Kenny is a guy you either love or you hate. I've always liked him, i would do the same thing with some of the decisions Kenny made in order to survive. Some of you wouldn't.
No, I'm not even talking about Crazy Lilly. Non-Crazy Lilly was horribly unsympathetic. She wanted the kick the group out of the drug store at first, yelled at Kenny, Mark, and Lee for saving Ben and Mr.Parker/Travis... She is a clear pragmatist who looks out for her Dad and herself.
Also, she didn't care for Clementine more than anyone else in the group. Carley seemed to care for Clementine quite a bit, and Ben was Clem's friend. Really, she didn't interact with Clem at all on screen besides giving her hair thingies, although that was technically also off screen.
Saving the group from bandits isn't sympathetic either, it's self-defense.
You are right, she can try to be nicer, but I just generally found her to be an unpleasant person.
Saying Lilly was not at all sympathetic seems a bit unfair to me... I mean, she's a crazy bitch, sure, but it's not like that's all she was.… more She had plenty of sympathetic scenes like when she saves the group from the bandits, can save Lee twice from the St. Johns, cares for Clem more than almost anyone else in the group, can reassure Lee that killing the senator doesn't make him a bad man...
Of course, killing Doug/Carley pretty much overrules those redeeming points, but I still don't think it's fair to say she was not AT ALL sympathetic, just like how saying Kenny sucks is a bit much.
Yeah, But Kenny didn't kill Duck after he was bitten. And let his mom held him in the arms. What if he turned and bit his mom and Clem? That's why I don't like Kenny. When bad things happened to him, he expected people to understand and support him. What about other people's feeling? Nah, my family is the most important.
Just saying, he probably saved the life of Lee, Clem and Lily by killing Larry. Let's say there was a 50 % chance of Larry surviving the hea… morert attack. Would you have risked the life of 3 people (including a child) to save one man, who was already old and sick on top of everything? I would have probably done the same thing as Kenny, if I had the balls to smash a man's head in.
Well, leaving the Motor Inn was actually a good idea and he brought up some good points, it was Lilly being a bit irrational in that situation, but yeah, he does not take well to criticism of his plans.
To be honest, I never really liked how this argument is so often framed in terms of Kenny vs. Lilly. I get the impression that whenever I criticize Kenny, people automatically assume I'm a Lilly supporter. But you know who the one person in Season 1 I hated even more than Kenny is? Lilly.
The whole debate over which one of them was going to be the leader never really amounted to anything anyway. As of Episode 3, Lilly had left the group and Kenny had pretty much fallen apart. Even if a group that small actually needs a leader, which is something I never really bought to begin with, Kenny and Lilly were probably the two worst candidates for the job as far as I'm concerned. They were both terrible leaders, and I'm not sure why people would want to side with either of them.
All right, why I think Kenny has as many fans as he does is for a few reasons
1. (the big one) The whole Lilly vs Kenny debate during those… more long waits between Ep.1, 2 and 3, really tempered people's alliances. People who sided with Kenny fought for him them and it made them think that they were in it together against a common foe. After Lilly's departure, they were now confident it was the "correct" decision and thus continued to support him because it seems like they were victorious.
2. Sort of the same as 1, but a grudge against Lilly for either her first scene or her last scene. For her first scene, she disagreed with letting the group inside and some people just carried that with them, for her last scene, well she killed someone and so people turned to Kenny, as he was her greatest opponent.
3. His family died, his boorish behavior beforehand was excused by his supporters because he opposed Lilly, afterwards, it equally was excused because his family had just died
When you're trying to save Shawn and Duck on Hershel's farm, Kenny runs off as soon as Duck is safe, leaving Shawn to die. He could have handed Duck off to Katjaa once he was safe and helped Lee save Shawn, but he didn't. Once his kid was safe, he was done helping.
He's always whining about who's going to be "in charge" instead of just getting things done like Lee.
Killing Larry. Yes, I know people will try to make the argument that this was justified because Larry was about to turn. But even if that was the case, he could have given Lee and Lilly a couple of minutes to at least try reviving him before dropping the salt lick. Heck, at least take a minute to check for a pulse. We have yet to see anyone in the series turn that quickly. The fact that he didn't even do that much really hurts his case that killing Larry was a necessity.
At the end of Episode 2, he doesn't even acknowledge that Lee risked his life to save Kenny's family. He just goes, "No, I saved them!" When all he did was bash in a team mate's head, run off on his own, and get shot. While Lee was the one who saved Katjaa and Duck from Brenda and Andy.
He then spends the next few episodes complaining about how "you don't have my back" just because Lee decided not to help him murder a man.
When Lee gets trapped under a door with a bunch of walkers on top of it, Kenny leaves him to die. And it wasn't even a moment of panic either. He looked back, stopped for a second to consider the situation, and made a conscious decision to let Lee die. Because of a disagreement.
The one time Lee left Clementine with him, he let her just wander outside without supervision. What was he doing instead that was more important than watching Clementine to make sure she didn't get eaten by zombies? He was sitting around the house getting drunk.
He tries to get Lee to drop Ben to his death. Again, for no other reason than simply that he personally doesn't like the guy.
When we meet him again in 202, he talks like he regrets trying to save Ben in Episode 5. And that was the one time in the whole series he actually did something good for someone else. It was the one thing that redeemed the character for all the other terrible things he had done, and he's trying to back away from it now.
He immediately starts trying to pick a fight with Luke and Nick for no reason.
He endangers the lives of everyone in the ski lodge by firing into a room full of hostages. And as a direct result of that decision, Walter is killed, and Clementine is taken prisoner by Carver.
He's kind of ignorant. He thinks Lee can pick locks because he's "urban" and starts calling Luke and Nick gay as soon as he meets them.
There are probably other reasons not to like Kenny that I forgot, but those are just off the top of my head. While any one of those incidents by itself might be something I could look over, when taken together, they paint a picture of someone who is belligerent, untrustworthy, and doesn't care about anyone but himself.
The boat is a good plan temporarily. If they get some fishing equipment the group could probably live off fish and other things they might catch in the ocean, or in a large body of water. But it would be hard to live on a boat, especially a small one with more than 2 or 3 people. It would probably not be very comfortable to sit in a boat all day and sleeping on it would be even less comfortable, plus there's the risk of sunburn. Maybe if it was a big boat, but I don't think it was very big from what I remember seeing of it. Plus they would have had to ditch a group member. But with a big enough boat it seems like a great plan.
Look I think most can agree that Nick and Luke are bad fucking ass but for those few, very few, who do not agree. I respect you. here is a tribute to Kenny's poor 'Stache. as a peace offering. from us to you.
Good job pal, these are excellent points. whenever I bring up some of these good points the Kenny fan-boys just instantly disregard them and just say "Well Kenny lost his family a few years ago so its alright for his outburts." however people seem to forget that Kenny didn't have to see Katja die and in most peoples play throughs he didn't even have to watch duck die and even now hes got a new girlfriend or maybe he even considers her to be a wife so clearly he has moved on so there is no excuse for him being a complete ass wipe however Nick on the other hand had to shoot his own mother, never had a good father and watched his Uncle, the most important person in his life get killed and on top of that he's all alone and everyone gives him such a hard time not to mention how insanely terrible Nick feels or accidentally killing Matthew, i mean he even risked his own life just to apologize to Walter. people really need to learn to be more forgiving in this game and not rooting for the death of someone just because they messed up once when trying to do the right thing.
Sure. Where to begin?
* When you're trying to save Shawn and Duck on Hershel's farm, Kenny runs off as soon as Duck is safe, leaving S… morehawn to die. He could have handed Duck off to Katjaa once he was safe and helped Lee save Shawn, but he didn't. Once his kid was safe, he was done helping.
* He's always whining about who's going to be "in charge" instead of just getting things done like Lee.
* Killing Larry. Yes, I know people will try to make the argument that this was justified because Larry was about to turn. But even if that was the case, he could have given Lee and Lilly a couple of minutes to at least try reviving him before dropping the salt lick. Heck, at least take a minute to check for a pulse. We have yet to see anyone in the series turn that quickly. The fact that he didn't even do that much really hurts his case that killing Larry was a necessity.
* At the end of Episode 2, he doesn't even acknowledge that Lee risk… [view original content]
I don't know, I was replaying season 1 before episode 2 came out; I still felt myself siding with Lilly most of the time - basically, as she says, she's the one making the tough decisions nobody else wants to and she takes all the hate for it.
No, I'm not even talking about Crazy Lilly. Non-Crazy Lilly was horribly unsympathetic. She wanted the kick the group out of the drug store … moreat first, yelled at Kenny, Mark, and Lee for saving Ben and Mr.Parker/Travis... She is a clear pragmatist who looks out for her Dad and herself.
Also, she didn't care for Clementine more than anyone else in the group. Carley seemed to care for Clementine quite a bit, and Ben was Clem's friend. Really, she didn't interact with Clem at all on screen besides giving her hair thingies, although that was technically also off screen.
Saving the group from bandits isn't sympathetic either, it's self-defense.
You are right, she can try to be nicer, but I just generally found her to be an unpleasant person.
I don't know, I was replaying season 1 before episode 2 came out; I still felt myself siding with Lilly most of the time - basically, as she says, she's the one making the tough decisions nobody else wants to and she takes all the hate for it.
Still, the way he went about it was wrong, putting more focus on the boat than anything else. Personally, I thought that that ski Lodge wouldn't have been too bad for a long-term base, a boat wouldn't be too useful, like you said, it can't be a place to live, so you'd need to find somewhere to live on the water. A Marine center?
The boat is a good plan temporarily. If they get some fishing equipment the group could probably live off fish and other things they might … morecatch in the ocean, or in a large body of water. But it would be hard to live on a boat, especially a small one with more than 2 or 3 people. It would probably not be very comfortable to sit in a boat all day and sleeping on it would be even less comfortable, plus there's the risk of sunburn. Maybe if it was a big boat, but I don't think it was very big from what I remember seeing of it. Plus they would have had to ditch a group member. But with a big enough boat it seems like a great plan.
Yes and no, you don't see people lining up to take her job, and she has to take a lot of the hate for things like rationing.
Though I wouldn't play up her pragmatism too much, I give you the part about getting mad for letting Ben and the others in, but I think leaving or not leaving the motel is a completely amoral decision. I'd have to watch the scene again, but she was mostly mad about opening the gate and firing the gun at the drugstore (and then the initial fight when they thought Duck was bit). Maybe 'sympathetic' might not the right word, but she does take a lot of flak for doing things other people wouldn't want to do themselves.
Of course, Lilly might be nicer because I (the character) am on her side, and more sympathetic to me because I (the person) tend to agree with her, or at least appreciate her rationale.
The moral choice can get people killed - like Shel's bit in 400 Days. If you let the guy go instead of killing him, Boyd ends up dead. Although I think most of the time the moral choice is not scripted to be a problem. For instance, letting Ben in doesn't result in anybody starving. Not killing him in episode 4 also doesn't lead to another fatal screw up. In episode 2 I killed the first St. John brother because I didn't want him to still be behind me when I was going to house, but no matter what choice I make he won't (granted the bear trap may have something to do with it...).
I kicked Kenny's ass on the train in season 1. He's still a dick though I really wanted to save Walter but he just shoots someone out of no where in a hostage situation. Might have to kick his ass again as Clem this season if he keeps being a dick.
What are you talking about kenny did see his wife (if you said lee should do it) and his son (considering the majority didn't leave duck to turn) die
Just wanted to clarify that
Good job pal, these are excellent points. whenever I bring up some of these good points the Kenny fan-boys just instantly disregard them and… more just say "Well Kenny lost his family a few years ago so its alright for his outburts." however people seem to forget that Kenny didn't have to see Katja die and in most peoples play throughs he didn't even have to watch duck die and even now hes got a new girlfriend or maybe he even considers her to be a wife so clearly he has moved on so there is no excuse for him being a complete ass wipe however Nick on the other hand had to shoot his own mother, never had a good father and watched his Uncle, the most important person in his life get killed and on top of that he's all alone and everyone gives him such a hard time not to mention how insanely terrible Nick feels or accidentally killing Matthew, i mean he even risked his own life just to apologize to Walter. people really need to learn to be more forgivi… [view original content]
Actually, Kenny wanted it so that everyone could make decisions, which I agree with. single leaders are good when they don't lean one way or the other too much. I don't think Lilly was a good leader, because even though she was making smart decisions, when it came to group issues, she wanted the more pragmatic choice, and you can't speak for everyone like that. If there's going to be one leader, then they should make the decisions, yes, but they can't speak for everyone on a group matter.
Also, at the drugstore, she was mad about the gate being opened. She was mad that Glenn and Carley opened it to help Lee, Clem, Kenny and his family. She would have rather left Lee and the rest out there to be eaten.
And true, the moral choice can get people killed. That's why it's harder. Lilly thinks she's making the "tough decisions" by leaving people to die, that's not right, helping people and putting your own group at risk is a much more difficult choice to make. I will give her that people had to right to hate on her about the way she handled the food... Unless of course the "lottery" that Mark mentioned included the children. The good decision would be to give the kids food, and then put the adults in the "lottery".
Yes and no, you don't see people lining up to take her job, and she has to take a lot of the hate for things like rationing.
Though I wou… moreldn't play up her pragmatism too much, I give you the part about getting mad for letting Ben and the others in, but I think leaving or not leaving the motel is a completely amoral decision. I'd have to watch the scene again, but she was mostly mad about opening the gate and firing the gun at the drugstore (and then the initial fight when they thought Duck was bit). Maybe 'sympathetic' might not the right word, but she does take a lot of flak for doing things other people wouldn't want to do themselves.
Of course, Lilly might be nicer because I (the character) am on her side, and more sympathetic to me because I (the person) tend to agree with her, or at least appreciate her rationale.
The moral choice can get people killed - like Shel's bit in 400 Days. If you let the guy go instead of killing him, … [view original content]
Sure. Where to begin?
* When you're trying to save Shawn and Duck on Hershel's farm, Kenny runs off as soon as Duck is safe, leaving S… morehawn to die. He could have handed Duck off to Katjaa once he was safe and helped Lee save Shawn, but he didn't. Once his kid was safe, he was done helping.
* He's always whining about who's going to be "in charge" instead of just getting things done like Lee.
* Killing Larry. Yes, I know people will try to make the argument that this was justified because Larry was about to turn. But even if that was the case, he could have given Lee and Lilly a couple of minutes to at least try reviving him before dropping the salt lick. Heck, at least take a minute to check for a pulse. We have yet to see anyone in the series turn that quickly. The fact that he didn't even do that much really hurts his case that killing Larry was a necessity.
* At the end of Episode 2, he doesn't even acknowledge that Lee risk… [view original content]
Well, I'm not sure I'd go as far as to say that his family dying shouldn't affect him. I think even though he found Sarita, he clearly hasn't moved on. I don't think that's something you ever just get over. I could have added Kenny's behavior on the train to my above list too. But I specifically left that one out because frankly, who among us wouldn't be a little irrational when faced with the death of a child?
It's not that I don't get why Kenny does the things that he does. I do. And that's why I still think he's an interesting character even if, as a person, I find his actions to be monstrous. But the thing is, you can understand why someone acts the way that they do and still not like or trust them for acting that way. So I do give Kenny a little slack for what he's gone through. On the other hand, to be fair, a lot of the terrible things that Kenny's done happened before his family died. So what was his excuse then?
I do agree with your general point though that people should probably be more forgiving in this game. I never really got all of the Ben hate myself. Nick does seem to pretty much be a screw-up, but he is at least a well-intentioned screw-up.
Good job pal, these are excellent points. whenever I bring up some of these good points the Kenny fan-boys just instantly disregard them and… more just say "Well Kenny lost his family a few years ago so its alright for his outburts." however people seem to forget that Kenny didn't have to see Katja die and in most peoples play throughs he didn't even have to watch duck die and even now hes got a new girlfriend or maybe he even considers her to be a wife so clearly he has moved on so there is no excuse for him being a complete ass wipe however Nick on the other hand had to shoot his own mother, never had a good father and watched his Uncle, the most important person in his life get killed and on top of that he's all alone and everyone gives him such a hard time not to mention how insanely terrible Nick feels or accidentally killing Matthew, i mean he even risked his own life just to apologize to Walter. people really need to learn to be more forgivi… [view original content]
Let me ask you something, what's the most important thing is this world? What's the one thing a guy would walk hundreds of miles just to get back? A moustache/beard, it's a tough world out there without facial hair you can trust.
Kenny has a flawed personality but he's definitely a family man. I know people in life like him: Cowardly, manipulative, ignorant. But the lengths they would go for family maybe even more than Kenny. Family can make a man different, and that's the main theme of The Walking Dead.
u must be out of ur mind or stupid. kenny is a douchebag to lee but the thing is genius it makes the story interesting. it gives u tough decisions and it also gives u problems. i like kenny mostly bcause he always backs up what he says like against lilly and lee. he has funny jokes too. the luke and nick thing and lee that was just telltale tryin to be funny so stop being a doucghebag about it. so yeah theres my answer
He doesn't handle situations ideally most of the time, yes. A boat CAN be a place to live, it just has to be a big enough boat to easily hold your whole group and have space to move around and somewhere to sleep. You'd also need fishing equipment so you could have a lasting food supply which would be very useful. You also need a way to stop your whole group from getting very sunburned. If you manage to cover all of that though, a boat would be pretty good, the safest and most reliable option in my opinion.
Still, the way he went about it was wrong, putting more focus on the boat than anything else. Personally, I thought that that ski Lodge woul… moredn't have been too bad for a long-term base, a boat wouldn't be too useful, like you said, it can't be a place to live, so you'd need to find somewhere to live on the water. A Marine center?
let me ask YOU something magdesky. how the hell would u help shawn with no weapons and no way to get the tractor of him? kenny is the only one with the balls to step up to lily and tell her she isnt capable of being incharge. would YOU have the balls to do that? u must hv hearing problems kid remember what kenny said? (did u see how fast that poor bastsard turned at the motel) exactly he was worried cause at the same time his wife and kid were with some canibals. what if that was YOUR wife and kid and u just got shot for ur family just so someone else could save them, wouldn't u be pissed? the next 2 results u were just being a bitch to kenny before. KENNY DIDNT KNOW WERE CLEMENTINE WAS, ONLY BEN KNEW IDIOT and he left her with BEN. ben got his family killed, wouldnt u be super pissed? he tried to do something impossible by saving ben and if he just took him out and left with lee kenny would have been with omid and christa and he relizes that. he was just talking to them and he was gettin pissed at mostly nick for interfering in his conversation. walter gave up and wanted to be shot bcause of mathew and THATS WHAT LILY DID AT YHE MOTEL GENIUS AND NOW UR GIVING KENNY HELL 4 DOING THE SAME THING ? those were JOKES smartass.
good points my ass. he was tryin to protect his family and now sarita and i just pretty much mostly proved u wrong with ur crappy excuses and u wanna say that he doesnt care about any1 but himself? he clearly cares about clem, sarita and his family before they died
Sure. Where to begin?
* When you're trying to save Shawn and Duck on Hershel's farm, Kenny runs off as soon as Duck is safe, leaving S… morehawn to die. He could have handed Duck off to Katjaa once he was safe and helped Lee save Shawn, but he didn't. Once his kid was safe, he was done helping.
* He's always whining about who's going to be "in charge" instead of just getting things done like Lee.
* Killing Larry. Yes, I know people will try to make the argument that this was justified because Larry was about to turn. But even if that was the case, he could have given Lee and Lilly a couple of minutes to at least try reviving him before dropping the salt lick. Heck, at least take a minute to check for a pulse. We have yet to see anyone in the series turn that quickly. The fact that he didn't even do that much really hurts his case that killing Larry was a necessity.
* At the end of Episode 2, he doesn't even acknowledge that Lee risk… [view original content]
let me ask YOU something magdesky. how the hell would u help shawn with no weapons and no way to get the tractor of him?
Lee couldn't move the tractor by himself. That doesn't make it the immovable object. With another hand, it's very possible that they could have gotten it off him. Or at the very least, one of them could have held off the walkers while the other worked on freeing Shawn.
KENNY DIDNT KNOW WERE CLEMENTINE WAS, ONLY BEN KNEW IDIOT and he left her with BEN.
That's incorrect. When Lee can't find Clementine, it's when he returns to the house after going to the docks with Kenny. Clementine followed them there. Lee got separated from the group. So prior to that, he had last left Clementine with Kenny and Molly. When he gets back to the house, Kenny is sitting around getting drunk and says he doesn't know where Clementine is. I mean, that part you're right about. Kenny didn't know where Clementine was. That's exactly the problem. He clearly wasn't worried about Clem's well-being.
walter gave up and wanted to be shot bcause of mathew
What? Walter did not give up. Carver marched him out and shot him in the head after Kenny shot one of Carver's men. Yes, Walter may have just suffered a huge loss, but there was never any indication on his part that he was giving himself up to Carver willingly or that he was ready to die. That's just ridiculous.
As for your other points, like I said before, you can rationalize his actions as much as you want. I'm sure we could come up with any number of excuses for why it was okay to kill Larry or why it was okay for him to leave Lee behind. I wouldn't agree with them, but those arguments certainly exist. And if it were just one or two isolated incidents of Kenny doing something irrational, then we could probably look past it. Because hey, it's a stressful situation. That makes people do crazy things. But it's the fact that this is a consistent pattern with Kenny. He's consistently willing to kill his own team mates or leave them behind to get his way. He consistently responds to problems with thoughtless aggression. He consistently refuses to consider anyone else's well-being. And again, I understand why he acts that way. But understanding it doesn't make it okay.
I'd also like to address this point that Kenny lost his family, so that makes his outbursts okay. All right, I'm willing to cut him a little slack when he just saw his wife and child die. But he's not the only one who has lost people he cared about. Let's not forget that the very first episode shows Lee discovering that his parents are dead and being forced to kill his zombified brother himself. Plus, he's got an ex-wife out there somewhere, and even though they're not together any more, he clearly cared about her. And yet Lee is able to keep it together without killing any of his team mates. Clementine lost her parents. Then she loses Lee, who was like a father to her. And she's handling it better than Kenny ever did. Lilly watches her father's head get smashed in right in front of her eyes while she's trying to resuscitate him. Yet people aren't so forgiving of her when she loses it. Carley listened to her coworker dying on the radio. This is a world where everyone has lost somebody close to them. So do I feel bad for him? Of course. But that doesn't give him a free pass to do whatever the heck he wants.
So to sum up, no, I actually don't think you've proven any of my points my wrong. But there's no need to get so angry about it. It's just a discussion.
let me ask YOU something magdesky. how the hell would u help shawn with no weapons and no way to get the tractor of him? kenny is the only … moreone with the balls to step up to lily and tell her she isnt capable of being incharge. would YOU have the balls to do that? u must hv hearing problems kid remember what kenny said? (did u see how fast that poor bastsard turned at the motel) exactly he was worried cause at the same time his wife and kid were with some canibals. what if that was YOUR wife and kid and u just got shot for ur family just so someone else could save them, wouldn't u be pissed? the next 2 results u were just being a bitch to kenny before. KENNY DIDNT KNOW WERE CLEMENTINE WAS, ONLY BEN KNEW IDIOT and he left her with BEN. ben got his family killed, wouldnt u be super pissed? he tried to do something impossible by saving ben and if he just took him out and left with lee kenny would have been with omid and christa and he relizes… [view original content]
im not gettin angry its just ppl go ow kenny fanboy. i hate that bcause im just sayin season 1 wouldnt be as good without kennys character. ppl see kenny as a guy who is an asshole to lee but I like kenny because kenny is unpredictable sometimes like keeping a girl as zombiebate and trying to save ben/christa from an impossible situation. so yeah. oh and u cant blame kenny for what happened to clementine in the yard cause he probably got wasted and clementine told BEN she was goin to the yard so yeah molly christa or kenny didnt know where she was just ben.
let me ask YOU something magdesky. how the hell would u help shawn with no weapons and no way to get the tractor of him?
Lee couldn'… moret move the tractor by himself. That doesn't make it the immovable object. With another hand, it's very possible that they could have gotten it off him. Or at the very least, one of them could have held off the walkers while the other worked on freeing Shawn.
KENNY DIDNT KNOW WERE CLEMENTINE WAS, ONLY BEN KNEW IDIOT and he left her with BEN.
That's incorrect. When Lee can't find Clementine, it's when he returns to the house after going to the docks with Kenny. Clementine followed them there. Lee got separated from the group. So prior to that, he had last left Clementine with Kenny and Molly. When he gets back to the house, Kenny is sitting around getting drunk and says he doesn't know where Clementine is. I mean, that part you're right about. Kenny didn't know where Clementine was. … [view original content]
im not gettin angry its just ppl go ow kenny fanboy. i hate that bcause im just sayin season 1 wouldnt be as good without kennys character.… more ppl see kenny as a guy who is an asshole to lee but I like kenny because kenny is unpredictable sometimes like keeping a girl as zombiebate and trying to save ben/christa from an impossible situation. so yeah. oh and u cant blame kenny for what happened to clementine in the yard cause he probably got wasted and clementine told BEN she was goin to the yard so yeah molly christa or kenny didnt know where she was just ben.
I think it really has to be a Kenny vs. Lilly thing, if you dont like Kenny, that doesnt automatically mean youre a Lilly supporter. But if youre a big Kenny fan, youre almost definitely a Lilly hater and people bonded with Kenny over that hate. Kenny does very little else to endear himself to Lee, the only way I think you would really like him without just hating Lilly is that you happen to agree with everything he does, because if you ever disagree, he shows how little regard he has for your opinion.
To be honest, I never really liked how this argument is so often framed in terms of Kenny vs. Lilly. I get the impression that whenever I c… moreriticize Kenny, people automatically assume I'm a Lilly supporter. But you know who the one person in Season 1 I hated even more than Kenny is? Lilly.
The whole debate over which one of them was going to be the leader never really amounted to anything anyway. As of Episode 3, Lilly had left the group and Kenny had pretty much fallen apart. Even if a group that small actually needs a leader, which is something I never really bought to begin with, Kenny and Lilly were probably the two worst candidates for the job as far as I'm concerned. They were both terrible leaders, and I'm not sure why people would want to side with either of them.
Well, the question was why people don't like Kenny. Ben and Molly are another topic. Yeah, I was pretty fed up with Ben too at that moment. But part of that is on Kenny too. He was the last person Lee had left Clementine with. He shouldn't have to be told that when you have a little kid in a situation like that, you keep track of where they are. And if he were a responsible adult who cared about anyone else in the group, he would have done just that instead of sitting around getting drunk.
I actually do agree with you though that Kenny is a good character who made the first season more interesting. But that's not because he's a good person. I think what made him an interesting character is precisely because he's so often doing the wrong thing and trying to push Lee to go along with him, like the devil on his shoulder. He's kind of the Shane to Lee's Rick.
im not gettin angry its just ppl go ow kenny fanboy. i hate that bcause im just sayin season 1 wouldnt be as good without kennys character.… more ppl see kenny as a guy who is an asshole to lee but I like kenny because kenny is unpredictable sometimes like keeping a girl as zombiebate and trying to save ben/christa from an impossible situation. so yeah. oh and u cant blame kenny for what happened to clementine in the yard cause he probably got wasted and clementine told BEN she was goin to the yard so yeah molly christa or kenny didnt know where she was just ben.
You cant convince him of anything, ever. If you ever disagree with him, he will immediately berate you, its never a discussion. Its impossible to have a rational discussion with him, either a one way engagement that Kenny dictates and you blithely agree with, or an argument that Kenny doesnt give you an inch on.
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Kenny is a guy you either love or you hate. I've always liked him, i would do the same thing with some of the decisions Kenny made in order to survive. Some of you wouldn't.
No, I'm not even talking about Crazy Lilly. Non-Crazy Lilly was horribly unsympathetic. She wanted the kick the group out of the drug store at first, yelled at Kenny, Mark, and Lee for saving Ben and Mr.Parker/Travis... She is a clear pragmatist who looks out for her Dad and herself.
Also, she didn't care for Clementine more than anyone else in the group. Carley seemed to care for Clementine quite a bit, and Ben was Clem's friend. Really, she didn't interact with Clem at all on screen besides giving her hair thingies, although that was technically also off screen.
Saving the group from bandits isn't sympathetic either, it's self-defense.
You are right, she can try to be nicer, but I just generally found her to be an unpleasant person.
Can someone explain why people don't like Kenny?
Yeah, But Kenny didn't kill Duck after he was bitten. And let his mom held him in the arms. What if he turned and bit his mom and Clem? That's why I don't like Kenny. When bad things happened to him, he expected people to understand and support him. What about other people's feeling? Nah, my family is the most important.
He doesnt respect anyones opinion but his own
We both know that this isn't true, he may be very hard to convince but once you convinced him he's the most loyal bro you could possible ask for.
I think all of his plans are good plans, but he really doesn't take criticism to them well. d:
To be honest, I never really liked how this argument is so often framed in terms of Kenny vs. Lilly. I get the impression that whenever I criticize Kenny, people automatically assume I'm a Lilly supporter. But you know who the one person in Season 1 I hated even more than Kenny is? Lilly.
The whole debate over which one of them was going to be the leader never really amounted to anything anyway. As of Episode 3, Lilly had left the group and Kenny had pretty much fallen apart. Even if a group that small actually needs a leader, which is something I never really bought to begin with, Kenny and Lilly were probably the two worst candidates for the job as far as I'm concerned. They were both terrible leaders, and I'm not sure why people would want to side with either of them.
Wellington is definitely a good plan, not so sure about the boat. At least, not the way he went about it.
Sure. Where to begin?
There are probably other reasons not to like Kenny that I forgot, but those are just off the top of my head. While any one of those incidents by itself might be something I could look over, when taken together, they paint a picture of someone who is belligerent, untrustworthy, and doesn't care about anyone but himself.
The boat is a good plan temporarily. If they get some fishing equipment the group could probably live off fish and other things they might catch in the ocean, or in a large body of water. But it would be hard to live on a boat, especially a small one with more than 2 or 3 people. It would probably not be very comfortable to sit in a boat all day and sleeping on it would be even less comfortable, plus there's the risk of sunburn. Maybe if it was a big boat, but I don't think it was very big from what I remember seeing of it. Plus they would have had to ditch a group member. But with a big enough boat it seems like a great plan.
I'm really liking this thread. Somebody pass the popcorn please?
From you to us? That's strange, because I know the guy who made that video. He's called
But it's the thought that counts. Thanks for your sympathy.
Good job pal, these are excellent points. whenever I bring up some of these good points the Kenny fan-boys just instantly disregard them and just say "Well Kenny lost his family a few years ago so its alright for his outburts." however people seem to forget that Kenny didn't have to see Katja die and in most peoples play throughs he didn't even have to watch duck die and even now hes got a new girlfriend or maybe he even considers her to be a wife so clearly he has moved on so there is no excuse for him being a complete ass wipe however Nick on the other hand had to shoot his own mother, never had a good father and watched his Uncle, the most important person in his life get killed and on top of that he's all alone and everyone gives him such a hard time not to mention how insanely terrible Nick feels or accidentally killing Matthew, i mean he even risked his own life just to apologize to Walter. people really need to learn to be more forgiving in this game and not rooting for the death of someone just because they messed up once when trying to do the right thing.
Yeah I know I didn't make it lol i just used it to make a joke
That's fine. Just tryin' to make it clear to the other fellas in this thread.
I don't know, I was replaying season 1 before episode 2 came out; I still felt myself siding with Lilly most of the time - basically, as she says, she's the one making the tough decisions nobody else wants to and she takes all the hate for it.
That sentence "I mean his so obviously ignorant and such" really made me laugh.
It's much harder to make a moral decision in the world of The Walking Dead than it is to make a pragmatic decision.
Still, the way he went about it was wrong, putting more focus on the boat than anything else. Personally, I thought that that ski Lodge wouldn't have been too bad for a long-term base, a boat wouldn't be too useful, like you said, it can't be a place to live, so you'd need to find somewhere to live on the water. A Marine center?
Coming back and saving my ass in the drug store is a debt I can never repay.
I owe him.
Yes and no, you don't see people lining up to take her job, and she has to take a lot of the hate for things like rationing.
Though I wouldn't play up her pragmatism too much, I give you the part about getting mad for letting Ben and the others in, but I think leaving or not leaving the motel is a completely amoral decision. I'd have to watch the scene again, but she was mostly mad about opening the gate and firing the gun at the drugstore (and then the initial fight when they thought Duck was bit). Maybe 'sympathetic' might not the right word, but she does take a lot of flak for doing things other people wouldn't want to do themselves.
Of course, Lilly might be nicer because I (the character) am on her side, and more sympathetic to me because I (the person) tend to agree with her, or at least appreciate her rationale.
The moral choice can get people killed - like Shel's bit in 400 Days. If you let the guy go instead of killing him, Boyd ends up dead. Although I think most of the time the moral choice is not scripted to be a problem. For instance, letting Ben in doesn't result in anybody starving. Not killing him in episode 4 also doesn't lead to another fatal screw up. In episode 2 I killed the first St. John brother because I didn't want him to still be behind me when I was going to house, but no matter what choice I make he won't (granted the bear trap may have something to do with it...).
How do you propose to kick Kenny's butt when you're playing as a little girl?
What are you talking about kenny did see his wife (if you said lee should do it) and his son (considering the majority didn't leave duck to turn) die
Just wanted to clarify that
Actually, Kenny wanted it so that everyone could make decisions, which I agree with. single leaders are good when they don't lean one way or the other too much. I don't think Lilly was a good leader, because even though she was making smart decisions, when it came to group issues, she wanted the more pragmatic choice, and you can't speak for everyone like that. If there's going to be one leader, then they should make the decisions, yes, but they can't speak for everyone on a group matter.
Also, at the drugstore, she was mad about the gate being opened. She was mad that Glenn and Carley opened it to help Lee, Clem, Kenny and his family. She would have rather left Lee and the rest out there to be eaten.
And true, the moral choice can get people killed. That's why it's harder. Lilly thinks she's making the "tough decisions" by leaving people to die, that's not right, helping people and putting your own group at risk is a much more difficult choice to make. I will give her that people had to right to hate on her about the way she handled the food... Unless of course the "lottery" that Mark mentioned included the children. The good decision would be to give the kids food, and then put the adults in the "lottery".
You nailed it 100%.
Well, I'm not sure I'd go as far as to say that his family dying shouldn't affect him. I think even though he found Sarita, he clearly hasn't moved on. I don't think that's something you ever just get over. I could have added Kenny's behavior on the train to my above list too. But I specifically left that one out because frankly, who among us wouldn't be a little irrational when faced with the death of a child?
It's not that I don't get why Kenny does the things that he does. I do. And that's why I still think he's an interesting character even if, as a person, I find his actions to be monstrous. But the thing is, you can understand why someone acts the way that they do and still not like or trust them for acting that way. So I do give Kenny a little slack for what he's gone through. On the other hand, to be fair, a lot of the terrible things that Kenny's done happened before his family died. So what was his excuse then?
I do agree with your general point though that people should probably be more forgiving in this game. I never really got all of the Ben hate myself. Nick does seem to pretty much be a screw-up, but he is at least a well-intentioned screw-up.
popcorn makes you fat.
Let me ask you something, what's the most important thing is this world? What's the one thing a guy would walk hundreds of miles just to get back? A moustache/beard, it's a tough world out there without facial hair you can trust.
Kenny has a flawed personality but he's definitely a family man. I know people in life like him: Cowardly, manipulative, ignorant. But the lengths they would go for family maybe even more than Kenny. Family can make a man different, and that's the main theme of The Walking Dead.
As a little girl a pipe to the back of his head when he's making a dick move then beat some more sense into him maybe. DONT UNDERESTIMATE THE CLEMY!
u must be out of ur mind or stupid. kenny is a douchebag to lee but the thing is genius it makes the story interesting. it gives u tough decisions and it also gives u problems. i like kenny mostly bcause he always backs up what he says like against lilly and lee. he has funny jokes too. the luke and nick thing and lee that was just telltale tryin to be funny so stop being a doucghebag about it. so yeah theres my answer
He doesn't handle situations ideally most of the time, yes. A boat CAN be a place to live, it just has to be a big enough boat to easily hold your whole group and have space to move around and somewhere to sleep. You'd also need fishing equipment so you could have a lasting food supply which would be very useful. You also need a way to stop your whole group from getting very sunburned. If you manage to cover all of that though, a boat would be pretty good, the safest and most reliable option in my opinion.
let me ask YOU something magdesky. how the hell would u help shawn with no weapons and no way to get the tractor of him? kenny is the only one with the balls to step up to lily and tell her she isnt capable of being incharge. would YOU have the balls to do that? u must hv hearing problems kid remember what kenny said? (did u see how fast that poor bastsard turned at the motel) exactly he was worried cause at the same time his wife and kid were with some canibals. what if that was YOUR wife and kid and u just got shot for ur family just so someone else could save them, wouldn't u be pissed? the next 2 results u were just being a bitch to kenny before. KENNY DIDNT KNOW WERE CLEMENTINE WAS, ONLY BEN KNEW IDIOT and he left her with BEN. ben got his family killed, wouldnt u be super pissed? he tried to do something impossible by saving ben and if he just took him out and left with lee kenny would have been with omid and christa and he relizes that. he was just talking to them and he was gettin pissed at mostly nick for interfering in his conversation. walter gave up and wanted to be shot bcause of mathew and THATS WHAT LILY DID AT YHE MOTEL GENIUS AND NOW UR GIVING KENNY HELL 4 DOING THE SAME THING ? those were JOKES smartass.
good points my ass. he was tryin to protect his family and now sarita and i just pretty much mostly proved u wrong with ur crappy excuses and u wanna say that he doesnt care about any1 but himself? he clearly cares about clem, sarita and his family before they died
Lee couldn't move the tractor by himself. That doesn't make it the immovable object. With another hand, it's very possible that they could have gotten it off him. Or at the very least, one of them could have held off the walkers while the other worked on freeing Shawn.
That's incorrect. When Lee can't find Clementine, it's when he returns to the house after going to the docks with Kenny. Clementine followed them there. Lee got separated from the group. So prior to that, he had last left Clementine with Kenny and Molly. When he gets back to the house, Kenny is sitting around getting drunk and says he doesn't know where Clementine is. I mean, that part you're right about. Kenny didn't know where Clementine was. That's exactly the problem. He clearly wasn't worried about Clem's well-being.
What? Walter did not give up. Carver marched him out and shot him in the head after Kenny shot one of Carver's men. Yes, Walter may have just suffered a huge loss, but there was never any indication on his part that he was giving himself up to Carver willingly or that he was ready to die. That's just ridiculous.
As for your other points, like I said before, you can rationalize his actions as much as you want. I'm sure we could come up with any number of excuses for why it was okay to kill Larry or why it was okay for him to leave Lee behind. I wouldn't agree with them, but those arguments certainly exist. And if it were just one or two isolated incidents of Kenny doing something irrational, then we could probably look past it. Because hey, it's a stressful situation. That makes people do crazy things. But it's the fact that this is a consistent pattern with Kenny. He's consistently willing to kill his own team mates or leave them behind to get his way. He consistently responds to problems with thoughtless aggression. He consistently refuses to consider anyone else's well-being. And again, I understand why he acts that way. But understanding it doesn't make it okay.
I'd also like to address this point that Kenny lost his family, so that makes his outbursts okay. All right, I'm willing to cut him a little slack when he just saw his wife and child die. But he's not the only one who has lost people he cared about. Let's not forget that the very first episode shows Lee discovering that his parents are dead and being forced to kill his zombified brother himself. Plus, he's got an ex-wife out there somewhere, and even though they're not together any more, he clearly cared about her. And yet Lee is able to keep it together without killing any of his team mates. Clementine lost her parents. Then she loses Lee, who was like a father to her. And she's handling it better than Kenny ever did. Lilly watches her father's head get smashed in right in front of her eyes while she's trying to resuscitate him. Yet people aren't so forgiving of her when she loses it. Carley listened to her coworker dying on the radio. This is a world where everyone has lost somebody close to them. So do I feel bad for him? Of course. But that doesn't give him a free pass to do whatever the heck he wants.
So to sum up, no, I actually don't think you've proven any of my points my wrong. But there's no need to get so angry about it. It's just a discussion.
im not gettin angry its just ppl go ow kenny fanboy. i hate that bcause im just sayin season 1 wouldnt be as good without kennys character. ppl see kenny as a guy who is an asshole to lee but I like kenny because kenny is unpredictable sometimes like keeping a girl as zombiebate and trying to save ben/christa from an impossible situation. so yeah. oh and u cant blame kenny for what happened to clementine in the yard cause he probably got wasted and clementine told BEN she was goin to the yard so yeah molly christa or kenny didnt know where she was just ben.
was molly worried? was ben worried? about clem no (thats y u can hate ben)
I think it really has to be a Kenny vs. Lilly thing, if you dont like Kenny, that doesnt automatically mean youre a Lilly supporter. But if youre a big Kenny fan, youre almost definitely a Lilly hater and people bonded with Kenny over that hate. Kenny does very little else to endear himself to Lee, the only way I think you would really like him without just hating Lilly is that you happen to agree with everything he does, because if you ever disagree, he shows how little regard he has for your opinion.
Well, the question was why people don't like Kenny. Ben and Molly are another topic. Yeah, I was pretty fed up with Ben too at that moment. But part of that is on Kenny too. He was the last person Lee had left Clementine with. He shouldn't have to be told that when you have a little kid in a situation like that, you keep track of where they are. And if he were a responsible adult who cared about anyone else in the group, he would have done just that instead of sitting around getting drunk.
I actually do agree with you though that Kenny is a good character who made the first season more interesting. But that's not because he's a good person. I think what made him an interesting character is precisely because he's so often doing the wrong thing and trying to push Lee to go along with him, like the devil on his shoulder. He's kind of the Shane to Lee's Rick.
You cant convince him of anything, ever. If you ever disagree with him, he will immediately berate you, its never a discussion. Its impossible to have a rational discussion with him, either a one way engagement that Kenny dictates and you blithely agree with, or an argument that Kenny doesnt give you an inch on.