Anything could have been interesting if it had been developed more, it's the biggest curse in Season 2.
Specific characters such as Alvin, Carlos, Reggie and Sarita were indcredibly underdeveloped.
Carver's Camp was very one dimensional too
And we almost had no interaction with the Russians besides shooting at them.
The bad part about them being foreigners is that it came out of no where, that is why it feels forced. If it had been forshadowed that they might be in the area then it would have worked fine. It could be as simple as overhearing Carver's people mentioning run-ins with this Russian rogue group.
But otherwise, yes I do agree. Russians are used a lot, especially by American media (unsurpsisingly) as villains. Also having exclusively native American and black groups would appear racist to some of the more touchy audiences..
Why not a group of chinese tourists?
Why are there no tourists in TWD? Surely they can't all be dead. They have very good reaction skills and everything they need to survive in their belt packs, including travel socks and plastic raincoats.
Perhaps the Russians are re-use assets that Telltale just didn't want to let go
that sounds very plausible considering there wasn't as much heart and thoughtfulness in S2...
First, I want to say I have no problems with any race, culture, sexual preference etc..
That being said,
I would be more opposed to worrying about 'sensitivity' in a game made in an apocalyptic setting. It would take away from the realism.
I'm not saying I want blatant raceism or very derogatory comment's made, but if their were, it wouldn't bother me because in the world of a zombie apocalypse, it would happen, a lot. What if rather than Jane and Luke having sex, it were Luke and Mike.. Kenny could catch them when there were supposed to be keeping watch and say something like, "you were supposed to be keeping watch you stupid f*g's". Sure by today's standards it wouldn't be a very nice thing to say, but so what in a zombie apocalypse.
Forget sensitivity, in TWD world everything should be available for use regardless of how mean or insensitive it may be.
Sarita also has that nose-ring, her accent, and the vague hint in episode 2 that her family didn't celebrate Christmas. But since her name is also a Spanish variation of "Sarah", I cynically wonder why the writers gave a supposedly Asian woman a Latina name.
It's funny that of all the characters who can make it to the end, the children are black while all the adults are white.
You can't even remember the difference, so you clearly don't know the difference. Learn it.
Would it hurt to knock it off with the p… moreassive-aggressive attitude? It makes it hard to even try and agree with your points, besides, we can discuss this in a perfectly civil manner.
suggesting she had a tribe, when she clearly was not Native American
I never once suggested she had a tribe or anything of the sort, I was implying that, had she actually been Native American, we could have learned more about her as a character, her beliefs, moral code etc, Sarita wasn't really well developed due to every other character needing screen time, we never learned ANYTHING about her besides literally her meeting with Kenny. All I'm trying to say, was that the idea wouldn't have been half-bad. (As for the accent thing, that's really nitpicky, though this whole argument is if I'm being honest.)
And no, I will not relax when a person lik… [view original content]
Wow. I was thinking you were a troll, but given the number of likes your comment is getting, I'm guessing you're not. I appreciate you're not trying to make me mad (assuming you are indeed not a troll.) However I still am angry, though I assume that's not really your fault. And for the record, I was not being "passive-aggressive." I was being perfectly aggressive thank you very much, as you could tell I was angry without me leading you to believe I wasn't. And I have good reason to be angry.
You are correct; the "Native American"/"Indian" confusion is a misnomer/misconception, and it's ridiculous it's still around today after hundreds of years. When Christopher Columbus first came to the Americas, he was looking for the West Indies [India] and when he "discovered" America, he mistakenly named the Native Americans there "Indians" because he stupidly thought he was in India, and he thought the Native Americans were Indians....He then proceeded to sell many of them into slavery, the asswipe. >.>
Now, let me ask you some things, assuming you're not a troll. Where are you from? Where were you raised? What country? How old are you? How much schooling have you had? How much exposure have you had to media, or to politics, or the news, or to the world in general? And what ethnicity are you? For your reference, I'm a 26-year-old Asian-Indian female born and raised by two Asian-Indian immigrants-turned-citizens in the United States, first generation. I've been to college, and graduate school, and some higher education beyond that too. I've been to a few different countries, and I think I'm fairly versed in the basics of most cultures.
Now from the fact that you don't know the difference between Native Americans and Asian-Indians, I'm going to say something, and it's not me being mean, or me being angry, or anything. It is absolutely positively an utmost fact: You are ignorant. You have not been educated enough to know the difference between two completely different cultures, and for whatever reason, you still seem to think that Sarita is not Asian-Indian, when you say:
As for the accent thing, that's really nitpicky
and
The only time we get conformation of Sarita's ethnicity is during the conversation with Troy, who more than likely doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.
Sarita is Indian. She is not Native American. I grew up listening to the Indian accent for year and years, with slightly different variations and sub-dialects, I freaking know this as a fact, as does most of the world. Look up the accent yourself, jeez. Not only are you ignorant, but you seem to think that it's fine to be so. Don't you think it's a bit of a problem when you can't recognize a person coming from the second-most populated country on earth (India) and mistake them for someone else?
I never once suggested she had a tribe or anything of the sort
Don't lie, darling. You said, "it would be pretty interesting if Sarita was still alive and we ran into a tribe, we'd learn more about her character and the culture etc." You absolutely suggested she had a tribe. You made it very clear you did not know the difference between Indians and Native Americans. Yes, Sarita was not developed. I stated as such before.
I can hear you saying, "But what's the big deal? I don't get why you're so angry." In fact, you literally say,
why you chose to rage, I don't know.
I'm not angry personally at you per se since I don't even know you; more so angry I'm angry that there are still people like you out there, people of a reasonable age (I'm assuming, since you're playing this game) who really should know more about the people you share this planet with. That could be the fault of your education system or whatever, I don't know.
But let me try to show you why I'm angry, via example of what they could have done with Sarita's character, but they didn't.
So when was the last time you've seen an Indian woman like Sarita and a southerner like Kenny get together, really? This relationship is fine and all, but there's little nuances that could have been going on here that I bet you 95% of people here didn't pick up on. Traditionally, Indian women (those born in India and who've later moved to the U.S. mostly; the ones born in the U.S. are less traditional and branch out more) are expected to date/marry Indian men. There's this little thing called "arranged marriages" (which is still present today) where people set you up with someone; sometimes you don't even meet each other or even see each other, let alone talk to each other, before you get married. What if Sarita had come from this kind of background, and it would never have been allowed for her to have been with a white man like Kenny, just because her culture and her family and friends dictated it? What if she had wanted to be with a man like Kenny, and her family/friends would have basically shunned her if she chose to do so, just because of traditional values? How do you choose between two types of people you love like that? I imagine Sarita could have possibly come from such a background, and after the zombie apocalypse hit, even if it's horrible, her family could have all died couldn't they? So, even in her grieving state, was Sarita finally free to do as her heart desired? Would she feel guilt for being with Kenny after her family was gone, and still continue her family's wishes in memory of them and not be with him, or would she choose to do things for herself instead? And what about her career, which was never even mentioned? Had she been pushed into becoming a doctor or a lawyer or an engineer, simply because all Indians expect their kids to become one of those three? What if she had wanted to pursue writing, or art, or dance, or hell, why not making video games? Would she have gotten the support from her family, or would they have shot her down at her every attempt, even if she was really gifted and passionate for these arts? Was the apocalypse a second revival of her life, in disguise? And let's look at a particular scene too with Kenny--one that I think could have been changed just slightly and could have given Sarita some more character, even though it falls under Kenny's arc really--the scene where Kenny is sitting by the memorial with the dying Sarita in his arms, yelling at Clementine and saying, "You don't get to be sorry. It doesn't work like that!" Now, Sarita was bitten only a few hours before, and she could've still had a bit of strength left. I really would've loved it if Sarita--after hearing Kenny taking all this shit out on Clementine and blaming her for Sarita--had, with some of her leaving strength, internally recalled some of the verbal abuse she could have suffered from her own well-meaning but misunderstanding Indian parents, and if she could have tried to sit up and give Kenny a small smack on the face, and at least try to say, "You don't talk to me that way Kenny, and you shouldn't talk to Clem that way either. She's just a little girl." It makes sense too; if there's anyone that Kenny would listen to besides Clem in this scenario, it would be Sarita.
It's also of note that none of the scenarios in the paragraph above depict "racist" things; we can explore Sarita's culture and how it affected her in the Zombie Apocalypse without having to resort to stereotypes, as we're exploring actual characters dealing with these situations. They are real scenarios, and real situations after all.
Now, finally. You asked why I'm angry and why I'm "ranting" (if you want to call it that.) The reason I'm upset is because when you say:
Invisible, C'mon dude, I'm not trying to be an ass, but you're nitpicking at this point.
I have to ask, how am I nitpicking? The fact that you do not know the difference between Native Americans/ Indians most likely means that you do not know what struggles they have been through, struggles that are related to being a certain culture. Like I said, I'm Indian, raised in the U.S., and I know that I would not be the same person today if everything else were the same but I was white. As an Indian, I was raised with different traditions, morals, and perspectives, which have affected my life in both incredibly amazing ways, and in sometimes quite awful ways (I'm not talking about racism, fyi.) To suggest it's not a big deal for a person like you to not know the difference means that you are essentially stripping me of a good deal of my identity, saying, "yeah, no, all of your culture stuff doesn't really matter, because I can confuse your culture for a completely different culture anyway." It'd be like if you were to walk up to a woman you care about and say to her, "We are all equal in my eyes. I do not see you as a woman, because it shouldn't matter that you are a woman. We're all the same." This is a noble argument, but it is flawed, and it is wrong. How would your mother, or a woman who took care of you, feel if you said that to them, especially given that women tend to (oftentimes) take care of children more than men do, and make so many sacrifices for their kids? Like, assuming you're American, what if I said to you, "We're all the same. So you are not American in my eyes. I don't care what country you are from." But as an American, wouldn't you be proud of the achievements of the United States? Wouldn't you be insulted to not be recognized as an American? The same goes if you were to replace "America" with any country...or with any ethnicity....Do you see what I'm getting at?
You can't even remember the difference, so you clearly don't know the difference. Learn it.
Would it hurt to knock it off with the p… moreassive-aggressive attitude? It makes it hard to even try and agree with your points, besides, we can discuss this in a perfectly civil manner.
suggesting she had a tribe, when she clearly was not Native American
I never once suggested she had a tribe or anything of the sort, I was implying that, had she actually been Native American, we could have learned more about her as a character, her beliefs, moral code etc, Sarita wasn't really well developed due to every other character needing screen time, we never learned ANYTHING about her besides literally her meeting with Kenny. All I'm trying to say, was that the idea wouldn't have been half-bad. (As for the accent thing, that's really nitpicky, though this whole argument is if I'm being honest.)
And no, I will not relax when a person lik… [view original content]
"Sarita" means "flowing," "fluent," or "river" in Hindi and Sanskrit, which are both Indian languages. It's not the most uncommon name in India or Nepal, etc.
Sarita also has that nose-ring, her accent, and the vague hint in episode 2 that her family didn't celebrate Christmas. But since her name … moreis also a Spanish variation of "Sarah", I cynically wonder why the writers gave a supposedly Asian woman a Latina name.
It's funny that of all the characters who can make it to the end, the children are black while all the adults are white.
"Avoiding reinforcing racism"...but then, how do you ever address racism in games like this? Just more "urban" jokes? There are ways to address racism without it coming off as the writers being racist. Isn't talking about an issue--and I mean talking about an issue with care--always better than silence? I know you don't mean it, but "avoiding reinforcing racism" is coming off as almost censorship to me...like, a self-censorship.
I agree. People in the ZA or indeed any apocalypse just wouldn't care about giving offence, such as derogatory, racist or sexist comments.
Lets be honest here, many people couldn't care less about saying such things now, so obviously without the old bill around it would get worse.
Being sensitive, is quite a rarity these days and blatant racism is common place, so just imagine what it would be like in an apocalypse of any kind.
First, I want to say I have no problems with any race, culture, sexual preference etc..
That being said,
I would be more opposed to worr… moreying about 'sensitivity' in a game made in an apocalyptic setting. It would take away from the realism.
I'm not saying I want blatant raceism or very derogatory comment's made, but if their were, it wouldn't bother me because in the world of a zombie apocalypse, it would happen, a lot. What if rather than Jane and Luke having sex, it were Luke and Mike.. Kenny could catch them when there were supposed to be keeping watch and say something like, "you were supposed to be keeping watch you stupid f*g's". Sure by today's standards it wouldn't be a very nice thing to say, but so what in a zombie apocalypse.
Forget sensitivity, in TWD world everything should be available for use regardless of how mean or insensitive it may be.
Girl.... what? I admit maybe his original comment was a bit naive but there is no need for this page long rant , there was no intentional slander, he wasnt saying sarita was somehow inferior if she was a native american. You blew the whole thing out of proportion
Also your projecting yourself onto Sarita, who knows what her background is? Like most of the characters she doesnt get explained much.
Wow. I was thinking you were a troll, but given the number of likes your comment is getting, I'm guessing you're not. I appreciate you're no… moret trying to make me mad (assuming you are indeed not a troll.) However I still am angry, though I assume that's not really your fault. And for the record, I was not being "passive-aggressive." I was being perfectly aggressive thank you very much, as you could tell I was angry without me leading you to believe I wasn't. And I have good reason to be angry.
You are correct; the "Native American"/"Indian" confusion is a misnomer/misconception, and it's ridiculous it's still around today after hundreds of years. When Christopher Columbus first came to the Americas, he was looking for the West Indies [India] and when he "discovered" America, he mistakenly named the Native Americans there "Indians" because he stupidly thought he was in India, and he thought the Native Americans were Indians....He then proceed… [view original content]
yes, I was agreeing and extending on your comment:
Perhaps the Russians are re-use assets that Telltale just didn't want to let go
You may believe the opposite of what I said, but that's not how it came across in your original post, at least prima facie. Your original comment doesn't say one way or the other how you felt about S2. So I'm agreeing with you that the Russian group could've been reused material that TT did not want to let go and then I add in my own interpretation of why they would've reused said unused material...get it? that's kinda how discussion boards work, mate
It didn't come across as you 'slandering' S2, but I don't think my saying S2 wasn't as thoughtful as S1 is slandering S2 either..maybe you should look up the definition of slander b/c that's far from slander.
if I misinterpreted what you meant by your original post, then merely state that instead of being an immature jerk about it. And just for the record, I may think that S2 was not as thoughtful as S1, but I still loved S2 regardless so there was no need to tell me to 'cry about it to someone who cares'...that was completely unnecessary
My comment was not about slandering S2 in any way. In fact I believe the opposite of what you said about S2.
this right here...that's all you needed to reply with and that would've gotten your point across clearly and concisely
I was trying to explain why I was angry, and why I still am.He/she did not know why I would have reason to be upset. Maybe my reply was a little long, but I've mostly said what I wanted to say. I wouldn't expect anyone to understand my perspective if I tried to say all of what I wanted to say in just a few lines.
Sarita, who knows what her background is?
...she says she's "Indian" to Troy. Therefore she can only be either Asian-Indian or Native American. Her voice does not sound like that of a Native American's; rather it sounds exactly like that of an Asian-Indian. Therefore I have to conclude she's Asian-Indian, not Native American, or Latina, or some other ethnicity.
Girl.... what? I admit maybe his original comment was a bit naive but there is no need for this page long rant , there was no intentional sl… moreander, he wasnt saying sarita was somehow inferior if she was a native american. You blew the whole thing out of proportion
Also your projecting yourself onto Sarita, who knows what her background is? Like most of the characters she doesnt get explained much.
That was probably going to happen anyways, EP4 slide suggested you were going to be surrounded by some cult performing an initiation of some sort but LOL REWRITTEN.
I didn't mean in the same scene. I meant an entirely different plot all together such as Clem and company finding a tribe and exploring them instead of them just existing to be killed by the pathetic group of Season2
To be fair most names do belong to different kinds of ethnicities even if they don't look or sound like it at first. It's not unreasonable for the name Sarita to belong to different kind of ethnicities.
Take my name 'Richard' for instance, I'm English but my name isn't exclusive to England. My name does has several uses in different languages and their respective countries: English, French, German, Czech, Dutch, Ancient Germanic, and possibly more.
Sarita also has that nose-ring, her accent, and the vague hint in episode 2 that her family didn't celebrate Christmas. But since her name … moreis also a Spanish variation of "Sarah", I cynically wonder why the writers gave a supposedly Asian woman a Latina name.
It's funny that of all the characters who can make it to the end, the children are black while all the adults are white.
Lol to be honest I barely ever get into actual arguments with 99% of people in person, because there's barely ever a need to. I speak things out rather than yell them.
...If you're suggesting people are afraid of speaking to me because they're afraid I'll chew them out for saying something slightly out of line or whatever, I don't think you're being fair. Most people I know think I'm a very approachable and overly-empathetic person. Plus, you don't even know me.
Lol ok...um thanks, I think? xp And sorry, it's hard to tell what people mean on the forums sometimes. Talking online is not the the same as talking in person.
You can mention racism without reinforcing it if you show that that racism is misfounded.
However, this is different to what I'm saying: I'm saying an attempt to include a native american tribe would likely end up reflecting racist and xenophobic stereotypical ideas, and since these would not be intended but rather a reflection of the xenophobia inherent in our society, they would be unlikely to be challenged.
Having a native american tribe and then having that tribe disprove stereotypes is another thing completely.
"Avoiding reinforcing racism"...but then, how do you ever address racism in games like this? Just more "urban" jokes? There are ways to addr… moreess racism without it coming off as the writers being racist. Isn't talking about an issue--and I mean talking about an issue with care--always better than silence? I know you don't mean it, but "avoiding reinforcing racism" is coming off as almost censorship to me...like, a self-censorship.
LOL Thanks, I Remember when i was a kid, i would tell people of my heritage, people would always ask me, what tribe? Some people would get irritated, i just would respond, "Dot not feather. "
You said nothing about S1 in your post about how S2 had no heart and thoughtfulness so I was assuming it was just another S2 sucked response. Since that's all I've been hearing around here/every response I've had about S2, I am getting sick of hearing it. I didn't say anything bad about S1 or S2 in my original post, just my thoughts about what Telltale possibly did. Then I see a negative response about S2 is all I get kinda irrataed me. Everyone is welcome to their opinion, but I've seen enough of it.
Reusing assets is not a bad thing, nor does it make it seem like TT does not care about their game. They do it all the time in their other games and it's a wise move.
yes, I was agreeing and extending on your comment:
Perhaps the Russians are re-use assets that Telltale just didn't want to let go
… more
You may believe the opposite of what I said, but that's not how it came across in your original post, at least prima facie. Your original comment doesn't say one way or the other how you felt about S2. So I'm agreeing with you that the Russian group could've been reused material that TT did not want to let go and then I add in my own interpretation of why they would've reused said unused material...get it? that's kinda how discussion boards work, mate
It didn't come across as you 'slandering' S2, but I don't think my saying S2 wasn't as thoughtful as S1 is slandering S2 either..maybe you should look up the definition of slander b/c that's far from slander.
if I misinterpreted what you meant by your original post, then merely state that instead of being an immature jerk about it. And just for th… [view original content]
Wait, as in Neo-Nazis? That'd be pretty scary actually... I'd be terrified in Clem's shoes, given that her ethnicity isn't really white... I think I'll stop thinking about that, too many horrifying scenarios are popping up in my head....
I wouldn't mind seeing a street gang as a group. Latin kings, Bloods, Aryans etc. Sad to say, but those are actually the type of assholes I can see lasting a while in a ZA
considering there wasn't as much heart and thoughtfulness in S2
I didn't think I needed to explicitly reference S1...this would imply 'as compared to what?' and then it would follow, 'as compared to S1'
I didn't think you said anything bad about S1...I was stating my interpretation of the facts...and no, reusing unused ideas isn't necessarily bad, but there's a reason why material is scraped and replaced with something else...and it's all about execution of the reused materials...and I meant by my statement, not that TT doesn't care about their games, but that S2 got shafted b/c of all the new projects that were being taken on during S2s production...I felt like if the Russians were reused material, it was a cop-out b/c the staff in charge of S2 of TWD simply didn't not have the time and man-power to make S2 really up to its potential...without saying so in so many words
You said nothing about S1 in your post about how S2 had no heart and thoughtfulness so I was assuming it was just another S2 sucked response… more. Since that's all I've been hearing around here/every response I've had about S2, I am getting sick of hearing it. I didn't say anything bad about S1 or S2 in my original post, just my thoughts about what Telltale possibly did. Then I see a negative response about S2 is all I get kinda irrataed me. Everyone is welcome to their opinion, but I've seen enough of it.
Reusing assets is not a bad thing, nor does it make it seem like TT does not care about their game. They do it all the time in their other games and it's a wise move.
I guess that's what makes them still indie developers. Lack of experience diversifying projects and the use of old assets. It didn't make me think any less of S2 in the series though.
Sorry for being a jerk and thanks for the explaination. I'll erase the hate.
considering there wasn't as much heart and thoughtfulness in S2
I didn't think I needed to explicitly reference S1...this would impl… morey 'as compared to what?' and then it would follow, 'as compared to S1'
I didn't think you said anything bad about S1...I was stating my interpretation of the facts...and no, reusing unused ideas isn't necessarily bad, but there's a reason why material is scraped and replaced with something else...and it's all about execution of the reused materials...and I meant by my statement, not that TT doesn't care about their games, but that S2 got shafted b/c of all the new projects that were being taken on during S2s production...I felt like if the Russians were reused material, it was a cop-out b/c the staff in charge of S2 of TWD simply didn't not have the time and man-power to make S2 really up to its potential...without saying so in so many words
I guess that's what makes them still indie developers. Lack of experience diversifying projects and the use of old assets. It didn't make me… more think any less of S2 in the series though.
Sorry for being a jerk and thanks for the explaination. I'll erase the hate.
Comments
Anything could have been interesting if it had been developed more, it's the biggest curse in Season 2.
Specific characters such as Alvin, Carlos, Reggie and Sarita were indcredibly underdeveloped.
Carver's Camp was very one dimensional too
And we almost had no interaction with the Russians besides shooting at them.
The bad part about them being foreigners is that it came out of no where, that is why it feels forced. If it had been forshadowed that they might be in the area then it would have worked fine. It could be as simple as overhearing Carver's people mentioning run-ins with this Russian rogue group.
But otherwise, yes I do agree. Russians are used a lot, especially by American media (unsurpsisingly) as villains. Also having exclusively native American and black groups would appear racist to some of the more touchy audiences..
Thanks Man.
I really wasn't bothered by this, With the way I acted way back in November, I should have been banned a while ago, I kinda deserved this, You know?
Plus they are Chinese so they must be martial arts experts and can probably fly.
Oh its a joke, i figured you would get it. I'm mixed, I'm half Indian. half Italian.
I am known for my bad jokes across the galaxy.
Over-sensitivity is a massive reason for things being seen as racist when they aren't.
.
What's with the attitude?
I was agreeing with you so your comment is kinda irrelevant
First, I want to say I have no problems with any race, culture, sexual preference etc..
That being said,
I would be more opposed to worrying about 'sensitivity' in a game made in an apocalyptic setting. It would take away from the realism.
I'm not saying I want blatant raceism or very derogatory comment's made, but if their were, it wouldn't bother me because in the world of a zombie apocalypse, it would happen, a lot. What if rather than Jane and Luke having sex, it were Luke and Mike.. Kenny could catch them when there were supposed to be keeping watch and say something like, "you were supposed to be keeping watch you stupid f*g's". Sure by today's standards it wouldn't be a very nice thing to say, but so what in a zombie apocalypse.
Forget sensitivity, in TWD world everything should be available for use regardless of how mean or insensitive it may be.
Sarita also has that nose-ring, her accent, and the vague hint in episode 2 that her family didn't celebrate Christmas. But since her name is also a Spanish variation of "Sarah", I cynically wonder why the writers gave a supposedly Asian woman a Latina name.
It's funny that of all the characters who can make it to the end, the children are black while all the adults are white.
Wow. I was thinking you were a troll, but given the number of likes your comment is getting, I'm guessing you're not. I appreciate you're not trying to make me mad (assuming you are indeed not a troll.) However I still am angry, though I assume that's not really your fault. And for the record, I was not being "passive-aggressive." I was being perfectly aggressive thank you very much, as you could tell I was angry without me leading you to believe I wasn't. And I have good reason to be angry.
You are correct; the "Native American"/"Indian" confusion is a misnomer/misconception, and it's ridiculous it's still around today after hundreds of years. When Christopher Columbus first came to the Americas, he was looking for the West Indies [India] and when he "discovered" America, he mistakenly named the Native Americans there "Indians" because he stupidly thought he was in India, and he thought the Native Americans were Indians....He then proceeded to sell many of them into slavery, the asswipe. >.>
Now, let me ask you some things, assuming you're not a troll. Where are you from? Where were you raised? What country? How old are you? How much schooling have you had? How much exposure have you had to media, or to politics, or the news, or to the world in general? And what ethnicity are you? For your reference, I'm a 26-year-old Asian-Indian female born and raised by two Asian-Indian immigrants-turned-citizens in the United States, first generation. I've been to college, and graduate school, and some higher education beyond that too. I've been to a few different countries, and I think I'm fairly versed in the basics of most cultures.
Now from the fact that you don't know the difference between Native Americans and Asian-Indians, I'm going to say something, and it's not me being mean, or me being angry, or anything. It is absolutely positively an utmost fact: You are ignorant. You have not been educated enough to know the difference between two completely different cultures, and for whatever reason, you still seem to think that Sarita is not Asian-Indian, when you say:
and
Sarita is Indian. She is not Native American. I grew up listening to the Indian accent for year and years, with slightly different variations and sub-dialects, I freaking know this as a fact, as does most of the world. Look up the accent yourself, jeez. Not only are you ignorant, but you seem to think that it's fine to be so. Don't you think it's a bit of a problem when you can't recognize a person coming from the second-most populated country on earth (India) and mistake them for someone else?
Don't lie, darling. You said, "it would be pretty interesting if Sarita was still alive and we ran into a tribe, we'd learn more about her character and the culture etc." You absolutely suggested she had a tribe. You made it very clear you did not know the difference between Indians and Native Americans. Yes, Sarita was not developed. I stated as such before.
I can hear you saying, "But what's the big deal? I don't get why you're so angry." In fact, you literally say,
I'm not angry personally at you per se since I don't even know you; more so angry I'm angry that there are still people like you out there, people of a reasonable age (I'm assuming, since you're playing this game) who really should know more about the people you share this planet with. That could be the fault of your education system or whatever, I don't know.
But let me try to show you why I'm angry, via example of what they could have done with Sarita's character, but they didn't.
So when was the last time you've seen an Indian woman like Sarita and a southerner like Kenny get together, really? This relationship is fine and all, but there's little nuances that could have been going on here that I bet you 95% of people here didn't pick up on. Traditionally, Indian women (those born in India and who've later moved to the U.S. mostly; the ones born in the U.S. are less traditional and branch out more) are expected to date/marry Indian men. There's this little thing called "arranged marriages" (which is still present today) where people set you up with someone; sometimes you don't even meet each other or even see each other, let alone talk to each other, before you get married. What if Sarita had come from this kind of background, and it would never have been allowed for her to have been with a white man like Kenny, just because her culture and her family and friends dictated it? What if she had wanted to be with a man like Kenny, and her family/friends would have basically shunned her if she chose to do so, just because of traditional values? How do you choose between two types of people you love like that? I imagine Sarita could have possibly come from such a background, and after the zombie apocalypse hit, even if it's horrible, her family could have all died couldn't they? So, even in her grieving state, was Sarita finally free to do as her heart desired? Would she feel guilt for being with Kenny after her family was gone, and still continue her family's wishes in memory of them and not be with him, or would she choose to do things for herself instead? And what about her career, which was never even mentioned? Had she been pushed into becoming a doctor or a lawyer or an engineer, simply because all Indians expect their kids to become one of those three? What if she had wanted to pursue writing, or art, or dance, or hell, why not making video games? Would she have gotten the support from her family, or would they have shot her down at her every attempt, even if she was really gifted and passionate for these arts? Was the apocalypse a second revival of her life, in disguise? And let's look at a particular scene too with Kenny--one that I think could have been changed just slightly and could have given Sarita some more character, even though it falls under Kenny's arc really--the scene where Kenny is sitting by the memorial with the dying Sarita in his arms, yelling at Clementine and saying, "You don't get to be sorry. It doesn't work like that!" Now, Sarita was bitten only a few hours before, and she could've still had a bit of strength left. I really would've loved it if Sarita--after hearing Kenny taking all this shit out on Clementine and blaming her for Sarita--had, with some of her leaving strength, internally recalled some of the verbal abuse she could have suffered from her own well-meaning but misunderstanding Indian parents, and if she could have tried to sit up and give Kenny a small smack on the face, and at least try to say, "You don't talk to me that way Kenny, and you shouldn't talk to Clem that way either. She's just a little girl." It makes sense too; if there's anyone that Kenny would listen to besides Clem in this scenario, it would be Sarita.
It's also of note that none of the scenarios in the paragraph above depict "racist" things; we can explore Sarita's culture and how it affected her in the Zombie Apocalypse without having to resort to stereotypes, as we're exploring actual characters dealing with these situations. They are real scenarios, and real situations after all.
Now, finally. You asked why I'm angry and why I'm "ranting" (if you want to call it that.) The reason I'm upset is because when you say:
I have to ask, how am I nitpicking? The fact that you do not know the difference between Native Americans/ Indians most likely means that you do not know what struggles they have been through, struggles that are related to being a certain culture. Like I said, I'm Indian, raised in the U.S., and I know that I would not be the same person today if everything else were the same but I was white. As an Indian, I was raised with different traditions, morals, and perspectives, which have affected my life in both incredibly amazing ways, and in sometimes quite awful ways (I'm not talking about racism, fyi.) To suggest it's not a big deal for a person like you to not know the difference means that you are essentially stripping me of a good deal of my identity, saying, "yeah, no, all of your culture stuff doesn't really matter, because I can confuse your culture for a completely different culture anyway." It'd be like if you were to walk up to a woman you care about and say to her, "We are all equal in my eyes. I do not see you as a woman, because it shouldn't matter that you are a woman. We're all the same." This is a noble argument, but it is flawed, and it is wrong. How would your mother, or a woman who took care of you, feel if you said that to them, especially given that women tend to (oftentimes) take care of children more than men do, and make so many sacrifices for their kids? Like, assuming you're American, what if I said to you, "We're all the same. So you are not American in my eyes. I don't care what country you are from." But as an American, wouldn't you be proud of the achievements of the United States? Wouldn't you be insulted to not be recognized as an American? The same goes if you were to replace "America" with any country...or with any ethnicity....Do you see what I'm getting at?
Does all that make sense?
Hopefully that answers some things. :huffs:
Lol you sound like my dad. He tells the worst, goofiest dad jokes all the time. XD
"Sarita" means "flowing," "fluent," or "river" in Hindi and Sanskrit, which are both Indian languages. It's not the most uncommon name in India or Nepal, etc.
"Avoiding reinforcing racism"...but then, how do you ever address racism in games like this? Just more "urban" jokes? There are ways to address racism without it coming off as the writers being racist. Isn't talking about an issue--and I mean talking about an issue with care--always better than silence? I know you don't mean it, but "avoiding reinforcing racism" is coming off as almost censorship to me...like, a self-censorship.
No you werent. My comment was not about slandering S2 in any way. In fact I believe the opposite of what you said about S2.
I agree. People in the ZA or indeed any apocalypse just wouldn't care about giving offence, such as derogatory, racist or sexist comments.
Lets be honest here, many people couldn't care less about saying such things now, so obviously without the old bill around it would get worse.
Being sensitive, is quite a rarity these days and blatant racism is common place, so just imagine what it would be like in an apocalypse of any kind.
Girl.... what? I admit maybe his original comment was a bit naive but there is no need for this page long rant , there was no intentional slander, he wasnt saying sarita was somehow inferior if she was a native american. You blew the whole thing out of proportion
Also your projecting yourself onto Sarita, who knows what her background is? Like most of the characters she doesnt get explained much.
yes, I was agreeing and extending on your comment:
You may believe the opposite of what I said, but that's not how it came across in your original post, at least prima facie. Your original comment doesn't say one way or the other how you felt about S2. So I'm agreeing with you that the Russian group could've been reused material that TT did not want to let go and then I add in my own interpretation of why they would've reused said unused material...get it? that's kinda how discussion boards work, mate
It didn't come across as you 'slandering' S2, but I don't think my saying S2 wasn't as thoughtful as S1 is slandering S2 either..maybe you should look up the definition of slander b/c that's far from slander.
if I misinterpreted what you meant by your original post, then merely state that instead of being an immature jerk about it. And just for the record, I may think that S2 was not as thoughtful as S1, but I still loved S2 regardless so there was no need to tell me to 'cry about it to someone who cares'...that was completely unnecessary
this right here...that's all you needed to reply with and that would've gotten your point across clearly and concisely
I was trying to explain why I was angry, and why I still am.He/she did not know why I would have reason to be upset. Maybe my reply was a little long, but I've mostly said what I wanted to say. I wouldn't expect anyone to understand my perspective if I tried to say all of what I wanted to say in just a few lines.
...she says she's "Indian" to Troy.
Therefore she can only be either Asian-Indian or Native American. Her voice does not sound like that of a Native American's; rather it sounds exactly like that of an Asian-Indian. Therefore I have to conclude she's Asian-Indian, not Native American, or Latina, or some other ethnicity.
That was probably going to happen anyways, EP4 slide suggested you were going to be surrounded by some cult performing an initiation of some sort but LOL REWRITTEN.
I can vouch for sialark: http://www.behindthename.com/name/sarita-1/comments
To be fair most names do belong to different kinds of ethnicities even if they don't look or sound like it at first. It's not unreasonable for the name Sarita to belong to different kind of ethnicities.
Take my name 'Richard' for instance, I'm English but my name isn't exclusive to England. My name does has several uses in different languages and their respective countries: English, French, German, Czech, Dutch, Ancient Germanic, and possibly more.
Lol to be honest I barely ever get into actual arguments with 99% of people in person, because there's barely ever a need to. I speak things out rather than yell them.
...If you're suggesting people are afraid of speaking to me because they're afraid I'll chew them out for saying something slightly out of line or whatever, I don't think you're being fair. Most people I know think I'm a very approachable and overly-empathetic person. Plus, you don't even know me.
Lol ok...um thanks, I think? xp And sorry, it's hard to tell what people mean on the forums sometimes. Talking online is not the the same as talking in person.
You can mention racism without reinforcing it if you show that that racism is misfounded.
However, this is different to what I'm saying: I'm saying an attempt to include a native american tribe would likely end up reflecting racist and xenophobic stereotypical ideas, and since these would not be intended but rather a reflection of the xenophobia inherent in our society, they would be unlikely to be challenged.
Having a native american tribe and then having that tribe disprove stereotypes is another thing completely.
LOL Thanks, I Remember when i was a kid, i would tell people of my heritage, people would always ask me, what tribe? Some people would get irritated, i just would respond, "Dot not feather. "
You said nothing about S1 in your post about how S2 had no heart and thoughtfulness so I was assuming it was just another S2 sucked response. Since that's all I've been hearing around here/every response I've had about S2, I am getting sick of hearing it. I didn't say anything bad about S1 or S2 in my original post, just my thoughts about what Telltale possibly did. Then I see a negative response about S2 is all I get kinda irrataed me. Everyone is welcome to their opinion, but I've seen enough of it.
Reusing assets is not a bad thing, nor does it make it seem like TT does not care about their game. They do it all the time in their other games and it's a wise move.
No mate, it's the Japanese who can flyhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kdy0ESsZE2g
Most likely they'd be used as scouts, looking for food and warning the other survivors about hordes.
Wait, as in Neo-Nazis? That'd be pretty scary actually... I'd be terrified in Clem's shoes, given that her ethnicity isn't really white... I think I'll stop thinking about that, too many horrifying scenarios are popping up in my head....
I sure as hell wouldn't,
I didn't think I needed to explicitly reference S1...this would imply 'as compared to what?' and then it would follow, 'as compared to S1'
I didn't think you said anything bad about S1...I was stating my interpretation of the facts...and no, reusing unused ideas isn't necessarily bad, but there's a reason why material is scraped and replaced with something else...and it's all about execution of the reused materials...and I meant by my statement, not that TT doesn't care about their games, but that S2 got shafted b/c of all the new projects that were being taken on during S2s production...I felt like if the Russians were reused material, it was a cop-out b/c the staff in charge of S2 of TWD simply didn't not have the time and man-power to make S2 really up to its potential...without saying so in so many words
I guess that's what makes them still indie developers. Lack of experience diversifying projects and the use of old assets. It didn't make me think any less of S2 in the series though.
Sorry for being a jerk and thanks for the explaination. I'll erase the hate.
They could've used bandits again...& Lilly as their leader (as a nice twist)...
BUT NOPE !1!11!1!
I appreciate the apology, especially b/c I'm not a S2 hater, at least not intentionally :-)
I'm glad you two made up, NOW GROUP HUG. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH That is the stuff.