some surrealist art project, not a serious game trying to tackle serious societal issues
What is this invisible barrier of entry, and why are so many people able to hop over it so easily
If I’m honest almost every “interactive movie choice game” I played that isn’t Telltale at it’s peak were really only fully enjoyable as some sort of cringe comedy that you didn’t take seriously. Life is Strange, David Cage, the Council (didn’t finish it), Until Dawn, those live action things like Late Shift and the Complex (Late Shift was neat though I’d still recommend it), they all have this theme where they paint themselves as some revolutionary innovation in video game storytelling yet I can’t really say that any of them would hold up as genuine movies. I love this style of game, yet the only ones I’d safely say could get high praise as genuine movies and tv is the Telltale trinity of Tales, Wolf and The Walking Dead.
I wish we could get more quality writers into this kind of game. The concept of Life is Strange wasn’t bad, it just needed better dialogue really.
I honestly don’t think Detroit: Become Human was that bad, I actually really enjoy it, but that’s been the only David Cage game I’ve ever played, so I don’t know and can’t say anything about the rest of his work. Didn’t finish The Council either, couldn’t get passed Episode 3.
Life is Strange, at least the first one, is a great game to get drunk to and have a riot at the utter cringe of it, while the second game, while cringy, just wasn’t funny and more infuriating than anything. There were moments, don’t get me wrong, but nothing like the first. But I am of the same mindset really, the premise of these games are really good, even great, and the powers adds even more intrigue. But can we please get some halfway decent writers into this that can actually tell a compelling story.
I’ve been trying to understand that for the past seven or so years, whenever the first game came out, and honestly, I’m as confused as you.
Everything you described has been criticisms I have given it in the past, amongst others, that I have gone on long diatribes about. This series tries to act a lot smarter than it is, come off as avant-garde or “unique,” but more often than not fails to tell a story in a cohesive and entertaining manner. And more so in the second game, it felt more preoccupied in enforcing a political narrative over any actual story.
My best guess is that it talks about a lot of real life topics that other games don’t tend to portray, that the game, despite it dealing in the realm of the supernatural, is more grounded and real because it “captures” what high school and teen life is about. The struggles they face, the pressure, the attempt to fit in and find ones place in a coming of age story, it’s all very appealing to those who are still at a young age and trying to find their own path and where they fit in with the world. And sure, it does do that, but should it get points for looking into it while failing spectacularly at its execution? It speaks to the demographic that says screw the adults, we are the instigators of change in the world, we are the free spirited and independent thinkers that challenge the status quo and are going to change everything. It’s a game that speaks loudly to those who view themselves as part of the counter-culture.
Without trying to get to political, it feels like the game definitely appeals more to a liberal, left leaning, progressive audience, and those are typically the people that tend to enjoy this series. Meanwhile, me, a more conservative/libertarian leaning person, and a lot of people with the same views, outlooks, and perspectives that I have, lambast this game, while game critics, which lean more on the liberal side, praise it. Obviously there are exceptions, but it’s how I have analyzed the views over the last several years.
It appeals to certain people who have a particular view of the world and how things should be, it speaks to them in a way that other games and mediums haven’t done, to try and sum it up. But again, I don’t get it and it makes no sense. To me, the games come off as shallow, narcissistic, and worst of all, patronizing piles of trash.
There’s an episode of Family Guy where Stewie disguised himself as a high school student as part of a bet that, because teens are so easily manipulated, that he could become the most popular kid in school, a task at which he succeeds by saying and doing just the right things that sucker the people into buying it. Life is Strange feels a lot like that, while also being the show that Stewie was mocking in the beginning of the episode that prompted the bet.
To me one of the better aspects of both games is the environment building and the atmosphere they manage to capture when you walk around those sections (hubs). There's something about roaming the school of the first game, or the snowy hut in the second, or the junkyard just before Chloe gets shot (the second? third time?) that is incredibly well done. They also constantly reward you for exploring these "hubs" where they'll hide the bulk of the character conversations, especially with side characters, in those sections, and, this especially in the second game, how they successfully incorporate puzzles and decision-making onto the environment in a way that feels organic and not "just a box to tick".
I also need to praise the second game for how it handled choice and consequence especially in regards to the Daniel character (and by extension its endings).
I haven't engaged with the Life is Strange fandom a lot outside of these forums but I'm willing to bet that that community as whole can power through the bad animation and voice direction - which are inarguable shortcomings of the first game - because they find value in what's beyond all that choppy execution. I mean us on these forums ( or at least us twd fans
) should be more than used to the concept of powering through or turning a blind eye to glaring shortcomings of our favourite games, and we do that because despite the recurring non-sensical main character death, or the blatant disregard of choice in that one episode, or the useless pedantic hub, the good we get from the game still far outweighs the bad. Sometimes you relate the subject matter so much, that you're willing to give more weight to writer's intent and the concept of something than you give to what's actually on the screen. And finally, sometimes the good is inflated by feelings of nostalgia or the needing of closure - something LiS didn't have going on for it a lot but still managed to be successful.
And then there's of course the question of genre which is a much boring conversation. The first game is a teen drama, which is obviously not for everyone, just as "zombie game" will not be for everyone. I think any teen drama will always feel to some extent overly dramatic or self-important. It's fine to really not like when a game gives you those vibes, but it's also not something that's arguable or that someone can convince you to stop disliking.
Damn it's exciting, well not as exciting as original cast being in the plot but still!
Def agree with the hubs and endings (for lis2 at least) are much better than Telltale’s.
I hope hubs in Wolf 2 are a lot more like LIS where the hub is a pretty large area filled with content. It sucks Telltale kinda just gave up on them. Tales was the last one where there was more to actually do in a hub area but they weren’t as expansive as LIS. Then TFS tried to replicate the LIS style but it still felt pretty lacking after episode 1.
Also as I’m sure a lot of people know but TFS handling of AJ was really annoying. Marketing the game like AJ is actually going to change and learn from you lmao. LIS2 Daniel actually does learn from you and makes his own choices from those experiences, something that can not be seen in TFS. I mean apparently it was because creative team thought people would just choose the “good ending” because I guess no one knew how to make multiple endings all with pros and cons? LIS2 has multiple endings and some can probably be considered better than others, but none can be defined as the best and all feel thematically appropriate based on how you played.
I would honestly very easily say LIS2 is a lot better than the 2017+ Telltale games
I was being rhetorical, but I appreciate your explanation nevertheless
oh yeah, and I should probably clarify that I still don't hate the LiS series, nor do I have anything against the people that like it. Unfortunately, it winds up being the antithesis of just about everything I want/look for in a story-based game. I can agree with hubs and the free-roam segments being handled better than Telltale, though. It's just a shame that I can't even appreciate that as much as I could, due to a lack of investment in the game's world/characters/etc to begin with
I wish I liked more games and stories that other people liked, because I feel like almost all my tastes are weirdly contrarian
I don't think this instance is that contrarian, you'll see a pretty healthy mix of those who enjoy Life is Strange and those who do not. Personally I fall into the "Man, I wish this shit had better fucking writers" camp. This series has everything it needs except good writing.
Thinking about it more, I’ve been reminded of one of the biggest reasons why this series bugs me and why it doesn’t entice me that it does for other people. Sure, the hub areas and exploration are good, choices carry some extra weight than certain Telltale games, and for those reasons, some can overlook the dialogue and stilted animation. But for me, the one thing I can’t get over, and it’s one of the pivotal focuses of the first game and Before the Storm, is the outright toxic, manipulative, and even abusive friendships between its main characters.
Between Chloe and Max in the first game, to Rachel and Chloe in BtS, to see what should be an obviously unhealthy and destructive relationship be portrayed as compassionate, supportive, loving, and sympathetic, its one of the most insulting and damning things I have ever seen put in a game. And people eat it up, people say how close they are and hold them as gold standards for their portrayals. It’s not, it’s outright toxic and does nothing but drag all of the parties involved down further. It’s far more apparent in the first game, hell, there’s even a scene where a dream Max has to explain it to everyone (which for some reason the dream Max is portrayed as evil and of the wrong opinion), but make no mistake, it’s present in both games. When I’ve seen several people recount or talk about how seeing these relationships portrayed in these games made them realize and get out of the toxic relationships they were in because of it, it’s the only good thing I can think of that has come out, but it was done completely unintentionally, so they get no credit in doing so.
This series has won awards for its writing. No, absolutely fucking no, the writing is painful at its worst, laughable at its best. If the game was trying to intentionally show it as toxic, then it wouldn’t be as bad. But they’re not, so the fact that it comes across the way that it does, makes it so much more insulting.
Nightmare Max is wrong. Let's break it down.
Chloe doesn't bully Max. There's never a point where Chloe really does anything like that at all. The closest is Kate's call in episode two, but even then it's something she not only apologizes for but we know it's because Max already made plans with Chloe and Chloe takes it as Max trying to bail out on her.
Stockholm Syndrome is used in victim-perpetrator situations. We're talking man forcibly kidnaps woman who falls for him. In this case we have Max and Chloe, childhood friends spending the better part of four days together after literally five years of no contact.
Chloe didn't trap Max in any drama. Chloe didn't choose to get drugged, kidnapped, and shot in a bathroom. Chloe didn't choose to get a knife held at her neck in a junkyard. Max is the one who kickstarts the whole investigation in the end. From the very first episode, it's Max's nosiness trying to solve the mystery of Rachel. Chloe is just putting up posters, and that's the extent of what she's doing.
After Max collapses in episode two in the junkyard, Chloe makes it clear she won't ever make Max use her powers if Max doesn't want to. As for the money, that's one thing that I feel teeters on being given false information into making a shitty decision. The entire scene in the office makes it seem like the money isn't for any sort of handicapped fund, but rather is the money Wells is received from Sean Prescott to keep quiet about Nathan's behavior. It's in a fucking envelope for christ sake. Why is any money for a highly prestigious school just sitting in an envelope in a desk? But then the game is like "WOOPS YEAH IT WAS HAHA" even after making you see that the paralyzed Chloe was kicked out because of her disability.
This is just stupid. Max chose time and time again, of her own free will, to keep on saving Chloe. It's basically an attempt at trying to connect saving Chloe to the storm. Saving Chloe will kill you, so just let her die. Chloe never forced Max to do anything for her.
Chloe does have feelings for Max. That's literally the point of the game. The earlier sequence in the nightmare literally proves that one of Max's greatest fears is never being seen as a potential romantic interest for Chloe, thus why she sees everyone she knows in romantic situations with Chloe while they mock Max.
What is Nightmare Max? She's meant to be a horribly distorted version of the part of your brain that questions any decision you make. Or possibly even just an asshole visualization of whatever gave Max her powers in the first place, being all of Max's worst fears, anxieties, and worst traits real, attempting to place all the blame on Chloe for everything. Max's choosing Chloe helps to break through this barrier that exists: that Chloe is somehow at fault for literally just existing. It's Max denying whatever is saying that Chloe needs to be the sacrificial lamb for the storm.
It's why the next scene in the damn sequence is memory lane. To show that Chloe is NOT what Nightmare Max claims she is. Nightmare Max says Chloe is a horribly toxic abuser who cares nothing for Max, while Max's memories show what actually happened. Max and Chloe together. Chloe has her negative traits, but so does everyone. Max's negative traits are heightened by Nightmare Max's very existence. Nightmare Max is twisted and cares nothing for Chloe at all.
I remember someone likening Chloe to Kenny. That seems fairly appropriate.
She lashes out when Kate, someone who is, as we see later, dealing with suicidal thoughts, and currently facing depression and abandonment from everyone around her, including her church and family, calls Max. Then, after the call, proceeds to make Max feel bad about doing so.
She guilt trips Max for not taking the blame for the weed, when Chloe was the one who told her to stay hidden away in the closet so David doesn’t get mad at her.
She forces Max to use and abuse her time powers despite knowing and seeing the health affects its having on her, including nose bleeds and passing out.
She berates Max, as well as others including her own dad, for why her life is so shitty.
She tries to convince and manipulate Max into stealing money, directly from the school’s handicap fund, to pay off her debts with Frank and cover her own reckless bad habits.
Despite saving her life several times in the span of a couple of days, Chloe can say how Max has, once again, let her down, and continually acts ungrateful towards everything Max has done for her.
Despite knowing Max has the ability to time travel, it takes an incredible amount of convincing for Chloe to even believe her when she goes back in time to right before the Vortex Club party to tell her that it was Jefferson, not Nathan.
All of this culminates in how Max acts, supports, and outright enables Chloe throughout the whole game, to the point where she is Chloe’s puppet and goes along with whatever she wants to do. Have a mountain of evidence against someone , including a dead body, screw going to the police, let’s just kill a guy. And don’t give me the “fuck the police” and “Prescott’s own the town” excuses, with that much evidence, there’s not enough money that can bribe their way out of it.
Even at one point, in one of her journal entries, Max contemplates whether or not she and Chloe would be friends if it wasn’t for her having the time powers, that all Chloe wants to see is her rewind time, and nothing else. She admits she has to walk on eggshells just to appease Chloe and not get on her bad side. If you have a best friend that is that temperamental, that can get set off that easily, just by talking about her and trying to help her, and only hangs out with you to get something out of it, then that’s not healthy, and your best option is to leave that friendship.
The entire friendship they have in the game is entirely based on nostalgia for what they had before, not what they have now. It’s constantly alluded to, but rarely ever seen, which doesn’t make it believable. So without anything to go off of, all we can do is judge their relationship in the present day, and from what I see, there’s nothing to support a healthy and supportive friendship, let alone romantic relationship.
Look, I’m not trying to argue, it’s a matter of interpretation. I see it as toxic and abusive, a view that many agree with and have reasoning for doing so based on evidence in the game. You see it as caring and supportive, a view that many agree with and have reasoning for doing so based on evidence in the game. Do I agree with this view, no, not at all, but if you see it that way, then that’s fine.
Yeah, pretty much. It's a scarily accurate comparison.
There it is,the game looks gorgeous.
So we got a lot of cool stuff here,the full game is coming out on September 10,one of the best characters from Before the Storm is back too (Steph) and there's gonna be a remaster for the first two games.
Looks good, the leaks were correct, and I won't lie, I always enjoy a small town vibe. I really hope I end up liking this one for once.
I did not know that the forums were still up holy shit! I remember when LIS 1 first came out and I got so hyped on these forums. Now its been 5 years and they are still going. I'm gonna cry.
I'll def check it out when it releases but honestly I didn't really get LIS vibes, which may be good or bad based on whoever you ask. I kind of got Tell Me Why vibes which I would personally say is a negative because I felt that game had really poor story telling, but they didn't reveal that much about the story and the actual "murder" plot is happening in the present rather than 10 years later with little to no agency to actually solve it. (And plus different studio so I'd be pretty surprised if they somehow made the same mistakes.)
Anyway, I'll still check it out even though I don't think it really felt "Life is Strange-y" because why not. Might as well play it, could easily be pleasantly surprised.
Would've been cool to actually see the Remasters though as I was pretty curious in what type of animation was fixed up.
That was great, especially the first two remastered games. I hope we also get TWAU 2 reveal soon this year.
The cover art and style for True Colors looks pretty sweet. Not sure what else to say about it, but it looks promising. Another small-town, mystery adventure. I don't remember Steph too well from BtS. Hm.
Dunno why the first two games need a remaster. They had a certain visual style to them. Maybe I'll change my tune when I see how 'remastered' they make it, but I don't feel like it needs one. It only came out last-gen! (Though the lip-synching definitely needed improvement. It was just flapping mouths last I remember. Did they fix that in LIS2?)
I wonder if they'll do weekly episodes with this one.
Doesnt seem so, they said at the end that there will be no waiting, it will all come out at once. (But it seems it will still be episodic as they mention there are chapters that can be used as break points, so episodes you can binge.)
There's 2 pictures of the Remaster for both games on Steam
Gives us a little idea of what it'll look like already.
And for those who buy the Deluxe Edition they'll get a bonus chapter playing as Steph before Alex comes into the town so that's pretty nice too.
I am SO INTO EVERYTHING about this. A 5 episode (hopefully broken down into episodes) Deck Nine game? YES PLEASE. I am so excited to see what they can do with a longer script. I only wish it was released monthly I bet 'episode 1' is pretty close to being wrapped up if its launching in September complete + bonus episode.
That's kinda disappointing. Watching theory videos in between episodes was so much fun when the first game was rolling out.
oof big Tell Me Why energy here.. and that's not good
Is it just me, or does the main protagonist sound like she's voiced by the same person that did Eleanor in ANF
I mean I'm not confident enough to put money on it, but I swear the actress sounds incredibly familiar
No the person voicing Alex is Erika Mori,Eleanor was voiced by Kelley Crowder.
Huh, okay then
In that case, let me fall back on my second thought about that reveal trailer: oh god why is Deck Nine doing this one oh no
Dontnod left for good.
Most likely a case of Square wanting a new LIS game but Dontnod not wanting to do another anytime soon, so they took the license and gave it to deck nine who were already working on True Colors when DN were working out LIS2.
SCREENSHOTS
Is that Steph from BtS?
Yes
Huh. That's kinda cool, seeing how she was one of the more well implemented characters in that prequel.
Steph's also getting her own bonus story (much like the Max and Chloe one from BTS) if you get the deluxe edition, apparently. Though it seems like it'll be more extensive than that one was.
https://store.steampowered.com/app/1571390/Life_is_Strange_True_Colors__Deluxe_Upgrade/
I wonder if they’ll mix emotions. Like that woman crying is apparently angry but also sad. Would that make purpl?
Also calling some pink ass cloud shit once the inevitable steph romance scene happens