You see what you see, I can't help you with that. And sure he is crazy, in his own way, he has a very black and white way of seeing things = burn your daughter and we win or don't burn and we starve to death is what Mel gives him and he believes it. He believes it's what he has to do and does it even if he loves his daughter... That kind of determination is his best and worst quality.
What comes to character development I see Stannis' story as a very tragic one, since season 2 when we met him he has slowly been sinking deeper and deeper into this madness that comes from Melisandre. At the Wall it looked like he was having a redemption and that was what I hoped too, but a desperate moment like this took him down again. Or did you think of him as "psycho" the first time we saw him in s2?
Talk with your daughter about love and then burn her alive? It's doesn't make Stannis "complicate character", it just means Stannis is more mad than the Mad King himself and a pure villain. I don't see character development, I just see a psycho.
Martin told that Shireen is going to die that way. But I highly doubt Stannis is going to burn his daughter alive himself (considering both the novel and TV show). Completely out of character.
Exactly this. D&D just fucked up Stannis completely. They have been treating him awfully from the start (Seriously, in S2 he was just awful, and only 2x09, an episode written by George Martin made him justice) and now that they just started to treat him a bit better they go and do this?
For us who know him from the books, and are huge fans of him because of all his greatness what they did to him in the show is just horrid.
I understand GRRM told the producers that Shireen was going to die soon in the books, and maybe even burned too.. BUT, Stannis will never do a thing such as this. Is completely out of character. And, as you said, Stannis has told all his allies that when he dies he wants them to back up Shireen and help her take the throne as his heir.
But... anyway, screw logic and screw him right? let's just go and kill his daughter in a very horrific way and sock the audience!! And let's make Selysse, a complete zealot who did not seem to love her daughter at all, be horrified and try to save her while her vile husband watches like a monster. Yeah...
Martin told that Shireen is going to die that way. But I highly doubt Stannis is going to burn his daughter alive himself (considering both the novel and TV show). Completely out of character.
Exactly this. D&D just fucked up Stannis completely. They have been treating him awfully from the start (Seriously, in S2 he was just aw… moreful, and only 2x09, an episode written by George Martin made him justice) and now that they just started to treat him a bit better they go and do this?
For us who know him from the books, and are huge fans of him because of all his greatness what they did to him in the show is just horrid.
I understand GRRM told the producers that Shireen was going to die soon in the books, and maybe even burned too.. BUT, Stannis will never do a thing such as this. Is completely out of character. And, as you said, Stannis has told all his allies that when he dies he wants them to back up Shireen and help her take the throne as his heir.
But... anyway, screw logic and screw him right? let's just go and kill his daughter in a very horrific way and sock the audience!! And let's make Selysse, a complete zealot who di… [view original content]
I was only being half-serious, but the further they deviate from the books and the closer they come to spoiling future plot points, the more GRRM has distanced himself from the show and continually reiterated the differences in interviews and commentaries. He seems to basically see the show as a parallel universe of his story now, instead of an adaptation. I suspect he always imagined he would stay well ahead of them, but now that they're basically overtaking him, the best way to preserve the surprises in 'his' version of the story until he finally gets the books out is to provide D&D with an alternate version of the storylines. Then when he publishes and people are surprised to see that Shireen isn't burnt in the books (or dies under different circumstances) they can choose to view his version as true canon instead of the show, despite the show coming first.
Exactly this. D&D just fucked up Stannis completely. They have been treating him awfully from the start (Seriously, in S2 he was just aw… moreful, and only 2x09, an episode written by George Martin made him justice) and now that they just started to treat him a bit better they go and do this?
For us who know him from the books, and are huge fans of him because of all his greatness what they did to him in the show is just horrid.
I understand GRRM told the producers that Shireen was going to die soon in the books, and maybe even burned too.. BUT, Stannis will never do a thing such as this. Is completely out of character. And, as you said, Stannis has told all his allies that when he dies he wants them to back up Shireen and help her take the throne as his heir.
But... anyway, screw logic and screw him right? let's just go and kill his daughter in a very horrific way and sock the audience!! And let's make Selysse, a complete zealot who di… [view original content]
Blood means EVERYTHING to him. That's why he is so eager to take the throne: Not because he wants to be king, its just that he is the rightful king after Robert's death. Because he is the next in line and Tommen, Myrcella and Joffrey are bastards. IT's been all about blood for Stannis since the begining..
And he loves his daughter. He is not sweet and caring, but he loves her. Why saying everyone to back her in case he dies if he is going to burn her? that makes no sense at all. If he kills his only daughter all he's done means nothing because he will have no heirs!
If he burns her in the books too, i dont see how it wouldnt. Stannis has always been rigid, stubborn single-minded, putting duty and his ide… morea of fairness above feelings. This action is extreme but not totally out if his character. Blood means nothing to him, he already killed his brother. Ive never been a fan of Stannis because he is so hardheaded and now he's desperate.
Good episode, I think whoever ends up on the throne isnt going to be all that great, also after this episode I'm predicting some Bolton support.
I do think a battle is unlikely this season though
Dorne is still dull I really hope Doran has an alternative plan we hear next week
The dany stuff was fine
Also did anyone else note greyscale Jorah touched Dany, then she touched missandrei in very clear moments....Would be a nice little development Dany becomes a transport for the disease. Maybe I'm over thinking it though
I REALLY don't like what they've done to Stannis' character...
In episode 7 when Melisandre suggested burning Shireen he said "Shes my dauther. Get OUT!"
and now he's all like " hey listen shireen i dont wanna do this but yeah you know D&D & GRRM needs to shock ppl so lets burn u lol"
I was only being half-serious, but the further they deviate from the books and the closer they come to spoiling future plot points, the more… more GRRM has distanced himself from the show and continually reiterated the differences in interviews and commentaries. He seems to basically see the show as a parallel universe of his story now, instead of an adaptation. I suspect he always imagined he would stay well ahead of them, but now that they're basically overtaking him, the best way to preserve the surprises in 'his' version of the story until he finally gets the books out is to provide D&D with an alternate version of the storylines. Then when he publishes and people are surprised to see that Shireen isn't burnt in the books (or dies under different circumstances) they can choose to view his version as true canon instead of the show, despite the show coming first.
Goes to show how rigid he is. He believes this course of action is the right one and he's taking it. And there is nothing to say he cant have another child in the future. He's still a relatively young man. I guess i should have said family means nothing to him.
Blood means EVERYTHING to him. That's why he is so eager to take the throne: Not because he wants to be king, its just that he is the rightf… moreul king after Robert's death. Because he is the next in line and Tommen, Myrcella and Joffrey are bastards. IT's been all about blood for Stannis since the begining..
And he loves his daughter. He is not sweet and caring, but he loves her. Why saying everyone to back her in case he dies if he is going to burn her? that makes no sense at all. If he kills his only daughter all he's done means nothing because he will have no heirs!
While I really REALLY don't like what Stannis did, I have to look on the factors that forced him to make this decision. Stannis is extremely stubborn, he refuses to give up and even if he stays at the Wall, him and his army will starve to death and it would exhaust the Night's Watch's supplies.
Ramsay has just destroyed his food supplies and a lot of horses, which means that unless he does something, they will starve and die anyway.
So yeah, it was a combination of his sheer stubbornness and the extreme desperate situation that made him do this horrible choice. You can sorta understand his reasoning, but I am no longer rooting for this guy. Sacrificing your own child for power, just goes far beyond my moral limits.
I REALLY don't like what they've done to Stannis' character...
In episode 7 when Melisandre suggested burning Shireen he said "Shes my daut… moreher. Get OUT!"
and now he's all like " hey listen shireen i dont wanna do this but yeah you know D&D & GRRM needs to shock ppl so lets burn u lol"
Hehe yeah, that is what I thought as well at the end. How will her "friends" get out of the Pit alive on their own?
Matter of fact - they will. they are alive in the preview for next episode.
I guess the son's of the harpye didn't want to risk their own lives anymore after Daeny left. Drogon killed a good part of the son's....
Hehe yeah, that is what I thought as well at the end. How will her "friends" get out of the Pit alive on their own? :P
And yes, don`t forge… moret who awaits Stannis when he gets to Winterfell. Brienne who has sworn to kill him is nearby, so something tells me the Boltons may be victorious afterall. Unless Tommen and Myrcelle gets stoned in the streets next episode and Stannis becomes the King.
He didn't murder his brother he killed his brother in war. There's a difference. Renly betrayed Stannis. Stannis had every right to kill a traitor. Killing his own daughter, however, is unforgivable.
Everyone has flaws in the books and the show nobody is perfect and that is what makes it great. And all characters have fanboys or fanatics in some cases but the fact is that Stannis would not do this in the books.
Saying it doesn't make it so. Just because he felt that he murdered his brother it doesn't mean he actually did. His feelings clouded his judgement on the matter. Yes, Stannis has feelings.
I see some people blaming Davos for not insisting to take Shireen, but I don't think he REALLY thought Stannis would stoop so low as to kill his own daughter.
He wanted to bring her to Castle Black because he felt that a battlefield wasn't a safe place for Shireen, but I don't think he expected that the danger really came from Stannis himself.
He does genuinely feel that Stannis is a good man at heart. He's said that before. If he risked so much to save Gendry from that fate with the Red Woman, a boy he hardly knew, do you think he wouldn't try his hardest to save Shireen, of all people?
I kinda see a bit of humanity in it. There where a lot of scenes in the episode where they showed Stannis troops being in a horrible state.
He wanted to save all of his Men, so he sacrifaces Shireen for 5000 Men.
He didn't murder his brother he killed his brother in war. There's a difference. Renly betrayed Stannis. Stannis had every right to kill a traitor. Killing his own daughter, however, is unforgivable.
I think he did it because he saw that he was going to lose the war if things continued to deteriorate not because his heart bled for his suffering men.
I kinda see a bit of humanity in it. There where a lot of scenes in the episode where they showed Stannis troops being in a horrible state.
He wanted to save all of his Men, so he sacrifaces Shireen for 5000 Men.
I got them tears thou
It was stated pretty clearly in the inside the episode that he plans on it happening and that it was his idea, not D&D's. Wonder if the reason they've made him so much more unlikeable in the show is because they knew he was going to do this....
I think some people, after all this time, still get upset when they see things they don't want. Especially when the show doesn't have the books as cover anymore. It's happened already with with the infamous Cersei and Jamie scene in season 4, the Ramsey and Sansa scene that got everyone ruffled earlier, and then this scene with Shireen.
I don't know, it all seems reasonable to me. Different media requires different pacing and creative choices, and I think the showrunners did a great job at getting through book material that should have been skipped in a time jump anyway (and yes, I am digging at book 4 and to a lesser extent 5 here).
I don't understand how people couldn't see this coming, or that it wasn't already in Stannis's mind before this episode. Melisandre was givi… moreng reminders every other episode that "a King's blood" is both flammable and powerful, and he's seen (what he thinks, I guess debate is there) examples of its power.
He's backed into a corner and forced to choose between his personal feelings and his duty as a king. In the end, there really is only one choice for him, and Dillane does an excellent job showing his conflict this episode.
The earlier story about how he told everyone to go to hell when they said Shireen should be sent away differs in a major way. At that point, Stannis was Robert's brother, and not his heir, let alone (in his mind) the monarch. In this scenario, he can't march forward, he can't retreat, he's out of supplies in a endless winter attempting to siege a castle with no siege equipment against a force that knows the land and t… [view original content]
Saying it doesn't make it so. Just because he felt that he murdered his brother it doesn't mean he actually did. His feelings clouded his judgement on the matter. Yes, Stannis has feelings.
Comments
You really believe this?
You see what you see, I can't help you with that. And sure he is crazy, in his own way, he has a very black and white way of seeing things = burn your daughter and we win or don't burn and we starve to death is what Mel gives him and he believes it. He believes it's what he has to do and does it even if he loves his daughter... That kind of determination is his best and worst quality.
What comes to character development I see Stannis' story as a very tragic one, since season 2 when we met him he has slowly been sinking deeper and deeper into this madness that comes from Melisandre. At the Wall it looked like he was having a redemption and that was what I hoped too, but a desperate moment like this took him down again. Or did you think of him as "psycho" the first time we saw him in s2?
Martin told that Shireen is going to die that way. But I highly doubt Stannis is going to burn his daughter alive himself (considering both the novel and TV show). Completely out of character.
Exactly this. D&D just fucked up Stannis completely. They have been treating him awfully from the start (Seriously, in S2 he was just awful, and only 2x09, an episode written by George Martin made him justice) and now that they just started to treat him a bit better they go and do this?
For us who know him from the books, and are huge fans of him because of all his greatness what they did to him in the show is just horrid.
I understand GRRM told the producers that Shireen was going to die soon in the books, and maybe even burned too.. BUT, Stannis will never do a thing such as this. Is completely out of character. And, as you said, Stannis has told all his allies that when he dies he wants them to back up Shireen and help her take the throne as his heir.
But... anyway, screw logic and screw him right? let's just go and kill his daughter in a very horrific way and sock the audience!! And let's make Selysse, a complete zealot who did not seem to love her daughter at all, be horrified and try to save her while her vile husband watches like a monster. Yeah...
who cares about Stannis anyway....(-_-)
People put book Stannis on such a pedestal. He's not that great.
I was only being half-serious, but the further they deviate from the books and the closer they come to spoiling future plot points, the more GRRM has distanced himself from the show and continually reiterated the differences in interviews and commentaries. He seems to basically see the show as a parallel universe of his story now, instead of an adaptation. I suspect he always imagined he would stay well ahead of them, but now that they're basically overtaking him, the best way to preserve the surprises in 'his' version of the story until he finally gets the books out is to provide D&D with an alternate version of the storylines. Then when he publishes and people are surprised to see that Shireen isn't burnt in the books (or dies under different circumstances) they can choose to view his version as true canon instead of the show, despite the show coming first.
It was Georges idea to kill Shereen like that, Not D&D.
Blood means EVERYTHING to him. That's why he is so eager to take the throne: Not because he wants to be king, its just that he is the rightful king after Robert's death. Because he is the next in line and Tommen, Myrcella and Joffrey are bastards. IT's been all about blood for Stannis since the begining..
And he loves his daughter. He is not sweet and caring, but he loves her. Why saying everyone to back her in case he dies if he is going to burn her? that makes no sense at all. If he kills his only daughter all he's done means nothing because he will have no heirs!
Good episode, I think whoever ends up on the throne isnt going to be all that great, also after this episode I'm predicting some Bolton support.
I do think a battle is unlikely this season though
Dorne is still dull I really hope Doran has an alternative plan we hear next week
The dany stuff was fine
Also did anyone else note greyscale Jorah touched Dany, then she touched missandrei in very clear moments....Would be a nice little development Dany becomes a transport for the disease. Maybe I'm over thinking it though
For me it is that great. It's all about opinions i suppose.... but if he has that many fans it's because he has to be a good character.
I hope Brienne just kills Ramsay herself. I hate the idea of needing Stannis.
I REALLY don't like what they've done to Stannis' character...
In episode 7 when Melisandre suggested burning Shireen he said "Shes my dauther. Get OUT!"
and now he's all like " hey listen shireen i dont wanna do this but yeah you know D&D & GRRM needs to shock ppl so lets burn u lol"
why in seven hells would anyone save theon? kill the bastard.
I see what you mean but im not discounting Shireen being sacrificed in the books until I read them...what, ten years from now? Lol
Why not? He needs saving. At least he is remourceful. If Sansa forgives him, he deserves a second chance.
Goes to show how rigid he is. He believes this course of action is the right one and he's taking it. And there is nothing to say he cant have another child in the future. He's still a relatively young man. I guess i should have said family means nothing to him.
There wont be a king left when this is done. I guess that leaves Dany lol
While I really REALLY don't like what Stannis did, I have to look on the factors that forced him to make this decision. Stannis is extremely stubborn, he refuses to give up and even if he stays at the Wall, him and his army will starve to death and it would exhaust the Night's Watch's supplies.
Ramsay has just destroyed his food supplies and a lot of horses, which means that unless he does something, they will starve and die anyway.
So yeah, it was a combination of his sheer stubbornness and the extreme desperate situation that made him do this horrible choice. You can sorta understand his reasoning, but I am no longer rooting for this guy. Sacrificing your own child for power, just goes far beyond my moral limits.
Hehe yeah, that is what I thought as well at the end. How will her "friends" get out of the Pit alive on their own?
Matter of fact - they will. they are alive in the preview for next episode.
I guess the son's of the harpye didn't want to risk their own lives anymore after Daeny left. Drogon killed a good part of the son's....
Welp, The Stannis hype train has officially been derailed
Stannis said himself that he murdered his brother. He knows what he did.
I want to see Davos' reaction so badly. One could say he was more of a father to Shireen than Stannis.
Will he still serve him?
Poor Ser Onion Knight...
I'm imagining him coming back to the camp, looking for Shireen to give her the female wooden stag toy he promised :c
Everyone has flaws in the books and the show nobody is perfect and that is what makes it great. And all characters have fanboys or fanatics in some cases but the fact is that Stannis would not do this in the books.
Saying it doesn't make it so. Just because he felt that he murdered his brother it doesn't mean he actually did. His feelings clouded his judgement on the matter. Yes, Stannis has feelings.
I really hope GRRM makes Stannis burn Shireen in TWOW just to see the reaction of these who bitch about it being "out of character".
I see some people blaming Davos for not insisting to take Shireen, but I don't think he REALLY thought Stannis would stoop so low as to kill his own daughter.
He wanted to bring her to Castle Black because he felt that a battlefield wasn't a safe place for Shireen, but I don't think he expected that the danger really came from Stannis himself.
He does genuinely feel that Stannis is a good man at heart. He's said that before. If he risked so much to save Gendry from that fate with the Red Woman, a boy he hardly knew, do you think he wouldn't try his hardest to save Shireen, of all people?
Now I hope that Brienne kills Stannis.
I kinda see a bit of humanity in it. There where a lot of scenes in the episode where they showed Stannis troops being in a horrible state.
He wanted to save all of his Men, so he sacrifaces Shireen for 5000 Men.
I got them tears thou
God dammit Stannis! I trusted you! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiZNSzWIaLo
I think he did it because he saw that he was going to lose the war if things continued to deteriorate not because his heart bled for his suffering men.
It was stated pretty clearly in the inside the episode that he plans on it happening and that it was his idea, not D&D's. Wonder if the reason they've made him so much more unlikeable in the show is because they knew he was going to do this....
Worst family BBQ ever
This was my first time having to wait for the final episode of a season so I'm sitting here like FUUUUUCCCCCKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!
I think some people, after all this time, still get upset when they see things they don't want. Especially when the show doesn't have the books as cover anymore. It's happened already with with the infamous Cersei and Jamie scene in season 4, the Ramsey and Sansa scene that got everyone ruffled earlier, and then this scene with Shireen.
I don't know, it all seems reasonable to me. Different media requires different pacing and creative choices, and I think the showrunners did a great job at getting through book material that should have been skipped in a time jump anyway (and yes, I am digging at book 4 and to a lesser extent 5 here).
Nah man, Littlefinger for president.
[removed]
For maximum feels:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYvY87kx3QU
Fuck
Wow....some fans...
They would have all died if Stannis haven't done what he needed to do.
I guess its a matter of perception. He and i feel he murdered his brother and you dont.