I'm pretty much neutral about Lily but saw some promise for her to have turned it around if given the chance. She made some bad (and good/not so bad) decisions just like other characters. What I don't understand is her constant fight with Kenny about him wanting to leave the motel in the RV. If she wanted to stay with her dad at the motel (with anyone else who wanted to stay) then that would have been better seeing that she made a big deal when Lee & company brought Ben and his injured teacher back. They were running out of resources, so if she wanted to stay the winter while others left... the less the merrier!
She was a strong female character that had potential, but like a lot of characters in TWD game, she was flawed. She had a breaking point that caused her to take it out on Carley/Doug in an unacceptable (violent) way instead of patiently biding her time until she could confront the culprit that she saw as a threat with adequate evidence in tow. She crossed the line IMO & I left her behind. However "the line" means different things to different people. That's the joy of this game!
I guess Lily supporters view her character as morally redeemable in TWD world. Lily stated after she killed Doug/Carley "I don't have anything left." Apparently, some believe that she still does. I personally would love to find out.
Edit: Sorry about unnecessary spoiler warning - how do I take it out?
Thing is, Roman's group had other vehicles and was in a safe place. The other group was on the road, and at that point, the RV was their only mode of transportation. Lilly took it and left them to die, Shel took the RV because Roman was a horrible person and had made the pitstop into a prison camp. So what Shel did was more like escaping from a bad situation, what Lilly did was most definitely stealing the RV and leaving everyone to die.
I have been having 2 discussions on why Lilly is not a bad person and they have some really good points. However I will stand by Lilly unles… mores she messes up in S2 if she returns. So without further ado I will post my opening statement.
Why do you guys not want Lilly back so much? Seriously whats up with all the hate? Obviously you do not see characters as Lilly fans do. As UndeadEuan said... Lilly killed Carley out of anger. Lee killed the senator out of anger. I know killing Carley/Doug sucked but this is the walking dead. People die. And for some reason when your watching Jolene's video and Clementine is playing with chalk on the sidewalk. Lilly goes up to Clementine kneels down and talks to her. That may not mean much but it means a lot to me. She lost it a little but seriously. How would you feel if a person you hated dropped a salt lick on one of your parents heads. That's really brutal if you ask me.
Kenny scared Clementine even mo… [view original content]
I'm not sure why people like Lilly, honestly, I'm not. From the very second she was introduced into the game, I found her to be a very unpleasant, negative person. I simply did not like almost any aspect of her personality, and to top it off, she made decisions that were mostly more about survival than morals, something that I disagree with. Even if she hadn't killed Carley or Doug, I wouldn't have liked her.
Yes. I was too lazy to post something else that meant basically the same thing. I Save Lots of time. But it was my opening statement and basically most of my thoughts on Lilly.
Right, well I think I commented on it back on the other thread, so I disagree with this opinion here as much as I did there, and if I did indeed give my reasons then you've already heard them in the other thread.
Yes. I was too lazy to post something else that meant basically the same thing. I Save Lots of time. But it was my opening statement and basically most of my thoughts on Lilly.
I'm not sure why people like Lilly, honestly, I'm not. From the very second she was introduced into the game, I found her to be a very unple… moreasant, negative person. I simply did not like almost any aspect of her personality, and to top it off, she made decisions that were mostly more about survival than morals, something that I disagree with. Even if she hadn't killed Carley or Doug, I wouldn't have liked her.
Well, she has some good qualities. She was a good survivor, and was a smart leader(I won't say she was a good leader, but she was a smart leader), but outside of that, I didn't find many likeable things about her.
Except Lee didn't kill on purpose he caught his wife in bed with another man and was understandably angry and wanted to kick the crap ought of the guy and accidentally killed him. Lee was also punished for it by going to prison plus he wasn't even around when his family got attacked by zombies something he reveals he regrets when getting the keys off his brother.
Lilly on the other hand was deliberate she carefully took aim at Carley and fired even when you have Doug she was planning on killing Ben which to me is a lot worse then what Lee did .So because people die Lilly gets a free pass to kill innocent people who had nothing to do with her dads death?
After the farm the bandits had obviously been attacking the motel and Lilly put everyone at risk by refusing to leave which contributed to Kat and Duck getting killed. Kenny was right about having to leave even before her dad was killed.
Even though I was angry when Ben revealed his deal I later realized yes hes a bit of a screw up but he only wanted to help and he gave Lilly a chance to get rid of him with out violence by volunteering to bebeing left behind so to me there really is no justification for what she did.
I know people like to argue about her mental state but all of the group were suffering some sort of loss or stress Carley wasn't sleeping because of what happened to Doug, Kenny was feeling guilty over Shawn even though I feel his instinct to protect his son was justified .
As for who scared Clem the most well Larry tried to leave Lee to die after punching him and Lee was already becoming some thing of a father figure.
As for caring about Clem both Lilly and Kenny did I mean Kenny's reaction to seeing Clem alive again proves that and he wanted her to sit with him at dinner and he was just so happy to have her back
I have been having 2 discussions on why Lilly is not a bad person and they have some really good points. However I will stand by Lilly unles… mores she messes up in S2 if she returns. So without further ado I will post my opening statement.
Why do you guys not want Lilly back so much? Seriously whats up with all the hate? Obviously you do not see characters as Lilly fans do. As UndeadEuan said... Lilly killed Carley out of anger. Lee killed the senator out of anger. I know killing Carley/Doug sucked but this is the walking dead. People die. And for some reason when your watching Jolene's video and Clementine is playing with chalk on the sidewalk. Lilly goes up to Clementine kneels down and talks to her. That may not mean much but it means a lot to me. She lost it a little but seriously. How would you feel if a person you hated dropped a salt lick on one of your parents heads. That's really brutal if you ask me.
Kenny scared Clementine even mo… [view original content]
For the record, I agree that killing Larry was the right thing to do.
What I'm arguing is that Lilly might not see it that way.
In her eyes there was still a chance to bring Larry back.
And it's not like the group has all the data about reanimations in the TWD universe available to them. They hardly have any experience with people coming back.
Maybe Lilly would eventually have come to accept what happened, but it's unfair to her to hate her because she isn't there just yet.
I never said anything about the limit of resuscitation time, go back and read. I realize theoretically you can bring someone back long after… more their heart stops beating. 30 mins is clearly not an option in this situation though. I don't understand how you're not realizing that Larry can reanimate as a walker in way less time than that. Seriously, why would they take the risk? In some cases in TWD universe people have reanimated in less than two minutes.
You also didn't answer my question. How long do you think they should have tried to bring him back? Again, remember that Larry could reanimate very quickly.
Because a rather large chunk of season 1 was a "who do you pick?" kind of drama. Kenny and Lilly are linked in that regard as constantly being at odds and both relying on Lee and by extension, you. Additionally because how one of them acts affects how the other does too. People who complain about Lilly getting on your case tend to forget Kenny does the same thing, and vice versa. It's simply a way to address the problem of "well, she was always being bitchy" by someone who disagreed with her all the time.
I didn't know he did it by accident but he still went to jail "Your convicted. Were all in the same boat" -Vince
She was trying to protect the group. She assumed it wasn't Kenny Katjaa or Lee because they had kids. That leaves Carley/Doug or Ben. Carley was throwing insults at her while Ben was making false promises. Obviously she would kill the one being mean to her. There was 50/50 chance that it could have been Carley so it was a win win for Lilly since she killed someone she hated and most likely the stealer of the supplies.
I blame Ben. If he told them he was slipping them supplies then they would have left unharmed.
Your right about the stress thing. But I felt Lilly had the most. She obviously inherited her dad's anger and she can become angered easily. She was the leader and had to deal with most of the problems eg. Rationing food
Larry only knew Lee for like 2 hours. He knows hes a killer and couldn't take the risk of bringing him along.
Well I'm pretty sure Lilly would like to see Clementine again.
I want to thank everyone that posted, both for and against Lilly. I definitely came into this as a "Lilly hater", but there have been some compelling arguments made for her redemption. I still wouldn't say that I liked her, or forgive her for killing Carley, but I can kind of understand a little bit better where she was coming from. Good discussion like this is what makes this forum such an awesome place
Who cares what she thought? She was wrong. Like I said before, I could understand her being in denial in the moment of it happening, but she should have been able to understand why Kenny/Lee did what they did when looking back on it.
The group has had enough experience with reanimation to have an idea how quickly someone can reanimate. Remember how quickly David Parker reanimated at the motor inn after dying from blood loss? It was very fast. Kenny specifically mentions this example, and understands that Larry needs to be dealt with quickly.
I don't hate Lilly solely for this issue.. that would just be silly. It is fair to have a problem with her being in denial.
For the record, I agree that killing Larry was the right thing to do.
What I'm arguing is that Lilly might not see it that way.
In her e… moreyes there was still a chance to bring Larry back.
And it's not like the group has all the data about reanimations in the TWD universe available to them. They hardly have any experience with people coming back.
Maybe Lilly would eventually have come to accept what happened, but it's unfair to her to hate her because she isn't there just yet.
Larry technically wasn't dead, he actually gasps for breath just before Kenny kills him if you're fast enough. It actually makes sense Lilly'd be so angry if this happened in your play through, considering Kenny kills him no matter what.
* Who cares what she thought? She was wrong. Like I said before, I could understand her being in denial in the moment of it happening, but s… morehe should have been able to understand why Kenny/Lee did what they did when looking back on it.
* The group has had enough experience with reanimation to have an idea how quickly someone can reanimate. Remember how quickly David Parker reanimated at the motor inn after dying from blood loss? It was very fast. Kenny specifically mentions this example, and understands that Larry needs to be dealt with quickly.
* I don't hate Lilly solely for this issue.. that would just be silly. It is fair to have a problem with her being in denial.
We don't know if he was taking a breath or reanimating. His mouth moved, that was it. I think its way more likely that he was reanimating. The decision that Kenny/Lee made is still the correct one. If they had acted even ten seconds slower the group could have been in some serious, serious trouble.
Larry technically wasn't dead, he actually gasps for breath just before Kenny kills him if you're fast enough. It actually makes sense Lilly'd be so angry if this happened in your play through, considering Kenny kills him no matter what.
Comments
I'm pretty much neutral about Lily but saw some promise for her to have turned it around if given the chance. She made some bad (and good/not so bad) decisions just like other characters. What I don't understand is her constant fight with Kenny about him wanting to leave the motel in the RV. If she wanted to stay with her dad at the motel (with anyone else who wanted to stay) then that would have been better seeing that she made a big deal when Lee & company brought Ben and his injured teacher back. They were running out of resources, so if she wanted to stay the winter while others left... the less the merrier!
She was a strong female character that had potential, but like a lot of characters in TWD game, she was flawed. She had a breaking point that caused her to take it out on Carley/Doug in an unacceptable (violent) way instead of patiently biding her time until she could confront the culprit that she saw as a threat with adequate evidence in tow. She crossed the line IMO & I left her behind. However "the line" means different things to different people. That's the joy of this game!
I guess Lily supporters view her character as morally redeemable in TWD world. Lily stated after she killed Doug/Carley "I don't have anything left." Apparently, some believe that she still does. I personally would love to find out.
Edit: Sorry about unnecessary spoiler warning - how do I take it out?
Thing is, Roman's group had other vehicles and was in a safe place. The other group was on the road, and at that point, the RV was their only mode of transportation. Lilly took it and left them to die, Shel took the RV because Roman was a horrible person and had made the pitstop into a prison camp. So what Shel did was more like escaping from a bad situation, what Lilly did was most definitely stealing the RV and leaving everyone to die.
Did you just copy & paste an argument from another thread?
I'm not sure why people like Lilly, honestly, I'm not. From the very second she was introduced into the game, I found her to be a very unpleasant, negative person. I simply did not like almost any aspect of her personality, and to top it off, she made decisions that were mostly more about survival than morals, something that I disagree with. Even if she hadn't killed Carley or Doug, I wouldn't have liked her.
Yes. I was too lazy to post something else that meant basically the same thing. I Save Lots of time. But it was my opening statement and basically most of my thoughts on Lilly.
Right, well I think I commented on it back on the other thread, so I disagree with this opinion here as much as I did there, and if I did indeed give my reasons then you've already heard them in the other thread.
Exactly this. There is almost nothing likable about her. Her bad qualities greatly outweigh her good ones.
Well, she has some good qualities. She was a good survivor, and was a smart leader(I won't say she was a good leader, but she was a smart leader), but outside of that, I didn't find many likeable things about her.
Except Lee didn't kill on purpose he caught his wife in bed with another man and was understandably angry and wanted to kick the crap ought of the guy and accidentally killed him. Lee was also punished for it by going to prison plus he wasn't even around when his family got attacked by zombies something he reveals he regrets when getting the keys off his brother.
Lilly on the other hand was deliberate she carefully took aim at Carley and fired even when you have Doug she was planning on killing Ben which to me is a lot worse then what Lee did .So because people die Lilly gets a free pass to kill innocent people who had nothing to do with her dads death?
After the farm the bandits had obviously been attacking the motel and Lilly put everyone at risk by refusing to leave which contributed to Kat and Duck getting killed. Kenny was right about having to leave even before her dad was killed.
Even though I was angry when Ben revealed his deal I later realized yes hes a bit of a screw up but he only wanted to help and he gave Lilly a chance to get rid of him with out violence by volunteering to bebeing left behind so to me there really is no justification for what she did.
I know people like to argue about her mental state but all of the group were suffering some sort of loss or stress Carley wasn't sleeping because of what happened to Doug, Kenny was feeling guilty over Shawn even though I feel his instinct to protect his son was justified .
As for who scared Clem the most well Larry tried to leave Lee to die after punching him and Lee was already becoming some thing of a father figure.
As for caring about Clem both Lilly and Kenny did I mean Kenny's reaction to seeing Clem alive again proves that and he wanted her to sit with him at dinner and he was just so happy to have her back
For the record, I agree that killing Larry was the right thing to do.
What I'm arguing is that Lilly might not see it that way.
In her eyes there was still a chance to bring Larry back.
And it's not like the group has all the data about reanimations in the TWD universe available to them. They hardly have any experience with people coming back.
Maybe Lilly would eventually have come to accept what happened, but it's unfair to her to hate her because she isn't there just yet.
cough Larry cough
Exactly. She was a bitch before the shooting, and just upgraded to a murderous bitch after.
Because a rather large chunk of season 1 was a "who do you pick?" kind of drama. Kenny and Lilly are linked in that regard as constantly being at odds and both relying on Lee and by extension, you. Additionally because how one of them acts affects how the other does too. People who complain about Lilly getting on your case tend to forget Kenny does the same thing, and vice versa. It's simply a way to address the problem of "well, she was always being bitchy" by someone who disagreed with her all the time.
I didn't know he did it by accident but he still went to jail "Your convicted. Were all in the same boat" -Vince
She was trying to protect the group. She assumed it wasn't Kenny Katjaa or Lee because they had kids. That leaves Carley/Doug or Ben. Carley was throwing insults at her while Ben was making false promises. Obviously she would kill the one being mean to her. There was 50/50 chance that it could have been Carley so it was a win win for Lilly since she killed someone she hated and most likely the stealer of the supplies.
I blame Ben. If he told them he was slipping them supplies then they would have left unharmed.
Your right about the stress thing. But I felt Lilly had the most. She obviously inherited her dad's anger and she can become angered easily. She was the leader and had to deal with most of the problems eg. Rationing food
Larry only knew Lee for like 2 hours. He knows hes a killer and couldn't take the risk of bringing him along.
Well I'm pretty sure Lilly would like to see Clementine again.
I want to thank everyone that posted, both for and against Lilly. I definitely came into this as a "Lilly hater", but there have been some compelling arguments made for her redemption. I still wouldn't say that I liked her, or forgive her for killing Carley, but I can kind of understand a little bit better where she was coming from. Good discussion like this is what makes this forum such an awesome place
Who cares what she thought? She was wrong. Like I said before, I could understand her being in denial in the moment of it happening, but she should have been able to understand why Kenny/Lee did what they did when looking back on it.
The group has had enough experience with reanimation to have an idea how quickly someone can reanimate. Remember how quickly David Parker reanimated at the motor inn after dying from blood loss? It was very fast. Kenny specifically mentions this example, and understands that Larry needs to be dealt with quickly.
I don't hate Lilly solely for this issue.. that would just be silly. It is fair to have a problem with her being in denial.
Larry technically wasn't dead, he actually gasps for breath just before Kenny kills him if you're fast enough. It actually makes sense Lilly'd be so angry if this happened in your play through, considering Kenny kills him no matter what.
We don't know if he was taking a breath or reanimating. His mouth moved, that was it. I think its way more likely that he was reanimating. The decision that Kenny/Lee made is still the correct one. If they had acted even ten seconds slower the group could have been in some serious, serious trouble.
Lilly lovers are pretty good at down voting.. not sure why they don't go out of their to way to try and make a logical case for her instead.