Shame On You, Telltale (SPOILERS)

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  • Yeah, I have had people say the same thing to my face, that my life matters less because of my mental illness, because it means I'm not capable of contributing to society properly in their eyes. And even if someone cannot contribute entirely to society or a community, saying they're better off dead is barbaric.

    I know this discussion is about a fictional character but these things reflect real-world views others hold about people like us, and that's why its so important to point it out and dissect why these story choices are harmful.

    Lumlotus posted: »

    Same here. * As someone who has been tormented for not being "normal". * As someone who was told I would never achieve anything becaus

  • Well, what I'm angry about is that Telltale apparently didn't even care about Sarah. The way they see the story is the same way that all those people in the comments of a large Youtuber's see the story "u should of left sarah she is stuped." "i cant wait 4 sarah 2 die" 'nick is stuped he shot teh guy on the brig". The way they seem to be acting almost seems insulting to people with mental disorders in real life.

    You know, I found this discussion page, maybe more than a week ago? Anyway, I was searching for someone that shared my opinions, as well as

  • You literally said it yourself: This is not GTA. This is meant to be a simulation of whether you'd hold onto your morals or not in a crappy situation, NOT a power fantasy where you can kill and rob and die with no repercussions.

    So it does say something about your character when you decide to let a simulation of a teenage girl die, or rob a teenaged boy at gunpoint and threaten to murder him.

    What you said is no different from people saying that Video Games are destroying society and ruining lives. It's a GAME. You should know

  • While we're on the topic of Greg Miller he also insulted Bonnie right in front of her voice actress. This doesn't have anything to do with Sarah but Greg Miller just doesn't seem to..think before he speaks.

    Oh my god, are people seriously getting up in arms over Greg Miller and his response to a fictional character? I'm not even an IGN or Greg Miller fan, but this is just pathetic.

  • I literally said it myself. Literally...okay...?

    Bokor posted: »

    You literally said it yourself: This is not GTA. This is meant to be a simulation of whether you'd hold onto your morals or not in a crappy

  • Dude if more people here were like me, this would be the most boring forum on the web.

    This forum needs more people like you tyler.

  • edited August 2014

    Dammit, I was trying to not reply and see how many thumbs down I could rack up. Sigh, here I go.

    Its just that this reminds of that Jonah Hill homophobia incident. There were so many people that condemned him for that, and he was sincere in his apology and expressed that he was not against gay people at all. People just, overreacted so much, and vented so much of their frustrations at the wrong person and accused him of having certain ideas and intentions. Hell, some people still hate him for that even now, in spite of his apology.

    If anything, it seems people dislike how Telltale portrayed her as contributing nothing, being unhelpful as well as killing her off. Which was a major problem in the story. But instead you rage against gameovergreggy whom you guys make out to be the representative overlord of hating disabled people.

    @Bokor, why ask a loaded question that makes me out to be white trash hateful confederate republican? Thats just mean. Please stop. Its quite hurtful, especially with all these thumb downs I'm getting. I guess I do care about them after all...

    @ everyone else, you have my sympathies.

    You know, I found this discussion page, maybe more than a week ago? Anyway, I was searching for someone that shared my opinions, as well as

  • edited August 2014

    It's not about your feelings. You're not the host of a talk-show who gets to speak to the developers of a very popular game. The impact of him saying nonsensical and cruel things is much more offensive than any random comments on this forum because it reaches a wider audience and affirms what a lot of American people already believe - that 'different/weak' people are defective, and don't deserve to be treated like human beings.

    Nice concern trolling BTW. I give it 6/60.

    Dammit, I was trying to not reply and see how many thumbs down I could rack up. Sigh, here I go. Its just that this reminds of that Jonah

  • Yeah sadly

    Dude if more people here were like me, this would be the most boring forum on the web.

  • Hey, it’s great that Greg Miller took the time to acknowledge the reaction he’s receiving in response to this whole Playing Dead thing. But it really does not excuse him.

    He definitely knew that Sarah was disabled. The way he talks about it in the interview, it’s completely obvious. He’s just backtracking now. But let’s talk about it.

    He does not own up to the fact that his interview was offensive and hurtful to young disabled kids who loved and identified with this character. Instead, his “apology” claims that he didn’t mean anything by it. In his article he claims that his reason for not liking her is boiled down to “she wasn’t useful enough.” He claims that it makes her “abnormal” in the Walking Dead game world that she “didn’t accept how bad everything is”.

    Well Greg, I’m pretty sure the entire cast of both seasons doesn’t want to accept how bad everything is, but you don’t see them mocked and hated and proclaimed to be useless.

    You say in the very same article which is claimed to be an apology, that Sarah was still annoying, and that you were actively looking to get rid of her.

    Because she was useless.

    Abnormal.

    Not on board.

    All words and accusations regularly labeled on kids in the real world who are disabled.

    But that’s ok, because this is just a game, right? It’s just an opinion, so it doesn’t matter. All the real problems and views of the world are completely unaffected by the media. People are never ingrained with lifelong ideas and beliefs because of this kind of thing. So why argue about it? It doesn’t matter. So who cares?

  • edited August 2014

    Hey, its Bokor!
    Again...

    Seriously, why ask such a loaded question? Its like you're trying to make me out as someone without his priorities straight. Oh wait. Maybe that was the case. Which was probably why I found it offensive. Were you trolling me?

    But thats only fair, considering my original comment could also be perceived as presenting people here in the same manner. So I apologise for that.

    And if I trolled anyone, its only you. But would that really be considered trolling? I thought that it would be humorously annoying at most, and not offensive, unlike that person pretending to be all those harry potter characters on youtube making inane and offensive comments.

    Bokor posted: »

    It's not about your feelings. You're not the host of a talk-show who gets to speak to the developers of a very popular game. The impact of

  • wow, this went from LEGITIMATE GAME WRITING PROBLEMS to MUH SOCIAL JUSTICE.

    tumblr ruins everything.

  • edited August 2014

    I'm flattered that you like me so much that you've decided to personally address me. Do you want a cookie for getting your jimmies so rustled?

    Hey, its Bokor! Again... Seriously, why ask such a loaded question? Its like you're trying to make me out as someone without his priorit

  • When people say that video games have power, they're right. But that is not on the same level as when people want video games to be banned because they supposedly cause real life violence.

    This is a case of the media playing into and encouraging harmful assumptions onto any real-life kid like Sarah, assumptions that are very harmful and very real. This isn't some unsupported case of claiming that games make people lose contact with reality and want to kill people for the high score, or whatever that argument is supposed to claim.

    Video games are an active and well-known part of the media which constantly portrays the mentally disabled as useless, comic relief, killers, or a prop for another character. Instead of turning that on its head, Telltale played right into it.

    What you said is no different from people saying that Video Games are destroying society and ruining lives. It's a GAME. You should know

  • Aw come on guy, don't be like that.

    Lol, and I love terms like that. Jimmies rustled. So much salt. Just wondering, where did you pick those terms up by the way? Was it from a youtube series? Have you heard of Yomi by any chance?

    Bokor posted: »

    I'm flattered that you like me so much that you've decided to personally address me. Do you want a cookie for getting your jimmies so rustled?

  • edited August 2014

    Ok people, we can point out when something's offensive without personal insults.

    Bokor posted: »

    I'm flattered that you like me so much that you've decided to personally address me. Do you want a cookie for getting your jimmies so rustled?

  • So caring about how fiction affects people's thoughts on real disabled people is being a SJW?

    If anything, I find it a badge of honor to be labeled as such. It only makes the person calling you that look silly and immature for apparently thinking caring about people is a bad thing.

    wow, this went from LEGITIMATE GAME WRITING PROBLEMS to MUH SOCIAL JUSTICE. tumblr ruins everything.

  • You should not have said that. It's about to get very real for you.

    wow, this went from LEGITIMATE GAME WRITING PROBLEMS to MUH SOCIAL JUSTICE. tumblr ruins everything.

  • Hey, thanks for that TT247.

    Oh wait, was I being offensive?

    TT247 posted: »

    Ok people, we can point out when something's offensive without personal insults.

  • [...The fandom will remember that]

    You should not have said that. It's about to get very real for you.

  • um not sure if I'm just getting trolled now. But tbh I didn't take the time to check what response Bokor was referring to, so I didn't know if it was offensive. I saw that the argument was devolving into personal insults so I thought I should step in as soon as possible.

    Hey, thanks for that TT247. Oh wait, was I being offensive?

  • What does Tumblr have to do with any of this? Oh no, real life disabled people are speaking out about how we feel about people like us being portrayed shittily in media, and how that directly relates to people's views of us in real life. Quelle horreur.

    wow, this went from LEGITIMATE GAME WRITING PROBLEMS to MUH SOCIAL JUSTICE. tumblr ruins everything.

  • Why are so many people showing up to say that the point is ruined by "social justice"? Since when does wanting compassion and empathy to be shown to our fellow humans = your opinion no longer matters ???

    wow, this went from LEGITIMATE GAME WRITING PROBLEMS to MUH SOCIAL JUSTICE. tumblr ruins everything.

  • Ah, ok.

    TT247 posted: »

    um not sure if I'm just getting trolled now. But tbh I didn't take the time to check what response Bokor was referring to, so I didn't know

  • Lol, that was kind of creepy. Also, whats an SJW?

    You should not have said that. It's about to get very real for you.

  • Because caring about good writing - caring about people, caring about not being selfish, caring about more than just our base urges to kill and fuck each other - is not cool. Don't you understand that only lame and gay people care about helping others more than themselves? Can't you understand that it's just a video game and not at all a reflection of how young folks actually want? Can't you see that this game is REALISTIC and totally like what's going on in Syria, Haiti and Nigeria right now?

    Long and short of it is - young guys get angry when they're presented with a different view-point that forces them to not care about themselves, and resist it viciously.

    TT247 posted: »

    Why are so many people showing up to say that the point is ruined by "social justice"? Since when does wanting compassion and empathy to be shown to our fellow humans = your opinion no longer matters ???

  • I just want to point out that this whole thing about Sarah's treatment has been part of my point from the very beginning. Just check out the original post, and the first few pages of the thread. Why is it that now that tumblr has been brought into it, suddenly a bunch of the ppl who previously agreed are suddenly changing their minds? A bit hypocritical isn't it?

  • Angry Joe's cool but he doesn't seem to do many game reviews anymore. ZeroPunctuation makes me laugh as well and usually has some good content

    PoopBrown posted: »

    AngryJoe is the only good game reviewer left and the one I trust the most. He's very honest about what he reviews and is not afraid to call

  • Because of internet stereotypes. Though I tend to find now that if 'gamers' call a group "whiny" or "SJWs", that group actually becomes more likable to me.

    I appreciate threads like this for reminding me that there are other people with sense for good writing and a measure of compassion. Spending so much time among gamer circles and trying not to absorb their mind-sets can really exhaust you.

    TT247 posted: »

    I just want to point out that this whole thing about Sarah's treatment has been part of my point from the very beginning. Just check out the

  • An SJW is an acronym for "Social Justice Warrior". They are the people who go on and on about being politically correct and stuff.

    Lol, that was kind of creepy. Also, whats an SJW?

  • edited August 2014

    It's a term that started off as a mockery of the extremists - the folks who would say America is worse than the Nazis without any irony - but has now morphed into an insult for anyone who shows any sign of caring about social issues that impact real people. Since it's an insult usually used by immature people who don't like any criticism of something they like, I tend to now find it flattering rather than hurtful.

    Spooch posted: »

    An SJW is an acronym for "Social Justice Warrior". They are the people who go on and on about being politically correct and stuff.

  • im still crying bc nick and sarah

  • Yeah, this is it exactly. I have seen honest-to-god social activists organizing donation drives for families of police brutality victims being called "SJWs". Honestly, the people who make a big deal out of SJWs and how much they hate them make me more uneasy than the radical extremists in social justice movements.

    Bokor posted: »

    It's a term that started off as a mockery of the extremists - the folks who would say America is worse than the Nazis without any irony - b

  • Yep, I defended Sarah from the very beginning saying that her treatment has not only been lazy writing but was also disrespectful and offensive. Like I said, just look at the first few pages and my original post. People back then disagreed with me too, but only now that SJ is mentioned do they write it off completely.

    Bokor posted: »

    Because of internet stereotypes. Though I tend to find now that if 'gamers' call a group "whiny" or "SJWs", that group actually becomes mor

  • I was worried that the treatment of her character would only affirm the views of those who dislike any sign of 'weakness', but gave the developers the benefit of the doubt. Finding out that they themselves endorse this mindset has only poisoned my perspective towards the Season as a whole.

    TT247 posted: »

    Yep, I defended Sarah from the very beginning saying that her treatment has not only been lazy writing but was also disrespectful and offens

  • exactly, I kept letting my hopes get up, "Maybe they didn't realize", "Maybe they meant her death to mean something", "Maybe it just flew under the radar by mistake" but really, this whole interview just buries that. If they were at all aware of their mistakes with Sarah's treatment, this interview was their chance to fix it. But no.....

    Bokor posted: »

    I was worried that the treatment of her character would only affirm the views of those who dislike any sign of 'weakness', but gave the deve

  • Yes I was expecting them to say something when I went to watch the interview. I was hoping for something different but I got sick to my stomach while watching and had to turn it off. I thought I just got over the fact that people could be so heartless and down right demented on their views on a person that is just a little bit different, that it might have just all been in my mind but trying to watch that just confirmed it more than ever. I knew people disliked me for what I am but the talk around that seems to drive it more and more home to the point that I don't like being around others because of similar thoughts as brought up in the interview. This stuff really needs to be brought to telltale's attention. I really use to genuinely like them but now not so much.

    TT247 posted: »

    exactly, I kept letting my hopes get up, "Maybe they didn't realize", "Maybe they meant her death to mean something", "Maybe it just flew un

  • Yawn Just woke up...

    What did I miss? Holy...

  • im deprssed help me i loved nick so much

    TheMPerson posted: »

    Yawn Just woke up... What did I miss? Holy...

  • I've never heard of ZeroPunctuatian but I'll definitely check him out. As for Joe yeah he doesn't do many reviews anymore but he at least reviews the bigger games like Watch Dogs and stuff. His reviews are amazing but sometimes few and far between I will admit

    Angry Joe's cool but he doesn't seem to do many game reviews anymore. ZeroPunctuation makes me laugh as well and usually has some good content

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