Another absolutely pointless thread... Great.
My advice is to leave for a while. Get some fresh perspective and come back with some actua… morel topics. Not whatever... this is.
I'm so tired of these threads whining and crying that Kenny's character isn't treated right because people are fed up with him getting away with every crime imaginable and people blindly supporting it. These threads are truly reaching new lows. I've seen people calling Jane a whore that deserves to burn in hell? Are you all that say this serious?
I'm seriously considering flagging this thread.
Well, I was thinking specifically of Larry and Carver, and the russian group, although I do consider those self defense. And he did try to murder Arvo. He pulled the gun on him with the intent of shooting him and tried to beat him to death at least once. Those are what I mean.
Agreed, Jane definately had good intentions at the start.
She created the scenario to protect Clem by showing her that Kenny was unstable. But once they got into that fight Jane became just as unstable as Kenny did.
It's funny, this is almost like that old saying "what came first the chicken or the egg?"
Well in fairness Jane actually puts away the knife halfway through the fight and looks like she doens't want to continue, and then Kenny att… moreacks her again.
So, I think since he carried on fighting after Jane warned him with the knife and then sheathed it to end the fight, we can't really blame her for actually using it.
Nah. At the start of the fight she did, but she never did after that. After Kenny pins her to the wall, Jane goes into full on attack mode t… morehe rest of the way, escalating the fight into a fight to the death. She doesn't back off then, even when she herself had an opportunity to. At some point during the fight, she decided that she wanted to kill Kenny.
Honestly I think the whole point of her putting her knife away at the start of the fight was just to give Kenny more confidence in attacking her. If she truthfully intended to end the situation there, it would have been completely counter productive to her entire plan in the first place.
Agreed, Jane definately had good intentions at the start.
She created the scenario to protect Clem by showing her that Kenny was unstable… more. But once they got into that fight Jane became just as unstable as Kenny did.
It's funny, this is almost like that old saying "what came first the chicken or the egg?"
I agreed with Kenny on a lot of things but the fact is that he CROSSED THE LINE
He crossed the line because he responded violently to Jane purposely tricking him into thinking she had killed the baby? That is totally unfair. I'll admit that his rage shelved some of his reasoning ability, but that is only natural, especially considering what he knew about Jane. Jane purposely did not explain herself because she knew that would risk reasoning with Kenny. I'm sorry, but when someone loses a baby and suspects that someone murdered them, that person should be given some sort of explanation. They aren't just going to be calm. Ideally it would be great if they would be, but it just isn't realistic.
Murder is never okay, I expected BETTER from him and when he was close to killing Jane I had to put him down because he was no better than Lily or Carver at that point and I REFUSED to let him become those monsters.
But you were totally fine with Jane trying to kill him? Kenny was being violent at first, but he was not trying to kill her at all:
All he did was pin her to the wall. If he truly wanted to kill her, he would have done it right there. It would have been easy. After he gets punched down, Jane goes on full assault mode, draws her knife, and tries to kill him.
His actions were nothing like Carver or Lily. He thought someone had murdered his baby (he was essentially the baby's guardian and clearly cared for it very much), and he was driven to rage because of it. Even then he wasn't trying to kill anyone up until his own life became threatened.
I agreed with Kenny on a lot of things but the fact is that he CROSSED THE LINE and I wasn't going to let him finish crossing it. Murder is … morenever okay, I expected BETTER from him and when he was close to killing Jane I had to put him down because he was no better than Lily or Carver at that point and I REFUSED to let him become those monsters.
It is disgusting that there are those that are trying to make murder out to be okay because they loooooove Kenny.
If they loved Kenny than they would stop him from becoming the monster that he hates.
At least Jane's instability is temporary and understandable by most people who are attacking after trying to sheathe their weapon.
Kenny's instability has been a permanent theme throughout the entire game.
Well then they don't really relate to what you think he was doing to Jane, right?
And he did try to murder Arvo. He pulled the gun on him with the intent of shooting him
But considering he never shot him how do we know whether he actually would have done it or not? Arvo also was not just some innocent guy or anything. Killing him would probably be wrong from a moral sense, but he was definitely an enemy to the group. Certainly not the same thing as trying to kill a group member.
and tried to beat him to death at least once.
That's like saying Lee tried to beat Andy to death back in Episode Two of Season One..
How do you figure Kenny tried to beat him to death? There is a difference between beating someone up and trying to kill them. And again, it isn't the same thing as turning on a member of the group.
Well, I was thinking specifically of Larry and Carver, and the russian group, although I do consider those self defense. And he did try to m… moreurder Arvo. He pulled the gun on him with the intent of shooting him and tried to beat him to death at least once. Those are what I mean.
Saying she puts away her knife in order to make Kenny attack her doesn't make sense...you're being far too cynical of anyone who isn't Kenny..
But by us now knowing her plan, don't you think ending the altercation right there would have been counter productive to what she was trying to accomplish? If she just calmed everything down right there and admitted that the baby was back in the truck she didn't really accomplish much. Certainly not enough to convince Clem I would think, considering her actions of manipulation wouldn't really equal out Kenny taking a swing at her and accusing her of murder. Plus we need to consider that if she truly wanted the altercation to end there, she would have just told Kenny about the baby being alive even after he pinned her to the wall (or after she punched him down, whenever really).
If I was her, I'd sure as hell defend myself after trying to end it.
Even after Kenny retreated away from the situation after getting slashed? That would have been the perfect time for her to drop the act and explain that the whole situation was just a big test, in which he failed. She seemed more intent on killing him though. Despite the fact that he was retreating backwards.
Of course she does that.
She PUTS AWAY her weapon, and Kenny continues to attack her.
Saying she puts away her knife in order to make … moreKenny attack her doesn't make sense...you're being far too cynical of anyone who isn't Kenny..
If I was her, I'd sure as hell defend myself after trying to end it.
Yeah, Kenny pretty much lost his sanity as of S1 Ep3 but I can't get over the fact that Jane created this surreal life drama thinking she could control it. Shoot Kenny, leave Jane, nobody plays my Clem off like that.
Btw - Flog61, kudos for being able to carry out a debate and not have it turn into a pissing match.
At least Jane's instability is temporary and understandable by most people who are attacking after trying to sheathe their weapon.
Kenny's instability has been a permanent theme throughout the entire game.
Dude have you SEEN the thread that said 'if you shoot Kenny Lee hates you'? It got ONE HUNDRED LIKES. They CLEARLY ARE here and they CLEARLY ARE VOCAL. I think there are as many people who hate Kenny no matter what as who like him no matter what. Those things are just as bad as each other.
Detailed on this in our PM.
Being disappointed that even more people than already are are agreeing with you is silly.
But didn't only like.. 20-30 some percent of people end up taking Kenny's side in the end?
Dude have you SEEN the thread that said 'if you shoot Kenny Lee hates you'? It got ONE HUNDRED LIKES.
They CLEARLY ARE here and they CLEA… moreRLY ARE VOCAL.
I think there are as many people who hate Kenny no matter what as who like him no matter what. Those things are just as bad as each other.
Being disappointed that even more people than already are are agreeing with you is silly.
Dude have you SEEN the thread that said 'if you shoot Kenny Lee hates you'? It got ONE HUNDRED LIKES.
They CLEARLY ARE here and they CLEA… moreRLY ARE VOCAL.
I think there are as many people who hate Kenny no matter what as who like him no matter what. Those things are just as bad as each other.
Being disappointed that even more people than already are are agreeing with you is silly.
Dude have you SEEN the thread that said 'if you shoot Kenny Lee hates you'? It got ONE HUNDRED LIKES.
They CLEARLY ARE here and they CLEA… moreRLY ARE VOCAL.
I think there are as many people who hate Kenny no matter what as who like him no matter what. Those things are just as bad as each other.
Being disappointed that even more people than already are are agreeing with you is silly.
Ugh must we keep getting each other such hate and names like Kenny-hater, Jane-hater or Luke-hater? So much for having an unbiased opinion when people think your on one side when your on neither.
I remember that before 400 Days (or maybe it was earlier?), this forum was generally more neutral towards Kenny. People seemed to have a more balanced view of him, with less hardcore fans and hardcore haters. Things were better back then. Or maybe it's just nostalgia.
47.2% are with Jane, it's just that 7/9 of them took the family in....because why the hell not take the family in O_O(knew it was the right choice when Patricia hugged Jane
funny, by the time i finished the game, "jane and the family" was under 20%, those things change all the time
I don't believe I was trying to compare other group members that he killed, simply other people that he killed, and if you can't see that Kenny would have killed Arvo if the others hadn't either stepped in his way or literally pulled him off him, I don't know what to tell you.
although I do consider those self defense.
Well then they don't really relate to what you think he was doing to Jane, right?
A… morend he did try to murder Arvo. He pulled the gun on him with the intent of shooting him
But considering he never shot him how do we know whether he actually would have done it or not? Arvo also was not just some innocent guy or anything. Killing him would probably be wrong from a moral sense, but he was definitely an enemy to the group. Certainly not the same thing as trying to kill a group member.
and tried to beat him to death at least once.
That's like saying Lee tried to beat Andy to death back in Episode Two of Season One..
How do you figure Kenny tried to beat him to death? There is a difference between beating someone up and trying to kill them. And again, it isn't the same thing as turning on a member of the group.
The Kenny endings would have been so out of character for my Clem.
And Jane didn't even need to "trick" me. Kenny was never my friend and I did not want to be around him. I hated how everybody in the game kept saying Kenny was my friend. I wish I had the option to say he was not.
I agree with Belan's post. Jane even admits later if you do kill Kenny that "She wanted him out of the way so that she and Clem could be like sisters again." Definitely not a direct quote but it was similar to this.
I agreed with Kenny on a lot of things but the fact is that he CROSSED THE LINE
He crossed the line because he responded violently t… moreo Jane purposely tricking him into thinking she had killed the baby? That is totally unfair. I'll admit that his rage shelved some of his reasoning ability, but that is only natural, especially considering what he knew about Jane. Jane purposely did not explain herself because she knew that would risk reasoning with Kenny. I'm sorry, but when someone loses a baby and suspects that someone murdered them, that person should be given some sort of explanation. They aren't just going to be calm. Ideally it would be great if they would be, but it just isn't realistic.
Murder is never okay, I expected BETTER from him and when he was close to killing Jane I had to put him down because he was no better than Lily or Carver at that point and I REFUSED to let him become those monsters.
But you were tota… [view original content]
I don't believe I was trying to compare other group members that he killed, simply other people that he killed
Seems like an odd thing to bring up if the actions weren't murderous. I mean.. that was the entire point of what the original guy was talking about, right? I guess I'm not sure why you brought up the fact that he has had to kill other people before.
if you can't see that Kenny would have killed Arvo if the others hadn't either stepped in his way or literally pulled him off him, I don't know what to tell you.
There is no indication that Kenny would have beaten him to death, that is pure speculation on your part. Again, its like saying Lee was trying to beat Andy to death back in Season One. Beating someone up does not equal trying to kill them.
I don't believe I was trying to compare other group members that he killed, simply other people that he killed, and if you can't see that Ke… morenny would have killed Arvo if the others hadn't either stepped in his way or literally pulled him off him, I don't know what to tell you.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of people that do cling to one extreme end of the spectrum. There are people who love Kenny basically no matter what he does, and there are people who hate Kenny basically no matter what he does.
Ugh must we keep getting each other such hate and names like Kenny-hater, Jane-hater or Luke-hater? So much for having an unbiased opinion when people think your on one side when your on neither.
I agree with Belan's post. Jane even admits later if you do kill Kenny that "She wanted him out of the way so that she and Clem could be like sisters again." Definitely not a direct quote but it was similar to this.
I brought it up because it shows his tendency for violence, especially the slow brutal murder of Carver. I wasn't trying to bog it down with whether or not he killed other group members. We've seen him bludgeon two people to death and I felt that he was getting too comfortable with doing that when he kept trying to beating on Arvo. Maybe I wasn't clear about how those events linked but that was my point. He started with Larry, then escalated to Carver, then tried to beat Arvo to death.
As for the second point, Lee very well could have beaten Andy to death but he also was stopped so I'm not sure about that comparison. He did have a precedent for killing someone in a rage. But let me ask you this, do you really believe that Kenny was going to stop himself? He blamed Arvo for getting Luke killed. If the others hadnt pulled him off, would he have just said "There, I guess you've had enough" and backed off after a few hits?
I don't believe I was trying to compare other group members that he killed, simply other people that he killed
Seems like an odd thi… moreng to bring up if the actions weren't murderous. I mean.. that was the entire point of what the original guy was talking about, right? I guess I'm not sure why you brought up the fact that he has had to kill other people before.
if you can't see that Kenny would have killed Arvo if the others hadn't either stepped in his way or literally pulled him off him, I don't know what to tell you.
There is no indication that Kenny would have beaten him to death, that is pure speculation on your part. Again, its like saying Lee was trying to beat Andy to death back in Season One. Beating someone up does not equal trying to kill them.
Lee rage kills some guy pre-apocolypse because he was nailing his wife and we all love Lee. Kenny attempts to rage kill Jane post-apocolypse after he suspects her of killing a baby and people hate Kenny.
This makes no sense to me at all.
I know right and for some reason people don't seem to grasp that if you were in a Zombie Apocolypse it would make situations like this 110% harder to deal with.
Well the fact that fans of each side cannot deny is that both of these characters have done despicable things and caused arguments and hatred, however, they also followed with good intentions most of the time. I just think that good people make bad decisions sometimes.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of people that do cling to one extreme end of the spectrum. There are people who love Kenny basically no matter what he does, and there are people who hate Kenny basically no matter what he does.
Comments
It is disgusting that there are those that are trying to make murder out to be okay because they loooooove Kenny.
If they loved Kenny than they would stop him from becoming the monster that he hates.
Well, I was thinking specifically of Larry and Carver, and the russian group, although I do consider those self defense. And he did try to murder Arvo. He pulled the gun on him with the intent of shooting him and tried to beat him to death at least once. Those are what I mean.
Agreed, Jane definately had good intentions at the start.
She created the scenario to protect Clem by showing her that Kenny was unstable. But once they got into that fight Jane became just as unstable as Kenny did.
It's funny, this is almost like that old saying "what came first the chicken or the egg?"
Of course she does that.
She PUTS AWAY her weapon, and Kenny continues to attack her.
Saying she puts away her knife in order to make Kenny attack her doesn't make sense...you're being far too cynical of anyone who isn't Kenny..
If I was her, I'd sure as hell defend myself after trying to end it.
One would say 70% got the non canon ending huh.
At least Jane's instability is temporary and understandable by most people who are attacking after trying to sheathe their weapon.
Kenny's instability has been a permanent theme throughout the entire game.
Nope. There is no canon ending.
He crossed the line because he responded violently to Jane purposely tricking him into thinking she had killed the baby? That is totally unfair. I'll admit that his rage shelved some of his reasoning ability, but that is only natural, especially considering what he knew about Jane. Jane purposely did not explain herself because she knew that would risk reasoning with Kenny. I'm sorry, but when someone loses a baby and suspects that someone murdered them, that person should be given some sort of explanation. They aren't just going to be calm. Ideally it would be great if they would be, but it just isn't realistic.
But you were totally fine with Jane trying to kill him? Kenny was being violent at first, but he was not trying to kill her at all:
All he did was pin her to the wall. If he truly wanted to kill her, he would have done it right there. It would have been easy. After he gets punched down, Jane goes on full assault mode, draws her knife, and tries to kill him.
His actions were nothing like Carver or Lily. He thought someone had murdered his baby (he was essentially the baby's guardian and clearly cared for it very much), and he was driven to rage because of it. Even then he wasn't trying to kill anyone up until his own life became threatened.
Kenny in my playthrough is at peace now. That was the kindest thing I could do for him.
Cynicism is a bitch, Ha?
Well then they don't really relate to what you think he was doing to Jane, right?
But considering he never shot him how do we know whether he actually would have done it or not? Arvo also was not just some innocent guy or anything. Killing him would probably be wrong from a moral sense, but he was definitely an enemy to the group. Certainly not the same thing as trying to kill a group member.
That's like saying Lee tried to beat Andy to death back in Episode Two of Season One..
How do you figure Kenny tried to beat him to death? There is a difference between beating someone up and trying to kill them. And again, it isn't the same thing as turning on a member of the group.
But by us now knowing her plan, don't you think ending the altercation right there would have been counter productive to what she was trying to accomplish? If she just calmed everything down right there and admitted that the baby was back in the truck she didn't really accomplish much. Certainly not enough to convince Clem I would think, considering her actions of manipulation wouldn't really equal out Kenny taking a swing at her and accusing her of murder. Plus we need to consider that if she truly wanted the altercation to end there, she would have just told Kenny about the baby being alive even after he pinned her to the wall (or after she punched him down, whenever really).
Even after Kenny retreated away from the situation after getting slashed? That would have been the perfect time for her to drop the act and explain that the whole situation was just a big test, in which he failed. She seemed more intent on killing him though. Despite the fact that he was retreating backwards.
Yeah, Kenny pretty much lost his sanity as of S1 Ep3 but I can't get over the fact that Jane created this surreal life drama thinking she could control it. Shoot Kenny, leave Jane, nobody plays my Clem off like that.
Btw - Flog61, kudos for being able to carry out a debate and not have it turn into a pissing match.
Detailed on this in our PM.
But didn't only like.. 20-30 some percent of people end up taking Kenny's side in the end?
(Double post)
May I just ask, if you dislike Kenny as much as you seem to, why is he your profile picture?
Ugh must we keep getting each other such hate and names like Kenny-hater, Jane-hater or Luke-hater? So much for having an unbiased opinion when people think your on one side when your on neither.
I remember that before 400 Days (or maybe it was earlier?), this forum was generally more neutral towards Kenny. People seemed to have a more balanced view of him, with less hardcore fans and hardcore haters. Things were better back then. Or maybe it's just nostalgia.
TEAM JANE!!
guys you are all counting it wrong
With AJ, Jane and the family - 36.8%
Alone with AJ - 22.7%
With AJ at Wellington - 16.6%
With AJ and Kenny - 13.5%
With AJ and Jane - 10.4%
47.2% are with Jane, it's just that 7/9 of them took the family in....because why the hell not take the family in O_O(knew it was the right choice when Patricia hugged Jane
funny, by the time i finished the game, "jane and the family" was under 20%, those things change all the time
I don't believe I was trying to compare other group members that he killed, simply other people that he killed, and if you can't see that Kenny would have killed Arvo if the others hadn't either stepped in his way or literally pulled him off him, I don't know what to tell you.
Yeah, I got something wrong.
I thought 70% were with Jane.
On my first playthrough, 48.5% shot Kenny.
Who the hell would choose to go with jane :P
The Kenny endings would have been so out of character for my Clem.
And Jane didn't even need to "trick" me. Kenny was never my friend and I did not want to be around him. I hated how everybody in the game kept saying Kenny was my friend. I wish I had the option to say he was not.
I agree with Belan's post. Jane even admits later if you do kill Kenny that "She wanted him out of the way so that she and Clem could be like sisters again." Definitely not a direct quote but it was similar to this.
I like Kenny, Still shot him. He had been a great character. But I feel season 3 has to move on. Kenny is broken, The only end for him is death.
70% that killed Kenny.
I don't think so. I've seen a big amount of Kenny hater recently. But it doesn't really bother me. Everyone has their own opinion.
Seems like an odd thing to bring up if the actions weren't murderous. I mean.. that was the entire point of what the original guy was talking about, right? I guess I'm not sure why you brought up the fact that he has had to kill other people before.
There is no indication that Kenny would have beaten him to death, that is pure speculation on your part. Again, its like saying Lee was trying to beat Andy to death back in Season One. Beating someone up does not equal trying to kill them.
I like Kenny from season one loads.
I just feel the way he acts in season 2 is unacceptable.
I don't hate the man, I hate the actions (such as beating Arvo) and couldn't bear to see him commit more of them.
Unfortunately, there are a lot of people that do cling to one extreme end of the spectrum. There are people who love Kenny basically no matter what he does, and there are people who hate Kenny basically no matter what he does.
This girl right here. I wasn't going to let Clem go off alone with a baby. It seemed unwise.
Honestly I think Kenny would like Jane eventually eventhough she said those things... Some people need to get shit of their chests.
I brought it up because it shows his tendency for violence, especially the slow brutal murder of Carver. I wasn't trying to bog it down with whether or not he killed other group members. We've seen him bludgeon two people to death and I felt that he was getting too comfortable with doing that when he kept trying to beating on Arvo. Maybe I wasn't clear about how those events linked but that was my point. He started with Larry, then escalated to Carver, then tried to beat Arvo to death.
As for the second point, Lee very well could have beaten Andy to death but he also was stopped so I'm not sure about that comparison. He did have a precedent for killing someone in a rage. But let me ask you this, do you really believe that Kenny was going to stop himself? He blamed Arvo for getting Luke killed. If the others hadnt pulled him off, would he have just said "There, I guess you've had enough" and backed off after a few hits?
70% was wrong.
It's not wrong , it's right , are you even serious check your game choices and see.
Finally someone that agrees with me! Jeez, how come people forget the character traits they want so easily when it is in their best interests?!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=uiaWzLZbleo
I know right and for some reason people don't seem to grasp that if you were in a Zombie Apocolypse it would make situations like this 110% harder to deal with.
Well the fact that fans of each side cannot deny is that both of these characters have done despicable things and caused arguments and hatred, however, they also followed with good intentions most of the time. I just think that good people make bad decisions sometimes.