You know what? I understand. It's just that this episode has torn me up so much that I have gone off on a rant. I hope you understand. It was all bottled up emotion from that game's ending, sorry.
There is nothing canon. I got the Kenny ending, it's great. Walking off with my best bud, however it's not canon. It's just how I played the… more game. To call it cannon is like saying "My opinion is superior and my way of doing things is the right way" which isn't true. We all form our own stories and play how we play. Called free will, I don't think TTG is aiming to be a communist dictator over our game choices.
Wow, don't take what I said as bitching. This is a forum, you've got your opinion, I've got mine, nothing to get torn up about. But yeah, it's good that you get it and it sure was a emotional ending. Great to see you saved Kenny though
You know what? I understand. It's just that this episode has torn me up so much that I have gone off on a rant. I hope you understand. It was all bottled up emotion from that game's ending, sorry.
You know what? I understand. It's just that this episode has torn me up so much that I have gone off on a rant. I hope you understand. It was all bottled up emotion from that game's ending, sorry.
hey i just really don't like this guy. you and i don't get along either. sorry if that bothered you i just feel attacked a lot. some you guys are rude for no reason. oh and i'm not shutting up any time soon.
Wow, don't take what I said as bitching. This is a forum, you've got your opinion, I've got mine, nothing to get torn up about. But yeah, it's good that you get it and it sure was a emotional ending. Great to see you saved Kenny though
The first ending I did had Clem and the baby alone outside. I call that ending 'Badass Clem of the Zombie World' ending. Not sure how hopeful it is, but for some reason I think Clem and the baby will survive.
The second one had Clem and the baby at Wellington when Kenny begs them to take THEM in, then leaves to keep them safe in Wellington (redemption for Kenny - he's not dead, Clem and the baby are safe, there's hope for everyone).
The third was Clem refusing to leave Kenny and both of them walking back into the walker infested world, but they're going to stay near Wellington in hope that there'll be some openings in the future (also hopeful - they'll stay near Wellington, hopefully get in later, but at least they have each other and the baby).
The fourth ending that I chose I didnt like having to choose, because of what Jane did, but I forgave Jane. just to see what the endings would be like with Jane in the end. Seriously, after what she did, I would have wanted to shoot her myself. She killed all the admiration I had for her, which was a LOT. Also ticked off at Bonnie and Mike for siding with ARVO... WHO SHOOTS ME. I wanted to have the option to shoot Arvo. After I was all nice to him the whole time and he friggin shoots me.
Anyway, the fourth ending that I chose was Clem and Jane.... then let the other survivors in. It was... sorta hopeful, but I still can't forgive Jane for what she did, and I'm pretty sure it will all end badly. Not a hopeful ending, especially since the guy has a gun and will probably try to kill Jane and Clem to protect his boy and take their stuff.
The fifth ending that I chose was Clem and Jane... then did not let the other survivors in. That was the worst of all possible endings, no hope at all. Clem's going to become a jerk like Jane is. Probably there will be more attacking. Even worse ending. Probably the worst ending of all.
Seriously, in every scenario, Kenny ends like a good guy. Even when he dies, he dies trying to make sure Clem doesnt feel like she did the wrong thing.
I just wish there had been an option to SHOOT ARVO. Because even if you're nice to him the whole time that little commie snake shoots you. Even if you then give the gun, and ask to come with them.
I've done every ending. And I think the ones where Kenny end are the most hopeful ones. He ends like he's always been - trying to keep Clem and the baby safe.
This episode was definitely better than Episode 4.
Wish there had been options for the game to end with Bonnie and Mike, or with Luke. Just to see some more variety, but episode 5 did have the illusion of choice. And rather different endings.
They're going to turn on Clem and Jane. Patricia might not, but Gill will. He'll be thinking of doing it to keep his family safe. It won't end well. It's only marginally better than the ending where you make them leave.
I just wish there was an option to kill Arvo. EVER.
They're going to turn on Clem and Jane. Patricia might not, but Gill will. He'll be thinking of doing it to keep his family safe. It won't … moreend well. It's only marginally better than the ending where you make them leave.
I just wish there was an option to kill Arvo. EVER.
hey i just really don't like this guy. you and i don't get along either. sorry if that bothered you i just feel attacked a lot. some you guys are rude for no reason. oh and i'm not shutting up any time soon.
Gill's not really determinant. He's alive no matter what. If you go to wellington with Kenny, he and his family will find the Howes store. If you are in the wilderness with KEnny, he will find the Howes store. If you're alone in the wilderness, he will find the Howes store. If you let him into Howes when you're with Jane, he's alive. If you make him leave, he's still alive.
No matter what choices are made, the family is alive.
Therefore, they're not determinant. The only determinant ones at the end of Season 5 are Jane and Kenny.
Gill's not really determinant. He's alive no matter what. If you go to wellington with Kenny, he and his family will find the Howes store. … moreIf you are in the wilderness with KEnny, he will find the Howes store. If you're alone in the wilderness, he will find the Howes store. If you let him into Howes when you're with Jane, he's alive. If you make him leave, he's still alive.
No matter what choices are made, the family is alive.
Therefore, they're not determinant. The only determinant ones at the end of Season 5 are Jane and Kenny.
But he wasnt getting revenge for his sister. His sister was ALREADY DEAD. And Clem wasnt the one who even killed her. She killed his sister when she was already a zombie. Arvo's an evil sob.
I like Arvo, I guess he thought he was getting revenge on his sister's killer.
But Gill is the kid, Randy's the father, and I don't see why they would have and accept the Jane mentality.
His back was turned while Kenny was held hostage, we have no idea whether or not Arvo and his group knew about the whole destroying the brain thing because we never got a chance to speak with him, and he obviously thought Natasha was alive due to his attempts at resuscitating her.
But he wasnt getting revenge for his sister. His sister was ALREADY DEAD. And Clem wasnt the one who even killed her. She killed his sister when she was already a zombie. Arvo's an evil sob.
I personally think that, the Lee dream was definitely meant to influence the ending we choose. If we really idolized Lee, and Clem does I'm sure, then what he said would've been taken to heart. IMO I think Clem going to Wellington with Kenny was the best. And not leaving him was also my favorite. I mean, just look at how Clem reacts when Kenny even mentions him not coming with them? She cared about him.
I think the ending where you and Kenny make it to Wellington (At least I assume that's Wellington) is the canon one. I'm not sure which decision is canon though, staying or going with Kenny.
I agree. Jane is a fucked up person and in my eyes a much bigger thread than Kenny. Kenny always just wanted to keep Clementine and the Baby safe. And he didn't trust those guys for a reason.
Again, if he's survived the zombie apocalypse this long and DOESNT know about the whole 'destroying the brain' thing, then not only is he an evil SOB, he's a stupid evil SOB. There's nothing good about Arvo. I wish someone had killed him. Jane. Kenny. Clem. SOMEONE. He has no redeeming qualities. At all.
His back was turned while Kenny was held hostage, we have no idea whether or not Arvo and his group knew about the whole destroying the brai… moren thing because we never got a chance to speak with him, and he obviously thought Natasha was alive due to his attempts at resuscitating her.
I loved both endings with Kenny - it shows redemption. And the closest thing to a 'happy' ending possible.
I liked the 'alone with AJ in the outside' ending also - it showed hope that Clem has become the type of person who can survive, PLUS keep the baby alive.
I did not like either ending with Jane. Both seemed like Clem was doomed to die. Either from betrayal of the family turning on her after she helps them (because so far I've gotten used to the idea that people I think would be good will wind up betraying you, or at the very least doing something stupid to get others killed, or they're going to attack and someone's going to die that way (plus you wind up being a jerk who won't let them in, so you become as cynical as Jane.
I think they definitely made up for the crappy episode 4, by having an episode 5 where it's not just an 'illusion' of choice - the choices actually DID matter. A LOT. Episode 5 was excellent - the only complaint being that I couldnt choose to kill Arvo, or choose to shoot Jane. Or choose to non-lethally shoot Kenny.
Honestly, Jane's 'plan' was moronic. Proving that Kenny is a monster by showing that he'd try to kill Jane after she looked like she had killed the baby? Why would anyone WANT to keep someone alive who's a baby killer? What the hell did she think ANY person would be like if you pretended that you just killed a baby. Heck, in the TV show, Michonne had the right opinion about people who kill innocent children.
This episode was definitely better than Episode 4.
Wish there had been options for the game to end with Bonnie and Mike, or with Luke. Just to see some more variety, but episode 5 did have the illusion of choice. And rather different endings.
Oh and in case anyone noticed... Kenny was right about Wellington existing. And he either dies trying to make sure Clem doesnt feel guilty, or makes a plea to make sure the CHILDREN get to stay at Wellington, or he, Clem and the baby survive on their own, and might in a few months get to get into wellington.
Kenny might be bullheaded, but at least when it counted, he put Clem and the baby first. Jane isnt the sacrificing sort - Kenny is.
However,
1) Kenny will not be a playable character in season 3. He's a determinant character. That means he'll probably die in the beginning of season 3 episode 1. I do think the ending of winding up with Kenny and the baby was the best possible ending though (with Clem and AJ remaining at wellington being the second best, since I think Kenny would be able to survive on his own until wellington maybe allowed him in, or until Clem left to find Kenny). I also do like the ending with Clem and AJ on their own, as long as you got to tell off Jane. But I prefer the endings with Kenny because they really showed what Kenny was about - sacrifice and loyalty (despite anger problems and stubbornness)
2) Jane also wouldnt be a playable character in season 3 - she's determinant.
3) I agree about Bonnie and Mike. They betrayed Clem. If they were just fleeing on their own, that's one thing. If they fled with Arvo even, that's forgivable given how Kenny was acting (although I agree with how Kenny acted a lot when it came to Arvo). But they tried to steal the truck. And they were stealing ALL THE SUPPLIES. So they can save themselves and LEAVE THE HELPLESS BABY BEHIND as well as Clem, who Bonnie kept almost getting killed and asking her to do everything. You'd think after the first time she betrayed Clem (to Carver), she'd have felt the need to prove her loyalty. And Mike... well... for some reason I'm more angry at Bonnie than Mike, because I thought he would have probably taken Clem with them if Arvo hadnt suddenly shot her. But he is a traitor. Just.... not as wretched a traitor as Bonnie was.
Jane let her sister die. Jane wanted to let Sarah die. Jane wanted to leave the group after Clem was shot because Kenny had a temper about being stubborn at getting to Wellington (which DID exist after all). Jane would definitely have abandoned Clem when things got tough. It's not unreasonable to have thought that Jane would have killed the baby either - hell she almost suggested that possibility to Rebecca after escaping from Howes.
If it was just her sister, or just Sarah... I could have had hope for JAne because she did come back to help the group, and looked like she might have some redeeming qualities. Then she pulled that trick with the baby - she killed any hope of redemption.
I agree. Jane is a fucked up person and in my eyes a much bigger thread than Kenny. Kenny always just wanted to keep Clementine and the Baby safe. And he didn't trust those guys for a reason.
Also, Kenny was right to not trust Arvo. You know... the guy who shoots Clem (Even if you give your gun to Mike and ask to go with them). The guy who started running on the ice, which causes it to start to crack, which gets Luke killed. The guy who betrayed the group to his russian friends even if you don't steal from him and claims you did steal?
I so want to have the opportunity to find and kill Arvo in a season 2 DLC, or a season 1 start. Want to redeem Mike? Have the DLC be playing Mike, and during that time, give him the opportunity to kill Arvo by realizing the mistake he made in letting Arvo escape with him and Bonnie.
I agree. Jane is a fucked up person and in my eyes a much bigger thread than Kenny. Kenny always just wanted to keep Clementine and the Baby safe. And he didn't trust those guys for a reason.
No. Jane's reasoning made less than no sense. "I'll pretend I killed the baby so that Kenny will want me dead. That'll prove he's unstable!"
No. That proves he loves the baby and can't trust Jane to not do the same to Clem, plus... proves that she's the type of person WHO WOULD KILL A HELPLESS BABY.
She could have stopped that fight at any time by saying that the baby was still alive.
Comments
You know what? I understand. It's just that this episode has torn me up so much that I have gone off on a rant. I hope you understand. It was all bottled up emotion from that game's ending, sorry.
^This wholeheartedly. That last sentence you made was the culmination of what I thought about that bitch.
Kenny can't be the main character, though. He is determinant, and can also get shot in the head. However, I'm still relieved that we got a choice.
Wow, don't take what I said as bitching. This is a forum, you've got your opinion, I've got mine, nothing to get torn up about. But yeah, it's good that you get it and it sure was a emotional ending. Great to see you saved Kenny though
Duck, shut up for once lol
Boy don't let them tell you what's canon or not, you know you and i... we are canon as fuck.
hey i just really don't like this guy. you and i don't get along either. sorry if that bothered you i just feel attacked a lot. some you guys are rude for no reason. oh and i'm not shutting up any time soon.
Thanks.
The first ending I did had Clem and the baby alone outside. I call that ending 'Badass Clem of the Zombie World' ending. Not sure how hopeful it is, but for some reason I think Clem and the baby will survive.
The second one had Clem and the baby at Wellington when Kenny begs them to take THEM in, then leaves to keep them safe in Wellington (redemption for Kenny - he's not dead, Clem and the baby are safe, there's hope for everyone).
The third was Clem refusing to leave Kenny and both of them walking back into the walker infested world, but they're going to stay near Wellington in hope that there'll be some openings in the future (also hopeful - they'll stay near Wellington, hopefully get in later, but at least they have each other and the baby).
The fourth ending that I chose I didnt like having to choose, because of what Jane did, but I forgave Jane. just to see what the endings would be like with Jane in the end. Seriously, after what she did, I would have wanted to shoot her myself. She killed all the admiration I had for her, which was a LOT. Also ticked off at Bonnie and Mike for siding with ARVO... WHO SHOOTS ME. I wanted to have the option to shoot Arvo. After I was all nice to him the whole time and he friggin shoots me.
Anyway, the fourth ending that I chose was Clem and Jane.... then let the other survivors in. It was... sorta hopeful, but I still can't forgive Jane for what she did, and I'm pretty sure it will all end badly. Not a hopeful ending, especially since the guy has a gun and will probably try to kill Jane and Clem to protect his boy and take their stuff.
The fifth ending that I chose was Clem and Jane... then did not let the other survivors in. That was the worst of all possible endings, no hope at all. Clem's going to become a jerk like Jane is. Probably there will be more attacking. Even worse ending. Probably the worst ending of all.
Seriously, in every scenario, Kenny ends like a good guy. Even when he dies, he dies trying to make sure Clem doesnt feel like she did the wrong thing.
I just wish there had been an option to SHOOT ARVO. Because even if you're nice to him the whole time that little commie snake shoots you. Even if you then give the gun, and ask to come with them.
Wise words, spoken like a true Urban.
However, it would be an interesting twist.
That's another reason I hope he is.
Aside from my love for his character.
This episode was definitely better than Episode 4.
Wish there had been options for the game to end with Bonnie and Mike, or with Luke. Just to see some more variety, but episode 5 did have the illusion of choice. And rather different endings.
They're going to turn on Clem and Jane. Patricia might not, but Gill will. He'll be thinking of doing it to keep his family safe. It won't end well. It's only marginally better than the ending where you make them leave.
I just wish there was an option to kill Arvo. EVER.
I like Arvo, I guess he thought he was getting revenge on his sister's killer.
But Gill is the kid, Randy's the father, and I don't see why they would have and accept the Jane mentality.
I wish, but I'm feeling better that Kenny is at least determinant than fully dead. How they go about Season 3 with these endings is beyond me.
I do love the fact that they gave multiple endings. That actually DID make choices matter.
Even though the choice everyone wishes they could have done was to shoot Arvo
If you don't like this guy just fucking ignore him. He's not doing anything to you.
Yes I know I'm done with it for now.
Gill's not really determinant. He's alive no matter what. If you go to wellington with Kenny, he and his family will find the Howes store. If you are in the wilderness with KEnny, he will find the Howes store. If you're alone in the wilderness, he will find the Howes store. If you let him into Howes when you're with Jane, he's alive. If you make him leave, he's still alive.
No matter what choices are made, the family is alive.
Therefore, they're not determinant. The only determinant ones at the end of Season 5 are Jane and Kenny.
I meant that his dialogue was determinant, not his character.
But he wasnt getting revenge for his sister. His sister was ALREADY DEAD. And Clem wasnt the one who even killed her. She killed his sister when she was already a zombie. Arvo's an evil sob.
Ah ok. I only call people determinant if there are two choices of them either being alive or dead.
His back was turned while Kenny was held hostage, we have no idea whether or not Arvo and his group knew about the whole destroying the brain thing because we never got a chance to speak with him, and he obviously thought Natasha was alive due to his attempts at resuscitating her.
Well one thing is for certain, telltale has confirmed that there will be a season 3.
I personally think that, the Lee dream was definitely meant to influence the ending we choose. If we really idolized Lee, and Clem does I'm sure, then what he said would've been taken to heart. IMO I think Clem going to Wellington with Kenny was the best. And not leaving him was also my favorite. I mean, just look at how Clem reacts when Kenny even mentions him not coming with them? She cared about him.
I agree. Jane is a fucked up person and in my eyes a much bigger thread than Kenny. Kenny always just wanted to keep Clementine and the Baby safe. And he didn't trust those guys for a reason.
He's Bigby in disguise
Again, if he's survived the zombie apocalypse this long and DOESNT know about the whole 'destroying the brain' thing, then not only is he an evil SOB, he's a stupid evil SOB. There's nothing good about Arvo. I wish someone had killed him. Jane. Kenny. Clem. SOMEONE. He has no redeeming qualities. At all.
I loved both endings with Kenny - it shows redemption. And the closest thing to a 'happy' ending possible.
I liked the 'alone with AJ in the outside' ending also - it showed hope that Clem has become the type of person who can survive, PLUS keep the baby alive.
I did not like either ending with Jane. Both seemed like Clem was doomed to die. Either from betrayal of the family turning on her after she helps them (because so far I've gotten used to the idea that people I think would be good will wind up betraying you, or at the very least doing something stupid to get others killed, or they're going to attack and someone's going to die that way (plus you wind up being a jerk who won't let them in, so you become as cynical as Jane.
I think they definitely made up for the crappy episode 4, by having an episode 5 where it's not just an 'illusion' of choice - the choices actually DID matter. A LOT. Episode 5 was excellent - the only complaint being that I couldnt choose to kill Arvo, or choose to shoot Jane. Or choose to non-lethally shoot Kenny.
Honestly, Jane's 'plan' was moronic. Proving that Kenny is a monster by showing that he'd try to kill Jane after she looked like she had killed the baby? Why would anyone WANT to keep someone alive who's a baby killer? What the hell did she think ANY person would be like if you pretended that you just killed a baby. Heck, in the TV show, Michonne had the right opinion about people who kill innocent children.
Group hug!
Is there anyone else who actually understood where Jane was coming from?
it would be nice if it was: Bonnie and Mike/Luke/Jane/Kenny/alone that would add more of variety to the endings
Oh and in case anyone noticed... Kenny was right about Wellington existing. And he either dies trying to make sure Clem doesnt feel guilty, or makes a plea to make sure the CHILDREN get to stay at Wellington, or he, Clem and the baby survive on their own, and might in a few months get to get into wellington.
Kenny might be bullheaded, but at least when it counted, he put Clem and the baby first. Jane isnt the sacrificing sort - Kenny is.
However,
1) Kenny will not be a playable character in season 3. He's a determinant character. That means he'll probably die in the beginning of season 3 episode 1. I do think the ending of winding up with Kenny and the baby was the best possible ending though (with Clem and AJ remaining at wellington being the second best, since I think Kenny would be able to survive on his own until wellington maybe allowed him in, or until Clem left to find Kenny). I also do like the ending with Clem and AJ on their own, as long as you got to tell off Jane. But I prefer the endings with Kenny because they really showed what Kenny was about - sacrifice and loyalty (despite anger problems and stubbornness)
2) Jane also wouldnt be a playable character in season 3 - she's determinant.
3) I agree about Bonnie and Mike. They betrayed Clem. If they were just fleeing on their own, that's one thing. If they fled with Arvo even, that's forgivable given how Kenny was acting (although I agree with how Kenny acted a lot when it came to Arvo). But they tried to steal the truck. And they were stealing ALL THE SUPPLIES. So they can save themselves and LEAVE THE HELPLESS BABY BEHIND as well as Clem, who Bonnie kept almost getting killed and asking her to do everything. You'd think after the first time she betrayed Clem (to Carver), she'd have felt the need to prove her loyalty. And Mike... well... for some reason I'm more angry at Bonnie than Mike, because I thought he would have probably taken Clem with them if Arvo hadnt suddenly shot her. But he is a traitor. Just.... not as wretched a traitor as Bonnie was.
Jane let her sister die. Jane wanted to let Sarah die. Jane wanted to leave the group after Clem was shot because Kenny had a temper about being stubborn at getting to Wellington (which DID exist after all). Jane would definitely have abandoned Clem when things got tough. It's not unreasonable to have thought that Jane would have killed the baby either - hell she almost suggested that possibility to Rebecca after escaping from Howes.
If it was just her sister, or just Sarah... I could have had hope for JAne because she did come back to help the group, and looked like she might have some redeeming qualities. Then she pulled that trick with the baby - she killed any hope of redemption.
Also, Kenny was right to not trust Arvo. You know... the guy who shoots Clem (Even if you give your gun to Mike and ask to go with them). The guy who started running on the ice, which causes it to start to crack, which gets Luke killed. The guy who betrayed the group to his russian friends even if you don't steal from him and claims you did steal?
I so want to have the opportunity to find and kill Arvo in a season 2 DLC, or a season 1 start. Want to redeem Mike? Have the DLC be playing Mike, and during that time, give him the opportunity to kill Arvo by realizing the mistake he made in letting Arvo escape with him and Bonnie.
There is no true canon, for if you don't play the game, it doesn't even happen for you.
There could be a DLC for season 2 showing what happens with Mike and Bonnie. Hopefully involving shooting Arvo when Mike realizes what he did.
No. Jane's reasoning made less than no sense. "I'll pretend I killed the baby so that Kenny will want me dead. That'll prove he's unstable!"
No. That proves he loves the baby and can't trust Jane to not do the same to Clem, plus... proves that she's the type of person WHO WOULD KILL A HELPLESS BABY.
She could have stopped that fight at any time by saying that the baby was still alive.
The only wrong choice is the one that hasn't been chosen.