Kenny is the one to be blamed for Clem getting shot, not Arvo
If anyone is to be blamed about Clem getting shot is KENNY, that´s right. Arvo´s case can be comparable by those slaughters that happens from time to time in schools and colleges in USA made by low self-esteem, opressed and constantly bullied people. People who have nothing to do with their issues end up paying for it.
Kenny was being a moron bullying, insulting and beating the kid while he was actually willing to cooperate initially. Arvo could not fight back and it made him accumulate a inner hate that eventually got out of control, getting him really on edge along the recent death of his sister, so it did not take much for him to let it out at the person whom he irrationaly blames for his sisters´ death, exactly like Kenny did when Sarita died.
Kenny´s violence and unstability in this situation were spread like a disease to him, just like bullies create future bullies, making innocent people suffer the hatred caused by the others. So at least try to get in Arvo´s mind and understand what he was being through before bashing him just because he shot Clem, especially those Kenny fanboys, who should understand him, considering he lashed out on Clem on when she didn´t deserve and made Arvo do the same to her. Yeah, Kenny didn´t shot Clem, but he also was´t constantly humiliated with no means to fight back, Kenny just lost a loved one.
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They both are responsible. Also Mike is responsible for leaving the gun unattended.
For what its worth I dont like Kenny and yes hes partially to blame for not giving the kid anything, beating the shit out of him and treating him like he was his bitch.
Mike and Bonnie are to blame for letting him near a gun and even clem if she robbed or provoked the situation.
But at the end of the day HE pulled the trigger hes still got the most responsibility for what he did. You cant use feelings an excuse so no FUCK ARVO
Kenny is responsible for pushing Arvo around too much. Mike and Bonnie are to blame for letting Arvo have the rifle. And Arvo seems to blame Clementine cuz she "killed" his sister(most likely he didn't realize Natasha turned into a walker that moment. Plus Clem mighta shot Natasha in the chest off screen for all we know.). And lastly Arvo is to blame for shooting Clementine.
...Pretty sure we still blame school shooters for being school shooters.
No, blaming Kenny for Arvo shooting Clem is the same as Kenny blaming Arvo for Luke dying. They both did something bad, but what resulted from it was completely outside their control and couldn't have been predicted from their actions. The way Kenny treated Arvo was monstrous. I blame him for that. But Arvo shooting Clem is another matter entirely and one whose blame I place squarely on the shooter.
I don't really know about that, my Clem was nice to Arvo throughout the whole episode. She defended him against Kenny on every occasions, she didn't steal the pills from him back in episode 4 and she sympathized with him. If he wanted to shoot someone, he should have shot Kenny because it was between them and Clem didn't have nothing to do with it.
He shoots you even if you give the gun to Mike. I think that he hated Clem from the start and it became worse when she had to shoot his sister, the look he gave her at that moment was scary and he kept giving her that look during the whole episode. Plus, who shoots a kid ? No matter how you feel or what you've been through, you don't shoot a kid like that, it tells us a lot about what kind of person he is.
This, too often you hear news outlets trying to defend shooters by blaming bullying and other influences such as TV or video games, when it usually comes from some sort of mental illness that they can't get treated for because America has no fucking healthcare, the fact that guns are fucking everywhere, and the fact that they pulled the trigger.
I wanted to kill Arvo on the observation deck, after the shootout, after crossing ice, and while he was trying to steal the car. I was just not given the option.
I understand that you are friends with Arvo but man! Wake the FUCK UP! Kid's been through a lot, lot his sister and group and is constantly humiliated but still, THAT IS NOT AN EXCUSE! And no, Kenny hasn't just lost a loved one, Kenny has lost 7 people at least that he cared about A LOT! So stop criticizing Kennyfanboys 'cause in this matter YOU ARE WRONG!!
This, too often you hear news outlets trying to defend shooters by blaming bullying and other influences such as TV or video games, when it usually comes from some sort of mental illness that they can't get treated for because America has no fucking healthcare, the fact that guns are fucking everywhere, and the fact that they pulled the trigger.
The most important reason why Arvo shot Clem was not Kenny's treatment. Arvo thinks Clem killed his sister or at least he thinks it's Clem's fault. The moment Clem killed his zombified sister and when he looked at her like that I knew he is going to get revenge. He wanted to kill Clem , not just injure her.
i always blame the perpetrator, this indirect blaming thing that keeps happening is stupid
Lol I don't get what's so monstrous about what Kenny did to Arvo, sure he beat him up, that's not the end of the world right? Can't take a hit in the ZA when you're an almost adult dude, you don't have much chance of survival tbh... It's not like he's a child. And Arvo was the one to pull the trigger, no one else... If anyone has any responsibility other than Arvo, it's Mike and Bonnie, if they hadn't stabbed us in the back, none of this would've happened cause Arvo wouldn't have had the opportunity to shoot us.
I'm not even surprised, there are some wackos to say Kenny basically killed Carley.
When you have much hatred and stress accumulated you just don´t care who you aim for, you have no control of it and just want to let it out. I said it already, how many times you got pissed for something that happened at work/school/college and arrived really stressed at your home and was agressive towards your loved family, who had nothing to do with the bad incident that happened?
That´s funny, most people see Clem as an adult, basing themselves at the lesson that Chuck gave to Lee, at the apocalypse situation that demands this for their survival. But when it is convenient, they see Clem as an fragile kid who shouldn´t be opressed or harmed by any means (Carver/Troy slapped a kid! Wow they are cowards, they are monsters, they must die a painful death). This is just hypocrite as the feminism bullshit we see nowadays: when is convenient for their rights and roles they are a adult/man or a kid/woman.
So what? You don´t know Arvo or what he´s been through before, and besides, the family that Kenny lost(excluding Sarita)was quite some time ago, so time would have healed most of Kenny´s pain about those long time deaths, but Arvo´s loss was really recent.. You just can´t put yourself in his situation and feel his mind to understand him, i wonder what would you if you were him.
It's obvious that Arvo blames Clem for killing his sister. That's why he shot her, not because of Kenny beating him. Plus, it's not fair to blame one person for the actions of another. It was Arvo's choice, and his alone.
This.
Lots of people are responsible, Kenny included. But at the end of the day it's still mainly Arvo's fault.
Kenny's the second biggest contributing factor though, in my opinion. Like, if he hadn't abused Arvo repeatedly I doubt he'd have shot clem.
Nope, it´s actually Clem´s fault for being nosy and going outside to see what was going on, otherwise this would never happened. Seriously...
Arvo pulled the trigger even when Clementine drops the gun.
"Kenny is to blame".
Damn the logic over here sure makes sense.
Are you fucking out of your mind? I can't believe in how much pain was Arvo, he was still trying to deal with Natasha's death. But do you really think that whenever someone dies, a few months later you will just not care about it anymore?! I mean, I don't know if you've lost anyone, but let me tell you, I wasn't alive when my grandfather died and still I feel really sad whenever I think of him! So do you really think that Kenny's pain is almost healed?! It will never heal, I can assure you. Yes, life goes on, but you never stop thinking about it, specially if that death envolved a suicide of your wife and the death of a son. Do you know what that is? I once met a woman that had lost her brother and her husband, but the one death she just could not forget was when she lost her son. She says it's such a pain that you wake up EVERY SINGLE MORNING sad and depressed for that. Besides, Arvo knows that Clementine had to shoot his zambie sister and he still blames her instead of blaming himself. HE IS THE REASSON WHY SHE GOT KILLED. If he had moved on after #myclementine gave him back the supplies, he wouldn't have dragged his friends and family to a trap, causing their death.
Wow, did you just randomly start bitching about feminism? Aww, poor little man-baby probably had his feelings hurt by some mean lady and now uses every opportunity to cry about it.
Anyway, if he had no control over his actions then why didn't he attack/shoot Mike and Bonnie? Why did he wait and shoot a little girl, especially one who tried to help him and was letting them go? And yeah, she is a little girl. Just because people think she is mature and acts like an adult and can defend herself doesnt mean that its ok for people to hit or shoot an 11 year old kid. I cant believe you are upset about people thinking that. Seriously dude, whats wrong with you?
Let me guess, you are one of those creepy assholes who says "does that mean I can hit you now" every time a woman mentions equal treatment.
Well, OP seems to think that if you get shot its your fault for getting in the way of the bullet and that if a kid acts like an adult its suddenly ok for us to hit them, so I wouldn't be holding my breath looking for a logical discussion.
Arvo's POV of Clem
Credit goes to Pride
Didn´t even need to post in my topic you piece of shit
No idiot, Kenny got him on edge, enraged him.
There is no excuse for Arvo to have shot Clem. That was all on him.
Even so, I can't deny that Arvo would likely have been in a less murderous mindset had Kenny not broken him.
By your logic, Carver's to blame for everything, if he didn't go to the cabin, none of this would happen.
Nobody wants to take responsibility for their own actions in today's society. Tons of people were bullied and they don't shoot someone because of it.
Justifying shooting a little girl...
Arvo is innocent? Right, did you forget that he tried to Rob Clementine's Group? He was the reason Luke got shot in the Leg. Innocent...
TellTale are the true monsters for not allowing us to kill Mike, Arvo and Bonnie in the gruesomest of deaths.
(Wait, gruesomest is actually recognized in Chrome's dictionary?)
Holy shit, really? Carley? What's next? Kenny started the Zombie Apocalypse and the Great Depression?
Shots fired. This is gonna be guuuuuuuuud (I think you nailed it, shibbymary).
Who are you to know my real life experiences? To me you are just a random trash from the internet who think that can judge people´s lives by one post, i pity you.
Mike and Bonnie were being sympathetic and helping Arvo, they never did anything to harm him you dumbass, however he blames Clem for his sisters´ death(irrationaly, just like the scum Kenny blamed Clem for Sarita´s death), and that was reason enough to shooting her, got it? Even if your Clem defended him whenever she could it didn´t make up for the loss of his sister to him.
You are an idiot for getting so concerned about "respecting" women and kids when we are discussing events in an apocalypse situation, with so much messed up stuff and decayed moral values. All characters barely give a shit about those things compared to nowadays. Things there are very different and it´s impressive how you still didn´t realize that.
And yes, i take "equal treatment" literally, meaning all aspects including bad parts of it too, not just the good ones.
All im hearing from you is "wah wah, I think its ok for people to hit children and I blame feminism for my problems".
What does "respect" have to do with anything? We are talking about how its not ok for a grown man to hit a child, nor for a teenager to shoot a little girl. Those are two veeeery different hings. And why in the world you think the apocalypse would suddenly make it ok to hit kids? I'm concerned about you and your morals.
Besides, Mike and Bonnie were involved in the gunfight that got his sister killed. If he is so irrational from grief, or whatever other reason you want to give that would make shooting an unarmed 11 year old girl ok, then why doesnt he blame them as well? Mikes bullet could have been the one to hit his sister. If he is so irrational that he is going to blame Clem for killing his zombie sister then why doesnt he blame Mike and Bonnie for not laying down their weapons and avoiding the fight in the first place? Or, why didnt he try to kill Mike and Bonnie so that he could escape and kill Clementine? Maybe cuz he knew that was a bad idea? Hmm. That doesnt sound like an irrational, grief stricken mind to me.
Kenny definitely largely contributed to the situation. Arvo was the one who pulled the trigger.
No, this is Arvo's fault. My Clementine told Kenny to stop teasing and punching him yet he shoots me? He didn't understand what Mike and Clementine was saying and I don't think he wanted her with them so he just shot her.
If you say "KENNY! JANE! HELP!" I'm sure he would still shoot, no matter how nice Kenny or Clem were.
Haha, poor OP. I bet hes cursing the day feminism allowed me to get out of the kitchen and point out how crazy his "logic" is.
Jane is responsible for not killing Arvo when she had him at gunpoint. No gunfight with Russians, no deadly frozen lake trap, no shooting at Clementine, and a cure for zombie virus would have been found within a few hours.
Jane is responsible for not killing Arvo when she had him at gunpoint. No gunfight with Russians, no deadly frozen lake trap, no shooting at Clementine, and a cure for zombie virus would have been found within a few hours.
Nice perspective. I had not began to analyze the episode yet being that I'm still going through the shock phase.