What is it with you?
What is it with killing = losing humanity? there are some situation where killing is perfectly justified.Like when killing a person that intentionally wanted to harm another people or yourself,and there are lots of maniac in TWD lore who fits & deserved that.One example is that like what happened to the st John,you're not descending to their fucking level just because you killed them,you're make sure none of them will bring harm to another people,and if you do not kill them due to the reason of "humanity",do you think it's more "humane" to let them be devoured by walkers? Another example is that when you watch Kenny execute Carver,you're not proving Carver's point,you're there to face the fact that evil person will get what they deserve,a cold steel of justice,it's the apocalypse,they don't have the fanciness of "fair" trial,and some act of killing are completely necessary for the good of others,like shooting that dick Troy in the dick.Let's face it,he fuckin deserve it for after what he did,and if the one who did that is Kenny,I'm sure a lot of you who his fans are cheering him for it.
Comments
I agree! all the people that we kill lack humanity and will surely hurt others.
You're probably right, but I still hold on to the "killing is bad" side. Killing is never justified in my eyes. I even wanted Carver to live! Now I know there are evil people out there, like the St Johns, and Carver, but my main argument is because they are human. Now I know everything I say will probably sound stupid but, humans make mistakes, some more then others, and just have it in their genetics. Killing you're own race brings us even in the tiniest bit closer to extinction, especially in a zombie apocalypse. Sure they're sick, but for me forgiveness is everything.
Everyone is unique, and sure some can be on the bad side, but people need second chances, or more chances for that matter. Everyone is a beautiful person, and ending a life is just terrible. I still remember in Grade 2 when I drew a picture that followed the words "Treat others as you would like to be treated" and it stuck in my brain you know? Some people are just born to be the way they are. People like Carver are just different. Plus you never know what happened to them. What they've been through. They could have been abused as a child sexually, mentally, and physically, parents could have divorced, being bullied, or maybe even just a mental issue.
Why are bad people bad? I don't know but there is usually a logical answer, that justifies their behavior. I just love people. Everyone is so different, and it would be nice if we could all live in harmony. Humanity can be defined in many ways, for me it is the ability to be human. Killing people just doesn't feel human to me. I might get a lot of hate for what I have said, but I said it. This is usually why I defend all The Walking Dead characters. Sure it's just a game, but when people enjoy watching a guy getting his face bashed in with a crowbar, or a guy getting his dick shot off, is just kind of odd to me.
We all have our flaws, and punishing others with death because of theirs, is not fair. Sure the world, or life isn't fair but this is how I see it. I have to admit, I killed Danny St John. I didn't enjoy it at all. Sure I saved him from walkers, but Clementine was there, and it didn't feel right. Emotions clouded my mind at the time, as they do in real life. I regret it whenever I think about it.
You say it's the apocalypse, and that fair trial does not matter, that killing is necessary. I can partly agree with you. Killing is never good, but we should do it only when necessary. EX. Bandits attacking Motel. But when there is a choice, I will never kill, and always try to save whenever possible. I may be judged for this, or get a bad outcome, but that will be my play through or my life, not yours. We all have our different opinions, so whatever answer is given in this thread is right in a way. Thanks for reading, and cool thread idea.
I'd honestly say that Carver didn't deserve to live. He was cruel, rude, and an asshole. He took things too far and way too seriously as evident by his actions such as killing Reggie, chasing the cabin crew, killing Walter, forcing Carlos to hit Sarah after she apologized to Carver, and beating Kenny(not counting determinant things). He also continued to insult others until the end even when Kenny was standing over him with a crowbar and both his knee's were shot.
Would you really want to keep a fuckbag like that alive?
I may be the only one here, but yes I would keep him alive. Maybe some punishment but never killing. He did a lot of messed up things, but I have never seen his whole story. You may be right, maybe he does deserve to die, but if I had the chance to I wouldn't. I know, and understand how most people would want him to die, but the thing that bugs me the most, is that most players watched Carver die, and probably loved it and thought he deserved it.
In my opinion, no one deserves that. A bullet to the head maybe, but shooting his legs, and beating his face to a pulp? That doesn't help anything, but getting revenge. Revenge isn't the answer. Everyone has done bad things, some worse, and some more then other people, but that doesn't mean we just kill them. Killing is definitely a cruel act, and you can call him all you want, but you're no better then him if you kill him. Killing a killer just makes you a killer. Sure maybe it's justified but know that for some people, like me, it isn't. Nobody's perfect.
I understand where you're coming from, and I hoped I haven't offended you or anyone else. Thanks for the reply!
I think killing is ok if the person has done bad things ex: the St. Johns, the stranger, Carver, save-lots bandits, and Winston since they have done terrible things and their deaths will surely benefit humanity.
Nah, you aren't the only one who would've kept him alive. I stayed because I thought I could convince Kenny to not bash Carver's skull in... needless to say, I wasn't paying attention, and the consequences were horrific.
Well,there are points where forgiveness is not an option.Hell,they're not even feel sorry for what they did,ever.It's only be a thorn for humanity to let people like that live.Yes,everyone's different,therefore they should respect each other without forcing their own will to the other,and people like Carver will never understand that,Also that's how I see it too,I gave people a chance to those who wanted to help,just like Ben,even though he mostly screw up,but no chance to those who just kill without reason or remorse like Lilly.Regardless of the pass,I still think anyone who intended to do harm to an innocent people should be put down,but thanks for your opinion.
and it is a noble goal indeed
I think JonGon was being sarcastic.
The St. Johns are much more terrible people than say......Larry for instance.
Yet I killed Larry and didn't kill them. Why? Because I had to on that occasion and didn't have to on the other occasion.
You don't kill by character or judgement. You kill by either necessity or mercy. To put things into perspective, Larry was a huge monster that if turned, would be even stronger and manhandle us to pieces with no viable weapon to fight back. Only heavy as hell salt licks which we can only use to drop on bodies lying on the ground.
And Danny St.John, well, Danny was frikin stabbed and then trapped into his own irreversible bear-trap(or human trap), what the hell was he going to do? Spit on me?
And I didn't kill the stranger because of what he did, but because we were in a life-or-death fight. And it so happened that the only way to win this fight is to kill him(otherwise, you die)
The same principle applies to Carver, Carver was shot down on both knees and wasn't going anywhere. Thus there was no necessity to killing him. Thus there we shouldn't have killed him.
All of that said though, "sinking down to their level" is an exaggeration from the opposite party. While killing the St.Johns in their situation is not the right decision. It isn't half or quarter as bad as what they've probably done to countless people. We'd have to at least go to mass murder and cannibalism before reaching their level.
The same with Kenny bashing in Carvers head. while I don't thinking doing that was the right thing to do. I don't hold it against Kenny. It was wrong but it was understandable.
I couldn't say it better myself.
Exactly how I feel why become the beast you seek to destroy.
Example Lee was a killer so by logic he should been killed by look what happened when he got a second chance that was the hidden meaning behind the game redemption keeping morals in evil world the monster became a saint after being given a second chance in za by the end.
Two Words: Skylar Approved.
Killing people isn't the only way to stop people harming others.
There are moments where you must kill while there others where you show mercy even to the most hated.
Didn't Lee kill that guy by accident though? And that guy was sleeping with Lee's wife.
Wasn't an accident think down to interpretation Lee's past with telltale purposely yeah he was sleeping with his wife but it's still killing
It's not necessarily killing itself where you lose humanity, just the way you actually do kill someone.
Like, shooting carver in the head vs beating him to death with a crowbar.
That's just silly. I think what Jane did to Troy was a dick move (heh) but at the end of the day I don't really fault her for it and I don't think lesser of her for doing it and you shouldn't really. On that note though, would you say that Clem loses her humanity if she left the dog to die instead of putting it down in S2E1?
The thing is that killing can prove to be a slippery slope. I personally don't see anything wrong with killing people like Carver or the Save Lots bandits who have proven that they'll just continue to hurt others, but that doesn't mean that killing someone is ever a good thing. That just means that it's necessary.
Murder may be justifiable in some situations, but you're not supposed to enjoy it either...
What I mean is that, even if it's in self defense, killing a human beign is some serious shit. It shouldn't be easy no matter how evil the other person is. The fact that you feel bad about it shows that you haven't gone completely numb yet.
why waste a bullet on him? if you have a perfectly good weapon to use. save the bullet
You earned that avatar, man.
You maybe right but... I just CAN'T kill. I cannot give up on my values and beliefs just because someone is REALLY bad or deserves death or wants me to kill him/her. Like; ''Kill me. You know you want to. We're more alike.'' No thanks. Because those values explains who I am. I prefer struggling and even dying for what I believe and what I don’t believe.
Finally, somebody saying what I've been thinking, to quote Jack from 'Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines' (best game ever) "If some asshole levels a twelve-gauge your way, you drain him, skin him, and bash in his skull. Self-preservation is a vital part of humanity. My favorite part, in fact. hehe."
For me,killing is bad no matter what,maybe it's necessary sometimes but that doesn't make it right.
In the words of Joshua Graham "I don't enjoy killing; but done righteously, it is a chore like any other."
This is the mindset that you need to take in the apocalypse. That doesn't mean that it's something to revel in. Killing is never a 'good thing'. It's a last resort, when there's nothing else you can do.
The problem is "killing because I have to" can quickly devolve into "killing because I want to." We can see this downward spiral in Kenny. In S1E2, he dropped the salt lick on Larry's head because in that moment he saw no other way to keep the group safe. He "did what he had to do". In contrast, Kenny killed Carver for selfish reasons (vengeance). Given all that Carver put him through, this is understandable, but that still doesn't make it right. I won't deny that Carver is a menace who probably had to die but that could be accomplished just as easily by putting a few bullets in his head and walking away instead of methodically pulping his head with a crowbar.
i would not kill him but leave him for the walkers kenny shot himin the knee's anyway
Blind idealism, Blind idealism everywhere.
Eh, sometimes it makes sense to kill someone from a safety standpoint. If there's a risk that he might, for example, come back and do harm against you, then yeah it'll probably be for the best to kill him. If it can be avoided then that's fantastic, but if it can't be then that's really unfortunate but not deplorable.
Too much humanity makes you have more innocence, therefore makes you weaker. Too little humanity makes you damaged, and possibly broken with no sense of right or wrong. You need a fine balance if you want to survive.
I know,my respond was sarcastic either
Yes,like pulling up Ben from the doom of the tower for example.
Exactly my point,I never said taking out someone lives was good either,but it was perfectly justified when it's necessary.
"A few bullets". Well, if the Courier can survive 2, then yeah. Although there have been cases in real life where people have survived being shot in the head.
I'm completely against killing unless it's out of necessity or as an act of mercy. I don't know, I just personally don't think I have the right to take another mans life, regardless of the crimes he's committed.
While I don't encourage the 'kill or you die' philosophy I think it's acceptable to kill if out of necessity, mercy or if the person in question doesn't really deserve the chance to live (I'm anti-death penalty but I think in a ZA it's entirely different)
Like Carver I think deserved to die, not out of just revenge but even in a terrible state he is still a threat alive to several people. While personally I would've just shot him in the head I'm not gonna pretend what Kenny did wasn't fair enough, he killed innocent people like Walter and Reggie, although I didn't stay and watch as I think taking pleasure in killing shouldn't be a lesson to learn.
Although I dropped Ben which might seem quite evil however I honestly did it out of a place of mercy, he was never gonna get a space on the boat and he would have died within minutes if left alone in Savannah, and he wanted to die, in a ZA I consider it a sad yet acceptable request.
Thanks.
BoydShouldHaveLived
Well for my play through
((((((.
True, but Benny was a careless fink. He could've rolled the courier over and put one more in his stem. Fallout: New Vegas averted.
"Killing is bad no matter what" -Lee
"But you do it now to protect yourself and me" -Clementine
"Still doesn't make it good" -Lee