The Mike and Bonnie thing was brilliant
I see people saying it was lazy writing again, I don't agree at all. I thought it was incredibly shocking/well written, I never thought it would be them, stealing. Betrayed by people you grew to trust. Luke says that he doesn't trust Mike, and we all got so mad at Luke for that and look at what happened. I think it was fantastic. I was so sickened by Bonnie in particular as she left an 11 year old girl to bleed out, guess you weren't different Bonnie. Never could trust her. Anyone else notice how she looked really sick again like drugged out this episode? When we first met Mike remember how rude he was to Clem because the poor baby was tired. We were foolish to trust these people... And Arvo... Well let's just hope we get revenge Season 3. This is all I want to discuss for now. Arvo is so dead in my book, that little shit, I can't believe everyone turned out to be fucking lunatics.
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It was incredibly shocking because the writing was poor. There's a difference between, "oh, man, should have seen that coming!", and "what the hell? Why did that just happen? It doesn't jive at all with what's led up to this point!" Just my thoughts on it.
Well Telltale listened and TeamBike is still alive (well determinately) :P
They aren't lunatics. Bonnie was distraught over Luke. Where was she supposed to get drugs from?
I agree, I didn't see that coming at all which I enjoyed! :O
I dont see it as lazy writing. Lazy would had them all them fall in the lake then them back stabbing you
I think it was better than just killing them off in the shoot out. The reality is the people you can trust is so very few. We hadn't been betrayed like that before. And imo there was something off about Mike. They wanted to leave Kenny, if Kenny saw what they did to Clem he would of killed them all, probably mutilated Arvo. They had to get out of there. Idk it made sense to me
I'm not saying she was on drugs, I'm just saying I think they were foreshadowing her bailing on Clem as drugs make people do bad things. Trying to make her ugly almost. She was sure, that doesn't justify leaving an 11 year old child to die RIGHT after you say you feel guilty and feel like you havent redeemed yourself
cute lol
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH LUKES FACE OMG
That scene was horribly written, and was clearly meant to force the player into the Kenny/Jane dilemma. Mike and Bonnie were completely out of character. In Episode 3, Mike was literally the only adult who didn't want Clem to do everything because she's a kid. Bonnie was willing to risk her life by firing her gun in the middle of a herd to protect Clem and Sarah. She had that motherly vibe around the campfire, chiding Luke and Mike for talking about sex around Clem, and now she suddenly offers her a cigar? What?
Can't say I'm that surprised, Nick Brenon was the one who transformed Rebecca from a bitch to perfectly nice, and Carlos from untrusting to trusting with no reason or development.
To be fair, Kenny would've murdered her if she stuck around, no question.
Luke just died. Bonnie didn't give a shit at that point so she offered Clem a cigarette. I fail to see how that's out of character.
Rebecca just died. Where's Clem's cigar?
And I wouldn't say that letting Clem take a tiny sip of alcohol would be comparable to giving her a cigar.
Double post. Screw Mike.
Rebecca was pregnant, she was moody.
Carlos was glad Clementine was in the cabin and prevented Carver finding and taking Sarah.
Bonnie was stressed out of the situation with Kenny going nuts and Luke, the guy she possibly loved dying. (Pretty sure she didn't love Rebecca)
Mike was the only one out of character, I don't know why he would leave Clem without any supplies. You can say he'd leave AJ since you can see he doesn't want to have anything to do with him and probably doesn't believe he'll make it anyway.
EDIT: To be fair, we didn't know much about him and him trying to be useful and nice to the group could have been just for his own safety. I mean we really didn't know his character THAT much, but they made him look very good in episode 4... he even cared about Arvo a lot, but that also could have been just so he can have another excuse to justify the thing he'll do to Clem and the baby.
Bonnie obviously cared for Luke a lot more than Rebecca, and it's even hinted at that they were in a relationship beforehand. The situation at the campfire was very warm and people were in a good mood and thinking rationally, so in the moment Bonnie's motherly instincts showed face. When Bonnie offers Clem a cigarette, however, it's dark and cold... Luke had died a painful death despite her best efforts. She was in a shitty mood and frankly it's understandable that she wasn't concerned about Clementine smoking.
Rebecca also seems to completely forget about the time Clem tries to blackmail her. I'm sure pregnancy doesn't cause short-term memory loss.
Carlos was remarkably willing to trust Clem no matter what she did in the previous episode, even before Carver showed up.
Fair enough about Bonnie, but that doesn't explain why she tried to leave the girl that she repeatedly tried to bond with and risked her life to protect in the herd. She can even outright tell Clem that she liked her ever since meeting her at the lodge. Her behavior during the theft didn't make any sense.
And I agree with you about Mike. That's why the theft scene is badly written. He was out of character.
I admit it was a nice surprise that they all survived, although that calls the aim of the Russians into serious question. Found it kind of odd that Mike seemed pretty good even though he was yelling that he got hit. Maybe just a graze or something...
My problem was the way they went about it would have doomed Clem, AJ, and Jane too for no reason, when their beef was with Kenny. Maybe if they took one bag but left the other along with the baby formula, I'd go a little easier on them. Hell, I certainly have no qualms with them wanting to leave Kenny. But they were painted to be so uncaring about those who weren't in on their plan that it just didn't make sense to me.
I agree OP, it took me completely by surprise and I like this kind of "coup de théâtre" (sorry, don't know the english equivalent).
I used to find Mike and Bonnie uninteresting characters, but their betrayal made them so much more interesting. Of course I immediately damned them to hell and wish them a horrible death at the hands of walkers, but this way I will remember them as relevant to the story.
Fair enough. The way she and Mike acted during the theft was still out of character considering everything else.
Plus to be fair, it had to be obvious she'll just cough it out and she won't like it. It's not like she'd become a smoker cos of that.
Yeah Kenny would have killed her, plus it fits her character since she herself confirmed she's a chicken.
I don't understand why Mike did what he did, but I do think that whole scene was effective. It shocked me and made me feel incredibly betrayed... It invoked some great emotions. Mike up to this point was far too perfect, and I like how his true colours were shown in the end.
That's the problem I have with the writing. Telltale cared too much about forcing emotions out of the player, rather than making a cohesive and believable story. The ending where you let Jane die and leave Kenny is the most glaring example of this.
I never trusted bonnie. i gave her some rope and she hung me with it. I understand why mike wanted to split because to him kenny was just a monster in the making.
It really doesn't fit her character, seeing as Bonnie never actually said she was a chicken at any point, and she was the one who was willing to fire her gun while in the middle of a herd to protect Clem and Sarah. Pretty brave if you ask me.
This really isn't the scene to get worked up about bad writing. How did noone get shot in the standoff when those russians aim shotgun and AK-47 right on the group. How did Clem/Clem and Kenny/Clem and Jane with the baby survived the 9 days trip without any food left.
Also season 1, Clem couldn't possibly drag Lee through the garage door and she couldn't open the door when the train had to stop and Lee boosted her to the window.
It's a game, plus there were a lot of issues in episodes 3 and 4, few in episode 1, so I'm satisfied with the finale a lot, it did its job and I hope Nick Breckon will have AT LEAST the final word about every episode in season 3.
It was completely unexpected and I loved it. And it also shows a running theme with Bonnie. She always seems to try and do right, or what she thinks is right, but it ends up getting people hurt or killed. Then she usually runs from the problem (or used drugs as an escape at some point) or tries to make up for it but it just doesn't go right.
And I didn't find any of it really out of character. Arvo would obviously defect, Bonnie just saw Luke die (who she clearly cared deeply for) so I don't think she wanted to stick around and Kenny kind of scared her, and Mike clearly had a problem with how Kenny and Jane did stuff.
Eh, I'd say the examples you mentioned were more plot holes than bad writing. The theft scene was bad writing since none of the characters' motivations made any sense. Why didn't Clem shoot her gun? Why did Arvo shoot if Clem surrendered her weapon? If it was revenge for her sister, why didn't he kill her? Why did Mike and Bonnie have to take absolutely everything when they left? Why didn't they take off on the truck after Clem was shot? They were right next to it and it was already running. Why run off on foot? If they wanted to escape Kenny after Clem was hurt, surely the truck would've been their best bet?
I I think it made sense for Bonnie and Alvor, but I'm still lost on why Mike would be so perfectly fine with taking all of the supplies and leaving everyone for dead.
Since when did Mike have a problem with Jane?
Yeah, this one's nice. Why people instead of saying Telltale made her do this, because she was a junkie don't ask about the reason why she became a junkie in the first place. Well said.
Arvo didn't seem like a skilled shooter, so I'd say it was a revenge, he just didn't aim right. Clem was originally supposed to have a choice to shoot Mike when he slowly approaches her in case she threatens him (it stayed in PS3 version) I completely agree that choice should have stayed there on every platform.
I agree taking absolutely everything was not cool at all. Especially since Jane mentions in the truck with Kenny that it's only one day back to Howe's where they know there are supplies.
They didn't take off in the truck since it seemed they don't have the keys and were trying to wire it.
But srsly man, just let it go. Calling anything in this episode bad writing, after those amazing conversations you could have take with the characters in the forest, around the campfire, is very uncool. How about those conversations you had in episode 3 and 4? If you can't see improvement in the writing in this episode, then noone can honestly help you and you should just let it go.
I actually really liked the finale, aside from the game forcing you to sympathize with Kenny :P
I'm just really annoyed since Mike and Bonnie were really cool characters, and the writers suddenly decided to shit on them for no reason.
Hmm maybe he didn't have a real problem with her. I thought he might have mentioned not trusting her or liking how she did something at one point, but I could be wrong.
To that, yeah I can see Kenny getting a lot of spotlight and people complaining he always ends up as the good guy. Well to that, maybe he was a good guy, not much people are willing to admit that. But I see their issue.
And the thing that the game forces you to sympathize with him. Guys wake up, Clem sympathizes with EVERY character, no matter what choice you make. She's just a caring person, the reason she's most emotional with Kenny is simple, she knew him the longest, she knew him at the time she was with LEE, but you can clearly see she cares about Mike, Bonnie, Luke, Sarah, Nick, Rebecca, all of them.
I'm pretty sure the only reason he didn't include her was because she'd definitily wouldn't leave without Clem who could possibly tell their plan to Kenny.
You have a choice not to forgive Nick. You have a choice to act like a jerk to Sarah. You have a choice not to forgive Bonnie.
I agree. It worked because it was completely unexpected, but IMO justified. A huge slap in the face to all the Mike and Bonnie fans that appeared after episode 4, though. It's honestly hilarious to see so many people go from "TEAM MIKE!" to "FUCK MIKE AND BONNIE!"