It's full of idiots who turn everything into a social justice issue and think that they're actually making a difference. They take offence towards pretty much anything.
I don't know what you've got with your kid stuff. Walking Dead is still one of the darkest games I've played. In Harm's Way ending is super violent and dark and Amid the Ruins is depressing. You're exaggerating a lot.
If you look at season one, you could argue that it was rewritten as well. The fourth slide with Kenny, Christa and Lee never happened.
Calm down. Criticism is okay, but right now, your arguments are starting to get ridiculous.
so should you,even if telltale came out and said its what we planned from the start,would you believe it? come on...look at the slides,the f… moreiles,the disjointment of episode 3...Rebecca died at the hardware store giving birth,there were iniations from Eddies group taking clem in,its was dark,too dark for kids...
"She had never been portrayed so irredeemably and one-dimensional until this episode."
Exactly! In previous episodes we see her for who she truly is. If you play Season 2 from Episode 1 to the end of Episode 4 in one session it flows beautifully, and feels entirely consistent.
That's very disrespectful and belittling to her character. She had never been portrayed so irredeemably and one-dimensional until this episo… morede. And even then, she has a moment of usefulness, such as if you save her the first time, and she alerts Clem to the approaching walkers.
There is nothing to indicate that it's morally wrong to leave her behind. Everyone in the game and now these new interviews say that it was the "right" call to abandon her.
I never even got a 'disabled' vibe from her. She was just a sheltered girl... I don't understand why everyone says she was disabled. She had panic attacks, that's it. I've struggled with panic episodes and attacks since I was around three years old but that doesn't make me ill or disabled.
You can care about more than one thing at a time. Calling out the disrespectful treatment of a character who was largely interpreted as disabled is an important issue too.
I never even got a 'disabled' vibe from her. She was just a sheltered girl... I don't understand why everyone says she was disabled. She had… more panic attacks, that's it. I've struggled with panic episodes and attacks since I was around three years old but that doesn't make me ill or disabled.
It's full of idiots who turn everything into a social justice issue and think that they're actually making a difference. They take offence towards pretty much anything.
Now that is what I would consider offensive. People don't have panic attacks because they're mentally ill or brain-damaged... People have them when they focus on negatives and can't stop thinking about their fate. It's a downwards spiral that goes on and on... The more you think about it, the more you worry. It all piles on until you break down and can barely breathe.
It was a rhetorical question but yeah I just don't think it's right for people to suddenly decide they can write off valid criticism just be… morecause it comes from a place with the reputation of going overboard. That doesn't make what they have to say automatically not worth listening to.
Well, Tumblr has brought up some pretty stupid stuff in the past. People from Tumblr agreeing with something or bringing something up doesn't automatically make it wrong though.
This is what happens when check-your-privilege socialjusticewarrioring ideology make it to gaming communities.
Then the hunt for -isms and moral inquisition is on, with "guilty until proven innocent" as fundamental principle, mind-reading of programmers' intentions (assuming the worst, always), etc...
Nope. I'm not bothered either. But everyone seems intent on attacking Telltale's every move and convincing themselves that the company is so… moreme kind of neo-Nazi, racist, misogynistic, ableist corporation that seeks to kidnap and rape everyone's wives and children.
Telltale's people actually said "I also find it interesting that there are people who're... I've been reading that people are satisfied with slapping Sarah... You only get that action if you're going to save her as the last thing you can do. Like "Oh, you want to slap her?" But you have to want her to be around at the same time."
I don't think you're understanding my problem here. In Telltale's Playing Dead interview, they talked about how it was so funny that you hav… moree to slap Sarah because so many people wanted to do that so badly, but in order to do that you have to actually save her. That was an offensive thing to say and people defended them from this, "They didn't mean to be offensive, they were just discussing opinions of other people!" This really throws that out the window.
You've got me on this one. They should have at least shown everyone reacting in pure horror as she was eaten alive... Maybe have someone throw up or burst into tears... But other than that I personally see it as the group trying to move on and forget it happened so they can focus on what matters.
For the situation they were put into there was nothing they could do they had to deal with the matters at hand first and then grieve. Characters did react, each character had the facial expression of concern and determination to make sure that didn't happen. Jane also acknowledged Sarah's death by apologizing to Clem and you had the chance to tell her off or accept it.
Jane did also leave after the events because she was terrified and didn't want the same thing to happen to Clem.
"It's shit writing for a character to matter?"
No, it's shit writing for a character to be portrayed as one thing forced down my thr… moreoat rather than a multi-faceted individual.
"Agreed, and they did that until episode 4 when they suddenly tossed it out the window for nothing."
It wasn't for nothing. Someone incredibly innocent and helpless died before Clementine. That'll affect her in future, I feel...
"How is her death portrayed like this? No one ever mentions her death unless it's putting her down. No one ever talks about her as anything but a useless burden and a liability."
Not everything has to be portrayed in a certain way. The player gets to take what happened and make it affect Clementine in their own way. Clem was undeniably upset by it and so I'm gonna make it influence her.
"Exactly. They are doing what they can to make THEMSELVES feel better about it. How is that anything to do with Sarah h… [view original content]
This is what happens when check-your-privilege socialjusticewarrioring ideology make it to gaming communities.
Then the hunt for -isms an… mored moral inquisition is on, with "guilty until proven innocent" as fundamental principle, mind-reading of programmers' intentions (assuming the worst, always), etc...
This is a plague at every level of society.
If that was Telltale's intention, why can Clem never express that she was sorry for slapping her? Why does she appear angry as she's doing i… moret? It's not portrayed as being in Sarah's best interests.
It shouldn't have even worked in the first place. When Carlos slapped Sarah, she almost had a meltdown. But now it suddenly works?
Sarah's situation is never portrayed as being a tragic or sad at all. She is only ever treated as a burden, useless, and beyond hope of saving.
The only reason "Telltale" made Sarah unworthy of life is because you see her that way.
Numerous times before her death they made it clear "Find the others" and when you find her in a room with Luke who's probably been trying to calm her down all day/morning and hasn't been able to do anything. When you try a calm and collected "spilling your heart out" Sarah doesn't react, or still doesn't do anything. She was set up from the beginning to be this way "If she knew what was out there she would cease to function."
If you say she was poorly written then quit defending a poorly written character.
Telltale keeps pushing us to believe that Sarah was unworthy of living. There is nothing to counter that in the episode.
Showing how her death reflects upon them and nothing else is making it all about them.
Apparently a lot of people missed the Playing Dead for Episode 4...long story short Telltale basically thought it was the funniest shit ever… more to force players into slapping Sarah if they wanted to save her.
And now the name of that file comes to light and it's called " Clem_Bitch _Slap".
Ah Telltale I remember when you used to put out quality content, what the hell happened to you people?
EDIT-
Had to trudge through that cesspool again, but here you go people:
http://walkingdead.wikia.com/wiki/Playing_Dead?file=Why%27d_They_Have_to_Die%3F_-_The_Walking_Dead_Season_2_Episode_4
4:20-4:34
Fiction isn't obligated to be realistic. When I experience fictional works, I want to be satisfied. Sarah's 2nd death reeked of shitty writing and could have been handled much better.
To be honest, I found Sarah's death in the trailer park to be...pretty realistic.
You don't go from being a traumatized wreck, to being a giant beefcake bad ass in real life. And in a zombie apocalypse...that is a death sentence.
One of my friends asked me what I used to think of his GF awhile back and in a knee jerk reaction I said "She was a bitch."
He still claims I'm wrong even though I used it in past tense and after he's called her a bitch about five times.
You see, I got into Mass Effect pretty late. So I already had all the DLC for all three games.
Maybe it's just me, but the Leviathan DLC and Extended cut DLC made the ending really good,to me at least.
1) There are zombies fast approaching. She isn't moving. Nothing else has worked. Would you calmly slap her? Clem's about to become chow if she doesn't leave. So, I think an angry look is quite justified.
2) Sometimes not stating something is the epitome of good writing. I hate the term personally and I hate the 'rule' as I find people take it too far, but there's something called show, don't tell. Also, there's a lot of value in leaving things to a reader's intrepetration (can't be bothered checking the spelling).
3) There are multiple things you can take from Sarah.
3.1) She's sheltered.
3.2) She's possibly got disabilities.
3.3) Carlos says she will cease to function.
3.4) We have the opportunity to teach her how to shoot. She ends up helping Clem in the cabin when Carver visits. This implies she's capable of being of use, as does the fact she recognises she should learn how to use a gun.
3.5) At the camp, Sarah gets multiple people into trouble in episode 3.
3.6) When her father dies, this is the trigger for her pretty much losing it, though she was also pretty bad when told to trim the plants, leading to Reggie's death.
3.7) Nick dies trying to get her to safety. Luke is at a loss what to do with her. Zombies are fast approaching and slapping her is the only way to get her out. She did, as Carlos said, begin to cease functioning. However, I'd have to play the episode again to see if she started coming around again after you saved her, just before her death. I can't remember. But even if she was, we move on . . .
3.8) For me, Sarah is the perfect representation of some of the season's themes. Some people can't be saved and it's a dog eat dog world. Sometimes, no matter how much we may want to and no matter how much a person may want to improve, it's still not enough in the end. Sometimes, as Jane says, it's also best to leave people behind and some people cannot be saved. This doesn't apply to disabled people. It applies to everyone. Everyone is different and we'd all react in different ways. Some of us would become true survivors, hunters and others would want to die because they don't want to live in the Walking Dead's world. That is just a few of the ways that people might be affected.
4) On Telltale laughing, let's say I created the character of Ben. If I was queried about his death in an interview and I chuckled very slightly and smiled a bit while stating 'oh yeah, plenty of people wanted to see him gone. I thought now was the correct time', would it mean I took glee in writing his death? No, and I highly doubt Telltale's writers were cackling with laughter.
5) As I mentioned before, sometimes not stating something is the perfect example of good writing. But I'll digress from this point and say why the characters may not have said much about it. If you're living in the Walking Dead's world, you'd be used to death. You'd grow weary of it and it's sometimes best to not dwell on it. As for Luke screwing Jane, I personally took it as him seeking a momentary escape from everything or 'letting a load off'. Also, I could be wrong because it was such a long time ago now, but didn't Carly only get a few lines dedicated to her death? In any case, Telltale only has a limited amount of time to tell these stories and always remember that you're not seeing everything that's said. I daresay that the characters would have grieved off-screen or talked about it, even if said grieving was something they kept to themselves. (Which, as many guys would likely know, is a common trait among us. We keep a lot built in, or at least I do and I don't get emotional much. No idea how I'd react in The Walking Dead's world) Regarding Rebecca, the baby and not mourning Sarah's death too . . . Imagine you're living in The Walking Dead's world. Yes, Sarah just died, but a baby has just been born. It's a beacon of light in a world gone to hell, something good for once. And I think it's quite suitable for Rebecca to only think of her baby in that instance.
Anyhow, I'll end this here. I won't be replying back. I'm honestly getting tired of all this complaining and it really feels like people just want to find things to complain about.
PS: @Hazzer, if you read this, was it you who mentioned 'finding it hard to give a damn about a fictional character when there are plenty of real world issues to care about' in another thread a few days ago? If so, I wanted to reply to that a few days back, but couldn't find it again. It mirrors my thoughts perfectly. Sorry for asking this here too, but I just noticed you mention something similar on the next page. Guess I should have asked there though in a reply.
If that was Telltale's intention, why can Clem never express that she was sorry for slapping her? Why does she appear angry as she's doing i… moret? It's not portrayed as being in Sarah's best interests.
It shouldn't have even worked in the first place. When Carlos slapped Sarah, she almost had a meltdown. But now it suddenly works?
Sarah's situation is never portrayed as being a tragic or sad at all. She is only ever treated as a burden, useless, and beyond hope of saving.
If I'm watching Harry Potter then I want to be satisfied. But if I'm watching/playing something as tragic as The Road or The Walking Dead I want to be shocked and traumatized by the terrifying reality of what an apocalyptic event would be like.
Fiction isn't obligated to be realistic. When I experience fictional works, I want to be satisfied. Sarah's 2nd death reeked of shitty writing and could have been handled much better.
Barely anyone sees Sarah as a useless burden, because that idea isn't just completely stampeded into our heads.
This is untrue. Episode 4 did nothing to portray Sarah as anything but. Jane constantly compares her to Jaime, who she views as being unable and "not meant" to live. The story forces us to agree with this.
We also see her positive traits like kindness, innocence, and her potential to be a great survivor. The player decides whether she's a burden or not. Telltale give us the means to do that with detailed characterization.
This was only true until episode 4. Her good qualities are now downplayed or ignored. it was only before this episode that her character had strong focus and importance, with both strengths and weaknesses.
It was a sad ending to her life representing how innocence and helplessness leads to death.
There is nothing to indicate that her death represents this. The only purpose she has in episode 4 is to fulfill Jane's beliefs that people like Sarah are simply "not meant" to survive. The second time she dies, nobody even notices at all.
It will affect Clementine. It will influence her later decisions.
This is a poor excuse for poor writing. You can't project your view that her death was supposed to affect Clementine when there is no evidence to suggest that it does. And even if there was, that is poor writing. Characters do not exist simply for the benefit of other characters. In good writing they must be treated as their own person. Characters affect each other, they have importance in the story. They are not specifically built as important and significant only to be reduced to have no purpose other than characterization for somebody else.
I never saw anyone blame Sarah for how she was... No one called her a burden or useless. Not even Jane.
Jane does not recognize the value of Sarah as her own person. She insists that Sarah is bringing the group down, and draws constant parallels between her sister and Sarah. Jane says that both of them "had no regard for their own safety, or for ours." This is placing blame on them and acting as if it was their fault, or that they were being selfish, simply for being the way they are. Sarah and Jaime were not consciously making themselves a burden. Sarah does nothing to drag the group down. She wasn't one of their top fighters, but she did nothing to intentionally cause any harm to the group whatsoever.
By not focusing on one aspect of Sarah's personality and her being unique with her own back story, personality and ideals we are given the opportunity to make up our own minds about her. They don't portray her as simply 'the grieving innocent girl who needs saving' - She has much more depth than that...
You're misunderstanding me. I never said that Telltale should have made Sarah to be nothing more than "a young girl who needs saving". This would have been a wasteful and offensive reduction of her character as well. I'm saying that in this episode Telltale neglected to portray Sarah as she had been in previous episodes. She was no longer portrayed in a nuanced or respectful light. Instead the narrative only dehumanized her and used her as a way to prove Jane's offensive views to be correct.
Yes, it is up to the player. If it wasn't this would be more like a TV series than a game. My Clementine is depressed, pessimistic and is drastically losing hope and everything she says and does reflects this... She barely spoke to Sarah and shoved her away....I absolutely adore the freedom I have to mold Clementine's personality into what I want.
Your interpretation of Clem's character and the way you played her was satisfying and made sense to you, only because you had been playing Clem in a way that this episode allowed. But there was never any other side to this. What about the players who saw value in Sarah and disagreed with Jane's views? We are never given an opportunity to characterize this in Clem this episode, instead the narrative forces us to act in the same way you did.
So me beating myself up for not speaking to my dead grandfather enough makes me selfish? No. It's grief and regret induced by the death of someone loved.
That's a very different scenario. In a story, an author cannot neglect to show how something affects a character. That's not good writing. Failing to show how something affects a character does not make it realistic, it makes it unsatisfying and confusing.
"And that's what happened in episode 4. Over and over again Telltale forces you to think of Sarah as nothing more than useless, a burden, an… mored there is nothing to indicate that there may be a different side to this view."
You're missing the point of TWDG entirely. We're not forced to do anything. Barely anyone sees Sarah as a useless burden, because that idea isn't just completely stampeded into our heads. We also see her positive traits like kindness, innocence, and her potential to be a great survivor. The player decides whether she's a burden or not. Telltale give us the means to do that with detailed characterization.
"But it was for nothing. It was an offensive and unsatisfying end for a well-developed and sympathetic character. And it has minimal effects on anyone in the plot. Sarah is dead, and no one notices. No one ever said anything about her being innocent or helpless. They act like it's her fault, and for that she de… [view original content]
An expression of facial concern does not equate to good writing. And when did they ever show "determination to make sure that didn't happen"? And I'm sorry but "acknowledging Sarah's death" by one line saying that you're sorry Jane failed to save her because random plot plank smacked her in the face really doesn't do service to any of the characters.
You've got me on this one. They should have at least shown everyone reacting in pure horror as she was eaten alive... Maybe have someone thr… moreow up or burst into tears... But other than that I personally see it as the group trying to move on and forget it happened so they can focus on what matters.
For the situation they were put into there was nothing they could do they had to deal with the matters at hand first and then grieve. Characters did react, each character had the facial expression of concern and determination to make sure that didn't happen. Jane also acknowledged Sarah's death by apologizing to Clem and you had the chance to tell her off or accept it.
Jane did also leave after the events because she was terrified and didn't want the same thing to happen to Clem.
Exactly! In previous episodes we see her for who she truly is. If you play Season 2 from Episode 1 to the end of Episode 4 in one session it flows beautifully, and feels entirely consistent.
How is it flowing beautifully and consistently to suddenly reduce a significant character's role down to nothing, and to portray her wildly differently from all prior characterization? This was not a satisfying character arc, it may have been a logical result of events, but it was not satisfying or good writing in any way. Sarah had been a very focused and developed character until episode 4, but suddenly we are supposed to see her as nothing more than a liability, and her character has no purpose except to develop other characters. That's not beautiful writing. It's lazy.
"She had never been portrayed so irredeemably and one-dimensional until this episode."
Exactly! In previous episodes we see her for … morewho she truly is. If you play Season 2 from Episode 1 to the end of Episode 4 in one session it flows beautifully, and feels entirely consistent.
Barely anyone sees Sarah as a useless burden, because that idea isn't just completely stampeded into our heads.
This is untrue. Epis… moreode 4 did nothing to portray Sarah as anything but. Jane constantly compares her to Jaime, who she views as being unable and "not meant" to live. The story forces us to agree with this.
We also see her positive traits like kindness, innocence, and her potential to be a great survivor. The player decides whether she's a burden or not. Telltale give us the means to do that with detailed characterization.
This was only true until episode 4. Her good qualities are now downplayed or ignored. it was only before this episode that her character had strong focus and importance, with both strengths and weaknesses.
It was a sad ending to her life representing how innocence and helplessness leads to death.
There is nothing to indicate that her death represents this. The only purpose she ha… [view original content]
I think you might have to watch the interview again. They actually said "I think it's also interesting that there [were] so many people who were.. you know I've been hearing, were satisfied with slapping Sarah, but you only get that option if you're going to save her. I think that's like the last thing that you can do. And so it's just like Oh well you wanted to slap her, but in order to that you have to want her to be around at the same time [laughs]."
Call it nit-picking but there are subtle differences there that indicate their attitude toward her more clearly. They said earlier that people in the office and online were all hating Sarah, and they all wanted to kill her. There was no other side shown to this, no sympathy or respect shown toward Sarah at all.
Telltale's people actually said "I also find it interesting that there are people who're... I've been reading that people are satisfied with… more slapping Sarah... You only get that action if you're going to save her as the last thing you can do. Like "Oh, you want to slap her?" But you have to want her to be around at the same time."
Quoted word for word from the interview.
Comments
It's full of idiots who turn everything into a social justice issue and think that they're actually making a difference. They take offence towards pretty much anything.
I don't know what you've got with your kid stuff. Walking Dead is still one of the darkest games I've played. In Harm's Way ending is super violent and dark and Amid the Ruins is depressing. You're exaggerating a lot.
If you look at season one, you could argue that it was rewritten as well. The fourth slide with Kenny, Christa and Lee never happened.
Calm down. Criticism is okay, but right now, your arguments are starting to get ridiculous.
Exactly! In previous episodes we see her for who she truly is. If you play Season 2 from Episode 1 to the end of Episode 4 in one session it flows beautifully, and feels entirely consistent.
I never even got a 'disabled' vibe from her. She was just a sheltered girl... I don't understand why everyone says she was disabled. She had panic attacks, that's it. I've struggled with panic episodes and attacks since I was around three years old but that doesn't make me ill or disabled.
but could be defined as being disabled
Thanks, you are such a sweetheart...
Apparently I'm a idiot who has a tumblr art blog...this ^ user suure hates tumblr
Now that is what I would consider offensive. People don't have panic attacks because they're mentally ill or brain-damaged... People have them when they focus on negatives and can't stop thinking about their fate. It's a downwards spiral that goes on and on... The more you think about it, the more you worry. It all piles on until you break down and can barely breathe.
Signnnnn
Another user blaming tumblr for having opinions...Apparently 4chan never complains about anything ever...
Also...really...just because it's from tumblr makes it wrong? That logic.
Question: Are you sure this is from Amid the ruins? It could also be when Clem slaps Walter for letting Nick get killed.
Understandable choice that's for sure. I lose brain cells every time I visit this site.
Hey, I use Tumblr a lot as well...I was referring to the SJWs there...
I think people are taking this shit to seriously, it's a fucking audio file for god's sake calm the hell down.
I never said it was wrong, I just disagree with some of the complaints being posted in this thread.
Or, you can open up the gamefiles and check.
Yes. ATR game files only. 100% However some people say it's the same for when she slaps Walter.
SJWs go back to tumblr
I don't even know...
This is what happens when check-your-privilege socialjusticewarrioring ideology make it to gaming communities.
Then the hunt for -isms and moral inquisition is on, with "guilty until proven innocent" as fundamental principle, mind-reading of programmers' intentions (assuming the worst, always), etc...
This is a plague at every level of society.
Telltale's people actually said "I also find it interesting that there are people who're... I've been reading that people are satisfied with slapping Sarah... You only get that action if you're going to save her as the last thing you can do. Like "Oh, you want to slap her?" But you have to want her to be around at the same time."
Quoted word for word from the interview.
For the situation they were put into there was nothing they could do they had to deal with the matters at hand first and then grieve. Characters did react, each character had the facial expression of concern and determination to make sure that didn't happen. Jane also acknowledged Sarah's death by apologizing to Clem and you had the chance to tell her off or accept it.
Jane did also leave after the events because she was terrified and didn't want the same thing to happen to Clem.
More like "guilty even if proven innocent"
Clem doesn't need to apologise she saved her.
Indeed.
Well, it's not like it's named incorrectly.
Around where I live that was indeed what one would call a bitch slap.
I love Sarah, but you guys need to stop overreacting.
The only reason "Telltale" made Sarah unworthy of life is because you see her that way.
Numerous times before her death they made it clear "Find the others" and when you find her in a room with Luke who's probably been trying to calm her down all day/morning and hasn't been able to do anything. When you try a calm and collected "spilling your heart out" Sarah doesn't react, or still doesn't do anything. She was set up from the beginning to be this way "If she knew what was out there she would cease to function."
If you say she was poorly written then quit defending a poorly written character.
They called it interesting and laughed at the people who chose to slap her.
Fiction isn't obligated to be realistic. When I experience fictional works, I want to be satisfied. Sarah's 2nd death reeked of shitty writing and could have been handled much better.
I don't think it was directed at Sarah completely. According to this video, nine out of ten bitch slaps are men slapping men.
:P
One of my friends asked me what I used to think of his GF awhile back and in a knee jerk reaction I said "She was a bitch."
He still claims I'm wrong even though I used it in past tense and after he's called her a bitch about five times.
Yeah, same with me.
Look . . .
1) There are zombies fast approaching. She isn't moving. Nothing else has worked. Would you calmly slap her? Clem's about to become chow if she doesn't leave. So, I think an angry look is quite justified.
2) Sometimes not stating something is the epitome of good writing. I hate the term personally and I hate the 'rule' as I find people take it too far, but there's something called show, don't tell. Also, there's a lot of value in leaving things to a reader's intrepetration (can't be bothered checking the spelling).
3) There are multiple things you can take from Sarah.
3.1) She's sheltered.
3.2) She's possibly got disabilities.
3.3) Carlos says she will cease to function.
3.4) We have the opportunity to teach her how to shoot. She ends up helping Clem in the cabin when Carver visits. This implies she's capable of being of use, as does the fact she recognises she should learn how to use a gun.
3.5) At the camp, Sarah gets multiple people into trouble in episode 3.
3.6) When her father dies, this is the trigger for her pretty much losing it, though she was also pretty bad when told to trim the plants, leading to Reggie's death.
3.7) Nick dies trying to get her to safety. Luke is at a loss what to do with her. Zombies are fast approaching and slapping her is the only way to get her out. She did, as Carlos said, begin to cease functioning. However, I'd have to play the episode again to see if she started coming around again after you saved her, just before her death. I can't remember. But even if she was, we move on . . .
3.8) For me, Sarah is the perfect representation of some of the season's themes. Some people can't be saved and it's a dog eat dog world. Sometimes, no matter how much we may want to and no matter how much a person may want to improve, it's still not enough in the end. Sometimes, as Jane says, it's also best to leave people behind and some people cannot be saved. This doesn't apply to disabled people. It applies to everyone. Everyone is different and we'd all react in different ways. Some of us would become true survivors, hunters and others would want to die because they don't want to live in the Walking Dead's world. That is just a few of the ways that people might be affected.
4) On Telltale laughing, let's say I created the character of Ben. If I was queried about his death in an interview and I chuckled very slightly and smiled a bit while stating 'oh yeah, plenty of people wanted to see him gone. I thought now was the correct time', would it mean I took glee in writing his death? No, and I highly doubt Telltale's writers were cackling with laughter.
5) As I mentioned before, sometimes not stating something is the perfect example of good writing. But I'll digress from this point and say why the characters may not have said much about it. If you're living in the Walking Dead's world, you'd be used to death. You'd grow weary of it and it's sometimes best to not dwell on it. As for Luke screwing Jane, I personally took it as him seeking a momentary escape from everything or 'letting a load off'. Also, I could be wrong because it was such a long time ago now, but didn't Carly only get a few lines dedicated to her death? In any case, Telltale only has a limited amount of time to tell these stories and always remember that you're not seeing everything that's said. I daresay that the characters would have grieved off-screen or talked about it, even if said grieving was something they kept to themselves. (Which, as many guys would likely know, is a common trait among us. We keep a lot built in, or at least I do and I don't get emotional much. No idea how I'd react in The Walking Dead's world) Regarding Rebecca, the baby and not mourning Sarah's death too . . . Imagine you're living in The Walking Dead's world. Yes, Sarah just died, but a baby has just been born. It's a beacon of light in a world gone to hell, something good for once. And I think it's quite suitable for Rebecca to only think of her baby in that instance.
Anyhow, I'll end this here. I won't be replying back. I'm honestly getting tired of all this complaining and it really feels like people just want to find things to complain about.
PS: @Hazzer, if you read this, was it you who mentioned 'finding it hard to give a damn about a fictional character when there are plenty of real world issues to care about' in another thread a few days ago? If so, I wanted to reply to that a few days back, but couldn't find it again. It mirrors my thoughts perfectly. Sorry for asking this here too, but I just noticed you mention something similar on the next page. Guess I should have asked there though in a reply.
If I'm watching Harry Potter then I want to be satisfied. But if I'm watching/playing something as tragic as The Road or The Walking Dead I want to be shocked and traumatized by the terrifying reality of what an apocalyptic event would be like.
Is this a surprise? They obviously hated her.
This is untrue. Episode 4 did nothing to portray Sarah as anything but. Jane constantly compares her to Jaime, who she views as being unable and "not meant" to live. The story forces us to agree with this.
This was only true until episode 4. Her good qualities are now downplayed or ignored. it was only before this episode that her character had strong focus and importance, with both strengths and weaknesses.
There is nothing to indicate that her death represents this. The only purpose she has in episode 4 is to fulfill Jane's beliefs that people like Sarah are simply "not meant" to survive. The second time she dies, nobody even notices at all.
This is a poor excuse for poor writing. You can't project your view that her death was supposed to affect Clementine when there is no evidence to suggest that it does. And even if there was, that is poor writing. Characters do not exist simply for the benefit of other characters. In good writing they must be treated as their own person. Characters affect each other, they have importance in the story. They are not specifically built as important and significant only to be reduced to have no purpose other than characterization for somebody else.
Jane does not recognize the value of Sarah as her own person. She insists that Sarah is bringing the group down, and draws constant parallels between her sister and Sarah. Jane says that both of them "had no regard for their own safety, or for ours." This is placing blame on them and acting as if it was their fault, or that they were being selfish, simply for being the way they are. Sarah and Jaime were not consciously making themselves a burden. Sarah does nothing to drag the group down. She wasn't one of their top fighters, but she did nothing to intentionally cause any harm to the group whatsoever.
You're misunderstanding me. I never said that Telltale should have made Sarah to be nothing more than "a young girl who needs saving". This would have been a wasteful and offensive reduction of her character as well. I'm saying that in this episode Telltale neglected to portray Sarah as she had been in previous episodes. She was no longer portrayed in a nuanced or respectful light. Instead the narrative only dehumanized her and used her as a way to prove Jane's offensive views to be correct.
Your interpretation of Clem's character and the way you played her was satisfying and made sense to you, only because you had been playing Clem in a way that this episode allowed. But there was never any other side to this. What about the players who saw value in Sarah and disagreed with Jane's views? We are never given an opportunity to characterize this in Clem this episode, instead the narrative forces us to act in the same way you did.
That's a very different scenario. In a story, an author cannot neglect to show how something affects a character. That's not good writing. Failing to show how something affects a character does not make it realistic, it makes it unsatisfying and confusing.
An expression of facial concern does not equate to good writing. And when did they ever show "determination to make sure that didn't happen"? And I'm sorry but "acknowledging Sarah's death" by one line saying that you're sorry Jane failed to save her because random plot plank smacked her in the face really doesn't do service to any of the characters.
How is it flowing beautifully and consistently to suddenly reduce a significant character's role down to nothing, and to portray her wildly differently from all prior characterization? This was not a satisfying character arc, it may have been a logical result of events, but it was not satisfying or good writing in any way. Sarah had been a very focused and developed character until episode 4, but suddenly we are supposed to see her as nothing more than a liability, and her character has no purpose except to develop other characters. That's not beautiful writing. It's lazy.
You guys are having one hell of a discussion. Great to read. It's good to see people voicing there opinion without hate. Go on. And take my upvotes.
I think you might have to watch the interview again. They actually said "I think it's also interesting that there [were] so many people who were.. you know I've been hearing, were satisfied with slapping Sarah, but you only get that option if you're going to save her. I think that's like the last thing that you can do. And so it's just like Oh well you wanted to slap her, but in order to that you have to want her to be around at the same time [laughs]."
Call it nit-picking but there are subtle differences there that indicate their attitude toward her more clearly. They said earlier that people in the office and online were all hating Sarah, and they all wanted to kill her. There was no other side shown to this, no sympathy or respect shown toward Sarah at all.
Because trying to improve the offensive views of people doesn't have a place in the real world, right?