Clementine of Telltale's The Walking Dead
Lately on the forums, I've been seeing downright chaos over the idea of who should be protagonist: Clem or some new guy. Before I noticed that before Season 3 was even announced barely anyone complained about playing as Clementine. But once Season 3 was announce, THEN EVERYBODY LOSES THEIR MINDS!!! Many say that Clem's story ran its coarse, she's not fun to play, she's not developed alot, how it's not her story and so on. Well I beg to differ on all of this, and I'll explain every reason WHY CLEM IS THE MAIN CHARACTER OF TTG'S TWD SERIES and SHOULD BE S3 PROTAGONIST. Note that I'm not writing this cuz I'm a Clem fan but I'm saying this from a story teller's perspective. Beware: This is one LOOOONG rant.
Clem's Character Development
Many says her development is lacking, well thing is: Usually the main character's development is slower than the rest of the cast (For example in Ratchet and Clank: Ratchet was a selfish and non-adventurous individual in the first game until later on he decided to help others over his own desires. In Going Commando and onward he stook to that trait and barely developed until Tools of Destruction where we learn of his backstory.) Even though it's determinant by choice, you can learn more about Clementine: she hates her treehouse, her and Sandra pretended to be sisters- as you can see, it's usually a while before you learn something about the main character that you didn't in the past. Now then, I remember back in S1 Clem would never try to yell back at someone but S2 you can actually see her yell at Kenny and call him and asshole, she wouldnt do that to Ken in the past. Oh and did I forget she no longer has a problem with profanity seeing she does swear now. I remember in S1 she didn't have much confidence in herself but now LOOK AT HER! She's doing things that I wouldn't have the balls to do, like stitching! SHe's alot braver now than she was in S1. In S1 she is a sweet person, but now she can be manipulative, rude and cruel(leave Sarah for death, blackmail Rebecca, insult others). However even though you can stay to watch Carver's death(which is unlike her) if you choose nothing, she leaves on her own record: showing she wants to hold on her humanity. And I still see more progression ahead for future episodes, she's white canvas that's slowly turning gray. It would be interesting if she starts lose some of her sanity because of all the stress and struggling to keep her humanity and not become like Carver. A turning point for that role in is where we could have a button mash sequence where we can brutally murder someone out of rage(like the Stranger).
Clem's Emotions
Many find it uninteresting how Clem is not as emotional as she used to be. Well that's the thing, all the shit she had changed her. Many would expect a person to just be angry and crazy after they lose someone(Rick/Kenny). But sometimes, death can have a different effect: loss of emotions. I for one lost most of my emotions after my Grandmother died, I was emotionless for a long time, so I know why Clem is this way. Think about it, she lost her family, Sandra, Lee, Ben, Katjaa, Duck, Omid, Carley/Doug, possibly Christa, technically Lilly, and so many more. She probably lost even more during the 16 month period for all we know. So it makes sense she's not as emotional, and you can tell she was distant with Christa after Omid died. Once she met the others, some of her emotions slowly were coming back. She needed people to feel alive again(when she spaces out in Ep1 she looks very miserable). But when people started dying again she WAS bothered by it. I think she cried so much in the past that she can barely do it now(another thing I can relate to; I barely cry). She's trying to hold in her emotions a lot (but let's not forget she only knew the current survivors much less time than the one in S1). However We saw glimpses of her looking REALLY furious, something you don't see in S1. I think her tears are converting to rage which would eventually break out. The more and more I play I can't help but noticed how much more miserable she is in the next episode.
Clem's Strength
Alright so many of you say her strength can be quite rediculous at instances, so lemme explain it. Okay so if you think of it from a headcanon perspective it would make sense. Clem has barely any food, yes, but what has she been doing for 16 months? Travelling. When you do alot of exercise, say the arms and legs, with alot of physical activity and being "healthy" by being active, you're strength/endurance/stanima increases. Clem's strength seems natural. She can barely lift a jug of water or a sledgehammer because they're heavier than her. However Clem was able to lift herself because she's physically fit to carry her own weight. You can see that Clem does struggle in pushing a shelf, wardrobe, walker, etc, she doesn't make it look easy unless you mash the button like The Flash to make it seem easy. And now the door part, well, that trailer's door been around since the start of the apocalypse and it's been two years PLUS that door's been around before it all began. It may never have gotten replaced so it kept corroding inside where the lock is, so when Clem kicked it hard enough, she was able to bust the weakened lock by kicking the door.
Clem's Gameplay
Alright I'll agree that some of it is rediculous, like Clem acting smarter than the adults. But I do find it fun to play as her, she's refreshing to play as cuz because of her size, her position is at a disadvantage, making survival more difficult. It's boring to play as some badass adult that can clobber an enemy cuz it's done constantly with other games. It makes her unique to play as due to being as a child in a apocalypse game, this is not done often. This is something rare that must be savored or else if they switch to an adult again, you'll eventually get bored at playing some cliche character and want to go back to playing as Clem. I barely buy any games anymore cuz of how overdone the adult male character trend is, I've been playing S2 more than any other game because I'm playing as her. I think some people dislike playing as her is because how she does everything, that's okay. I think Telltale just need to fix that in Season 3 by giving her more believable gameplay(like having to go through a vent with a walker in it) to then have some people enjoy playing as her instead of complaining about it. Let the adults do more while Clem has to do other things that adults are ACTUALLY unable to do, but keeping the idea of her being treated as an equal and being a partner of, like, a scavenge hunt. Plus we can still have Clem learn new survival skills which can use in another episode (maybe making a skill's availability determinant by your choice).
Clem's Story, Involvment and the Plot of TTG Walking Dead
Okay so now we have the issue where people are denying any further involvment of Clem in the story. Some say it's finished, BUT IT'S NOT. Clementine's story still has lots to go with new adventures, even more interesting than an adult could have. A child protagonist is a rare thing filled with more possibilities than an adult since it's always rehashed through adult characters. Now some say it's not her story, well in reality it is. Telltale and Steam said so themselves. A main character doesnt always have to be playable at the get go(look up The Last of Us). In Season One, yes, we play as Lee but then we were developing Clementine. Teaching her right from wrong and how to survive. The focus of S1 was watching over Clementine and making sure she lives. S2 is to show Lee's legacy lives on as you play as Clementine, trying to survive, learning and bonding with others through even harsher times of the zombie world. 400 days was made for the purpose of opening up the plot for S2, with Bonnie, Tavia, and Carver's Community being introduced to the main plot. Yes you were able to play as others, but lets look at Rick's story, it showed scenes that Rick wasn't in so we can learn what happened, yet Rick is still the main focus of the story. The same can be said for the game: Clem and Bonnie are an example. It's sometimes better to play as someone else temporarily then straight back to the main character or else you lose focus on what the story is. When you pay attention to it, S2 has noticebly been building something up to something big. And it still is, even at the end of Amid the Ruins. The way it was handled was different than how it ended in Around Every Corner, S2 Ep4 led to more questions than answers compared to S1 Ep4 where things were finally wrapping up. I don't think a new protagonist is good idea(even though I'm okay with the thought, it's the handling that matters). My reason is because Clem's story is leading to something, it's not as simple as Lee's was, it's currently leading to something so important we'll be shocked as hell at the climax. Her story does not end by Season 2, otherwise the purpose of both seasons would be a HUGE waste of purpose. You would get rid of that purpose just to play as someone new? We would be straight back to ground zero and it would be a disaster in story making. The overall story needs a rhythm, a heart to give it an overall purpose. Clem is the heart of TTG's TWD, just like how Rick is the heart of Kirkman's TWD. You need a major focus, not on the theme, but on a character. Without that focus, the whole series would be all over the place and quickly crumble apart till it dies in an instant. Kirkman's idea was to create a story that revolved around one's life on how to survive(with children being important to the story), Telltale's trying to do that same thing. Clementine is the main character of Telltale's story of The Walking Dead.
Forgive me for any errors in grammar. I typed this whole thing on Notepad as I don't have WordPerfect. I MAY add or correct things over time. I hope you took the time reading this as I put a lot of heart into this thread showing how I don't want the series to crumble anymore than it has over some warfare that causes TTG to do something that everyone may regret. I love Walking Dead and I love the adventures I have with Clementine.
NOTE: Don't expect me to shorten this because I'm not very good when it comes to summarizing long explanations. 
Comments
So.... any thoughts? Guys? Hello?
I agree with you more than what a simple 'like' can convey.
I love the way you see things Tobi and I really enjoyed reading this how you related your own life and implemented your experiences to show how it was realistic for Clem. Plus that Ratchet and clank and Joker quote reference this was quality :'D
Clem needs another season TWD is Clem for me I developed her with lee since the start and I won't be happy till she is the next rambo with a happy life for closure. She deserves better then being killed off such wasted potential she is one of the greatest characters ever created. Clem will always be the only and best choice for me for S3.
I for one would be happy with Clem as the protagonist in S3.
i love clementine as a character but not as a protagonist, and with computer games there is a big difference between the two, unlike in a tv show, a film or a book, because we actually control the protagonist we're not just passively watching them, in a tv show, a film or a book if the protagonist is doing things that stretch the suspension of disbelief we can disregard it more because we want the main character to be more interesting, but in a game where we control the protagonist it's much harder to ignore the feeling that we are doing things and being put in situations that are unbelievable.
when it was announced that clementine was going to be the protagonist for season 2 i was hopeful that they could make a game that acknowledged that clementine was still a child but still make the game interesting, however the game just about ignores that she is a child most of the time and the story could have been the same with an adult as the protagonist (except more believable) of course you can make excuses like "she is a living person, not a child" but she is a child and in practice ignoring that is a detriment to the game.
as i said i love clementine as a character, but i really hope we are somebody different in season 3, preferably an adult.
that was great and just what i was thinking.
What's wrong with just having her be older next season, if your only complaint is her being too strong and helping the group too much for her age? I think having her older next season would fix a lot of your problems with her character.
They can't do a big time skip, because it would surpass the comic time-wise.
Clem is a fine protagonist, but would be much better with...y'know, better writing.
I agree. My only problem with Clementine being the protagonist next season is our limitations for being a kid (Not being too active in group discussions is something i miss a little). Now that could easily be fixed with a timeskip, but i also don't want another timeskip.
Not only would you have to stay true to the comic canon while being ahead of it, it would also be hard to make a game out of it honestly. There would be no scavenging, you would have to rely on fishing and farming. People would be completely used to walkers already. That only leaves the humans.
No matter who we play as, i'll be happy in the end. If they change protagonist i'll be happy i'm playing as an adult again, but sad there's no Clem. If we keep Clem i'll be glad she survives 1 more season, but a little sad we'll keep playing as a kid.
Oh right. Sucks that the game's potential is limited by the comics.
I agree 100% with all of that you wrote. She has to be the protagonist in season 3. It would be fucked up if telltale just kill her off and make another character we haven't seen once. And yea, there isn't many games where we get to play as a little girl, IN A ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE! I like playing as Clem more than i liked playing as Lee. She is the main character of the game.
Clementine's strengths (?) how i view it.
She can pick up her own body weight proof episode 2 when being on the bridge, but she can't pick up a 45 lb drum of water.
She can smash down a door with her size two shoe.
She can kick a dog eleven feet over a log, with that size two shoe.
Time after time after time, i'm thinking to myself WHY NOT JUST GIVE HER SUPERPOWERS!
As for Clem's emotional state. It doesn't really concern me, i don't find it enjoyable playing unemotional clementine. I understand why she is like that, but it doesn't change the fact having a unemotional Clem < emotional Clem.
I just don't want to play as her anymore. I think her time in the sun is over. Let's start a new story with new characters. Hopefully Season 2 will be the conclusion of her story.
Exactly. When I heard that Clementine was going to be the protagonist, I thought it meant the writers were being bold. They had given us the experience of playing a grown man, an adult who can handle himself in a fight and who is taken seriously by everyone else in the group when he has an idea.
Now they were trying for a new kind of experience: a young girl, someone who can't fight like Lee but usually has to run and hide and sneak to stay alive. Regardless of how adept she is at survival, the adults around her don't take her seriously, which means she has to either manipulate people using the 'cute little kid' card or take action on her own to set things right. A new game, a new challenge, a new experience.
Nope. For the most part, Clem is capable of doing just about anything Lee was capable of doing. The rest of the group only occasionally seems to remember that she's an 11 year old girl. For the most part, I get the impression the writers were just at a complete loss as to how to write a story that kept in mind Clem's age and lack of physical strength. So they just chose to ignore it and have her do things like kick in doors, or have the entire group turn to her to solve their problems, no matter how laughably absurd it becomes.
That said, I still would like Clementine to be the protagonist of Season 3. I just want writers who have a friggin' clue what they're doing in regards to writing a kid.
Thanks for the feedback guys! I really appreciate it!
And to the downvoters, my reason for bumping this is because it wasn't getting the notice it needed seeing how crucial it is. I didn't waste 2 hours of my valuable time in my busy schedule just to have it buried instantly considering how much effort I put into this. How would you feel if you put a lot of effort into your thread only to have buried immediately? I'm pretty sure you would be disappointed as well. So stuff it.
I feel this is one reason why the Kenny vs Luke arc is so pronounced - it's a crutch the writers are using because focusing on those two characters is easier than trying to write a convincing plot involving a little girl.
I stopped caring about downvotes and people's opinions tbh. But since you do - you cool tobi, I enjoyed reading your thoughts.
I'll give you a shocking truth - 99% people are usually wrong.
There's always room for improvement. Just because it won't happen this season doesn't mean they can't fix that in another. Just give the character a chance for another season.
Some says it's the character when in fact it's the writers that's wrecking it.
Uhhh kids are in fact capable of lifting themselves up. I've seen the athletic ones in my childhood that were able to do that. I'm not Einstein, but I'm pretty sure that when Clem was able to lift herself up at the shore it was because she used her knees and elbows to climb up. At the bridge she used a swing motion to get her feet on surface to be able to climb up, risky as it is.
I already theorized that, please re-read what I said. I'm pretty sure with Jane it would've been one kick if she had done it. Besides a lot of walking has been good for Clem, it puts strength in her legs.
There's are things called perspective and optical illusion. There's many reasons. The log was actually not that very far away it was just the perspective that made it awkward for when it comes to distance. When you look at it, Sam was very thin when we met him, I've seen a dog like him and Sam was thinner than the one I saw. Obviously he was light enough to be kicked away a good distance and with Sam bouncing off the top of the log, it created even more distance hence why he went over.
What ever floats your boat, Nate. But I do like to mention that many times there are people who doesn't like the main character in a certain moment or stage of their life. Let's use Ratchet as an example: Like I said when he was first introduced he was selfish and non-adventurous, yes he did progress during the same chapter of the serious. But did you know he progressed even more in the second because of how so many disliked that selfish quality of his? Because of that the creators made the next game take place in a time skip where he's matured. It could happen with a small time skip(and I don't mean a year) again where she's a little more alive inside, which is possible if they put her in Season 3, like if she's in Wellington.
Forgive my rudeness but... They're not gonna change protagonists just because you want them to. Even though I made this thread, it probably won't do much, I just wanted to express my thoughts as a story teller. It's their story after all. But from what I've been seeing, I'm pretty sure Telltale plans on continuing Clem's story. But if they kill her in No Going Back, well you can just laugh at me all you want for how stupid I was in making this thread.
About the whole Clem is still a kid thing there is that line from the ep 1 reveal trailer (I believe) with Chuck and him saying that the apocalypse doesn't care if you're a kid or not.
It still bothers me though like why does everyone else stand around and do nothing. I know they want us to do things since we're the player but like one person could do something if we can't do it and we can go do something else so more things are happening? I just figured adults would be more useful and Carlos did say "She's just a little girl." to Luke when he wanted to take her with him to the bridge.
telltale wouldn't have to kill clementine for somebody else to be season 3 protagonist
plus your theory about the door being weak doesn't work because zombies were trying to bash down the door and couldn't, and no matter how fit a child is she wouldn't be strong enough especially with a low amount of food
Even if they don't I still see it important to continue playing as her.
The walkers have been decaying for at least 2 years in the game, making them weaker as they lack nutrition(obviously cuz they're dead). Their bones are brittle. Their movements have gone slower and their strength has weakened. They were banning the door like they had noodle arms(little joke). They weren't using the strength a living human would have(yes go ahead and ask how zombies could tear and eat flesh, I can't explain seeing that the whole zombie logic is nonsense in the first place).
And for a child, here's another theory: It's called adrenaline rush. Usually when one gets it their senses and strength are heightened.
...
It´s called adrenaline, bitch!
if zombies were that weak they wouldn't be much of a threat, zombies are just stronger than humans and that is zombie logic.
but really they could have done a much better job of that door scene, when jane inexplicably told clementine to open a locked door (and not handle it herself like a normal person) i thought it was going to be a callback to episode 5 season 1 where clementine had to smash the window to open the door, she could have smashed the window next to the door and broke in, that would have been believable plus a good call back to what she learned for Lee.
it's not just her strength that is unbelievable it is that she does everything and everybody else just acts like she is an adult except for the odd comment, and they can't fix that for season 3, because it would be like she was getting worse at surviving for some reason, you can't just have her kicking down doors, taking out zombies and taking on responsibilities of an adult one season then the next have her realistically represent a child in that situation.
Sure...Buddy.
Speculation does not = fact, the Facts are she kicked down a door that a group of zombies couldn't break down. Then you want to try to rationalize it, I don't play what if games.
You assume that Clementine won't die next episode.
Well if they kill her off next episode they will have to find a new Protagonist for next season. Do you honestly think that they listen to any of us, no. I was just stating my personal prefs, as you pointed out yours earlier. To be honest i find it silly, to even argue about this because Clementine could be dead next episode so this whole convo would be futile.
I can understand what you mean in some parts. A lot of it has been overlooked by the writers but hey, I'm just theorizing why with all we got.
But I'm not gonna give up on Clementine just because of some stupid things that happened. Just because she'll be given different duties compared to others or having to work with others more means in no way she's getting worse. All you need to do is put her in difficult situations that will require others' assistance while still not redacting the gameplay(and realism). For a rather funny example, look at Chris Redfield, in RE5 he was freaking muscular like punching boulders like The Incredible Hulk! Then in RE6 his muscles got smaller and his strength is not as ridiculous. Last thing we need to see is Clem lifting boulders and going "CLEM SMASH!". XD
[Stare]
If you're trying to say I'm a liar then don't! I know exactly what I saw. -_____-
Well sorry. Not my fault it was an oversight in writing.
Sigh....
I give up. I was hoping you would try to understand where I'm coming from just once.
nope, i just don't agree with you.
I never said it was your fault. Your sitting there trying to justify why it happened. There is no justification for it.
I just watched a interview, i sure you seen it. IGN Greg miller interview. They pretty much say that all the characters are going to die at some point in the game. People just assume she is going to survive.
Man fuck that show. I don't think I should trust it. I mean clearly it's about some dork being a dick.
Can you direct to me where they said it? I watched it once and it was difficult to concentrate. Bad enough I tried to check a second time and still miss it.
But anyway, yeah, everyone's gonna die eventually. Clem, Kenny, Luke, Lilly and Christa(who what happened to them), Nate, Eddie, Mike and so on. But it's no excuse when making sure the story is the way it should be: a really good emotional one. Killing characters just for the sake of "being realistic" is just stupid. You have to make sure story is good along the cast being good and have potential. And I still see Clem having more story time past season 2. Hell I got great ideas for Season 3 if Telltale wants me to share them. Things that'll blow your mind.
[Hug Tobi]
or at the start of season 3 clementine saves a group of people and then increasing her worth as a person like from bandits or a walker herd or both like right after the attack from bandits then people will value your thoughts
It was the one where Greg Miller was being a douche . It was linked earlier on these boards in another threads. I think you would enjoy watching it, it'll give you a idea of how telltale thinks.
well if you kick just below the doorknob that is the weakest part of the door the walkers where hitting the middle of the top of the door cops kick just where clementine kicked. and trailers have weaker doors then houses i lived in a trailer when i was a kid and i know someone clementine's age can kick in a door like that.
Well said, Tobi. I totally agree that TTG need to keep Clem as protagonist. Her story hasn't finished yet. If they killed her off at the end of this season, that would be a huge mistake.
I agree completely. I don't want them to change protagonists. What I DO WISH FOR however is that once in every season, you would unexpectedly switch characters during a crucial moment of the story in 400 days style. Like, the game-changing moment of the season only, none other part of the season. Like when you had to play Joker in Mass Effect 2 when shit hit the fan onboard the Normandy while Shepard was gone.
I'll be completely honest. I'm doing laundry and didn't actually read all of this. But what I did read I agree with.
Tobi
When I see Clem doing less than believable actions, I just remind myself that in essence she's a comic book character, even though she doesn't actually appear in the comics.
And for some reason it's okay for comic book characters to be slightly more impressive in their abilities than normal people. At least in my mind.
Same as with stuff like kenny getting up after the beating he took.