I used to hate Jane for her role in Sarah's death, but I found myself agreeing with her with Kenny's mental state and his violent ways and c… morehose to save Jane by shooting Kenny.
Even with the deception of the baby's fate, I wasn't really all that mad with her. It was a stupid move, yes, but ultimately she was right about Kenny and I just wanted to get away from him once and for all.
In the end I went with Jane and returned to Carver's place to start a new life.
I understand why Jane did it. She wanted Clementine to see what lengths Kenny would go to in his rage and she was trying to show her the Kenny that Clementine knew wasn't there anymore; to open her eyes and not be held back because of her past with Kenny.
But wow, did she go about it wrong. Telling Kenny—a guy who has not only lost two of his loved ones but his own son, his own child!—that the baby he's taken responsibility of is now dead, and then not even making it clear that she wasn't the one who killed it...
It's just wrong. Plain wrong. You replace Kenny with someone else, Lee for example, and I doubt he'd react much better. He wouldn't have killed her, but he probably would have been damn well close to.
Yeah, he is great at having regrets, but he isn't learning from his mistakes. He does the same shit over and over again that leads to his mistakes. He also doesn't take responsibility for the shit he does. That's been this way the WHOLE game since Season 1 Episode 1 and the ending leaving Clem with the baby alone proves that again. First he get's mad as hell, does some super random retarded shit and when it all went to hell, he back's off and seeks the next trouble.
Sorry, that guy is nothing but trouble. Just proves Jane perfectly right.
Kenny saved Lee in Episode 1, and he does again at the end if you choose not to shoot him. Just watch that ending with him alive and tell me if you still think he was crazy after that.
REALLY? Jane wanted a fight, wanted to prove she was so superior to Kenny and everybody else in any group, she was selfish, and reckless.
… more Think about it this way, if it had been Lee instead of Kenny, and Clementine instead of AJ... what would have Lee done? And I use Lee, because I think we can all agree he was da man.
You don't pull out that kind of shit, Jane, not even during a non-apocalypse world, even less during one.
I agree with you. In the last episode Kenny got more and more brutal and he was more and more like "my way or no way at all". I was with Jane, even before she did her thing at the end.
Kenny saved Lee in Episode 1, and he does again at the end if you choose not to shoot him. Just watch that ending with him alive and tell me if you still think he was crazy after that.
Yeah, he is great at having regrets, but he isn't learning from his mistakes. He does the same shit over and over again that leads to his mi… morestakes. He also doesn't take responsibility for the shit he does. That's been this way the WHOLE game since Season 1 Episode 1 and the ending leaving Clem with the baby alone proves that again. First he get's mad as hell, does some super random retarded shit and when it all went to hell, he back's off and seeks the next trouble.
Sorry, that guy is nothing but trouble. Just proves Jane perfectly right.
She said it was an accident. Kenny didn't even hear her out, because of his previous disagreement with her.
Going on into blind rage (Kenny said so himself "Blackout") because of sole assumptions about what happened without looking at evidence AT ALL, is nothing Lee would have done, doesn't matter how you played him in. The way he was portrayed was a reasonable and calm guy, especially after he killed his wife's lover and deeply reflected on it.
Kenny just went on with his killing spree without thinking once about it (remember Larry?).
I understand why Jane did it. She wanted Clementine to see what lengths Kenny would go to in his rage and she was trying to show her the Ken… moreny that Clementine knew wasn't there anymore; to open her eyes and not be held back because of her past with Kenny.
But wow, did she go about it wrong. Telling Kenny—a guy who has not only lost two of his loved ones but his own son, his own child!—that the baby he's taken responsibility of is now dead, and then not even making it clear that she wasn't the one who killed it...
It's just wrong. Plain wrong. You replace Kenny with someone else, Lee for example, and I doubt he'd react much better. He wouldn't have killed her, but he probably would have been damn well close to.
You guys seem to not take into account that Kenny was single handedly responsible for Lukes'/Bonnies' deaths and Mike, and Arvo/Bonnie leaving + caused more deaths
But doesn't Jane steal Arvo's gun, regardless of whether you choose to steal the meds? That one event may have set off a chain reaction which caused all the deaths and departures in ep 5. Although, the Russians may have robbed us either way who knows...
You guys seem to not take into account that Kenny was single handedly responsible for Lukes'/Bonnies' deaths and Mike, and Arvo/Bonnie leaving + caused more deaths
Don't think because I supported Kenny, doesn't mean I don't understand where she was coming from. She was trying to pull out the inner-Kenny. Show the Monster inside of him. Was this a smart idea? Heck no, like not in a million years would I support this idea.
No here's my take on it by shamelessly taking this from another thread. So the facts are Jane pretended like the baby was dead so Kenny would either stay docile and probably start crying breaking down, or he would become enraged and attack Jane. She knew this, that's why she tells Clem to just watch.
Now in my general opinion Jane was wrong for many reasons but first let's back up ab it to Kenny and his rage. A parent can and will get very protective if someone tries to harm there child like Lee anytime anyone did anything to Clem or Kenny with Duck. When someone kills someone's child that throws them over the edge. In fact if there hadn't been so many people, and the walkers were at their doorstep I feel Kenny would have killed Ben on the spot for what he did. Now go back to S2E5 and let's look at Kenny's emotional loss list Duck, Katjaa, Ben (Determinate if you save him), Walter, Mathew, Sarita, and Alvin (Assumed at the time). That's a lot of ones family to lose in a short time not to mention all the other minor people he had probably become friends Mark, Carly/Doug, ect.
So now to the fight and why Jane was wrong. She comes back with no baby and Kenny assumes she killed the baby and she doesn't deny it. Now maybe if she denied it saying it was a walker I would have felt a little more anger towards Kenny, but she knew what she was doing. She put the baby in a car with broken windows (You could see the snow on the seat), without protection all just to prove a point.
Now as I said before you don't mess with a parent's child. By this point everyone knew Kenny had assumed lead-father role to the child, and she comes back and Kenny Accuses her of killing the baby and she doesn't say she didn't kill the baby, what do you expect to happen. It would be like if in E4 Chuck ran away with Clem only to come back saying he killed her. Lee would not be the happiest man in the world, and realistically probably would have killed Chuck in this scenario.
Yes Kenny is a broken man that could snap. But you don't intentionally make him snap by taking away his only salvation and making it assumed you killed his adoptive child, putting yourself, a baby, and even possibly Clem (Even though she doesn't in fights anything can happen), in danger.
Now let's add on more to this as, the more I read about this type of stuff the more thoughts pop into my head. Let's throw up another Example, of why what Jane did was wrong. Let's say the situation was different Jane was already in the store, and you pop in but this time you are a new character, let's call you Bob. The Kenny runs in. Jane asks "where's, Clem" Kenny puts a guilty look on his face causing Jane to ask again. (Also a little preface earlier in the day Kenny kept taunting Jane about how she is failure for letting everyone she knows die, mostly her sister). So Again Kenny once again stays silent. Jane puts a shocked face on and runs out yelling for Clem as she thinks Kenny killed Clem and Walks back inside. I have no doubt in my mind she would have attacked Kenny then if she was being truthful in her statements earlier in the episode.
Now Telltale has a way of adding things in to create an underlying meaning. Such as the choice to drop Ben in Crawford sort of being the "Will you become like then choice." Or how they'll show things in earlier episodes only for them to pop up later. Or underlying meanings to situations. This is good writing when people do that. Now when I look at he endings what do I say. In the Kenny/Clem Endings you see Clem happy and joking with Kenny as they race to the top of the hill and find Wellington. There is a heartfelt scene where you can either leave Kenny or stay with him and no matter what you choose it seems like an actual good ending. Now with the Jane Endings it seems more analytically. You look around at all that's left, look back on Carver, and other such stuff, then you have the choice of letting the family in. If you say no Jane agrees and Clem turns kind of survivalist and sinister. If you do let them in they say their thanks but Clem still seems sort of so-so. Now the final ending is of Clem on her own walking through a herd, just showing she is now a lone survivor at heart.
Now why do I explain each ending? Simple I feel the endings are basically choosing the way your Clem will turn out. The entire premise of this episode is who will your Clem be? Now with the Kenny endings, I feel that is showing Clem on a lighter note. It is showing her happy, but then sad as you have to make a choice on whether to stay or leave Wellington. I Honestly feel this is the closest to a Clem ending the way Lee would want to see it. Now with the Jane Endings you see Clem turns more analytical and a lot more like Molly/Jane. If you let the family in you turn more like a lighter Jane or a Molly, but if you turn them away you turn into a Carver/Darker Jane. Finally the ending of her by herself. In this one your Clem has become a true survivor living completely on her own and having to struggle through a herd now by yourself. (Personally I feel the alone Clem is her worst outcome and Wellington is her best.)
The question about her point isn't touched in any way by the question if she was honest or not. She showed that Kenny goes loose when he feels like it, even if he has no justification. He doesn't need any and that's exactly what Jane has proven to be true with Kenny.
It is wrong, but at the point of the fight we didn't know that.
Therefore I think the most moral thing to do is to shoot Kenny and then possibly leave Jane after she comes clean. That seems fair.
It is wrong, but at the point of the fight we didn't know that.
Therefore I think the most moral thing to do is to shoot Kenny and then possibly leave Jane after she comes clean. That seems fair.
But doesn't Jane steal Arvo's gun, regardless of whether you choose to steal the meds? That one event may have set off a chain reaction whic… moreh caused all the deaths and departures in ep 5. Although, the Russians may have robbed us either way who knows...
For me, it was never about moral high grounds. It was about her making me shoot a good friend so she could prove a bloody point. It was about not letting Jane continue to manipulate Clem/you any longer. I won't lie, I briefly considered the option of going with her, but it just left a sour taste in my mouth. To just say "OK, I forgive you, let's ride off into the sunset" after she manipulated Kenny into attacking her, knowing full well how much he cared for the baby's well-being and his quick his temper goes off. Would do the same thing if I was in that situation, even if it meant my or the baby's death. But Clementine has been taking care of herself and the baby for nine whole days, and proves she can make it far on her own. Kenny wasn't a perfect guy, far from it but I'd rather have had him at my side than Jane any day.
Nice wall of text, apart from the fact that Jane stated (right before they fight) that it was an accident, but Kenny just didn't listen to anything she said. I also disagree with your "Lee would want to see it". "My" Lee was a reasonable guy that tried to support Clem in the way that she will be able to handle herself in a world that went down the shitter (cutting her hair, showing her how to shoot, etc.). That's the same that Jane is up to with Clem (scavenging walkers), she wants her to be able to survive and not being too dependable (and thus vulnerable) on others. You see what Kenny "produced" with his own child, the male version of Sarah, a boy who was nicknamed after an animal that is usually shot by hunters.... I don't see how Lee would have wanted this for Clem in any way.
It feels like I played a totally different season 1 and have watched an entirely different relationship between Lee and Clem, if you really think Lee would have wanted that for Clem.
Don't think because I supported Kenny, doesn't mean I don't understand where she was coming from. She was trying to pull out the inner-Kenny… more. Show the Monster inside of him. Was this a smart idea? Heck no, like not in a million years would I support this idea.
No here's my take on it by shamelessly taking this from another thread. So the facts are Jane pretended like the baby was dead so Kenny would either stay docile and probably start crying breaking down, or he would become enraged and attack Jane. She knew this, that's why she tells Clem to just watch.
Now in my general opinion Jane was wrong for many reasons but first let's back up ab it to Kenny and his rage. A parent can and will get very protective if someone tries to harm there child like Lee anytime anyone did anything to Clem or Kenny with Duck. When someone kills someone's child that throws them over the edge. In fact if there hadn't been so many people, and the walkers were… [view original content]
I don't think what Jane did was all that clever, but then I don't think she would have reacted like Kenny if the situations had been reversed with Clem missing. I think she most likly would have just left, because that seems to be what she "always" does or if she attacked I highly doubt she would have attacked to kill Kenny, while he wanted her dead, he never did like her much. Jane after all felt guilty about killing a stranger that was shooting at her "friends" when she came back.
I don't think there is a right or wrong choice here. But Kenny, to me, seemed broken beyond repair. He was snapping at my Clem more and more and accidently hit her in the face and never appologised for that but still expected here to be on his side.
Also AJ isn't Kennies child. Even before Rebecca died he was clinging to him and didn't want to give him to his mother. I think the relationship he build with AJ was not very healthy. Yes he is the only one who ever was a father, but he was not alone to look after AJ.
Don't think because I supported Kenny, doesn't mean I don't understand where she was coming from. She was trying to pull out the inner-Kenny… more. Show the Monster inside of him. Was this a smart idea? Heck no, like not in a million years would I support this idea.
No here's my take on it by shamelessly taking this from another thread. So the facts are Jane pretended like the baby was dead so Kenny would either stay docile and probably start crying breaking down, or he would become enraged and attack Jane. She knew this, that's why she tells Clem to just watch.
Now in my general opinion Jane was wrong for many reasons but first let's back up ab it to Kenny and his rage. A parent can and will get very protective if someone tries to harm there child like Lee anytime anyone did anything to Clem or Kenny with Duck. When someone kills someone's child that throws them over the edge. In fact if there hadn't been so many people, and the walkers were… [view original content]
This was why I killed Kenny. You don't kill someone because it of an accident. Jane showed me how crazy Kenny had become. I was sad at having to do it. I actually said to Kenny why did you make me do this? I left Jane also
She didn't cause the death of his wife or son. And the objective facts are that Kenny was told it was an accident even if AJ WAS killed. He didn't handle it rationally. He instead tried to kill her for what was said to be an accident.
Yeah I understand where she's coming from, she's just a manipulative selfish bitch and anyone who sided with her want their Clem to grow up and become just the same way Jane is.
You're saying you should side with Kenny because Jane wasn't being truthful and was deliberately goading him. That doesn't make sense, as neither Kenny nor Clem knows she is lying when he attacks her.
All we know is he tried to murder a woman who accidentally lost a baby. That is why I sided with Jane.
Now, it's understandable why you may leave Jane once you find out she was lying. But you can't side against her just because of something that happens in the future. Not if you're taking the game's situations seriously, at any rate.
Don't think because I supported Kenny, doesn't mean I don't understand where she was coming from. She was trying to pull out the inner-Kenny… more. Show the Monster inside of him. Was this a smart idea? Heck no, like not in a million years would I support this idea.
No here's my take on it by shamelessly taking this from another thread. So the facts are Jane pretended like the baby was dead so Kenny would either stay docile and probably start crying breaking down, or he would become enraged and attack Jane. She knew this, that's why she tells Clem to just watch.
Now in my general opinion Jane was wrong for many reasons but first let's back up ab it to Kenny and his rage. A parent can and will get very protective if someone tries to harm there child like Lee anytime anyone did anything to Clem or Kenny with Duck. When someone kills someone's child that throws them over the edge. In fact if there hadn't been so many people, and the walkers were… [view original content]
Well
I shot Kenny mostly because he started going bat shit crazy and wasn't acting very rational. And I was happy to see that he was actually happy that Clem shot him, he wanted to die so basically if you keep him alive, you are just letting him live sad depressed life. Even though I was so sad and loved Kenny and his beard, it was the rational choice ;-;
I was really pissed off at Jane after, I knew why she did it but it was a bit too cruel. However, I still stuck with her because I finally understood that Kenny was indeed, a danger to us. And unlike other people I think that instead of Jane making Clementine more like her, Clem will make Jane a little bit more soft I think. Well depends on what you do in Season 3 of course.
From her point of view, Clementine was destroying herself going along with and apologizing for all of Kenny's violent behavior and stubbornness to cooperate outside of his very rigid parameters, or even cede a point to a group in agreement on what direction to take, even if Clem herself brings it up. Jane was beginning to actually care for Clem (after she swore off caring for pretty much anything other than herself) and did the only thing she could think to do in the situation she was given in order to save her new friend's life of torment.
I don't understand how nobody can sympathize with her. A bit cool and distant, but not prone to violent fits. A young girl who lost her sister and swore off ever having to lose someone again, only for strange little girl, who she sees a little of her old sister in, to make her actually start caring again. Kenny's story is equally as tragic, but I fail to see how her rash decision in this particular matter even comes close to any of the acts Kenny has justified with his feelings of loss and loneliness.
Kenny blowing up was bound to happen, it was inevitable, but how Jane went about it was completely wrong. She manipulated Kenny and Clem and… more egged Kenny on for nothing but to force a situation and prove a point. She put AJ in danger, forced Clem to kill someone she loved for nothing or gets killed herself, just to prove a point. It was ridiculous to do something like that. What she did wasn't right.
What would you have had her do? It wasn't exactly the ideal situation, but Kenny has proven time and again an inability to be reasoned with anymore. Its maybe not the best idea. I don't think anyone is arguing that it is. But the situation forced her hand, and she didn't want to see Clementine forever following an unhinged psychopath and apologizing for his violent and unreasonable behavior. But Clem wouldn't leave Kenny behind. At least, the game never presented me with the option (which I kind of feel a bit disappointed about). So Jane had to crackpot a test to see how Kenny would (predictably) react. Clem needed to see it. The baby couldn't be around during the (likely) scuffle. Perhaps, as she has claimed, she has seen and dealt with this kind of behavior before, and how ultimately detrimental it is.
So don't go claiming that her actions were based off of mere malice and petty jealousy. That her actions are as heinous as all the hatred and violence Kenny leaves in his wake. What she did wasn't black and white "wrong".
Don't think because I supported Kenny, doesn't mean I don't understand where she was coming from. She was trying to pull out the inner-Kenny… more. Show the Monster inside of him. Was this a smart idea? Heck no, like not in a million years would I support this idea.
No here's my take on it by shamelessly taking this from another thread. So the facts are Jane pretended like the baby was dead so Kenny would either stay docile and probably start crying breaking down, or he would become enraged and attack Jane. She knew this, that's why she tells Clem to just watch.
Now in my general opinion Jane was wrong for many reasons but first let's back up ab it to Kenny and his rage. A parent can and will get very protective if someone tries to harm there child like Lee anytime anyone did anything to Clem or Kenny with Duck. When someone kills someone's child that throws them over the edge. In fact if there hadn't been so many people, and the walkers were… [view original content]
Comments
Nah, he just loves Kenny enough that he'll defame anyone who isn't him and argues with him.
Plus there's the fact that Kenny threw the first punch, and was about to murder Jane.
Seconded.
I understand why Jane did it. She wanted Clementine to see what lengths Kenny would go to in his rage and she was trying to show her the Kenny that Clementine knew wasn't there anymore; to open her eyes and not be held back because of her past with Kenny.
But wow, did she go about it wrong. Telling Kenny—a guy who has not only lost two of his loved ones but his own son, his own child!—that the baby he's taken responsibility of is now dead, and then not even making it clear that she wasn't the one who killed it...
It's just wrong. Plain wrong. You replace Kenny with someone else, Lee for example, and I doubt he'd react much better. He wouldn't have killed her, but he probably would have been damn well close to.
Yeah, he is great at having regrets, but he isn't learning from his mistakes. He does the same shit over and over again that leads to his mistakes. He also doesn't take responsibility for the shit he does. That's been this way the WHOLE game since Season 1 Episode 1 and the ending leaving Clem with the baby alone proves that again. First he get's mad as hell, does some super random retarded shit and when it all went to hell, he back's off and seeks the next trouble.
Sorry, that guy is nothing but trouble. Just proves Jane perfectly right.
My Lee wouldn't have punched her and tried to murder her.
I agree with you. In the last episode Kenny got more and more brutal and he was more and more like "my way or no way at all". I was with Jane, even before she did her thing at the end.
Kenny left my Lee to die in episode 3, and refused to help a little child in episode 5 (season one).
Well said.
None of it was right
He called Clem a bitch and wanted to slap her.
Of course, they were both in the wrong.
Haha true dat
She might have had good intentions but the fact she lied and manipulated us just to prove that point was wrong.
It is wrong, but at the point of the fight we didn't know that.
Therefore I think the most moral thing to do is to shoot Kenny and then possibly leave Jane after she comes clean. That seems fair.
She said it was an accident. Kenny didn't even hear her out, because of his previous disagreement with her.
Going on into blind rage (Kenny said so himself "Blackout") because of sole assumptions about what happened without looking at evidence AT ALL, is nothing Lee would have done, doesn't matter how you played him in. The way he was portrayed was a reasonable and calm guy, especially after he killed his wife's lover and deeply reflected on it.
Kenny just went on with his killing spree without thinking once about it (remember Larry?).
You guys seem to not take into account that Kenny was single handedly responsible for Lukes'/Bonnies' deaths and Mike, and Arvo/Bonnie leaving + caused more deaths
I shot Kenny and you know what he said?
"Clem... You made the right choice".
Kenny ran out of road people, I didn't want to shoot him, he's been my bro since season 1, but this wasn't the same Kenny.
But doesn't Jane steal Arvo's gun, regardless of whether you choose to steal the meds? That one event may have set off a chain reaction which caused all the deaths and departures in ep 5. Although, the Russians may have robbed us either way who knows...
Don't think because I supported Kenny, doesn't mean I don't understand where she was coming from. She was trying to pull out the inner-Kenny. Show the Monster inside of him. Was this a smart idea? Heck no, like not in a million years would I support this idea.
No here's my take on it by shamelessly taking this from another thread. So the facts are Jane pretended like the baby was dead so Kenny would either stay docile and probably start crying breaking down, or he would become enraged and attack Jane. She knew this, that's why she tells Clem to just watch.
Now in my general opinion Jane was wrong for many reasons but first let's back up ab it to Kenny and his rage. A parent can and will get very protective if someone tries to harm there child like Lee anytime anyone did anything to Clem or Kenny with Duck. When someone kills someone's child that throws them over the edge. In fact if there hadn't been so many people, and the walkers were at their doorstep I feel Kenny would have killed Ben on the spot for what he did. Now go back to S2E5 and let's look at Kenny's emotional loss list Duck, Katjaa, Ben (Determinate if you save him), Walter, Mathew, Sarita, and Alvin (Assumed at the time). That's a lot of ones family to lose in a short time not to mention all the other minor people he had probably become friends Mark, Carly/Doug, ect.
So now to the fight and why Jane was wrong. She comes back with no baby and Kenny assumes she killed the baby and she doesn't deny it. Now maybe if she denied it saying it was a walker I would have felt a little more anger towards Kenny, but she knew what she was doing. She put the baby in a car with broken windows (You could see the snow on the seat), without protection all just to prove a point.
Now as I said before you don't mess with a parent's child. By this point everyone knew Kenny had assumed lead-father role to the child, and she comes back and Kenny Accuses her of killing the baby and she doesn't say she didn't kill the baby, what do you expect to happen. It would be like if in E4 Chuck ran away with Clem only to come back saying he killed her. Lee would not be the happiest man in the world, and realistically probably would have killed Chuck in this scenario.
Yes Kenny is a broken man that could snap. But you don't intentionally make him snap by taking away his only salvation and making it assumed you killed his adoptive child, putting yourself, a baby, and even possibly Clem (Even though she doesn't in fights anything can happen), in danger.
Now let's add on more to this as, the more I read about this type of stuff the more thoughts pop into my head. Let's throw up another Example, of why what Jane did was wrong. Let's say the situation was different Jane was already in the store, and you pop in but this time you are a new character, let's call you Bob. The Kenny runs in. Jane asks "where's, Clem" Kenny puts a guilty look on his face causing Jane to ask again. (Also a little preface earlier in the day Kenny kept taunting Jane about how she is failure for letting everyone she knows die, mostly her sister). So Again Kenny once again stays silent. Jane puts a shocked face on and runs out yelling for Clem as she thinks Kenny killed Clem and Walks back inside. I have no doubt in my mind she would have attacked Kenny then if she was being truthful in her statements earlier in the episode.
Now Telltale has a way of adding things in to create an underlying meaning. Such as the choice to drop Ben in Crawford sort of being the "Will you become like then choice." Or how they'll show things in earlier episodes only for them to pop up later. Or underlying meanings to situations. This is good writing when people do that. Now when I look at he endings what do I say. In the Kenny/Clem Endings you see Clem happy and joking with Kenny as they race to the top of the hill and find Wellington. There is a heartfelt scene where you can either leave Kenny or stay with him and no matter what you choose it seems like an actual good ending. Now with the Jane Endings it seems more analytically. You look around at all that's left, look back on Carver, and other such stuff, then you have the choice of letting the family in. If you say no Jane agrees and Clem turns kind of survivalist and sinister. If you do let them in they say their thanks but Clem still seems sort of so-so. Now the final ending is of Clem on her own walking through a herd, just showing she is now a lone survivor at heart.
Now why do I explain each ending? Simple I feel the endings are basically choosing the way your Clem will turn out. The entire premise of this episode is who will your Clem be? Now with the Kenny endings, I feel that is showing Clem on a lighter note. It is showing her happy, but then sad as you have to make a choice on whether to stay or leave Wellington. I Honestly feel this is the closest to a Clem ending the way Lee would want to see it. Now with the Jane Endings you see Clem turns more analytical and a lot more like Molly/Jane. If you let the family in you turn more like a lighter Jane or a Molly, but if you turn them away you turn into a Carver/Darker Jane. Finally the ending of her by herself. In this one your Clem has become a true survivor living completely on her own and having to struggle through a herd now by yourself. (Personally I feel the alone Clem is her worst outcome and Wellington is her best.)
What kind of logic is that?
The question about her point isn't touched in any way by the question if she was honest or not. She showed that Kenny goes loose when he feels like it, even if he has no justification. He doesn't need any and that's exactly what Jane has proven to be true with Kenny.
What's the purpose of leaving Jane at this point? Moral high grounds? Doesn't make you survive any better.
That's why I left her after.
if so they are both to blame
Fair enough.
I agree, and I didn't leave her, but I understand why people might.
For me, it was never about moral high grounds. It was about her making me shoot a good friend so she could prove a bloody point. It was about not letting Jane continue to manipulate Clem/you any longer. I won't lie, I briefly considered the option of going with her, but it just left a sour taste in my mouth. To just say "OK, I forgive you, let's ride off into the sunset" after she manipulated Kenny into attacking her, knowing full well how much he cared for the baby's well-being and his quick his temper goes off. Would do the same thing if I was in that situation, even if it meant my or the baby's death. But Clementine has been taking care of herself and the baby for nine whole days, and proves she can make it far on her own. Kenny wasn't a perfect guy, far from it but I'd rather have had him at my side than Jane any day.
Nice wall of text, apart from the fact that Jane stated (right before they fight) that it was an accident, but Kenny just didn't listen to anything she said. I also disagree with your "Lee would want to see it". "My" Lee was a reasonable guy that tried to support Clem in the way that she will be able to handle herself in a world that went down the shitter (cutting her hair, showing her how to shoot, etc.). That's the same that Jane is up to with Clem (scavenging walkers), she wants her to be able to survive and not being too dependable (and thus vulnerable) on others. You see what Kenny "produced" with his own child, the male version of Sarah, a boy who was nicknamed after an animal that is usually shot by hunters.... I don't see how Lee would have wanted this for Clem in any way.
It feels like I played a totally different season 1 and have watched an entirely different relationship between Lee and Clem, if you really think Lee would have wanted that for Clem.
Interestingly enough, she does call for help when you grab the gun.
I don't think what Jane did was all that clever, but then I don't think she would have reacted like Kenny if the situations had been reversed with Clem missing. I think she most likly would have just left, because that seems to be what she "always" does or if she attacked I highly doubt she would have attacked to kill Kenny, while he wanted her dead, he never did like her much. Jane after all felt guilty about killing a stranger that was shooting at her "friends" when she came back.
I don't think there is a right or wrong choice here. But Kenny, to me, seemed broken beyond repair. He was snapping at my Clem more and more and accidently hit her in the face and never appologised for that but still expected here to be on his side.
Also AJ isn't Kennies child. Even before Rebecca died he was clinging to him and didn't want to give him to his mother. I think the relationship he build with AJ was not very healthy. Yes he is the only one who ever was a father, but he was not alone to look after AJ.
Anyone who didn't see it was blind.
This was why I killed Kenny. You don't kill someone because it of an accident. Jane showed me how crazy Kenny had become. I was sad at having to do it. I actually said to Kenny why did you make me do this? I left Jane also
if the alternative is growing up like Kenny, i'd definitely take Jane. neither are ideal, though. i miss Luke.
Actually the RV was repaired, it just needed a jump-start plus Ben could've at least warn the group after he was deceived by the bandits.
obviously, because you're not doing anything. that makes it seem like clementine prefer kenny. she doesn't.
I understand it, just she was idiotic.
You're saying you should side with Kenny because Jane wasn't being truthful and was deliberately goading him. That doesn't make sense, as neither Kenny nor Clem knows she is lying when he attacks her.
All we know is he tried to murder a woman who accidentally lost a baby. That is why I sided with Jane.
Now, it's understandable why you may leave Jane once you find out she was lying. But you can't side against her just because of something that happens in the future. Not if you're taking the game's situations seriously, at any rate.
Well
I shot Kenny mostly because he started going bat shit crazy and wasn't acting very rational. And I was happy to see that he was actually happy that Clem shot him, he wanted to die so basically if you keep him alive, you are just letting him live sad depressed life. Even though I was so sad and loved Kenny and his beard, it was the rational choice ;-;
I was really pissed off at Jane after, I knew why she did it but it was a bit too cruel. However, I still stuck with her because I finally understood that Kenny was indeed, a danger to us. And unlike other people I think that instead of Jane making Clementine more like her, Clem will make Jane a little bit more soft I think. Well depends on what you do in Season 3 of course.
I'm with team Luke
Luke I miss you ;-;
From her point of view, Clementine was destroying herself going along with and apologizing for all of Kenny's violent behavior and stubbornness to cooperate outside of his very rigid parameters, or even cede a point to a group in agreement on what direction to take, even if Clem herself brings it up. Jane was beginning to actually care for Clem (after she swore off caring for pretty much anything other than herself) and did the only thing she could think to do in the situation she was given in order to save her new friend's life of torment.
I don't understand how nobody can sympathize with her. A bit cool and distant, but not prone to violent fits. A young girl who lost her sister and swore off ever having to lose someone again, only for strange little girl, who she sees a little of her old sister in, to make her actually start caring again. Kenny's story is equally as tragic, but I fail to see how her rash decision in this particular matter even comes close to any of the acts Kenny has justified with his feelings of loss and loneliness.
What would you have had her do? It wasn't exactly the ideal situation, but Kenny has proven time and again an inability to be reasoned with anymore. Its maybe not the best idea. I don't think anyone is arguing that it is. But the situation forced her hand, and she didn't want to see Clementine forever following an unhinged psychopath and apologizing for his violent and unreasonable behavior. But Clem wouldn't leave Kenny behind. At least, the game never presented me with the option (which I kind of feel a bit disappointed about). So Jane had to crackpot a test to see how Kenny would (predictably) react. Clem needed to see it. The baby couldn't be around during the (likely) scuffle. Perhaps, as she has claimed, she has seen and dealt with this kind of behavior before, and how ultimately detrimental it is.
So don't go claiming that her actions were based off of mere malice and petty jealousy. That her actions are as heinous as all the hatred and violence Kenny leaves in his wake. What she did wasn't black and white "wrong".