Lol WHAT? Since when did i ever talk about the newborn aside from the fact that It was born silent and near still and could have easily been… more dead yet he didn't presume prematurely that it was destined to die.
Also Larry had a heart attack but he wasn't dead. people are resuscitated from worst situations and If Episode 1's end in the Drug store and Episode 3 of their continuous raid of the drug store, Basic storytelling can easily tell us that He had a decent supply of Nitroglycerin pills during Episode 2 or else he wouldn't have been helping with hammering walls and making blockades. What Kenny did was MURDER. And just because Ben felt RESPONSIBLE for what happened to at the Motor Inn doesn't mean he was. And if your defending Kenny being REASONABLY angry at him and WANTING him dead (who else would leave a kid to die/ want his death if not a murderer) Then REASON would state that Kenny should have seen that ben was no more responsible than… [view original content]
Speculating that the bandits are crackheads because they need/threatened Ben for medical supplies Despite the fact that Jolene quite literally told them how dangerous said bandits were and how they treated those in their group, yet you say Ben is suddenly "responsible" for his actions. Who said he wasn't? But he was not to blame for Duck getting bit because if he didn't comply, Those bandits would have overrun their camp sooner/whilst Kenny and Lee being away and duck's fate would be far worse with the RV not being fixed at all.
So no, your reasoning is quite flawed. And you can't quite compare Kenny and Lee with loss, but nowhere in time did LILLY who lost her father from Kenny dropping a goddamn salt lick on his head want to outright Murder Kenny despite what he did. So kenny doing that to Clem is hypocritical.
yet you say Kenny about to shoot clementine (when the camera quite literally pans his contemplation and the gun in his hand as a danger to clementine in HER POV) is out of reach? Wow, A+ Reasoning.
You claimed that Kenny's interactions with the baby were "creepy" in the comment I specifically replied to, I disproved your claim.
Did y… moreou even read my comment? Because if you had you would know that people cannot be resuscitated from a heart attack that far along without the proper equipment handy. And what do you mean "worst situations", they're in the middle of a fucking apocalypse, what can possibly be worse than that? Nitroglycerin pills are not magical "make it all better" pills. Nitroglycerin pills are for when a person is experiencing symptoms of a heart attack, specifically to prevent those symptoms from evolving into a full blown heart attack. Larry wasn't experiencing symptoms in the meat locker, he was actually having a heart attack. Even if he had nitroglycerin pills on him(which I doubt he did from that raid they did like 2 months ago, also they left most of their supplies back at the motel anyway) they wouldn't have helped … [view original content]
I felt bad for Kenny and I was more than willing to pull him out of the despair he was currently in. I was willing and determined because, like Clem says "I need you" and Kenny knows that he needs her too. That's how I feel and that's how I will always feel about Kenny, I'm not saying he's perfect but he is my friend none the less.
It's pretty obvious that they're junkies, why else would they be so desperate to only get prescription pills/hard drugs from both the St. Johns, and the motel group? And imo, who else but crackheads would think it's a good idea to ambush people at the fence with frickin bow and arrows? Not to mention, that one of the bandits actually shoots one of the guys on his side over an argument they were having. And just the fact that they completely lose their shit when one delivery doesn't show up on time, and start shooting up the motel doesn't make you think the bandits aren't right in the head, and were most likely on drugs? Ok then. You implied that Ben was not the majority at fault, but he is. Ben may have good intentions, he is very naive, but that doesn't lessen his huge involvement in the results. Ben had been making these trade offs with the bandits for a while, they'd been at the motel for a good 2-3 months. He was stealing from his own group based on the assumption that the bandits had his friends, and the only proof he had of this was the bandit's word. And not once did he think to tell his group about these crazies, there is no excuse for that. And how exactly was Kenny supposed to speed up fixing the RV with the small amount of tools they had at hand? He was making due with what they had, and I doubt anyone else had any knowledge of how to fix a vehicle, so he was doing this all by himself. I also doubt that Kenny is an expert in fixing RVs, so he was just doing the best he could. Not to mention, that Kenny had no way of knowing that they were about to be attacked by bandits, because Ben didn't warn them.
I believe that Lilly knew deep down that Larry was going to die no matter what they did, what she was angry about was the brutal manner in which it was done. But if you look around them in the meat locker, what else could they have used to eliminate Larry as a threat? It was very gruesome, but it was the only option they had. Actually she does murder someone, do the names Carley or Doug ring a bell for you? And saying she was aiming for Ben doesn't make her look any better.
Again, you don't seem to have read my comment in it's entirety. From Clem's pov, she is nervous because she knows she was there when Sarita was bit, and she's also never been on the receiving end of Kenny's anger before. She doesn't know like Lee does, that Kenny is mostly talk when he's angry and just needs to vent. Clem only knows how the rest of the group has reacted to Kenny, but none of those members really know Kenny that well. I also said that I write off that camera sequence as fuel to the Kenny vs Luke battle, at that point Kenny looked better than Luke, they needed to even the playing fields. I know you're trying to be sarcastic, but I'll take that as a compliment.
Speculating that the bandits are crackheads because they need/threatened Ben for medical supplies Despite the fact that Jolene quite litera… morelly told them how dangerous said bandits were and how they treated those in their group, yet you say Ben is suddenly "responsible" for his actions. Who said he wasn't? But he was not to blame for Duck getting bit because if he didn't comply, Those bandits would have overrun their camp sooner/whilst Kenny and Lee being away and duck's fate would be far worse with the RV not being fixed at all.
So no, your reasoning is quite flawed. And you can't quite compare Kenny and Lee with loss, but nowhere in time did LILLY who lost her father from Kenny dropping a goddamn salt lick on his head want to outright Murder Kenny despite what he did. So kenny doing that to Clem is hypocritical.
yet you say Kenny about to shoot clementine (when the camera quite literally pans his contemplation and the gun in his hand as a danger to clementine in HER POV) is out of reach? Wow, A+ Reasoning.
** If you talk to Kenny after Larry's death, he has the gall to insinuate that Lilly will probably help the St. Johns kill them now because of what he did. Like, are you kidding me Kenny? Do you really think Lilly is so evil that she'd actually side with a bunch of cannibals? She is grieving because of her loved one's gruesome demise, not plotting your demise like some kind of Sunday morning cartoon villaines**
If you side with Kenny in the Larry situation, Lilly will not come to your aid when the St. John brother tries to electrocute Lee on the electric fence. She has a gun in hand, she could shoot at him to stop him, but she scowls and looks away. And, if the player isn't fast enough, Lee will die by the St. John's hand because Lilly refused to save him from his fate as payback for his part in killing Larry.
So, yeah - Kenny called it.
Everyone gives Clem shit if she calls Kenny an asshole after his reaction to a loved one's death, but it was perfectly fine for Kenny to be an ass to Lilly after she lost a loved one? And if you didn't help him, he constantly rubs it in Lee's face that "you're useless", or "you've never helped me", or "I did what I had to, and you know it, you moron".
How is he supposed to treat her when she's putting the rest of the group at risk? She's not getting any sleep, their supplies are low, the town is tapped out and they're repeatedly attacked by bandits. Lilly wrongfully believes they're safe where they're at, and stubbornly refuses to budge - refusing to listen to anyone elses opinion on the matter of leaving.
And I can understand Kenny's frustration with others if they look down on him due to Larry's death. Looking back on the situation, what choice did they have? Larry was unresponsive - no heartbeat, and not breathing. It doesn't take long for a person to expire after that,m and we've seen how quickly a person can come back from the dead as a killing machine. If you were in that situation, would you take the risk of this guy coming back and killing four innocent people, just to spare his daughter's feelings or are you going to do a very difficult thing by putting an end to the very real danger - which results in not only saving four innocent lives, but to buy some time in order to figure out a way to escape the prison and save other innocent people?
Seriously, Kenny gets way too much flak for using his head and never received a word of thanks for his part in rescuing them all from a very dangerous situation.
This is coming from someone who hates Kenny, but even I have to admit that killing Larry was necessary. He suffered a massive heart attack a… morend there were no supplies or equipment to help him. Like Lee said, "he was going, one way or another."
However, that does not mean I agree with how Kenny handled the situation at all. Outside of a brief, knee-jerk apology, he never ever ever shows a shred of remorse for what he did. Even if it was necessary, couldn't he have the courtesy to at least treat Lilly with some semblance of sensitivity immediately after his father's death? If you talk to Kenny after Larry's death, he has the gall to insinuate that Lilly will probably help the St. Johns kill them now because of what he did. Like, are you kidding me Kenny? Do you really think Lilly is so evil that she'd actually side with a bunch of cannibals? She is grieving because of her loved one's gruesome demise, not plotting your demise like some kind of… [view original content]
then later after he cooled off he should of told clem he was sorry he never tells clem he was sorry for blaming her for sareta's death in t… morehe tent he can say sorry but not for sareta just for what he just said so he put another death on her she is blaming herself for lee omid reggie sarah thanks kenneth ........oh and i didn't cut off her arm i killed the walker
In a post apocalyptic world where the death rise and eat the living, Larry is not considered a threat? Are you kidding me?
Larry- suffering a massive heart attack, not breathing and having no pulse - inside a locked meat locker with four innocent people? He's about the biggest threat they could have in that situation.
As for Carver - it is murder - but a justifiable one. The guy was a mad man, and they all saw just how fucked up this guy was. He had every intention of killing every last one of them for daring to try and leave his compound/question his authority. What do you think would have happened if Kenny didn't kill Carver? That he'd let them go peacefully? They'd be hunted down and be picked off - one by one.
I dont consider what Kenny did to Larry self defense when Larry wasnt even moving. At that moment, he was no threat whatsoever to Kenny. As for not being capable of murder, Carver?
He ditched himself rather than just put a bullet in Ben and continue helping Lee save Clementine. Lee can tell him off for his unnecessarily dramatic 'sacrifice', which you can imagine is due to his suicidal urges. Kenny doesn't think killing himself is a brave move, yet he puts himself into dangerous situations in hopes that his death will come at someone else's hands.
That's a very interesting interpretation! and I can't agree more. It makes sense for Kenny to be completely mad at you if you cut Sarita's arm, but not when he blames you for killing the zombie that attacked his girlfriend.
I will admit he could of put a bullet in Ben's head and went up with Lee, but it was a moment of redemption for him to prove to Katja that he still has some humanity in him.
I still feel it was a powerful scene though regardless of how illogical it was.
He ditched himself rather than just put a bullet in Ben and continue helping Lee save Clementine. Lee can tell him off for his unnecessaril… morey dramatic 'sacrifice', which you can imagine is due to his suicidal urges. Kenny doesn't think killing himself is a brave move, yet he puts himself into dangerous situations in hopes that his death will come at someone else's hands.
You wouldn't trust someone willing to sacrifice himself for your sake(ep5)? take the blame for you(ep3)? Invite you in his group without do… moreubts (ep2)?? someone who you've known longer than any other person in your group and has done an awfult lot for you ever since season 1 just because he yelled at you in a moment where he was consumed by grief, anger and despair?.
Wow.
I'm not against Kenny, I know he was hurt and angry, I'm against people who say "Poor Kenny he was a dick but he was just sad, Luke's the one to blame, he put his friends' lives at risk just to have sex!". Well, they both made mistakes so don't treat Luke like he did it on purpose or he didn't care about the group.
Im sorry but I did not have the same experience you do, therefore I dont feel the same way. My experiences with Kenny have been anger and be… moretrayal so I dont feel compelled to justify his every action. Him doing one or two selfless things for a change doesn't erase everything else. IMO, refusing to help my Lee look for Clementine when Lee was dying and Clem was taken by a man who could have done god knows what to her, is unforgivable. So I understand he's hurting, but a great man? Again, not in my estimation.
I guess some are more empathic than others. I can't hold it against him, I really can't. Knowing all what he's been trough. It's like Lee lost his own Clementine three times! it's completely awful and his reaction is human and raw, the important thing is that he doesn't hold it against you as the episode advances and he can even apologize.
I take it as an unfortunate way to manage his anger, but I can't blame or dislike him for it. And I know Clementine can't either, considering the dialogue options she has
"I don't want to lose you,"
"I need you."
I think she'd be just as sad as me if something were to happen to Kenny.
Exactly!
I'm so glad to see someone calling things; for how they really are.
What you described, is exactly the same way I feel about the entire affair.
Kenny, as far as Larry goes, did what was probably needed to protect the group.
And considering how Lilly responded when Lee was in peril, she proved Kenny right, about her siding with the St. John's against them.
Kenny knew exactly who Lilly was.
And Lilly further proved what she was, when she stole the Rv, and left the group to die.
And when you think about how much Kenny has lost, his state of mind, being grieved; possibly even being unhinged after everything that's happened to him, is understandable.
For those reasons, I had Clementine be consoling towards Kenny.
I let Kenny express his feelings, without interrupting him, and then had Clementine remind Kenny that he helps her constantly.
To remind him, that he's not useless, and that he can still help others.
That he still has something to contribute.
Just hopefully he survives to season 3, and is eventually able to fully recognize how valuable he is to the group.
That he will always be needed.
The only thing I'd like to see change about Kenny, is for him to develop greater self-control, and learn to compromise with others.
** If you talk to Kenny after Larry's death, he has the gall to insinuate that Lilly will probably help the St. Johns kill them now because … moreof what he did. Like, are you kidding me Kenny? Do you really think Lilly is so evil that she'd actually side with a bunch of cannibals? She is grieving because of her loved one's gruesome demise, not plotting your demise like some kind of Sunday morning cartoon villaines**
If you side with Kenny in the Larry situation, Lilly will not come to your aid when the St. John brother tries to electrocute Lee on the electric fence. She has a gun in hand, she could shoot at him to stop him, but she scowls and looks away. And, if the player isn't fast enough, Lee will die by the St. John's hand because Lilly refused to save him from his fate as payback for his part in killing Larry.
So, yeah - Kenny called it.
Everyone gives Clem shit if she calls Kenny an asshole after his reaction to a loved one's death,… [view original content]
I wish: "I don't want to lose you," or, "I need you Kenny," had been dialogue options for Clementine.
I think it would've done Kenny a lot of good; to hear that from Clementine.
I think it would've given a stronger reason to keep going.
I guess some are more empathic than others. I can't hold it against him, I really can't. Knowing all what he's been trough. It's like Lee lo… morest his own Clementine three times! it's completely awful and his reaction is human and raw, the important thing is that he doesn't hold it against you as the episode advances and he can even apologize.
I take it as an unfortunate way to manage his anger, but I can't blame or dislike him for it. And I know Clementine can't either, considering the dialogue options she has
"I don't want to lose you,"
"I need you."
I think she'd be just as sad as me if something were to happen to Kenny.
You really can't compare how Kenny dealt with his grief to Luke's. Kenny isolated himself for maybe an hour, but still stepped up when he was needed. Luke neglected his duties that he assigned to himself. He chose one over the other, Kenny gets a lot angrier than Luke, but he's never disappeared and not been there to assist the group in their time of need. (excluding determinant moments in season 1) Are you saying that Luke had sex by accident?
I'm not against Kenny, I know he was hurt and angry, I'm against people who say "Poor Kenny he was a dick but he was just sad, Luke's the on… moree to blame, he put his friends' lives at risk just to have sex!". Well, they both made mistakes so don't treat Luke like he did it on purpose or he didn't care about the group.
I didn't say Luke had sex by accident, I said he chose a veeeeery wrong time for that (not on purpose), but he's not a bad person or a dick who likes leaving his friends in danger.
You really can't compare how Kenny dealt with his grief to Luke's. Kenny isolated himself for maybe an hour, but still stepped up when he wa… mores needed. Luke neglected his duties that he assigned to himself. He chose one over the other, Kenny gets a lot angrier than Luke, but he's never disappeared and not been there to assist the group in their time of need. (excluding determinant moments in season 1) Are you saying that Luke had sex by accident?
No, actually I dont because Kenny has been my friend (or Lee's friend) for three months while I had only just met Ben, Christa and Omid days ago. Kenny was supposedly his best friend and he let a petty grudge get in the way. If I remember correctly, Omid always agrees to go. Ben's hesitance is out of fear and Christa's is because she thinks you're not being honest. Both more understandable than Kenny's b.s. accusation that Lee never did anything for him.
I know the possibilty of Kenny not going with you is there, and that sucks. But then again, it's pretty awful for ALL of them to refuse going looking for a little girl for whatever reason. Ben won't go with you unless you talk him into it, because he thinks he'll screw up. Christa will refuse for Omid's safety and Kenny won't go with you if you didn't show him support during the game. But then again, he can outright go from "You and Clem are the only family I've got left and I'll be there for you till' the end" to "Would you do the same if I were in your position?" yet, we don't mention that. We only consider the negative side of it, why is that? Anyways, all of it all revolves around Kenny's appreciation of you an the times you've been there for him, and what had just recently happened to him a few hours ago. However, all of that is determinant and different for each player, but what is not determinant is his conviction to go looking for Clementine with his "We'll find her, with or without you" and the things he says during his sacrifice in both scenarios "She needs you Lee!" and "You fucking save her, you hear me!?".
But nobody pays attention to that. How convenient.
No, actually I dont because Kenny has been my friend (or Lee's friend) for three months while I had only just met Ben, Christa and Omid days… more ago. Kenny was supposedly his best friend and he let a petty grudge get in the way. If I remember correctly, Omid always agrees to go. Ben's hesitance is out of fear and Christa's is because she thinks you're not being honest. Both more understandable than Kenny's b.s. accusation that Lee never did anything for him.
Because he didn't say that to me. In my original game, which I consider my canon, he turned his back on Lee and Clementine. Those other possible scenarios make no difference to how he actually treated my Lee. I don't care what he says later when he gets his act back together. His initial instinct is to turn on his "best friend", who was dying, and this little girl he supposedly cares about. But what really made me mad, as I mentioned, was him saying Lee never did anything to help him. That was such an egregious lie, I could hardly believe it. Nevertheless, you and I have different views of Kenny and that's fine. You can never defend him to me but I do understand how if you get the walkthrough where he is decent to you, that you feel loyal to him.
I know the possibilty of Kenny not going with you is there, and that sucks. But then again, it's pretty awful for ALL of them to refuse goin… moreg looking for a little girl for whatever reason. Ben won't go with you unless you talk him into it, because he thinks he'll screw up. Christa will refuse for Omid's safety and Kenny won't go with you if you didn't show him support during the game. But then again, he can outright go from "You and Clem are the only family I've got left and I'll be there for you till' the end" to "Would you do the same if I were in your position?" yet, we don't mention that. We only consider the negative side of it, why is that? Anyways, all of it all revolves around Kenny's appreciation of you an the times you've been there for him, and what had just recently happened to him a few hours ago. However, all of that is determinant and different for each player, but what is not determinant is his conviction to go looking for Cle… [view original content]
Lily leaves you to die if you kill her father, kenny let's Danny try to kill you if you tried to save Larry, and then considers leaving you behind at the drugstore, that situation can't be used against neither of them as their reaction to you is determinant
** If you talk to Kenny after Larry's death, he has the gall to insinuate that Lilly will probably help the St. Johns kill them now because … moreof what he did. Like, are you kidding me Kenny? Do you really think Lilly is so evil that she'd actually side with a bunch of cannibals? She is grieving because of her loved one's gruesome demise, not plotting your demise like some kind of Sunday morning cartoon villaines**
If you side with Kenny in the Larry situation, Lilly will not come to your aid when the St. John brother tries to electrocute Lee on the electric fence. She has a gun in hand, she could shoot at him to stop him, but she scowls and looks away. And, if the player isn't fast enough, Lee will die by the St. John's hand because Lilly refused to save him from his fate as payback for his part in killing Larry.
So, yeah - Kenny called it.
Everyone gives Clem shit if she calls Kenny an asshole after his reaction to a loved one's death,… [view original content]
Then I might as well disregard your opinion, because we don't share the same canon. If we are completely biased, we won't be able to discuss properly because our experiences are completely different. That's why taking into account the things Kenny says or does regardless of anything is important, because we can find common ground on them. And all the things I've said to support my views on Kenny are based on those situations. I'm being completely objective in my examples, can you say the same?.
It's important to have your opinion on your characters, but a priority when you're arguing for or against something is remaing unbiased.
Because he didn't say that to me. In my original game, which I consider my canon, he turned his back on Lee and Clementine. Those other poss… moreible scenarios make no difference to how he actually treated my Lee. I don't care what he says later when he gets his act back together. His initial instinct is to turn on his "best friend", who was dying, and this little girl he supposedly cares about. But what really made me mad, as I mentioned, was him saying Lee never did anything to help him. That was such an egregious lie, I could hardly believe it. Nevertheless, you and I have different views of Kenny and that's fine. You can never defend him to me but I do understand how if you get the walkthrough where he is decent to you, that you feel loyal to him.
I wish: "I don't want to lose you," or, "I need you Kenny," had been dialogue options for Clementine.
I think it would've done Kenny a lot of good; to hear that from Clementine.
I think it would've given a stronger reason to keep going.
Disregard my opinion if you wish. It wont change. Kenny has ruined my opinion of him, and yes I do acknowledge that he has done some selfless things like save Clementine from getting hit by Carver and I understand that he is hurting. That doesn't mean I disregard and excuse the things he did that make me upset. I don't feel like I need to be completely unbiased anymore than you would be for a character you don't like. That's just not reality. Feelings always enter into it. I dont feel like youre being completely objective either. You're on the opposite side of defending Kenny by throwing in the "Well other people are doing it" argument. Nevertheless, I wont disregard your opinion.
Then I might as well disregard your opinion, because we don't share the same canon. If we are completely biased, we won't be able to discuss… more properly because our experiences are completely different. That's why taking into account the things Kenny says or does regardless of anything is important, because we can find common ground on them. And all the things I've said to support my views on Kenny are based on those situations. I'm being completely objective in my examples, can you say the same?.
It's important to have your opinion on your characters, but a priority when you're arguing for or against something is remaing unbiased.
If he chose to do something, then he did do it on purpose. He intentionally had sex with Jane. (who knows how the topic was brought up, but he sure didn't say "no, not now, I have a job to do", or anything) He may not like to leave his friends in danger, but that's what happened when he stopped paying attention to the border he was patrolling. Sure, he probably thought that nothing bad would happen in the short amount he was gone for, but it's 2 years into the apocalypse, he should know by now to never let his guard down, especially when people are depending on him to warn them of incoming walkers.
I didn't say Luke had sex by accident, I said he chose a veeeeery wrong time for that (not on purpose), but he's not a bad person or a dick who likes leaving his friends in danger.
I won't disregard your opinion either, I understand why some people can be against Kenny. He can be a reckless man that'd throw you away for the ones he loves. However, when argumenting is important to not let your feelings get the best out of you. We'll never reach an agreement otherwise.
And I only brought other characters because I think it's unfair to judge Kenny based on something other characters are perfectly capable of doing, that's all.
Anyways, all I can say is that, in the end, Kenny is a very flawed man that can be hurtful even, but his heart is always in the right place and it's not me saying this, it's most of the actions he'll do regardless of how you've been with him.
Disregard my opinion if you wish. It wont change. Kenny has ruined my opinion of him, and yes I do acknowledge that he has done some selfles… mores things like save Clementine from getting hit by Carver and I understand that he is hurting. That doesn't mean I disregard and excuse the things he did that make me upset. I don't feel like I need to be completely unbiased anymore than you would be for a character you don't like. That's just not reality. Feelings always enter into it. I dont feel like youre being completely objective either. You're on the opposite side of defending Kenny by throwing in the "Well other people are doing it" argument. Nevertheless, I wont disregard your opinion.
I won't disregard your opinion either, I understand why some people can be against Kenny. He can be a reckless man that'd throw you away for… more the ones he loves. However, when argumenting is important to not let your feelings get the best out of you. We'll never reach an agreement otherwise.
And I only brought other characters because I think it's unfair to judge Kenny based on something other characters are perfectly capable of doing, that's all.
Anyways, all I can say is that, in the end, Kenny is a very flawed man that can be hurtful even, but his heart is always in the right place and it's not me saying this, it's most of the actions he'll do regardless of how you've been with him.
And also Reggie's - I feel like they intentionally put his situation in the game to make the decision about chopping Sarita's arm off easier, since he was obviously doing fine even though he was bit (until he was thrown off the roof, of course, but that's not infection-related).
Well said.
I was probably a bit worse in my first playthrough depending on how you view it. I also chopped Sarita's arm off and in the he… moreat of the moment took the first chance I got to axe Sarita. My figuring at the time was Kenny was making enough (perfectly understandable) noise (I could sympathize with), and the walkers will take an interest in him very soon like they did when Carlos whispered to his daughter.
But all that backlash and Sarita dying quickly anyway really did a good job of making me feel like I massively screwed up. All for thinking the situation might have the chance to be like Lee's.
The fact that such a thing is detrimental doesn't excuse the fact that Lily is perfectly capable of thinking only of herself and putting other lives in danger if she doesn't get her way (looking on instead of saving Lee from Danny St.John, stealing the RV and abandoning everyone else - including two kids - in order to avoid facing the consequences of her own murderous actions).
If you're going to fault Kenny for only thinking about his own best interests, you have to fault the other characters who do the same thing.
Lily leaves you to die if you kill her father, kenny let's Danny try to kill you if you tried to save Larry, and then considers leaving you … morebehind at the drugstore, that situation can't be used against neither of them as their reaction to you is determinant
The fact that such a thing is detrimental doesn't excuse the fact that Lily is perfectly capable of thinking only of herself and putting oth… moreer lives in danger if she doesn't get her way (looking on instead of saving Lee from Danny St.John, stealing the RV and abandoning everyone else - including two kids - in order to avoid facing the consequences of her own murderous actions).
If you're going to fault Kenny for only thinking about his own best interests, you have to fault the other characters who do the same thing.
Biggest difference with lilly killing carley/doug is she did it out of rage, but with no real reason she had Proff someone was stealing but didnt have evidence to say who.... Kenny in the meat locker was because if Larry turned they where screwed and you only have so much time until you turn he had his family, friends as well as a little girls life at stake so he decided to do the dirty work that death saved lives while Lilly killing C/D would serve no purpose
I never said everyone was innocent, Lee is far from that but depending on your playthrough his murdering the senator was spurred through dif… moreferent means.
Nick faces the full brunt of Matthew and guess what? Walter can end up killing him.
We are NEVER given the option to suddenly Kill Kenny. Kenny is married to the narrative.
Lily murders carley/doug and guess what happens. She gets driven off the fandom hates her the group hates her.
But Kenny is suddenly with you through it with his entitlement Killing Larry (i already pointed this out way too many times I'm not repeating myself) and then wanting to Murder Ben for 2 whole episodes and then almost ditches you in the last. Then even after he redeems himself pulls more polarized insane and irradic behavior to Clementine in S2.
If you choose "I'm sorry" after cutting Sarita's arm Clementine will say
"I'm sorry. I had to do it. I don't want to lose you. Please,… more Kenny"
and when you're in the tent if you choose the "you help me" option she'll say
"That's not true. You help ME, all the time...I need you"
It's really interesting!
Comments
It would help your argument Krazehcakes if you didn't always start with a disrespectful "Lol WHAT?"
And beautifully put Tinni!
Speculating that the bandits are crackheads because they need/threatened Ben for medical supplies Despite the fact that Jolene quite literally told them how dangerous said bandits were and how they treated those in their group, yet you say Ben is suddenly "responsible" for his actions. Who said he wasn't? But he was not to blame for Duck getting bit because if he didn't comply, Those bandits would have overrun their camp sooner/whilst Kenny and Lee being away and duck's fate would be far worse with the RV not being fixed at all.
So no, your reasoning is quite flawed. And you can't quite compare Kenny and Lee with loss, but nowhere in time did LILLY who lost her father from Kenny dropping a goddamn salt lick on his head want to outright Murder Kenny despite what he did. So kenny doing that to Clem is hypocritical.
yet you say Kenny about to shoot clementine (when the camera quite literally pans his contemplation and the gun in his hand as a danger to clementine in HER POV) is out of reach? Wow, A+ Reasoning.
We're not Clem's parents..... #WeAreClementine
I felt bad for Kenny and I was more than willing to pull him out of the despair he was currently in. I was willing and determined because, like Clem says "I need you" and Kenny knows that he needs her too. That's how I feel and that's how I will always feel about Kenny, I'm not saying he's perfect but he is my friend none the less.
It's pretty obvious that they're junkies, why else would they be so desperate to only get prescription pills/hard drugs from both the St. Johns, and the motel group? And imo, who else but crackheads would think it's a good idea to ambush people at the fence with frickin bow and arrows? Not to mention, that one of the bandits actually shoots one of the guys on his side over an argument they were having. And just the fact that they completely lose their shit when one delivery doesn't show up on time, and start shooting up the motel doesn't make you think the bandits aren't right in the head, and were most likely on drugs? Ok then. You implied that Ben was not the majority at fault, but he is. Ben may have good intentions, he is very naive, but that doesn't lessen his huge involvement in the results. Ben had been making these trade offs with the bandits for a while, they'd been at the motel for a good 2-3 months. He was stealing from his own group based on the assumption that the bandits had his friends, and the only proof he had of this was the bandit's word. And not once did he think to tell his group about these crazies, there is no excuse for that. And how exactly was Kenny supposed to speed up fixing the RV with the small amount of tools they had at hand? He was making due with what they had, and I doubt anyone else had any knowledge of how to fix a vehicle, so he was doing this all by himself. I also doubt that Kenny is an expert in fixing RVs, so he was just doing the best he could. Not to mention, that Kenny had no way of knowing that they were about to be attacked by bandits, because Ben didn't warn them.
I believe that Lilly knew deep down that Larry was going to die no matter what they did, what she was angry about was the brutal manner in which it was done. But if you look around them in the meat locker, what else could they have used to eliminate Larry as a threat? It was very gruesome, but it was the only option they had. Actually she does murder someone, do the names Carley or Doug ring a bell for you? And saying she was aiming for Ben doesn't make her look any better.
Again, you don't seem to have read my comment in it's entirety. From Clem's pov, she is nervous because she knows she was there when Sarita was bit, and she's also never been on the receiving end of Kenny's anger before. She doesn't know like Lee does, that Kenny is mostly talk when he's angry and just needs to vent. Clem only knows how the rest of the group has reacted to Kenny, but none of those members really know Kenny that well. I also said that I write off that camera sequence as fuel to the Kenny vs Luke battle, at that point Kenny looked better than Luke, they needed to even the playing fields. I know you're trying to be sarcastic, but I'll take that as a compliment.
Kenny's finger is going through the trigger guard.
** If you talk to Kenny after Larry's death, he has the gall to insinuate that Lilly will probably help the St. Johns kill them now because of what he did. Like, are you kidding me Kenny? Do you really think Lilly is so evil that she'd actually side with a bunch of cannibals? She is grieving because of her loved one's gruesome demise, not plotting your demise like some kind of Sunday morning cartoon villaines**
If you side with Kenny in the Larry situation, Lilly will not come to your aid when the St. John brother tries to electrocute Lee on the electric fence. She has a gun in hand, she could shoot at him to stop him, but she scowls and looks away. And, if the player isn't fast enough, Lee will die by the St. John's hand because Lilly refused to save him from his fate as payback for his part in killing Larry.
So, yeah - Kenny called it.
Everyone gives Clem shit if she calls Kenny an asshole after his reaction to a loved one's death, but it was perfectly fine for Kenny to be an ass to Lilly after she lost a loved one? And if you didn't help him, he constantly rubs it in Lee's face that "you're useless", or "you've never helped me", or "I did what I had to, and you know it, you moron".
How is he supposed to treat her when she's putting the rest of the group at risk? She's not getting any sleep, their supplies are low, the town is tapped out and they're repeatedly attacked by bandits. Lilly wrongfully believes they're safe where they're at, and stubbornly refuses to budge - refusing to listen to anyone elses opinion on the matter of leaving.
And I can understand Kenny's frustration with others if they look down on him due to Larry's death. Looking back on the situation, what choice did they have? Larry was unresponsive - no heartbeat, and not breathing. It doesn't take long for a person to expire after that,m and we've seen how quickly a person can come back from the dead as a killing machine. If you were in that situation, would you take the risk of this guy coming back and killing four innocent people, just to spare his daughter's feelings or are you going to do a very difficult thing by putting an end to the very real danger - which results in not only saving four innocent lives, but to buy some time in order to figure out a way to escape the prison and save other innocent people?
Seriously, Kenny gets way too much flak for using his head and never received a word of thanks for his part in rescuing them all from a very dangerous situation.
He actually did in the tent if you chose the right dialogue choices.
Old kenny would get beaten down, New kenny would probally knock him out before the ap
In a post apocalyptic world where the death rise and eat the living, Larry is not considered a threat? Are you kidding me?
Larry- suffering a massive heart attack, not breathing and having no pulse - inside a locked meat locker with four innocent people? He's about the biggest threat they could have in that situation.
As for Carver - it is murder - but a justifiable one. The guy was a mad man, and they all saw just how fucked up this guy was. He had every intention of killing every last one of them for daring to try and leave his compound/question his authority. What do you think would have happened if Kenny didn't kill Carver? That he'd let them go peacefully? They'd be hunted down and be picked off - one by one.
He ditched himself rather than just put a bullet in Ben and continue helping Lee save Clementine. Lee can tell him off for his unnecessarily dramatic 'sacrifice', which you can imagine is due to his suicidal urges. Kenny doesn't think killing himself is a brave move, yet he puts himself into dangerous situations in hopes that his death will come at someone else's hands.
Yeah, he loses my sympathy when he treats Clem like crap even if she didn't get Sarita killed.
I will admit he could of put a bullet in Ben's head and went up with Lee, but it was a moment of redemption for him to prove to Katja that he still has some humanity in him.
I still feel it was a powerful scene though regardless of how illogical it was.
Saved you after just meeting you and risk his own life (Season 1 EP 1)
I'm not against Kenny, I know he was hurt and angry, I'm against people who say "Poor Kenny he was a dick but he was just sad, Luke's the one to blame, he put his friends' lives at risk just to have sex!". Well, they both made mistakes so don't treat Luke like he did it on purpose or he didn't care about the group.
"Why are you all siding against him for what he said?"
Because fuck Kenny thats why.
I hope you hold Omid, Christa and Ben in the same light then, given how they can refuse to go with you as well.
I guess some are more empathic than others. I can't hold it against him, I really can't. Knowing all what he's been trough. It's like Lee lost his own Clementine three times! it's completely awful and his reaction is human and raw, the important thing is that he doesn't hold it against you as the episode advances and he can even apologize.
I take it as an unfortunate way to manage his anger, but I can't blame or dislike him for it. And I know Clementine can't either, considering the dialogue options she has
I think she'd be just as sad as me if something were to happen to Kenny.
Exactly!
I'm so glad to see someone calling things; for how they really are.
What you described, is exactly the same way I feel about the entire affair.
Kenny, as far as Larry goes, did what was probably needed to protect the group.
And considering how Lilly responded when Lee was in peril, she proved Kenny right, about her siding with the St. John's against them.
Kenny knew exactly who Lilly was.
And Lilly further proved what she was, when she stole the Rv, and left the group to die.
And when you think about how much Kenny has lost, his state of mind, being grieved; possibly even being unhinged after everything that's happened to him, is understandable.
For those reasons, I had Clementine be consoling towards Kenny.
I let Kenny express his feelings, without interrupting him, and then had Clementine remind Kenny that he helps her constantly.
To remind him, that he's not useless, and that he can still help others.
That he still has something to contribute.
Just hopefully he survives to season 3, and is eventually able to fully recognize how valuable he is to the group.
That he will always be needed.
The only thing I'd like to see change about Kenny, is for him to develop greater self-control, and learn to compromise with others.
I wish: "I don't want to lose you," or, "I need you Kenny," had been dialogue options for Clementine.
I think it would've done Kenny a lot of good; to hear that from Clementine.
I think it would've given a stronger reason to keep going.
You really can't compare how Kenny dealt with his grief to Luke's. Kenny isolated himself for maybe an hour, but still stepped up when he was needed. Luke neglected his duties that he assigned to himself. He chose one over the other, Kenny gets a lot angrier than Luke, but he's never disappeared and not been there to assist the group in their time of need. (excluding determinant moments in season 1) Are you saying that Luke had sex by accident?
I didn't say Luke had sex by accident, I said he chose a veeeeery wrong time for that (not on purpose), but he's not a bad person or a dick who likes leaving his friends in danger.
No, actually I dont because Kenny has been my friend (or Lee's friend) for three months while I had only just met Ben, Christa and Omid days ago. Kenny was supposedly his best friend and he let a petty grudge get in the way. If I remember correctly, Omid always agrees to go. Ben's hesitance is out of fear and Christa's is because she thinks you're not being honest. Both more understandable than Kenny's b.s. accusation that Lee never did anything for him.
I know the possibilty of Kenny not going with you is there, and that sucks. But then again, it's pretty awful for ALL of them to refuse going looking for a little girl for whatever reason. Ben won't go with you unless you talk him into it, because he thinks he'll screw up. Christa will refuse for Omid's safety and Kenny won't go with you if you didn't show him support during the game. But then again, he can outright go from "You and Clem are the only family I've got left and I'll be there for you till' the end" to "Would you do the same if I were in your position?" yet, we don't mention that. We only consider the negative side of it, why is that? Anyways, all of it all revolves around Kenny's appreciation of you an the times you've been there for him, and what had just recently happened to him a few hours ago. However, all of that is determinant and different for each player, but what is not determinant is his conviction to go looking for Clementine with his "We'll find her, with or without you" and the things he says during his sacrifice in both scenarios "She needs you Lee!" and "You fucking save her, you hear me!?".
But nobody pays attention to that. How convenient.
Because he didn't say that to me. In my original game, which I consider my canon, he turned his back on Lee and Clementine. Those other possible scenarios make no difference to how he actually treated my Lee. I don't care what he says later when he gets his act back together. His initial instinct is to turn on his "best friend", who was dying, and this little girl he supposedly cares about. But what really made me mad, as I mentioned, was him saying Lee never did anything to help him. That was such an egregious lie, I could hardly believe it. Nevertheless, you and I have different views of Kenny and that's fine. You can never defend him to me but I do understand how if you get the walkthrough where he is decent to you, that you feel loyal to him.
Lily leaves you to die if you kill her father, kenny let's Danny try to kill you if you tried to save Larry, and then considers leaving you behind at the drugstore, that situation can't be used against neither of them as their reaction to you is determinant
Then I might as well disregard your opinion, because we don't share the same canon. If we are completely biased, we won't be able to discuss properly because our experiences are completely different. That's why taking into account the things Kenny says or does regardless of anything is important, because we can find common ground on them. And all the things I've said to support my views on Kenny are based on those situations. I'm being completely objective in my examples, can you say the same?.
It's important to have your opinion on your characters, but a priority when you're arguing for or against something is remaing unbiased.
But she can say those words!
Disregard my opinion if you wish. It wont change. Kenny has ruined my opinion of him, and yes I do acknowledge that he has done some selfless things like save Clementine from getting hit by Carver and I understand that he is hurting. That doesn't mean I disregard and excuse the things he did that make me upset. I don't feel like I need to be completely unbiased anymore than you would be for a character you don't like. That's just not reality. Feelings always enter into it. I dont feel like youre being completely objective either. You're on the opposite side of defending Kenny by throwing in the "Well other people are doing it" argument. Nevertheless, I wont disregard your opinion.
If he chose to do something, then he did do it on purpose. He intentionally had sex with Jane. (who knows how the topic was brought up, but he sure didn't say "no, not now, I have a job to do", or anything) He may not like to leave his friends in danger, but that's what happened when he stopped paying attention to the border he was patrolling. Sure, he probably thought that nothing bad would happen in the short amount he was gone for, but it's 2 years into the apocalypse, he should know by now to never let his guard down, especially when people are depending on him to warn them of incoming walkers.
I won't disregard your opinion either, I understand why some people can be against Kenny. He can be a reckless man that'd throw you away for the ones he loves. However, when argumenting is important to not let your feelings get the best out of you. We'll never reach an agreement otherwise.
And I only brought other characters because I think it's unfair to judge Kenny based on something other characters are perfectly capable of doing, that's all.
Anyways, all I can say is that, in the end, Kenny is a very flawed man that can be hurtful even, but his heart is always in the right place and it's not me saying this, it's most of the actions he'll do regardless of how you've been with him.
Really?
I don't remember that.
It been a while since I played.
And I've been really busy during that time.
If you choose "I'm sorry" after cutting Sarita's arm Clementine will say
and when you're in the tent if you choose the "you help me" option she'll say
It's really interesting!
Fair enough. We can end this discussion amicably.
Is there a better way to end a discussion than that? I don't think so! hugs
And also Reggie's - I feel like they intentionally put his situation in the game to make the decision about chopping Sarita's arm off easier, since he was obviously doing fine even though he was bit (until he was thrown off the roof, of course, but that's not infection-related).
The fact that such a thing is detrimental doesn't excuse the fact that Lily is perfectly capable of thinking only of herself and putting other lives in danger if she doesn't get her way (looking on instead of saving Lee from Danny St.John, stealing the RV and abandoning everyone else - including two kids - in order to avoid facing the consequences of her own murderous actions).
If you're going to fault Kenny for only thinking about his own best interests, you have to fault the other characters who do the same thing.
Considering I don't like either of them, what's your point?
Biggest difference with lilly killing carley/doug is she did it out of rage, but with no real reason she had Proff someone was stealing but didnt have evidence to say who.... Kenny in the meat locker was because if Larry turned they where screwed and you only have so much time until you turn he had his family, friends as well as a little girls life at stake so he decided to do the dirty work that death saved lives while Lilly killing C/D would serve no purpose
Yeah, that's what I chose in my first playthrough.