Thanks very much. I suffer from mental issues myself (hence my over analysis and attempts to draw parallels of certain ones to Arvo because of my 'history' with them) and I always get so paranoid that when people disagree with my opinions they really just don't like me. But that's super nice of you and I'm sure it'll be an amazing night.
Oh no sorry that's what I meant. I thought the 'Sorry I disagree' thing would be enough. I'm sorry about your rough morning, I hope your day gets better soon.
Well, I sure hope for the point of your thread, that you forgave Lilly and brought her along, then.
He brought the Russians on us out of his own selfishness, though. When they ambush our group,in the translation the Russian keeps asking to give them their medicine back, and calling them "fucking scavengers", even if Clem never stole a thing .
I think Arvo hid the supplies somewhere , as he was trying to when we caught him, and when the group asked him about it, he placed the blame on our group. Who knows why he was hiding the supplies? Maybe he was planning on making a go of it with only his sister. Get away from Vitali and Buricko, they seemed a bit crazy.
I don't think there was any real villain for the finale; other than the fallibility of human beings. Hence all the questionable behavior of just about everyone in the group. I just wish the whole thing was written more organically.
It was the same sort of problem that episode 4 had--it didn't really seem like your choices had any sort of weight. That's because primarily… more, I think, Telltale wrote them to be the 'villains' for an epic shoot out finale and that was that. Anyone with a purely good heart would have felt at least a tiny bit sorry for Arvo in episode 5--but it all leads to Telltale's ''fuck you for thinking that'' approach when he completely destroys the frail, illiterate prisoner approach when he shoots Clem. It was similar with the whole Pizza and Ice Cream nonsense. Everyone thought it would be a Luke vs Kenny finale but Telltale just "What? No. Fuck you for thinking that''
It really irks me that they solely wrote Arvo to just be a snake who lowers defenses and stabs them in the back.
Honestly, I felt bad for him, even though his actions were totally unjustified. Losing his sister probably broke him already, not to mention nearly getting beaten to death by Kenny. I actually have a lot respect for the balls it must've taken to talk back at Kenny.
In hindsight, the group should've treated him humanely and allowed Clementine to really apologize and explain that his sister turned. Still, I can't blame Kenny that much for beating on him. It's extremely tempting to take rage and frustration out on a captured enemy; ask anyone who's ever been in charge of P.O.W.'s. When that happens, prisoner and jailor both start resenting each-other more and more. Violence is the inevitable result.
If you read the translated dialogues, the Russians don't think you stole only the gun, if you did.
They keep shouting "Give us our medicine back!", "We want what's ours back!" and "You fucking scavengers!" throughout the whole shootout. They're convinced we're the bad guys.
I think Arvo did what he was gonna do when we first met him, and hid the supplies from his group. And then when they questioned him about it, he used our group as a scapegoat. Maybe he thought he would never run into Clem again.
I think he was planning to hide the supplies so he could make a run for it with his sister later, alone. Vitali and Buricko seemed crazy, I think they wanted to get away from them.
My main beef with Arvo was him holding that grudge against Clem even if you argue for Kenny to lay off him. The lack of any real dialogue fl… moreeshing out his circumstances before the shoot out didn't help either. Getting his group to come after you over a gun is just beyond stupid. The drugs I could understand but any idiot should know why they wouldn't trust him to keep the weapon. I suspect Arvo hid the drugs elsewhere and blamed your group and things escalated from there (if there is dialogue that indicates otherwise feel free to say so).
However, at the end of the day, if you want people to like a character you have to put in that extra work to make it so. Especially if you're going to have them do things as controversial as shooting the playable character.
I don't think there was any real villain for the finale; other than the fallibility of human beings. Hence all the questionable behavior of just about everyone in the group. I just wish the whole thing was written more organically.
I'm not exactly sure if he never thought he'd run into them again. With as crazy (that's pretty spot on, considering Vitali was talking about eating everyone's entrails) as Buricko and Vitali were, I imagine they all but forced Arvo into the position where he had to go find them.
Yeah, I can buy that 'trying to get away from them', it seems plausible. Not only is it evident how extremely attached Arvo is to Natasha, but Natasha had to reciprocate that in order for him to feel so loyal and dependent--trust, I have siblings, but we're all teenagers so we do /not/ have any sort of tight relationship like that--so, it would make sense he wanted to run away from that to protect her, and her protect him. I wish there was a little more insight onto their relationship--I find bonds like that really kind of cute.
If you read the translated dialogues, the Russians don't think you stole only the gun, if you did.
They keep shouting "Give us our medici… morene back!", "We want what's ours back!" and "You fucking scavengers!" throughout the whole shootout. They're convinced we're the bad guys.
I think Arvo did what he was gonna do when we first met him, and hid the supplies from his group. And then when they questioned him about it, he used our group as a scapegoat. Maybe he thought he would never run into Clem again.
I think he was planning to hide the supplies so he could make a run for it with his sister later, alone. Vitali and Buricko seemed crazy, I think they wanted to get away from them.
I'm not exactly sure if he never thought he'd run into them again. With as crazy (that's pretty spot on, considering Vitali was talking about eating everyone's entrails) as Buricko and Vitali were, I imagine they all but forced Arvo into the position where he had to go find them.
Yeah, I can buy that 'trying to get away from them', it seems plausible. Not only is it evident how extremely attached Arvo is to Natasha, but Natasha had to reciprocate that in order for him to feel so loyal and dependent--trust, I have siblings, but we're all teenagers so we do /not/ have any sort of tight relationship like that--so, it would make sense he wanted to run away from that to protect her, and her protect him. I wish there was a little more insight onto their relationship--I find bonds like that really kind of cute.
If you read the translated dialogues, the Russians don't think you stole only the gun, if you did.
They keep shouting "Give us our medici… morene back!", "We want what's ours back!" and "You fucking scavengers!" throughout the whole shootout. They're convinced we're the bad guys.
I think Arvo did what he was gonna do when we first met him, and hid the supplies from his group. And then when they questioned him about it, he used our group as a scapegoat. Maybe he thought he would never run into Clem again.
I think he was planning to hide the supplies so he could make a run for it with his sister later, alone. Vitali and Buricko seemed crazy, I think they wanted to get away from them.
Ah thanks. I hadn't gotten around to seeing if anyone did translations again. And yeah, I also think he and his sister might've had plans to separate from the others.
If you read the translated dialogues, the Russians don't think you stole only the gun, if you did.
They keep shouting "Give us our medici… morene back!", "We want what's ours back!" and "You fucking scavengers!" throughout the whole shootout. They're convinced we're the bad guys.
I think Arvo did what he was gonna do when we first met him, and hid the supplies from his group. And then when they questioned him about it, he used our group as a scapegoat. Maybe he thought he would never run into Clem again.
I think he was planning to hide the supplies so he could make a run for it with his sister later, alone. Vitali and Buricko seemed crazy, I think they wanted to get away from them.
It's really tragic, if you think about it. He only did what he did because he wanted to escape from the crazy guys with his sister, but she ended up dead in the end.
Ah thanks. I hadn't gotten around to seeing if anyone did translations again. And yeah, I also think he and his sister might've had plans to separate from the others.
He had a tough sister and a tight-knit group of survivalists to protect him. Could be he also had some particular skill that meant he was worth saving. We know he spoke English far better than the rest of his group, which, given they were in the US would itself have been very valuable to them.
Arvo is weak. Let's be serious here, he shouldn't have lasted that long in the apocalypse to begin with. Why did Lee died and this guy with a bad leg, glasses and the body frame of a 12 year old survived... WHY.
I dont feel bad for him.
First he thought that he can just rob someone without them defending themselves, and he took a great pleasure in that.
When it turned out not to be soo easy he became a coward.
He also wanted the group to be killed, but not by him, as part of revenge. Which is why he led them to the lake. There is no way that he would carry those medicine on a day walk trip to hide it in the museum. Their base was near, and he chose the most dangerous hideout, with hopes of getting them killed.
I did. When I was a kid, I got a best friend who pushed that whole 'treat others nicer then they treated you' mentality, so that's what I've grown into, you know?
The only Russian word I know is 'entrails'. (don't ask how, it just sort of happened that I learned it) so, I started laughing when I heard Vitali say it.Then, I read the actual translation and--yeah. He's crazy. I'd understand completely if Arvo would have done anything to get away from him.
Well, I sure hope for the point of your thread, that you forgave Lilly and brought her along, then.
He brought the Russians on us out of … morehis own selfishness, though. When they ambush our group,in the translation the Russian keeps asking to give them their medicine back, and calling them "fucking scavengers", even if Clem never stole a thing .
I think Arvo hid the supplies somewhere , as he was trying to when we caught him, and when the group asked him about it, he placed the blame on our group. Who knows why he was hiding the supplies? Maybe he was planning on making a go of it with only his sister. Get away from Vitali and Buricko, they seemed a bit crazy.
He survived because the people he was with--Vitali and Buricko--were crazy. I mean, the translation has Vitali threatening to eat the group's entrails. They would have killed anyone who were a threat to them--most likely the only reason that they didn't shoot them all dead was because they had no idea where their supplies were--if it was on them at all, if they had hid it as well, etc--they most likely would have if they were given it back. Natasha seemed closer to their age, so maybe she was involved with one of them--maybe as a way to make sure her brother was safe.
He had a tough sister and a tight-knit group of survivalists to protect him. Could be he also had some particular skill that meant he was wo… morerth saving. We know he spoke English far better than the rest of his group, which, given they were in the US would itself have been very valuable to them.
He was a kid, as well--with the same amount of control that kids have. I mean, I'm 17 myself and I blow up over the littlest things--only a matter of time after being beaten, abused, and treated like a prisoner before someone snapped. He had a grudge against Clementine for what she did to his sister, that's no question, but he also may have gotten... jealous? At the way they were treating her, and the obvious favoritism, despite her being a fellow child.
Honestly, I felt bad for him, even though his actions were totally unjustified. Losing his sister probably broke him already, not to mentio… moren nearly getting beaten to death by Kenny. I actually have a lot respect for the balls it must've taken to talk back at Kenny.
In hindsight, the group should've treated him humanely and allowed Clementine to really apologize and explain that his sister turned. Still, I can't blame Kenny that much for beating on him. It's extremely tempting to take rage and frustration out on a captured enemy; ask anyone who's ever been in charge of P.O.W.'s. When that happens, prisoner and jailor both start resenting each-other more and more. Violence is the inevitable result.
I wholeheartedly believe that the lake wasn't his fault. Firstly, depending on the choice, it's actually Kenny who decides that crossing the lake is the quickest way ("The fastest way between two... things is a straight line.") Secondly, Arvo volunteered to cross first (and then reassured everyone when he was volunteered by Kenny) When you first meet him, it's pretty much cemented straight off that Arvo is a coward with a fear of dying. If he thought there was the slimmest chance that the ice would have broken, he most likely wouldn't have touched it, he probably would have volunteered Clementine, as she is the lightest, second to the baby.
You have to remember that, for a period of time, Arvo and his group (or at least Arvo and his sister) lived in that house--meaning that they had to cross that lake if they ever wanted to go in that direction. We know for a fact that Arvo crossed that lake three times before--he would have been more confident than anyone with crossing it.
I dont feel bad for him.
First he thought that he can just rob someone without them defending themselves, and he took a great pleasure in t… morehat.
When it turned out not to be soo easy he became a coward.
He also wanted the group to be killed, but not by him, as part of revenge. Which is why he led them to the lake. There is no way that he would carry those medicine on a day walk trip to hide it in the museum. Their base was near, and he chose the most dangerous hideout, with hopes of getting them killed.
Not asking anyone to feel sympathy, just trying to get people to understand that--just like any survivor, he's made his own bad choices, and there's reason behind it. It's more out of understanding than out of pity.
Because Mike feels bad for Arvo after seeing how insane Kenny had become. Remember that the first time he and Kenny interacted, Kenny picked a fight and brought zombies into Howe's Hardware.
I guess Carver wasnt a bad person either? I mean sure he made some "bad decisions" but he did it because -insert bullshit excuse that tries to justify trying to kill someone-
That's pretty much it - he relied on the kindness of stronger people, be they Buricko or Mike, to survive. Not to mention he himself is mentally resilient - he broke after days of being Kenny's captive, and ended up becoming cold-hearted enough to try and murder a little child.
Despite all this, I don't think Arvo was inherently a bad person any more than Kenny was. They were both put through terrible amounts of stress and did regrettable things. I'm interested to see whether he hardens into a monster or shows genuine remorse for what he did to Clem.
He survived because the people he was with--Vitali and Buricko--were crazy. I mean, the translation has Vitali threatening to eat the group'… mores entrails. They would have killed anyone who were a threat to them--most likely the only reason that they didn't shoot them all dead was because they had no idea where their supplies were--if it was on them at all, if they had hid it as well, etc--they most likely would have if they were given it back. Natasha seemed closer to their age, so maybe she was involved with one of them--maybe as a way to make sure her brother was safe.
Carlos, Nick and Rebecca all wanted Clem dead at first. We forgave them (well, I forgave the latter two anyway.) A lot of people were even willing to justify the unforgivable crimes of Carver.
Things are more complicated than what people personally do to you.
And I believe that his plan was to get the Clems group killed, without doing it himself. It makes sense. And its probably something I would do if I was in his situation. The reason for that oppinion is:
-He didnt take them to his/their base. Their base must have been much closer, since he had time to get to museum, get back from museum, notify others, and they still had enough time to set up an ambush near the museum. Compare that to the place he took them to. It took them 24 hours of walking to get there. Not to mention that no one could live there. And also he had enough medicine to fill out the entire bag, but their base has 2 bags of supplies?
-I think he knew the area, because he hid supplies in many places, and knew what the most dangerous place at the time is. Thats why he ran for no reason, and offered to go first. He expected ice to give way or walkers to catch up.
I wholeheartedly believe that the lake wasn't his fault. Firstly, depending on the choice, it's actually Kenny who decides that crossing the… more lake is the quickest way ("The fastest way between two... things is a straight line.") Secondly, Arvo volunteered to cross first (and then reassured everyone when he was volunteered by Kenny) When you first meet him, it's pretty much cemented straight off that Arvo is a coward with a fear of dying. If he thought there was the slimmest chance that the ice would have broken, he most likely wouldn't have touched it, he probably would have volunteered Clementine, as she is the lightest, second to the baby.
You have to remember that, for a period of time, Arvo and his group (or at least Arvo and his sister) lived in that house--meaning that they had to cross that lake if they ever wanted to go in that direction. We know for a fact that Arvo crossed that lake three times before--he would have been more confident than anyone with crossing it.
Yet when Arvo reaches the house and Kenny starts berating him right then and there for lying EVEN WITHOUT LOOKING FOR SUPPLIES, Arvo snaps. I think it's at that point that he stopped caring about his life, and deliberately goaded Kenny into beating on him.
Just like how it's implied in Omid The Ruins that Kenny wanted Carver to kill him...
I wholeheartedly believe that the lake wasn't his fault. Firstly, depending on the choice, it's actually Kenny who decides that crossing the… more lake is the quickest way ("The fastest way between two... things is a straight line.") Secondly, Arvo volunteered to cross first (and then reassured everyone when he was volunteered by Kenny) When you first meet him, it's pretty much cemented straight off that Arvo is a coward with a fear of dying. If he thought there was the slimmest chance that the ice would have broken, he most likely wouldn't have touched it, he probably would have volunteered Clementine, as she is the lightest, second to the baby.
You have to remember that, for a period of time, Arvo and his group (or at least Arvo and his sister) lived in that house--meaning that they had to cross that lake if they ever wanted to go in that direction. We know for a fact that Arvo crossed that lake three times before--he would have been more confident than anyone with crossing it.
true but my clementine was nice to avro did all she could to stop kenny and said she was sorry about his sister if in season 3 clementine meets up with avro and he glares at clementine again i'll kill him and she shot kenny to he died with a smile on his face he was going to see his family
Arvo had balls, I'll say that. He threatened Jane when she tried to rob him, and stood up to Kenny after taking him to his house and being … moretold that he was a liar WITHOUT KENNY EVEN TAKING A MOMENT TO SEE IF ARVO WAS TELLING THE TRUTH.
Shooting Clem still reeks of trying to retroactively justify all the racism and irrational hate Kenny was piling onto him, and it bothers me that his fans have swallowed it without question. You might try to justify it as him being paranoid, or wanting to spite Kenny by hurting his loved one, but in the end it happens so that we feel wrong about sympathizing with a beaten, scared, physically disabled boy who lost his whole family and was getting abused by a raging madman.
Sure, you defend Arvo, but you assume the other Russians are bad dudes based on what? That they were yelling some stuff to sound intimidating in the middle of a gun fight? You just want them to be crazy so you can justify Arvo stealing from the group that has apparently been keeping him safe. Maybe he was hiding the medicine cuz he wanted it all for himself? Like Lilly said, stealing from the group is like killing them, and thats what Arvo was doing.
I did. When I was a kid, I got a best friend who pushed that whole 'treat others nicer then they treated you' mentality, so that's what I've… more grown into, you know?
The only Russian word I know is 'entrails'. (don't ask how, it just sort of happened that I learned it) so, I started laughing when I heard Vitali say it.Then, I read the actual translation and--yeah. He's crazy. I'd understand completely if Arvo would have done anything to get away from him.
Why, then, did he talk about his 'sick sister' when Jane tries robbing him? We know that he HAD a sister and she didn't live long enough for us to determine whether she really was sick or not.
I think that Arvo was trying to drop supplies off at the observation deck so that his group would have less stuff to carry once they moved into the deck. Unfortunately, Jane's intervention meant that there was a possible threat to his group and Buricko, the presumable leader of the group, then decides to rob them rather than risk getting robbed themselves.
If anything, Buricko and Vitali are 'bad dudes' compared to Arvo and Natasha, who at least tried to calm things down rather than act stupidly tough.
Sure, you defend Arvo, but you assume the other Russians are bad dudes based on what? That they were yelling some stuff to sound intimidatin… moreg in the middle of a gun fight? You just want them to be crazy so you can justify Arvo stealing from the group that has apparently been keeping him safe. Maybe he was hiding the medicine cuz he wanted it all for himself? Like Lilly said, stealing from the group is like killing them, and thats what Arvo was doing.
Carlos, Nick and Rebecca all wanted Clem dead at first. We forgave them (well, I forgave the latter two anyway.) A lot of people were even… more willing to justify the unforgivable crimes of Carver.
Things are more complicated than what people personally do to you.
So just a question, are you assuming that the house was on an island in the middle of that lake? Cause it obviously wasn't considering the truck and the fact that they drove away in said truck meaning that there was another way across that didn't involve walking on a frozen lake. And Arvo had lived in that house so he knew about this. When the others are discussing another way around, he absolutely insisted they go across the lake. Then after everything goes to hell, he gives Clementine a look that lends more proof that he was hoping to kill her or that he was glad her friend was dead. I think he really planned for a happy accident to happen there and as you said, he was more familiar with the area so he had confidence he could cross it. And honestly, would you rather be the person in the front or the back of the line? By the time everyone else has trampled on that ice, it's gonna be a lot less sturdy.
I wholeheartedly believe that the lake wasn't his fault. Firstly, depending on the choice, it's actually Kenny who decides that crossing the… more lake is the quickest way ("The fastest way between two... things is a straight line.") Secondly, Arvo volunteered to cross first (and then reassured everyone when he was volunteered by Kenny) When you first meet him, it's pretty much cemented straight off that Arvo is a coward with a fear of dying. If he thought there was the slimmest chance that the ice would have broken, he most likely wouldn't have touched it, he probably would have volunteered Clementine, as she is the lightest, second to the baby.
You have to remember that, for a period of time, Arvo and his group (or at least Arvo and his sister) lived in that house--meaning that they had to cross that lake if they ever wanted to go in that direction. We know for a fact that Arvo crossed that lake three times before--he would have been more confident than anyone with crossing it.
Not asking anyone to feel sympathy, just trying to get people to understand that--just like any survivor, he's made his own bad choices, and there's reason behind it. It's more out of understanding than out of pity.
The group had two cripples and were being pursued by zombies, and it was Kenny himself who agreed with the idea to walk across the lake. Arvo also fearlessly walked across the lake to demonstrate it was possible, when he could have just allowed the others to take that risk and die first. We can't forget that.
So just a question, are you assuming that the house was on an island in the middle of that lake? Cause it obviously wasn't considering the t… moreruck and the fact that they drove away in said truck meaning that there was another way across that didn't involve walking on a frozen lake. And Arvo had lived in that house so he knew about this. When the others are discussing another way around, he absolutely insisted they go across the lake. Then after everything goes to hell, he gives Clementine a look that lends more proof that he was hoping to kill her or that he was glad her friend was dead. I think he really planned for a happy accident to happen there and as you said, he was more familiar with the area so he had confidence he could cross it. And honestly, would you rather be the person in the front or the back of the line? By the time everyone else has trampled on that ice, it's gonna be a lot less sturdy.
The complication is that he was under a lot of stress caused by Kenny's abuse of him, and he made a regrettable, irrational decision. Just like Rebecca was first willing to let Clem die out of paranoia, and how Carlos proposed a plan where he knew full well that Clem would have gotten sicker either way, and how Nick almost blew off Clem's face because he'd had bad experiences with people getting bitten before...
We eventually spent enough time with the cabin group when they'd calmed down to know that they weren't inherently bad people. Arvo never had that chance.
Carlos, Nick and Rebecca never shot or even hurt Clementine, I don't think Carver did either.
What's complicated? Arvo shot me, I want him dead, end of! Sorry if I'm not on my knees saying Arvo is a hero and I feel SO sorry for him.
Maybe to get more sympathy? I know I didnt rob him cuz when he said "sick sister" I imagined a little kid.
Also, the Russian translation apparently says that they were yelling at us to give back their medicine, even if we didnt take it, so obviously he was hiding it from them and then blamed it on us when they noticed it was missing. Considering he was the only one who spoke English it was a perfect plan since we couldnt tell them the truth. And it makes NO SENSE to leave something as valuable as medical supplies unattended just cuz you dont want to carry an extra bag.
Why, then, did he talk about his 'sick sister' when Jane tries robbing him? We know that he HAD a sister and she didn't live long enough fo… morer us to determine whether she really was sick or not.
I think that Arvo was trying to drop supplies off at the observation deck so that his group would have less stuff to carry once they moved into the deck. Unfortunately, Jane's intervention meant that there was a possible threat to his group and Buricko, the presumable leader of the group, then decides to rob them rather than risk getting robbed themselves.
If anything, Buricko and Vitali are 'bad dudes' compared to Arvo and Natasha, who at least tried to calm things down rather than act stupidly tough.
Arvo has plenty of chances. Kenny beat him because he defied him. If he didn't run off then Kenny wouldn't have beaten him, it highly didn't help that he said 'F*** you' to Kenny, TWICE! What did he do when he shot her, he ran off, he gave death glares when she was freezing because of hypothermia! Arvo just wasn't a good guy, go ask my friend called 'The Truth'.
The complication is that he was under a lot of stress caused by Kenny's abuse of him, and he made a regrettable, irrational decision. Just … morelike Rebecca was first willing to let Clem die out of paranoia, and how Carlos proposed a plan where he knew full well that Clem would have gotten sicker either way, and how Nick almost blew off Clem's face because he'd had bad experiences with people getting bitten before...
We eventually spent enough time with the cabin group when they'd calmed down to know that they weren't inherently bad people. Arvo never had that chance.
At this point in the apocalypse, hardly anyone can be considered a 'good guy'--it all boils down to perspective. Also, this whole thing isn't to make people think he is a good person, or to give him sympathy. It's so people understand that Arvo--like pretty much everyone else--has made shitty decisions. It's out of understanding, not pity or symapthy.
Arvo has plenty of chances. Kenny beat him because he defied him. If he didn't run off then Kenny wouldn't have beaten him, it highly didn't… more help that he said 'F*** you' to Kenny, TWICE! What did he do when he shot her, he ran off, he gave death glares when she was freezing because of hypothermia! Arvo just wasn't a good guy, go ask my friend called 'The Truth'.
Comments
Thanks very much. I suffer from mental issues myself (hence my over analysis and attempts to draw parallels of certain ones to Arvo because of my 'history' with them) and I always get so paranoid that when people disagree with my opinions they really just don't like me. But that's super nice of you and I'm sure it'll be an amazing night.
Well, I sure hope for the point of your thread, that you forgave Lilly and brought her along, then.
He brought the Russians on us out of his own selfishness, though. When they ambush our group,in the translation the Russian keeps asking to give them their medicine back, and calling them "fucking scavengers", even if Clem never stole a thing .
I think Arvo hid the supplies somewhere , as he was trying to when we caught him, and when the group asked him about it, he placed the blame on our group. Who knows why he was hiding the supplies? Maybe he was planning on making a go of it with only his sister. Get away from Vitali and Buricko, they seemed a bit crazy.
I had sympathy for the guy because of how Kenny treated him, but wow. You took that on a whole other level! Nice piece here!
I don't think there was any real villain for the finale; other than the fallibility of human beings. Hence all the questionable behavior of just about everyone in the group. I just wish the whole thing was written more organically.
Honestly, I felt bad for him, even though his actions were totally unjustified. Losing his sister probably broke him already, not to mention nearly getting beaten to death by Kenny. I actually have a lot respect for the balls it must've taken to talk back at Kenny.
In hindsight, the group should've treated him humanely and allowed Clementine to really apologize and explain that his sister turned. Still, I can't blame Kenny that much for beating on him. It's extremely tempting to take rage and frustration out on a captured enemy; ask anyone who's ever been in charge of P.O.W.'s. When that happens, prisoner and jailor both start resenting each-other more and more. Violence is the inevitable result.
If you read the translated dialogues, the Russians don't think you stole only the gun, if you did.
They keep shouting "Give us our medicine back!", "We want what's ours back!" and "You fucking scavengers!" throughout the whole shootout. They're convinced we're the bad guys.
I think Arvo did what he was gonna do when we first met him, and hid the supplies from his group. And then when they questioned him about it, he used our group as a scapegoat. Maybe he thought he would never run into Clem again.
I think he was planning to hide the supplies so he could make a run for it with his sister later, alone. Vitali and Buricko seemed crazy, I think they wanted to get away from them.
There was a lot more potential that could be done with it, I really think so.
I'm not exactly sure if he never thought he'd run into them again. With as crazy (that's pretty spot on, considering Vitali was talking about eating everyone's entrails) as Buricko and Vitali were, I imagine they all but forced Arvo into the position where he had to go find them.
Yeah, I can buy that 'trying to get away from them', it seems plausible. Not only is it evident how extremely attached Arvo is to Natasha, but Natasha had to reciprocate that in order for him to feel so loyal and dependent--trust, I have siblings, but we're all teenagers so we do /not/ have any sort of tight relationship like that--so, it would make sense he wanted to run away from that to protect her, and her protect him. I wish there was a little more insight onto their relationship--I find bonds like that really kind of cute.
I'm not exactly sure if he never thought he'd run into them again. With as crazy (that's pretty spot on, considering Vitali was talking about eating everyone's entrails) as Buricko and Vitali were, I imagine they all but forced Arvo into the position where he had to go find them.
Yeah, I can buy that 'trying to get away from them', it seems plausible. Not only is it evident how extremely attached Arvo is to Natasha, but Natasha had to reciprocate that in order for him to feel so loyal and dependent--trust, I have siblings, but we're all teenagers so we do /not/ have any sort of tight relationship like that--so, it would make sense he wanted to run away from that to protect her, and her protect him. I wish there was a little more insight onto their relationship--I find bonds like that really kind of cute.
Ah thanks. I hadn't gotten around to seeing if anyone did translations again. And yeah, I also think he and his sister might've had plans to separate from the others.
It's really tragic, if you think about it. He only did what he did because he wanted to escape from the crazy guys with his sister, but she ended up dead in the end.
He had a tough sister and a tight-knit group of survivalists to protect him. Could be he also had some particular skill that meant he was worth saving. We know he spoke English far better than the rest of his group, which, given they were in the US would itself have been very valuable to them.
I dont feel bad for him.
First he thought that he can just rob someone without them defending themselves, and he took a great pleasure in that.
When it turned out not to be soo easy he became a coward.
He also wanted the group to be killed, but not by him, as part of revenge. Which is why he led them to the lake. There is no way that he would carry those medicine on a day walk trip to hide it in the museum. Their base was near, and he chose the most dangerous hideout, with hopes of getting them killed.
I did. When I was a kid, I got a best friend who pushed that whole 'treat others nicer then they treated you' mentality, so that's what I've grown into, you know?
The only Russian word I know is 'entrails'. (don't ask how, it just sort of happened that I learned it) so, I started laughing when I heard Vitali say it.Then, I read the actual translation and--yeah. He's crazy. I'd understand completely if Arvo would have done anything to get away from him.
He survived because the people he was with--Vitali and Buricko--were crazy. I mean, the translation has Vitali threatening to eat the group's entrails. They would have killed anyone who were a threat to them--most likely the only reason that they didn't shoot them all dead was because they had no idea where their supplies were--if it was on them at all, if they had hid it as well, etc--they most likely would have if they were given it back. Natasha seemed closer to their age, so maybe she was involved with one of them--maybe as a way to make sure her brother was safe.
Well, he wanted Clem dead, so sorry if a have no sympathy whatsoever.
He was a kid, as well--with the same amount of control that kids have. I mean, I'm 17 myself and I blow up over the littlest things--only a matter of time after being beaten, abused, and treated like a prisoner before someone snapped. He had a grudge against Clementine for what she did to his sister, that's no question, but he also may have gotten... jealous? At the way they were treating her, and the obvious favoritism, despite her being a fellow child.
I wholeheartedly believe that the lake wasn't his fault. Firstly, depending on the choice, it's actually Kenny who decides that crossing the lake is the quickest way ("The fastest way between two... things is a straight line.") Secondly, Arvo volunteered to cross first (and then reassured everyone when he was volunteered by Kenny) When you first meet him, it's pretty much cemented straight off that Arvo is a coward with a fear of dying. If he thought there was the slimmest chance that the ice would have broken, he most likely wouldn't have touched it, he probably would have volunteered Clementine, as she is the lightest, second to the baby.
You have to remember that, for a period of time, Arvo and his group (or at least Arvo and his sister) lived in that house--meaning that they had to cross that lake if they ever wanted to go in that direction. We know for a fact that Arvo crossed that lake three times before--he would have been more confident than anyone with crossing it.
Not asking anyone to feel sympathy, just trying to get people to understand that--just like any survivor, he's made his own bad choices, and there's reason behind it. It's more out of understanding than out of pity.
I did, but after discovering he doesn't stop the group from attacking you either way I was like
HELL NO, THAT BITCH'S GOING DOWN IF TELLTALE GIVES ME THE CHANCE.
But Kenny can give his life trying to save Ben. Arvo shot at Clem when she was no real treat.
Yah, he feels SOOOOO bad for poor Arvo hes willing to steal ALL our supplies and leave a little girl and a baby to starve to death.
I guess Carver wasnt a bad person either? I mean sure he made some "bad decisions" but he did it because -insert bullshit excuse that tries to justify trying to kill someone-
That's pretty much it - he relied on the kindness of stronger people, be they Buricko or Mike, to survive. Not to mention he himself is mentally resilient - he broke after days of being Kenny's captive, and ended up becoming cold-hearted enough to try and murder a little child.
Despite all this, I don't think Arvo was inherently a bad person any more than Kenny was. They were both put through terrible amounts of stress and did regrettable things. I'm interested to see whether he hardens into a monster or shows genuine remorse for what he did to Clem.
Carlos, Nick and Rebecca all wanted Clem dead at first. We forgave them (well, I forgave the latter two anyway.) A lot of people were even willing to justify the unforgivable crimes of Carver.
Things are more complicated than what people personally do to you.
And I believe that his plan was to get the Clems group killed, without doing it himself. It makes sense. And its probably something I would do if I was in his situation. The reason for that oppinion is:
-He didnt take them to his/their base. Their base must have been much closer, since he had time to get to museum, get back from museum, notify others, and they still had enough time to set up an ambush near the museum. Compare that to the place he took them to. It took them 24 hours of walking to get there. Not to mention that no one could live there. And also he had enough medicine to fill out the entire bag, but their base has 2 bags of supplies?
-I think he knew the area, because he hid supplies in many places, and knew what the most dangerous place at the time is. Thats why he ran for no reason, and offered to go first. He expected ice to give way or walkers to catch up.
Yet when Arvo reaches the house and Kenny starts berating him right then and there for lying EVEN WITHOUT LOOKING FOR SUPPLIES, Arvo snaps. I think it's at that point that he stopped caring about his life, and deliberately goaded Kenny into beating on him.
Just like how it's implied in Omid The Ruins that Kenny wanted Carver to kill him...
true but my clementine was nice to avro did all she could to stop kenny and said she was sorry about his sister if in season 3 clementine meets up with avro and he glares at clementine again i'll kill him and she shot kenny to he died with a smile on his face he was going to see his family
Sure, you defend Arvo, but you assume the other Russians are bad dudes based on what? That they were yelling some stuff to sound intimidating in the middle of a gun fight? You just want them to be crazy so you can justify Arvo stealing from the group that has apparently been keeping him safe. Maybe he was hiding the medicine cuz he wanted it all for himself? Like Lilly said, stealing from the group is like killing them, and thats what Arvo was doing.
Why, then, did he talk about his 'sick sister' when Jane tries robbing him? We know that he HAD a sister and she didn't live long enough for us to determine whether she really was sick or not.
I think that Arvo was trying to drop supplies off at the observation deck so that his group would have less stuff to carry once they moved into the deck. Unfortunately, Jane's intervention meant that there was a possible threat to his group and Buricko, the presumable leader of the group, then decides to rob them rather than risk getting robbed themselves.
If anything, Buricko and Vitali are 'bad dudes' compared to Arvo and Natasha, who at least tried to calm things down rather than act stupidly tough.
Carlos, Nick and Rebecca never shot or even hurt Clementine, I don't think Carver did either.
What's complicated? Arvo shot me, I want him dead, end of! Sorry if I'm not on my knees saying Arvo is a hero and I feel SO sorry for him.
Read the comment below this discussion, I err... clicked the wrong button...
So just a question, are you assuming that the house was on an island in the middle of that lake? Cause it obviously wasn't considering the truck and the fact that they drove away in said truck meaning that there was another way across that didn't involve walking on a frozen lake. And Arvo had lived in that house so he knew about this. When the others are discussing another way around, he absolutely insisted they go across the lake. Then after everything goes to hell, he gives Clementine a look that lends more proof that he was hoping to kill her or that he was glad her friend was dead. I think he really planned for a happy accident to happen there and as you said, he was more familiar with the area so he had confidence he could cross it. And honestly, would you rather be the person in the front or the back of the line? By the time everyone else has trampled on that ice, it's gonna be a lot less sturdy.
I understand why he was mad.
I don't understand why he would shoot a defenceless 11 year old girl. Please give me some good, correct reasons.
The group had two cripples and were being pursued by zombies, and it was Kenny himself who agreed with the idea to walk across the lake. Arvo also fearlessly walked across the lake to demonstrate it was possible, when he could have just allowed the others to take that risk and die first. We can't forget that.
The complication is that he was under a lot of stress caused by Kenny's abuse of him, and he made a regrettable, irrational decision. Just like Rebecca was first willing to let Clem die out of paranoia, and how Carlos proposed a plan where he knew full well that Clem would have gotten sicker either way, and how Nick almost blew off Clem's face because he'd had bad experiences with people getting bitten before...
We eventually spent enough time with the cabin group when they'd calmed down to know that they weren't inherently bad people. Arvo never had that chance.
Maybe to get more sympathy? I know I didnt rob him cuz when he said "sick sister" I imagined a little kid.
Also, the Russian translation apparently says that they were yelling at us to give back their medicine, even if we didnt take it, so obviously he was hiding it from them and then blamed it on us when they noticed it was missing. Considering he was the only one who spoke English it was a perfect plan since we couldnt tell them the truth. And it makes NO SENSE to leave something as valuable as medical supplies unattended just cuz you dont want to carry an extra bag.
does anyone know what avro said in russian just before he shot clementine i'd like to know what he said
Arvo has plenty of chances. Kenny beat him because he defied him. If he didn't run off then Kenny wouldn't have beaten him, it highly didn't help that he said 'F*** you' to Kenny, TWICE! What did he do when he shot her, he ran off, he gave death glares when she was freezing because of hypothermia! Arvo just wasn't a good guy, go ask my friend called 'The Truth'.
At this point in the apocalypse, hardly anyone can be considered a 'good guy'--it all boils down to perspective. Also, this whole thing isn't to make people think he is a good person, or to give him sympathy. It's so people understand that Arvo--like pretty much everyone else--has made shitty decisions. It's out of understanding, not pity or symapthy.