Betrayal
Why would most people shoot their old friends because they are going through a shit patch? The whole point of the walking dead is soldiering on and survival (that soldier statue says bucket loads "forsaken but never forgotten"). Especially with a baby and only one adult who knows anything about babies (killing kenny = screwing the child's chances of survival) Kenny usually does what's best and yes, sometimes screws up. but he isn't malicious, he doesn't shoot people's dicks off for a start (I know people will mention the russian, but hey don't rob people and you won't be taken prisoner).That final scene was classic Darwin though, you start a fight, make sure you can finish it, she expected clem to shoot a man she's known since pretty much the beginning of the ZA, in my world, that wasnt going to happen, kenny was the 2nd lee and proved himself to be self sacrificing many times, and I don't forget that.
Comments
For some Kenny wasn't a friend in season 1 or season 2 so its not really a betrayal.
They gave up hope on their friends and family to protect themselves. Running theme is that people either die on the inside or on the outside. People don't like Kenny because he hasn't adjusted to the fucked up zombie apocalypse and still has hope for the future and people who he wants to look out for.
Its not like that at all. You guys are getting dumber and dumber with this Kenny and Jane crap say as you wish.
He was always nice to clem. And like I said he made sacrifices in the first season. He's a good man at heart, he's just broken and people want to abandon him.
He's alive. He's adjusted. Having hope isn't a negative.
He is a good man at heart but that doesn't change the fact that he was dangerous. He wouldn't listen to Lee, Carley, and Lily because he had to have it his way. He wouldn't listen to Clem, Jane, Mike, and Bonnie because he had to have it his way. He was volatile and he was willing to risk everyone's lives rolling the dice on a place that might not even exist. He was never a team player, never had been and never would be. I didn't enjoy shooting him but he was wrong to try to kill Jane. He knew it, too, when he finally came to his senses - in every scenario.
...seriously, can we stop making threads about Jane or Kenny being better than the other? It just keeps leading to arguments...
I don't get that either, of course this is a forum and its about this kind of stuff but every 2nd thread is basically the same and everyone gets butthurt and madly defends his choice... I don't get how you can't understand both choices
He is your average joe character, he will make rash decisions under high pressure situations because he's a realistic character, he's not out for personal gain he just wants his people safe as quickly as possible. He sees an opening, he goes for it. People aren't trained to respond perfectly under duress because that isn't how life works, especially in a zombie apocalypse. He rolled the dice, like everyone else in the walking dead does over decision making, because most situations are unpredictable life or death scenarios, and he was correct! (As well as many others). His ending shows he was the ultimate team player! Take the kids and forget me, classic hero line.
Don't respond and it won't get bumped. XD
He was correct for the wrong reasons. he got lucky. They knew that Howes had food. They knew that they would have shelter. He made the decision in a complete vacuum without regard for anyone else. I know he was doing the best he could with what he had but I also saw that he was unhinged and he was increasingly becoming deaf to everyone else. I saw Jane as a realistic character, too, and I understood where she was coming from. I found her easier to relate to than Kenny. I disagreed with Kenny far more often than I agreed with him and I often paid for it with him turning his back on me. Kenny wasn't a bad guy but in the end I couldn't trust my life with him and I couldn't sit back and let him kill Jane.
I understand both sides and go with kenny because he's consistent. He won't abandon you until he's dead. Loyalty is severely lacking as we find out. Both are sensible choices in their own right, but kenny is my preference. There was no butthurt in my thread because I played it the way I wanted hahaha
I don't necessarily want your thread to die but you don't bring anything new to this discussion (at least I think I've read those arguments before) ;D
I personally choose to kill Kenny because he was killing Jane.
If Jane would've been killing Kenny, I would've killed her. Simple as that.
Both characters are far from someone I'd choose to hang out with during a zombie apocalypse (propably even without a zombie apocalypse). I can understand people choosing Kenny over Jane but I couldn't just sit there watching someone kill somebody else without a serious reason. In the end, Kenny didn't know what happened and he still decided to kill her ( or at least try
) - which is simply wrong. I'm not implying that Janes manipulating actions were right though.
Jane pulled a knife, that's a lethal weapon that Jane has proven she knows how to handle. Don't bring it out if you don't intend to use it.
I think Clementine knows what she's doing, she's managed to keep AJ alive after nine days despite the fact that Kenny said they only had one days worth of baby formula left.
That's just #ClemAloneEndingSwag
It's a Chanukah miracle!
Yeah if there would've been the option, I'd have pulled my gun out and pointed it at them so that they stfu
But as I said before, if Jane was about to kill Kenny, I would've killed her just as I killed Kenny. Well actually I would've tried to shoot without killing but whatever...
Still I did the right thing - people who let Kenny kill her didn't do the wrong thing either.
In my philosophy class, we talked about the morals/ethics of a guy called Robert Spaemann. He grew up in Germany during the 2nd WW and wondered about doing the right decision in very compliacted situations - like the following : Someone points a gun at 5 children and says if you won't kill one of them, he will kill all of them (Its not exactly the situation he was describing but it was something like this) - Is there a right or wrong decision ?
His answer is that it is not your fault if you do nothing because someone tries to force your decision and in the end, the "fault" would always be rooted at the guy pointing the gun.
I don't think its morally wrong to let Kenny kill Jane because it is a situation forced by both of them.
Jane pulled the knife - intention to kill was just as much there as it was for Kenny.
Still I don't know in which way I have betrayed Kenny. I tried to stop the fight, was unable to because I am in a little girls body. The only way to stop the fight was to shoot - or let someone get killed for no reason at all other than personal discrepancy.
If Jane would've killed Kenny is up for discussion and she certainly would have killed him but in this situation, it was Kenny killing Jane which was unrightful - so I stopped it.
I missed that. That ridiculous, that kid should be dead then. Forget the cold and malnutrition, the disease would be the first thing. Plot convinience.
Kenny was never my friend and he wasn't nice to Clem. He didn't even want to save Clem in my season 1 because his ego got in the way.
I wish Telltale would have given me the choice to leave Kenny as a soon as he showed up, or at least tell him to fuck off.
When asked which child do you kill? You swing for the askers face. Doing nothing in a situation like that is as bad as holding the gun, you are enabling that action by remaining silent. I let kenny stab her because when you wind someone up like that you deal with the consequences. Clem tried to stop the fight by standing inbetween them, but Jane wanted more, so after that, fine. You reap what you sow. Betrayal was in not having faith in your friends ability to carry you. Jane tests your bond with kenny, do you see his flaws and accept them, or do you go with this new "fuck em all" attitude? You stick with family is my point, something Jane doesn't grasp the concept of, no matter the shit, you always pull each other out.
Only Bondye could have done it!
I'm tired of arguing since you turn it your way
How did Jane wanted more ? Yes she was involved in the fight but Kenny shoved Clem away too.
So I can say Kenny wanted more too and its his own fault ending up dead ?
Btw, Jane saved Kennys life in the shootout - did you make a thread about Kenny betraying Jane by killing his life safer ?
You are very biased towards Kenny. Thats it.
Additionally, no person who actually thought about ethics would ever say "Doing nothing in a situation like that is as bad as holding the gun". Sorry but this is ridiculous.
I liked Kenny right till the end. But I shot him, He tried to kil Jane over an accident. Jane lied so I left her. Both of them cared for Clem, But both of them had issues and I feel better off without either of them. Though the Wellington ending is the best, Me or you didn't have a clue what would happen. Looking away seemed wrong.
Turn it my way? Yes it's called an opposing opinion, its how arguments work. Jane wanted to work kenny into a rage, she knew that kenny would lash out, she was kicking a dog while it was down. Ken pushed her out of the way because they were going to clash, Jane pushes clem when she physically puts herself in the firing line, not before the actual fight, she could have stepped back then and said the baby is fine, calm it down, but no she shoves clem and goes for Kenny's eye, she was hungry to continue the fight. And like I said before pulling a knife out on a person you think is mentally unstable AND has almost nothing to lose is stupid. Then putting it away making yourself an open target...well who is the REAL idiot here. Wether you like it or not Jane took a gamble with kenny and she loses (except if clem steps in) and even then she either turns a child into a murderer (of her old accomplice, I'm not saying friend)) or dies from a fight she wanted. Jane goes off the tracks towards the end, her actions make little sense, apart from self gratification because she feels lonely that she left her sister all those years ago. Oh yeah leaving a new born in a frozen car is also incredibly stupid. And you dont get brownie points for doing the right thing. Jane even says so, she felt bad for killing him (russian guy), but she had to do it.
That whole German thing was off topic and unnecessary, it's not ww2 nazi occupied Germany, its North America with zombies.
Dude stop saying it was the wrong descision man. I hate people who come with "HOW COULD YOU SHOOT KENNY?! YOU ARE SO STUPID!"
Why? because Kenny's mind is too far gone we are completely justified to put him down,will you stay with Lilly when she's not only kill Doug/Carley,but also still have the urges to kill your beloved Kenny? The essence of Walking Dead is survival,if you gone too soft just because of fanatical "loyalty" then you're simply endanger the lives of everyone and yourself,I personally think Jane's story about how her former group lost 4 people just to save 1 person that turned out to be bitten is a prove that blind "loyalty" is very stupid.
Some people just love to feel superior over others,just like Kenny himself.
Well imo it wasn't. I used an example and an expert opinion to argue why I don't think people who let Kenny kill Jane did the morally wrong decision - because the situation was forced by both people and you are not morally obligated to choose between two lives in that situation.
I also like trading facts or objective opinions by interpreting facts.
I never said you were an idiot. If you want you can interprete it that way but I won't confirm that.
Your statement regarding the Spaemann-example was idiotic - not you.
Since you said Jane had it coming for "wind[ing] someone up like that you deal with the consequences" - would you let Jane kill Kenny because he was an aggressor as well ?
And btw, are we talking about doing the "right" thing or are we talking emotionally based subjective opinions ? Like :"I like Kenny and hate Jane, so I kill Jane and feel right about it" That's certainly true.
Additionally, I never said Janes action were right, I said they were wrong. So were Kennys.
hey man thats your opinion
, but i just felt that if i were there in real life, i wouldn't let an (arguably) okay person be brutally murdered, even if it meant i would have to kill one of my oldest friends, I'm not saying that what Jane did was right, it was a phsyco move, and thats why i left without her. and in my mind it was the right thing to do, shooting Kenny stopped him from becoming a degenerate murder, i know he killed Larry, but it was to protect folks he cared about, this was just revenge, and yes i know he killed Carver out off revenge, but that guy was a 100% nutcase who deserved to die, Jane is/was a okay person, who cared/cares maybe a bit too much about survival, and a bit to little about humanity. And just so you know it, Kenny even tells you it was the right choice to shoot him, right before he dies, *goes to sob in corner
PS: thanks for reading, and this is just my opinion, so please don't feel offended
It's off topic. My opinion is as valid as yours. Keep it walking dead, not nazi germany.
Who the hell are you quoting? Because no one here is calling anyone stupid xD and I never mentioned a wrong or right decision. I just wondered why people would kill someone they know over someone they barely know.
scroll a bit down and read my comment, then you will maybe understand a bit more
He's so far gone he has humanity's best interests in mind, the baby? Nah he went into the frenzy because he thought Jane threw away the next generation, humanity's only beacon of hope. my opinion of kenny remained the same throughout season 1, he's a bit of a dick, but he knows how to get things done. Everyone is quick to criticise his plans, but no one ever offered alternatives that would be viable. It's always easy to blame the guy that does the dirt work for you. Losing 4 members of the group for 1 person was pretty stupid, but he could have been a doctor or a mechanic, so their leader may have had to make the risky decision. Clem states she wouldn't have gotten this far if it wasnt for trusting others, so loyalty isnt always a negative.
If I was there in real life, I would have told everyone about the lights i saw from Walters mountain lodge as soon as possible and leave, not conveniently forget that people are chasing us. Then no one would have been captured and we would have all been disappointed when we reached Wellington, cold and pissed, but together....probably.
I never would have left the gun on the counter and Omid would probably still be alive. I even tried to pick it up during my first playthrough. I knew it was going to be used against me somehow when I couldn't pick it up.
So do you think it's humane to bully & beating a tied up prisoner? not really,he just went frenzy because he thought Jane killed his replacement of Duck,Kenny wouldn't think that far.People criticize his plan & obviously have another alternative,but he just wouldn't listen to it,definitely not a leader that will be respected,it's also because most of his "dirt work" are very narrowminded and not well thought,that's how Kenny has been.He could've but he's not,Jane implied he was quite irrelevant to the group.Exactly,that's why Jane returned to save Clem & the others,I never said loyalty is a bad thing,I said it has its limit,and with Kenny he already crossed it when he tried to kill Jane.
I know a lot of people say that (kenny) brutally murdering someone wasnt right but i have to say that jane has made mistakes not kenny.First of all jane lied to them about killing the baby thus questioning if she could be trusted.Second of all Kenny lost a lot of people that he loved and he said that he wanted to treat that baby like his own.And im asking how could u feel if your child/parent was killed. I bet you the world u wouldnt just forgive the killer and say ok let get on with our lifes.Then the only reason jane did this was to prove a point.Just beacause she wanted to prove she was right she put the babys life and danger and she/kenny would die.Then as they were fighting at any time during the fight she could have said that the baby was alive and kenny would have stopped.But she didnt why?And she called kenny crazy but she wasnt normal either she didnt care about anyone but herself and clem since her sister died.I personaly let kenny kill her beacause she had made erors that endangered the others.Sure kenny is stubborn but in the ned he nevver mayde a desicion that could harm the others without acctually getting something.While janes plan was clearly flawed beacause even if she proved kenny was crazy what would they get huh what?Nothing just a stupid useless point.
aww come on man you know what i mean, stop being an ass
Talk about a major plothole