Ben abandons Clementine, Lee doesn't go off on him. Lee's boiling point was immediate harm to Clementine or her group not alleged or unsubstantiated harm.
Maybe so, but attacking/killing someone after an accident has already occurred isn't protecting anybody. Its just about taking your frustrat… moreions out on somebody. My main issue is not in Kenny attacking Jane. Its about Kenny attacking Jane without ever hearing her out. My Lee would have at least tryed to comprehend the situation before doing something as drastic as engaging in a fight to the death.
I have no qualms about him dieing whatsoever. Frankly, I think it was a mistake that they bought him back for S2 rather then leaving him dead in S1. I found Jane a much more interesting character anyway.
The only time (I remember in Season 2) he was a physical threat to a group member. He was a threat at other times though, like completely ignoring Clem as she was freezing to death because he was in another one of his rages beating up Arvo.
Not helping Clem out more in that situation does not constitute him being a threat. Punching an enemy of the group three times after he mouthed off after getting group members hurt/killed does not mean he is a threat to be worried about. Certainly not to the extent that he would be a personal threat to another group member.
I read it as Jane has realised she needs to take AJ too, to protect him, in which case Kenny can't know because as Jane has already said, Kenny would never let the baby go.
There is never any indication of that. Where are you getting that idea from? Even when you criticize her for the manipulation, she never says anything about this. She just said it needed to be done in order to show Kenny's true colors (a really illegitimate way to do that.. by the way). If you decided to leaver her, she says "I did this for you". She never says anything about the baby at all. Regardless, she was willing to kill another human being in order to try and prove a point. She had no right to do that.
But that isn't what happened, big difference between died and killed. Jane said there was an accident, she could have fallen over, or ran into a walker. An accident means the baby died, not necessarily that Jane killed him, but as Jane already knew (and was trying to prove to Clem) Kenny snaps instantly before she can explain (with whatever false story she'd have given).
Jane manipulated him into thinking she killed his kid. That was the entire point. Of course she couldn't just come out and say she did that, as it would have turned Clem against her in that situation. She did the next best thing. She was intentionally shady about it. She didn't even try explaining herself. Saying it was an "accident" one time doesn't just make everything go away, and she knew that. A parent who thinks someone just murdered their baby isn't going to be immediately rational, sorry. Jane would have needed to explain herself in that situation. That would have gone against the agenda though, because she wanted to fight. That was the entire point. The point wasn't to sit down and try to rationalize with Kenny. That would have been counter productive/ pointless to what she wanted to achieve.
This was the only time Kenny ever manifested himself as a direct threat to a group member
The only time (I remember in Season 2) he … morewas a physical threat to a group member. He was a threat at other times though, like completely ignoring Clem as she was freezing to death because he was in another one of his rages beating up Arvo.
At any point during the fight she could have admitted to Kenny that the baby was still alive in the truck. She wanted to fight.
I read it as Jane has realised she needs to take AJ too, to protect him, in which case Kenny can't know because as Jane has already said, Kenny would never let the baby go.
Yeah, if you manipulate him into thinking you killed his kid.
But that isn't what happened, big difference between died and killed. Jane said there was an accident, she could have fallen over, or ran into a walker. An accident means the baby died, not necessarily that Jane killed him, b… [view original content]
Well i think its all Fking BullSit because there is no real good end. And than people think it is a good game because people sometime cry about it but i was just angry when i saw all endings. Everythin begins good like jane and luke where getting closer and than luke dies (the begin of it) than half of the group leaves like for no reason and than you have to chouse to kill some1 of youre best freinds. yea you will cry because of that but still it was a good game the ending thou. The moost people would just look away but than you can leave kenny and go alloon anyway and if you go away with him it ends there. I dont like it but still good game after all
refusing to help the other members of the group just because they didn't agree with him, pretending that a bitten Duck was okay, going crazy with the whole "we need a boat" thing, getting drunk when Lee wasn't there and someone had to check on Clem, encouraging Lee to kill Ben, refusing to go with the others and look for Clem just because he didn't like Lee, shooting at Carver's men when they had taken the whole group as hostages, trying to instigate a suicide-war with Carver's men after the truck's ride, fighting with Luke (or anybody else when Luke isn't there) when the group needed to stay together, acting as he was the leader when nobody chose him as such and causing Mike and Bonnie' s decision to steal everything and leave., yelling to Jane and Clem while he was driving a car in a place filled with zombies.
I'm not going to address these (though I would disagree with you on almost all accounts), as they have nothing to do with the Jane situation. None of those are comparable to personally being a direct threat to a group member... as in none of those have anything to do with Kenny intentionally inflicting harm/violence on a member of the group. No comparison at all.
Again, your opinion.
You don't have to follow up every statement with this. Of course its my opinion. That goes without saying.
I watched the whole scene, and I had the impression that Jane didn't use all of her skills during the fight, while Kenny did.
Completely baseless argument. It doesn't matter anyway. She was trying to kill him, that is all that matters.
Oh and right then he was totally crazy, do you really think that he would have believed Jane if she said "HE'S ALIVE; JUST STOP THIS!!!
You don't know either way, so there is no argument to make. Just because you personally don't think it would have worked doesn't mean there was not merit in trying. And I mean come on.. if she told Kenny the baby was alive he would have no reason to continue fighting unless she was still trying to kill him.
As umbr44 wrote, she didn't say she killed Aj,
Because that would have been hilariously counter productive and pointless to what she was trying to achieve overall. Clem would never get on board with her if she used that excuse to make Kenny mad. It wouldn't prove anything.
it looked like an accident.
No it didn't. There was nothing to look at. All there was to go on was Jane saying it was an accident... just one time.. with no explanation or reasoning at all. Her intention was to make it look like she killed the baby in Kenny's eyes. If she wanted to rationalize and give a legitimate explanation for her actions she wouldn't have done what she did in the first place. Again, it would have been counter productive.
And I trusted Jane and knew she would't do such a thing,
You knew she wouldn't have done such a thing? How? We know she abandoned her sister. We know she wanted to abandon a defenseless Sarah. We know she wanted to abandon Kenny. So why would she not abandon a baby? She never gave us any reason to believe her at all. There wasn't really any reason to infer that she didn't do it.
I understood her plan from what she said to Clem before the fight started, it was easy to understand what was really going on if you just focused on those words.
So you understood she was willing to kick Kenny where it hurt the most in order to try and draw a reaction out of him so she could have an excuse to leave him behind? It was a terrible thing to do.
As I wrote, that wasn't the first time that I considered Kenny a danger, or that he tried to kill/get someone killed
He never intentionally tried to kill another group member before.
It's the f*cking apoclaypse, there's nothing weird if a newborn baby dies in a world filled with zombies during a blizzard.
Okay, then it should have been easy to explain what happened. Again, she couldn't do that though because it went against the agenda.
That's not a good reason to kill someone.
He only killed her because she was trying to kill him. He was fighting for his life.
And that wasn't Kenny's kid, btw.
Who cares? He took care of that baby from the moment that it was born. He helped bring him into the world, and he clearly cared very much about him. Alvin Jr. was family to him.
By doing something terrible to him to make him do something terrible in return? This was the only time Kenny ever manifested himself as a di… morerect threat to a group member, and it took heavy manipulation to pull it off.
Your opinion, I don't think so. In my playthrough of both season 1 and 2 Kenny has been dangerous in many ways: refusing to help the other members of the group just because they didn't agree with him, pretending that a bitten Duck was okay, going crazy with the whole "we need a boat" thing, getting drunk when Lee wasn't there and someone had to check on Clem, encouraging Lee to kill Ben, refusing to go with the others and look for Clem just because he didn't like Lee, shooting at Carver's men when they had taken the whole group as hostages, trying to instigate a suicide-war with Carver's men after the truck's ride, fighting with Luke (or anybody else when Luke isn't there) when the group needed to stay together, acting a… [view original content]
All I'm saying is that Jane clearly knew that Kenny wasn't emotionally stable at that time, she took advantage of that in the most manipulative way. I know it's not the best comparison, but the way I see it is, it's not unlike telling a friend who you know has an eating disorder about all the food you ate today, and how you never gain weight no matter how much you eat, and isn't that just awesome that you don't have to worry about that etc. This is very likely to cause a breakdown for the friend with the eating disorder, and you look like a heartless, insensitive, asshole because you knew this friend wasn't stable. Then lets say that you explain that you pushed the friend to their breaking point because you were trying to make a point to another friend who could be being influenced by the friend with the eating disorder. Under no circumstances, even if it's for another's benefit, is it ok to do that to a person who you know is not in the right mind. That is what Jane did to Kenny by implying that she let the baby die, when she knew how much he cared about AJ, when she knew how fragile his mindset was. Not to mention, it just plain rubs me the wrong way that Jane came up with this plan to force Clem into going with her. I'm not condoning Kenny killing Jane, but I won't say that she didn't bring it on herself either.
Didnt make it better in my opinion. Yes I agree that it was very shitty to push Kenny so far...even if i dont think that her attention was t… moreo kill Kenny. She just wanted to show clementine wha he's capable of. I cant go with Kenny even if it's hurt me. I cant let him kill or hurting othe rpeoples for accidents or everytime I or the baby is in dangour.
I'm loving the way you just called everyone who had a different choice than you "Fucking dense," and accuse them all of being bloodthirsty murderers.
Nice generalizations you got going on there.
The civil response:Yeah lemon that why 70% Killed Kenny , and bro there's no right choice all all.Lee even said in the dream , It's not like… more math it's not always the right choice.Either all endings are the right ones or none of them are.
The aggressive response:So quit your bitching and Stop saying that Your ending the right one.
Hey, you're the one who goes around every single forum, commenting every single post saying that saving Kenny was the RIGHT choice, that people should UNDERSTAND that, that Jane was INDISPUTABLY wrong and attacking people who have a different opinion, so I have every right to underline that what you write is just your opinion. I wrote what I think about the whole situation, explaining why I think that with both theories and facts, and you keep saying that your choices were the only right ones. I'm not a Kenny hater, I just did what I did because TO ME that was the best thing to do. Telltale games gave me that option because they knew that many people would have done the same thing, so stop complaining about that being "the wrong choice". Damn, I've even seen people saying that every non-kenny ending isn't canon, why is so hard for you to accept that people have different opinions about that? Of course you can write your opinion if you want, everybody can, but don't try to change the others'. It's your attitude that I don't like, not your theories,
refusing to help the other members of the group just because they didn't agree with him, pretending that a bitten Duck was okay, going crazy… more with the whole "we need a boat" thing, getting drunk when Lee wasn't there and someone had to check on Clem, encouraging Lee to kill Ben, refusing to go with the others and look for Clem just because he didn't like Lee, shooting at Carver's men when they had taken the whole group as hostages, trying to instigate a suicide-war with Carver's men after the truck's ride, fighting with Luke (or anybody else when Luke isn't there) when the group needed to stay together, acting as he was the leader when nobody chose him as such and causing Mike and Bonnie' s decision to steal everything and leave., yelling to Jane and Clem while he was driving a car in a place filled with zombies.
I'm not going to address these (though I would disagree with you on almost all accounts), as they have nothing to do with th… [view original content]
Hey, you're the one who goes around every single forum, commenting every single post saying that saving Kenny was the RIGHT choice, that people should UNDERSTAND that, that Jane was INDISPUTABLY wrong and attacking people who have a different opinion, so I have every right to underline that what you write is just your opinion. I wrote what I think about the whole situation, explaining why I think that with both theories and facts, and you keep saying that your choices were the only right ones.
Great, but you are completely stating the obvious and its pretty much pointless.
Telltale games gave me that option because they knew that many people would have done the same thing, so stop complaining about that being "the wrong choice".
I'm not complaining. Its called discussion. That is why we have the forums. You are welcome to stop debating with me at any time.
Damn, I've even seen people saying that every non-kenny ending isn't canon, why is so hard for you to accept that people have different opinions about that?
??
I accept that people have different opinions than that. I (and of course many others) wouldn't be here debating the issue with so many different people if we were all on the same page. That goes without saying.
Of course you can write your opinion if you want, everybody can, but don't try to change the others'. It's your attitude that I don't like, not your theories
You're upset because I'm trying to change your viewpoint? Welcome to the entire point of discussion.
Hey, you're the one who goes around every single forum, commenting every single post saying that saving Kenny was the RIGHT choice, that peo… moreple should UNDERSTAND that, that Jane was INDISPUTABLY wrong and attacking people who have a different opinion, so I have every right to underline that what you write is just your opinion. I wrote what I think about the whole situation, explaining why I think that with both theories and facts, and you keep saying that your choices were the only right ones. I'm not a Kenny hater, I just did what I did because TO ME that was the best thing to do. Telltale games gave me that option because they knew that many people would have done the same thing, so stop complaining about that being "the wrong choice". Damn, I've even seen people saying that every non-kenny ending isn't canon, why is so hard for you to accept that people have different opinions about that? Of course you can write your opinion if you want,… [view original content]
You are welcome to stop debating with me at any time.
Then I'm doing that now, because (as I wrote) I don't like your attitude and I don't think is possible to have a real conversation with you, when you keep saying that you're right and everyone else is wrong. Have a nice day.
Hey, you're the one who goes around every single forum, commenting every single post saying that saving Kenny was the RIGHT choice, that peo… moreple should UNDERSTAND that, that Jane was INDISPUTABLY wrong and attacking people who have a different opinion, so I have every right to underline that what you write is just your opinion. I wrote what I think about the whole situation, explaining why I think that with both theories and facts, and you keep saying that your choices were the only right ones.
Great, but you are completely stating the obvious and its pretty much pointless.
Telltale games gave me that option because they knew that many people would have done the same thing, so stop complaining about that being "the wrong choice".
I'm not complaining. Its called discussion. That is why we have the forums. You are welcome to stop debating with me at any time.
Damn, I've even seen people saying that every non-kenny end… [view original content]
Except he didn't become Carver or Lilly. Kenny didn't kill a defenseless, innocent bystander(Doug/Carley) due to his paranoia, nor did he kill people because they were weak/didn't follow his leadership. Kenny killed a woman who was actively attacking him, and purposely gave him the impression that she let a baby die/killed a baby to bring him to his breaking point. You can say that he instigated the physical fight, but she's the one who pulls a knife on him, slashes at his stomach, and then pursues him after he backs off. She even goes on to dig her fingers into his already wounded eye, I think by then she had already proved her point that Kenny was unstable, and yet she continues on. Why? because she wants to kill him. Jane was an active threat to Kenny's life, unlike Carley/Doug and Carver's followers. Jane came looking for a fight to the death, she wanted to "end it". She was playing a sick mind game from the beginning to get her way, and there is no excuse for toying with a person's emotions like she did.
It's not a trap, he was about to commit murder over, as far as you know, was an accident.
He had to be put down and if you have any respect for Kenny you would shoot him because Kenny would NEVER want to be like Lily/Carver.
You are welcome to stop debating with me at any time.
Then I'm doing that now, because (as I wrote) I don't like your attitude and I… more don't think is possible to have a real conversation with you, when you keep saying that you're right and everyone else is wrong. Have a nice day.
Oh, and murderers don't go to hell?
EDIT: Also I'm not going to even to BEGIN to touch on the problems with your statement regarding people with depression sir/madam. That's something you're going to just have to figure out on your own.
I think I remember a conversation like this in a car. In the snow. Funny that. Even though it may seem like you're both at each other's throats here, from an outsider's perspective this is giving me a lot of really cool insight into what both people in Camp Kenny and Camp Jane think. Personally I think you're both right.
Look, again, you can be as angry as you want that you and others got duped into the wrong endings, that's fine.
But the constant anger, the projecting, the excuses...I mean...it's not helpful for anyone.
How did he cause Luke's death? He had nothing against him what so ever, and he ran because of the zombies.
basically Sarah alongside Sarita's death - they never meant that to happen. Kenny didn't blame Sarah though. He just picked Arvo so he could unleash his anger upon him.
Arvo started a fight - because he wanted to confront his bully. Kenny beat him up again and again - so he stood up against the guy who hurt him again and again.
Arvo ran across the water in a attempt to escape, causing Luke to die. I liked Luke. I care nothing for Arvo, because he is a whiny path… moreetic person, who started a fight, and is lucky he is still alive. What do you think i would have done to him? I would have taken him by his metal leg brace and thrown him in the water, and tell him, you don't get to come back out unless you go get Luke.
I can understand why people killed Kenny... But the way I saw it, when Clem shot Kenny, he died thinking he failed Clem and AJ... At least if Clem stayed with Kenny there was a sense of hope created he would heal (slowly, gradually) with his new family; if she stayed in Wellington, he would still be a broken man, but one that fulfilled his duty and could finally die in peace.
You are the one who doesn't understand what was happening. I am a Kenny fan, But unlike some of the fans I could see what was happening. Kenny was out of control.
Punching an enemy of the group three times after he mouthed off after getting group members hurt/killed does not mean he is a threat...
He never once turned around to help Clem, even when she called to him and brought him back from where his mind had vanished to. It wasn't a threat aimed AT Clem, but it still makes him a threat to other people. If it was just Clem and Jane, Clem would have survived, just Clem and Kenny and Clem may have frozen to death by the time Kenny came back to his senses.
There is never any indication of that.
She says in the car that Kenny would never let them take AJ, at that point I'm not sure she was intending to take him. However when it comes down to the fight, as people keep stating she could have told Kenny the baby was still alive at any point (he may not have believed her but she could have said it.) The only logical reason not to, is because she intends to take the baby with her as well.
If she didn't want to take the baby, all she had to do was not walk Clem to the car with AJ in it, if she was cold enough to kill someone over a point she'd be cold enough to leave the baby wouldn't you say?...
Jane manipulated him into thinking she killed his kid.
How? She walks in and says "He's" whilst showing more emotion than Jane ever has...then whilst Kenny is gone she comes out of it to tell Clem to stay out of it. Then Kenny comes in, barges past Clem and accuses Jane of killing the baby to which she says she didn't and it was an accident. She never manipulates him into thinking she killed AJ.
She knew he would assume that and not listed to what she said true. But she didn't manipulate him, this is exactly what she was trying to show Clem. Kenny came straight in on the attack, he never once gave Jane a proper chance to explain. Again she knew he wouldn't, but she didn't make Kenny do anything.
The only time (I remember in Season 2) he was a physical threat to a group member. He was a threat at other times though, like completely ig… morenoring Clem as she was freezing to death because he was in another one of his rages beating up Arvo.
Not helping Clem out more in that situation does not constitute him being a threat. Punching an enemy of the group three times after he mouthed off after getting group members hurt/killed does not mean he is a threat to be worried about. Certainly not to the extent that he would be a personal threat to another group member.
I read it as Jane has realised she needs to take AJ too, to protect him, in which case Kenny can't know because as Jane has already said, Kenny would never let the baby go.
There is never any indication of that. Where are you getting that idea from? Even when you criticize her for the manipulation, she never says anything about this. She just said it needed to be d… [view original content]
Just because she always starts shit with him - doesn't mean Kenny can get away with straight up murder. Also, what exactly did she do to piss him off so much? Kill the baby? Well that's kind of hypocritical since he was killing her - he pissed her off too, such as calling her nothing. He acted as if she was a punching bag - exactly like Arvo, just so he can let lose his stress.
Maybe Kenny should take some anger management classes from his friend, Walter..
So even if she wasn't your friend, you'll still let Kenny kill her? I did the exact same choice with Larry. Larry wasn't my friend, but I tr… moreied to save him, my Clem will do what my Lee did
I tried to stop the fight, I got pushed out of the way. So at that point, i let them kill each other. Kenny won. Yes i am perfectly fine with it. I wasn't going to choose someone i knew for maybe a week, who i don't like/trust, who was a constant bitch to one of my friends (Kenny), she is always starting shit with him.
Jane was trying to kill Kenny. It got to the point that he was fighting for his life. He even says as much afterwards if he you save him. Jane was a psycho.
But Clem loving Kenny is completely and utterly determinant as she can not like him at all, so can't really be used as evidence for the situation as a whole.
Yeah and so is sympathizing with Jane and actually wanting to save her. In all honesty I thought she was a massive bitch. And yeah, you coul… mored use the comeback of "Yeah but Kenny was a dick too", "Kenny was a bigger dick" ect. But at least Kenny doesn't purposely push people over the edge to prove a point and talk smack about peoples dead families.
I was crying at the end, but I chose to go with Kenny....I mean after finishing the episode I was completely wordless and paralyzed and then that theme song in the end....that just completely overcharged my emotions and I cried.
I got this same ending too. I was crying after this scene especially when Kenny gives clem his hat and says I'm glad I met you Clementine. B… moreut the reason why i stayed at wellington is different to yours. I stopped because both Lee and Kenny wanted clem to be safe along with the baby, especially after 2 seasons I think it was about time for Clem to have a safe place to be. Anyway I love kenny for ever he will be missed. I just don't think we will see good ol' Kenny again .
He knew where it was safe , he probably walked across the ice 100 times, that being his stash house. He walked them right over that thin ice on purpose to kill one of them or to cause some sort of situation to try to escape.
Those Rooskies are devious, look at Putin. Even telltale agrees with me, i mean even if you put down the gun, Arvo shoots you for no reason proving that he is quite ebil. And yes I meant EBIL.
How did he cause Luke's death? He had nothing against him what so ever, and he ran because of the zombies.
basically Sarah alongside Sarit… morea's death - they never meant that to happen. Kenny didn't blame Sarah though. He just picked Arvo so he could unleash his anger upon him.
Arvo started a fight - because he wanted to confront his bully. Kenny beat him up again and again - so he stood up against the guy who hurt him again and again.
All you said was purely facts that aren't true - how do you know he walked 100 times, or knew where it was safe?
Also - Arvo didn't force any of them, he just said that it was safe - it was the group's choice to walk across the ice, not his. Luke's death was a situation which could not have been forseen by Arvo or forced by him. It was the groups call as to whether they should walk straight or not - and they did.
And "Rooskies are devious" is kind of stereotypical approach to the whole thing, is it not? Putin is just one Rooskie, not all.
He knew where it was safe , he probably walked across the ice 100 times, that being his stash house. He walked them right over that thin ic… moree on purpose to kill one of them or to cause some sort of situation to try to escape.
Those Rooskies are devious, look at Putin. Even telltale agrees with me, i mean even if you put down the gun, Arvo shoots you for no reason proving that he is quite ebil. And yes I meant EBIL.
Jane wasn't finished when she put her knife away, and she knew Kenny wasn't finished. She knew Kenny wasn't going to try anything while she had a knife in her hand. That would be suicide and not worth the risk.
It would defeat the entire purpose of her plan if she truly wanted to stop the incident right there. After she puts her knife away she says: "Don't you come near me". If Kenny listened to her and did what she said, she would have proven pretty much nothing. She then would have had to admit that the baby was actually still alive and all alone in an abandoned truck. She would have looked like a fool.
It very clearly went beyond defending herself. She was the one who turned a physical scrum into a fight to the death. She was the one who purposely provoked Kenny into an altercation in the first place.
You are the one who doesn't understand what was happening. I am a Kenny fan, But unlike some of the fans I could see what was happening. Kenny was out of control.
Comments
Ben abandons Clementine, Lee doesn't go off on him. Lee's boiling point was immediate harm to Clementine or her group not alleged or unsubstantiated harm.
I have no qualms about him dieing whatsoever. Frankly, I think it was a mistake that they bought him back for S2 rather then leaving him dead in S1. I found Jane a much more interesting character anyway.
Not helping Clem out more in that situation does not constitute him being a threat. Punching an enemy of the group three times after he mouthed off after getting group members hurt/killed does not mean he is a threat to be worried about. Certainly not to the extent that he would be a personal threat to another group member.
There is never any indication of that. Where are you getting that idea from? Even when you criticize her for the manipulation, she never says anything about this. She just said it needed to be done in order to show Kenny's true colors (a really illegitimate way to do that.. by the way). If you decided to leaver her, she says "I did this for you". She never says anything about the baby at all. Regardless, she was willing to kill another human being in order to try and prove a point. She had no right to do that.
Jane manipulated him into thinking she killed his kid. That was the entire point. Of course she couldn't just come out and say she did that, as it would have turned Clem against her in that situation. She did the next best thing. She was intentionally shady about it. She didn't even try explaining herself. Saying it was an "accident" one time doesn't just make everything go away, and she knew that. A parent who thinks someone just murdered their baby isn't going to be immediately rational, sorry. Jane would have needed to explain herself in that situation. That would have gone against the agenda though, because she wanted to fight. That was the entire point. The point wasn't to sit down and try to rationalize with Kenny. That would have been counter productive/ pointless to what she wanted to achieve.
Well i think its all Fking BullSit because there is no real good end. And than people think it is a good game because people sometime cry about it but i was just angry when i saw all endings. Everythin begins good like jane and luke where getting closer and than luke dies (the begin of it) than half of the group leaves like for no reason and than you have to chouse to kill some1 of youre best freinds. yea you will cry because of that but still it was a good game the ending thou. The moost people would just look away but than you can leave kenny and go alloon anyway and if you go away with him it ends there. I dont like it but still good game after all
I'm not going to address these (though I would disagree with you on almost all accounts), as they have nothing to do with the Jane situation. None of those are comparable to personally being a direct threat to a group member... as in none of those have anything to do with Kenny intentionally inflicting harm/violence on a member of the group. No comparison at all.
You don't have to follow up every statement with this. Of course its my opinion. That goes without saying.
Completely baseless argument. It doesn't matter anyway. She was trying to kill him, that is all that matters.
You don't know either way, so there is no argument to make. Just because you personally don't think it would have worked doesn't mean there was not merit in trying. And I mean come on.. if she told Kenny the baby was alive he would have no reason to continue fighting unless she was still trying to kill him.
Because that would have been hilariously counter productive and pointless to what she was trying to achieve overall. Clem would never get on board with her if she used that excuse to make Kenny mad. It wouldn't prove anything.
No it didn't. There was nothing to look at. All there was to go on was Jane saying it was an accident... just one time.. with no explanation or reasoning at all. Her intention was to make it look like she killed the baby in Kenny's eyes. If she wanted to rationalize and give a legitimate explanation for her actions she wouldn't have done what she did in the first place. Again, it would have been counter productive.
You knew she wouldn't have done such a thing? How? We know she abandoned her sister. We know she wanted to abandon a defenseless Sarah. We know she wanted to abandon Kenny. So why would she not abandon a baby? She never gave us any reason to believe her at all. There wasn't really any reason to infer that she didn't do it.
So you understood she was willing to kick Kenny where it hurt the most in order to try and draw a reaction out of him so she could have an excuse to leave him behind? It was a terrible thing to do.
He never intentionally tried to kill another group member before.
Okay, then it should have been easy to explain what happened. Again, she couldn't do that though because it went against the agenda.
He only killed her because she was trying to kill him. He was fighting for his life.
Who cares? He took care of that baby from the moment that it was born. He helped bring him into the world, and he clearly cared very much about him. Alvin Jr. was family to him.
I shot Kenny because I thought it was the right thing. And when it was revealed AJ was still alive I was just...speechless.
Oh god, I just can't believe I killed Kenny...
All I'm saying is that Jane clearly knew that Kenny wasn't emotionally stable at that time, she took advantage of that in the most manipulative way. I know it's not the best comparison, but the way I see it is, it's not unlike telling a friend who you know has an eating disorder about all the food you ate today, and how you never gain weight no matter how much you eat, and isn't that just awesome that you don't have to worry about that etc. This is very likely to cause a breakdown for the friend with the eating disorder, and you look like a heartless, insensitive, asshole because you knew this friend wasn't stable. Then lets say that you explain that you pushed the friend to their breaking point because you were trying to make a point to another friend who could be being influenced by the friend with the eating disorder. Under no circumstances, even if it's for another's benefit, is it ok to do that to a person who you know is not in the right mind. That is what Jane did to Kenny by implying that she let the baby die, when she knew how much he cared about AJ, when she knew how fragile his mindset was. Not to mention, it just plain rubs me the wrong way that Jane came up with this plan to force Clem into going with her. I'm not condoning Kenny killing Jane, but I won't say that she didn't bring it on herself either.
"Some of his fourteen year old 'dedicated followers' as well."
Some = everyone (apparently)
Interesting... point you got there.
Look, again, you can be as angry as you want that you and others got duped into the wrong endings, that's fine.
But the constant anger, the projecting, the excuses...I mean...it's not helpful for anyone.
Hey, you're the one who goes around every single forum, commenting every single post saying that saving Kenny was the RIGHT choice, that people should UNDERSTAND that, that Jane was INDISPUTABLY wrong and attacking people who have a different opinion, so I have every right to underline that what you write is just your opinion. I wrote what I think about the whole situation, explaining why I think that with both theories and facts, and you keep saying that your choices were the only right ones. I'm not a Kenny hater, I just did what I did because TO ME that was the best thing to do. Telltale games gave me that option because they knew that many people would have done the same thing, so stop complaining about that being "the wrong choice". Damn, I've even seen people saying that every non-kenny ending isn't canon, why is so hard for you to accept that people have different opinions about that? Of course you can write your opinion if you want, everybody can, but don't try to change the others'. It's your attitude that I don't like, not your theories,
Great, but you are completely stating the obvious and its pretty much pointless.
I'm not complaining. Its called discussion. That is why we have the forums. You are welcome to stop debating with me at any time.
??
I accept that people have different opinions than that. I (and of course many others) wouldn't be here debating the issue with so many different people if we were all on the same page. That goes without saying.
You're upset because I'm trying to change your viewpoint? Welcome to the entire point of discussion.
We are all going to be in the same situation in season 3 so really all of this probably wont matter.
how about "Clem had to save"?
Then I'm doing that now, because (as I wrote) I don't like your attitude and I don't think is possible to have a real conversation with you, when you keep saying that you're right and everyone else is wrong. Have a nice day.
Except he didn't become Carver or Lilly. Kenny didn't kill a defenseless, innocent bystander(Doug/Carley) due to his paranoia, nor did he kill people because they were weak/didn't follow his leadership. Kenny killed a woman who was actively attacking him, and purposely gave him the impression that she let a baby die/killed a baby to bring him to his breaking point. You can say that he instigated the physical fight, but she's the one who pulls a knife on him, slashes at his stomach, and then pursues him after he backs off. She even goes on to dig her fingers into his already wounded eye, I think by then she had already proved her point that Kenny was unstable, and yet she continues on. Why? because she wants to kill him. Jane was an active threat to Kenny's life, unlike Carley/Doug and Carver's followers. Jane came looking for a fight to the death, she wanted to "end it". She was playing a sick mind game from the beginning to get her way, and there is no excuse for toying with a person's emotions like she did.
That's kinda what you're saying though...
I'm saying what? sorry I don't understand
Oh, and murderers don't go to hell?
EDIT: Also I'm not going to even to BEGIN to touch on the problems with your statement regarding people with depression sir/madam. That's something you're going to just have to figure out on your own.
I shot Kenny and I'm glad I did it., I told Jane to fuck off and I'm glad I did it. Clem and AJ are better off with out either of those jerks.
I think I remember a conversation like this in a car. In the snow. Funny that. Even though it may seem like you're both at each other's throats here, from an outsider's perspective this is giving me a lot of really cool insight into what both people in Camp Kenny and Camp Jane think. Personally I think you're both right.
Alright , the same goes to you.
How did he cause Luke's death? He had nothing against him what so ever, and he ran because of the zombies.
basically Sarah alongside Sarita's death - they never meant that to happen. Kenny didn't blame Sarah though. He just picked Arvo so he could unleash his anger upon him.
Arvo started a fight - because he wanted to confront his bully. Kenny beat him up again and again - so he stood up against the guy who hurt him again and again.
I can understand why people killed Kenny... But the way I saw it, when Clem shot Kenny, he died thinking he failed Clem and AJ... At least if Clem stayed with Kenny there was a sense of hope created he would heal (slowly, gradually) with his new family; if she stayed in Wellington, he would still be a broken man, but one that fulfilled his duty and could finally die in peace.
You are the one who doesn't understand what was happening. I am a Kenny fan, But unlike some of the fans I could see what was happening. Kenny was out of control.
He never once turned around to help Clem, even when she called to him and brought him back from where his mind had vanished to. It wasn't a threat aimed AT Clem, but it still makes him a threat to other people. If it was just Clem and Jane, Clem would have survived, just Clem and Kenny and Clem may have frozen to death by the time Kenny came back to his senses.
She says in the car that Kenny would never let them take AJ, at that point I'm not sure she was intending to take him. However when it comes down to the fight, as people keep stating she could have told Kenny the baby was still alive at any point (he may not have believed her but she could have said it.) The only logical reason not to, is because she intends to take the baby with her as well.
If she didn't want to take the baby, all she had to do was not walk Clem to the car with AJ in it, if she was cold enough to kill someone over a point she'd be cold enough to leave the baby wouldn't you say?...
How? She walks in and says "He's" whilst showing more emotion than Jane ever has...then whilst Kenny is gone she comes out of it to tell Clem to stay out of it. Then Kenny comes in, barges past Clem and accuses Jane of killing the baby to which she says she didn't and it was an accident. She never manipulates him into thinking she killed AJ.
She knew he would assume that and not listed to what she said true. But she didn't manipulate him, this is exactly what she was trying to show Clem. Kenny came straight in on the attack, he never once gave Jane a proper chance to explain. Again she knew he wouldn't, but she didn't make Kenny do anything.
By doing what?
Just because she always starts shit with him - doesn't mean Kenny can get away with straight up murder. Also, what exactly did she do to piss him off so much? Kill the baby? Well that's kind of hypocritical since he was killing her - he pissed her off too, such as calling her nothing. He acted as if she was a punching bag - exactly like Arvo, just so he can let lose his stress.
Maybe Kenny should take some anger management classes from his friend, Walter..
Kenny started on her first. What was his reason then? She even put her knife back in her pocket when she thought he stopped.
That's true, she was a manipulative asshole.
That's the beauty of it though. Clem loving Kenny IS determinant, but Kenny loving Clem isn't.
Is it?
He certainly didn't create the impression of love for Clem in my playthroughs of season 1 and season 2.
Exactly, so is sympathising with Jane.
Therefore neither option is the right one and so implying it is is pointless.
Jane said that after Kenny said to her 'No-one cares about you, you're nothing.' That would hurt me pretty bad.
It doesn't make what she said right, but I can sure as hell understand it.
I was crying at the end, but I chose to go with Kenny....I mean after finishing the episode I was completely wordless and paralyzed and then that theme song in the end....that just completely overcharged my emotions and I cried.
I guess a crushed orbital and a missing eye are all forgotten about ...
He knew where it was safe , he probably walked across the ice 100 times, that being his stash house. He walked them right over that thin ice on purpose to kill one of them or to cause some sort of situation to try to escape.
Those Rooskies are devious, look at Putin. Even telltale agrees with me, i mean even if you put down the gun, Arvo shoots you for no reason proving that he is quite ebil. And yes I meant EBIL.
Yes.. I know. That was before the fight even started really. And he said multiple times. Not just one time. What he said was false.
All you said was purely facts that aren't true - how do you know he walked 100 times, or knew where it was safe?
Also - Arvo didn't force any of them, he just said that it was safe - it was the group's choice to walk across the ice, not his. Luke's death was a situation which could not have been forseen by Arvo or forced by him. It was the groups call as to whether they should walk straight or not - and they did.
And "Rooskies are devious" is kind of stereotypical approach to the whole thing, is it not? Putin is just one Rooskie, not all.
Jane wasn't finished when she put her knife away, and she knew Kenny wasn't finished. She knew Kenny wasn't going to try anything while she had a knife in her hand. That would be suicide and not worth the risk.
It would defeat the entire purpose of her plan if she truly wanted to stop the incident right there. After she puts her knife away she says: "Don't you come near me". If Kenny listened to her and did what she said, she would have proven pretty much nothing. She then would have had to admit that the baby was actually still alive and all alone in an abandoned truck. She would have looked like a fool.
It very clearly went beyond defending herself. She was the one who turned a physical scrum into a fight to the death. She was the one who purposely provoked Kenny into an altercation in the first place.