Exactly. So many people are being so unrealistic about the situation. Of course Kenny is going to be furious. Anyone would be. Especially so if they have reason to think murder was involved.
What do you expect to happen if you go up to a parent/adoptive parent/caretaker, especially one with a tendency to get angry often, of a chi… moreld and say "Oh yeah, that baby that I had? Yeah that thing's dead."
The parent asks, things like, "Is this a joke? What are you saying?" You say it was an accident very vaguely, without giving a proper explanation.
Even if it was me, and I'm a relatively calm person. If someone had my child for a few minutes and said they lost it in an accident, and I had no familial ties or close friendships.
I. Would. ****ing. Murder. Them.
I killed him in my first playthrough. I regretted it as I never regretted anything in my life before. Even though it's cheating, I rewinded. I couldn't live with it.
I killed him in my first playthrough. I regretted it as I never regretted anything in my life before. Even though it's cheating, I rewinded. I couldn't live with it.
Я себя чувствую замечательно, так как не поддался на (хотя, к чему это я, я бы поддержал Кенни в любой игровой ситуации) провокации Джейн. Ну, а раз ты поддалась (даже если ты просто "хотела спасти Джейн", фу, даже писать это противно, спасти Джейн?), то правильно, что ты этого себе "никогда не простишь". Так оно и должно быть.
Не сыпь мне соль на рану! Я и так ночью не могла уснуть, меня терзали душевные волнения Я даже разрыдалась, как младенец.
Ну, хотя бы я себя чувствую чуть-чуть лучше, потому что потом его спасла. Но все равно себе этого никогда не прошу.
Ну, а раз ты поддалась (даже если ты просто "хотела спасти Джейн", фу, даже писать это противно, спасти Джейн?), то правильно, что ты этого себе "никогда не простишь". Так оно и должно быть.
Я себя чувствую замечательно, так как не поддался на (хотя, к чему это я, я бы поддержал Кенни в любой игровой ситуации) провокации Джейн. Н… moreу, а раз ты поддалась (даже если ты просто "хотела спасти Джейн", фу, даже писать это противно, спасти Джейн?), то правильно, что ты этого себе "никогда не простишь". Так оно и должно быть.
Да ладно, шучу я. Я просто поддерживал Кенни с первого эпизода первого сезона, даже если сам не был с ним согласен (но я был!). Мне вполне ясно, почему некоторые люди, несмотря на то, что они были за Кенни, всё же выстрелили в него (тем более, что многие из них это решение в итоге изменили).
Так что, как говорится, don't beat yourself up over it.
Ну, а раз ты поддалась (даже если ты просто "хотела спасти Джейн", фу, даже писать это противно, спасти Джейн?), то правильно, что ты этого себе "никогда не простишь". Так оно и должно быть.
Спасибо за поддержку
Ok, I'll concede Kenny wasn't aiming to kill her at first. Could you explain what it was he was going to do after pinning her that required him pinning her in the first place?
There is no way to know really. He was just getting in her face. Like what he did with Mike, there really wasn't a point to it other than to show aggression.
Yes, Jane had an agenda, but claiming "she pushed his buttons" isn't an excuse for violent behavior.
Okay, but any parent/guardian who thinks someone murdered their child is going to absolutely flip out. This isn't special to Kenny, it could very well happen to anyone. Switch Kenny with Rebecca and the same thing probably would have happened. It didn't help matters that Kenny was already grieving. Ideally you would not want him to be that aggressive, but can you blame him? Jane was intentionally not trying to rationalize what happened, so how can we expect Kenny to do the same?
. She only had an agenda because she thought Kenny was a threat to Clementine's safety, and she only thought that because he'd proven it the night before.
He didn't do anything to prove that at all. What did he do the night before? Rough Arvo up a little? Arvo was an enemy to the group who had gotten members of the group killed/injured. He doesn't compare to a group member. Kenny wouldn't just lash out and attack a group member for no reason, let alone Clementine.
His violent behavior was what led Mike to trying to run away with Arvo, and to Clem getting shot.
Because Mike decided he wanted to coddle Arvo for some bizarre reason. Kenny had nothing to do with Arvo shooting Clem. That doesn't stem back to Kenny at all. If everyone would have listened to Kenny about Arvo in the first place Clem would never have even been shot by him. But instead everyone decides to trust and coddle the guy for no good reason at all.
Punching Arvo didn't make Clem safer. Being divisive and belligerent and breaking up the group didn't make Clem safer.
I wouldn't disagree. Kind of easy to put that target on him though when he was seemingly always in the minority opinion during the episode.
Not sure what this has to do with the Jane incident though, as this wouldn't be proper justification for her actions at all. Especially if you personally side with Kenny on his plans.
Jane was wrong to do what she did, not because he made him be aggressive, but because it's a shitty thing to do.
Nah, it has to be both. She knew how he was going to react. Like I said above, most parental figures are going to become aggressive if they think you murdered their baby. Being given zero rationalization didn't help matters.
Because him reacting like that kept putting Clem in danger.
Not really. It wasn't a consistent thing in the least. If she didn't want him to react like that because it *supposedly *put Clem in danger, then clearly she was being hypocritical considering she purposely wanted him to react that way in that situation. Did she not care about putting Clem in supposed danger there? It was okay because it fit her agenda..?
Ok, I'll concede Kenny wasn't aiming to kill her at first. Could you explain what it was he was going to do after pinning her that required … morehim pinning her in the first place?
Yes, Jane had an agenda, but claiming "she pushed his buttons" isn't an excuse for violent behavior. She only had an agenda because she thought Kenny was a threat to Clementine's safety, and she only thought that because he'd proven it the night before. His violent behavior was what led Mike to trying to run away with Arvo, and to Clem getting shot.
Punching Arvo didn't make Clem safer. Being divisive and belligerent and breaking up the group didn't make Clem safer. And pinning Jane for some unspecified purpose wasn't going to make Clem safer, even if his suspicion that Jane had killed AJ had been right.
Jane was wrong to do what she did, not because he made him be aggressive, but because it's a shitty thing to do. But it was Kenny that took the bait and respon… [view original content]
Да ладно, шучу я. Я просто поддерживал Кенни с первого эпизода первого сезона, даже если сам не был с ним согласен (но я был!). Мне вполне я… moreсно, почему некоторые люди, несмотря на то, что они были за Кенни, всё же выстрелили в него (тем более, что многие из них это решение в итоге изменили).
Так что, как говорится, don't beat yourself up over it.
Belan, you really are trying your hardest to grasp at straws to protect your precious Kenny.
Umm... not at all. Its the opposite really. I am only using what we can see with our actual eyes as evidence. I'm not making baseless speculations.
Kenny never really showed any real attachment to Jane at all, he doesn't really seem to care if she lives or dies
Again, I will bring up the truck incident. When he almost crashed the truck, he* immediately* asked Jane if she was all right, even before he asked Clem. He showed concern for her. He then goes on to tell her to wait in the car so she would be safe while he went and got fuel by himself.
Kenny didn't really like Jane and had little trust in her, but there is no evidence at all to show that he had no concern for her well being. You're making that up entirely on your own without anything to base it on.
Kenny was losing it
No he wasn't. Grieving and being angry is not the same thing as "losing it". Never once did we ever see anything to show that Kenny was for sure going crazy.
losing the baby was going to be the fuse that would essentially drive him to kill
Nothing to base that on other than the fact that he became violent when he had thought that Jane had murdered his baby. There is no evidence that he would react the same way in any incidence of the baby dying.
He was fully intent on hurting Jane
Because he thought she had murdered his adopted baby (and Jane purposely wanted him to think this). That is the type thing that will cause most people to potentially react violently. Actually, that would probably be near the very top of the list. Anyone could have reacted the same way.
she put her knife away, and Kenny charged at her.
Because Kenny would never have attacked her when she had her knife out. That would be stupid. She knew she had to put it away in order for the fight to happen. Think about it. What if Kenny had just stopped and calmed down when she said "Don't you come near me" and then put her weapon away? Her plan would have totally failed and she wouldn't have really proven anything considering she would then have had to admit the absolutely sick actions+intentions of her original plan.
Jane said it was an accident and Kenny DID NOT BELIEVE HER
Saying "it was an accident" is not going to erase all doubt and convictions. Not when a parent thinks you have murdered their child. You're not being realistic. Based on her character, Kenny was convinced that she had murdered/abandoned AJ. She intentionally wanted this, so she did nothing to rationalize what happened.
DID NOT BELIEVE HER and probably still wouldn't if she did rationalize "I'M DONE TALKING CLEM."
Of course hes going to say that. That doesn't mean a rationalization wouldn't have calmed him down. Obviously if Jane actually would have wanted to calm Kenny down, she would have needed to do this.
Kenny only disengaged when he got cut
Yes, I have never said otherwise. The point still stands that this was a perfect opportunity for Jane to try and end the fight. She simply could have told him that AJ was still alive. Instead all she does is further escalate the situation.
but in no way was he going to back down
How do you know? There is nothing to base that on at all.
he wasn't fighting for his life
Are you kidding? We have been over this already. Everything after the point that Jane drew her knife and slashed his stomach, he was absolutely fighting for his life. Why do you think he retreated outside in the first place? Are you honestly trying to tell me she was not trying to to kill him? If any of her knife attacks would have connected he easily could have died.
You're better than an extreme hardcore Kenny lover Belan.
I'm not being extreme or hardcore. I'm simply looking at the situation and doing my best to be logical/ realistic about it. I'm not making anything up like you are. Almost all of your points are almost baseless speculation. They didn't actually refute anything I said. Not trying to be rude or anything, I just don't see how you can act like I'm being irrational when you're not actually doing anything to disprove my points.
It is also massively hypocritical that you are telling me I am being biased/irrational. You ripped someone in this very thread for stating that his own opinion was the correct one. Clearly you are insinuating that I am wrong and you are right. Anyway, just thought I would ask for some consistency.
Belan, you really are trying your hardest to grasp at straws to protect your precious Kenny. Kenny never really showed any real attachment t… moreo Jane at all, he doesn't really seem to care if she lives or dies, or leaves, the "are you alright" just comes off as weird. Kenny was losing it, and losing the baby was going to be the fuse that would essentially drive him to kill, He was fully intent on hurting Jane, whether he wanted to or not, may I remind you that Kenny was the one who threw the FIRST PUNCH at Jane and then Jane dodged it, she put her knife away, and Kenny charged at her. Jane said it was an accident and Kenny DID NOT BELIEVE HER and probably still wouldn't if she did rationalize "I'M DONE TALKING CLEM." Kenny only disengaged when he got cut, he was clearly hurting, but in no way was he going to back down, and simply run away from Jane, he wasn't fighting for his life, he was a madman by that point and intended on either beating Ja… [view original content]
I know I'm not right, I'm just trying not to be on Kenny's side or Jane's side, in my eyes, both of them were at fault in the entire fight, Jane is a liar and made a stupid mistake but thought Kenny was dangerous and wanted to protect Clem, and Kenny loses his temper and doesn't attempt to think straight when he gets really pissed off, but cares about the people that need caring and has an idea that hope is somewhere down the dark and dirty tunnel, is he crazy? Or not? That's up to the player, and in my opinion, there's a chance that Kenny CAN go nuts and I wouldn't be surprised if he did go full Carver sometime down the road, he's a man that lost so many things in the apocalypse and has a bit of a bad attitude if people don't agree with him, I don't hate Kenny at all, I find him sympathetic and such, but I also don't hate Jane, I also find her sympathetic in a way, and I certainly can't just let Kenny kill Jane, I didn't want anyone to die in that situation. I suppose I was a little inconsistent with the whole opinions and biased, but it's kind of hard to do that when it gets to the point of opposing worldviews, so I admit I made a mistake in that regard, I think we should just go our separate ways and end this debate in peaceful terms.
Belan, you really are trying your hardest to grasp at straws to protect your precious Kenny.
Umm... not at all. Its the opposite rea… morelly. I am only using what we can see with our actual eyes as evidence. I'm not making baseless speculations.
Kenny never really showed any real attachment to Jane at all, he doesn't really seem to care if she lives or dies
Again, I will bring up the truck incident. When he almost crashed the truck, he* immediately* asked Jane if she was all right, even before he asked Clem. He showed concern for her. He then goes on to tell her to wait in the car so she would be safe while he went and got fuel by himself.
Kenny didn't really like Jane and had little trust in her, but there is no evidence at all to show that he had no concern for her well being. You're making that up entirely on your own without anything to base it on.
Kenny was losing it
No he wasn't. Grieving and being angr… [view original content]
I do think Kenny had some fault during the fight as well, but his reaction was a natural, realistic response to the situation. I'm not going to kill the guy when the whole thing was a setup and he reacted like almost any other enraged parent/guardian/protector would.
I think we should just go our separate ways and end this debate in peaceful terms.
I didn't realize that we were not already on peaceful terms
I know I'm not right, I'm just trying not to be on Kenny's side or Jane's side, in my eyes, both of them were at fault in the entire fight, … moreJane is a liar and made a stupid mistake but thought Kenny was dangerous and wanted to protect Clem, and Kenny loses his temper and doesn't attempt to think straight when he gets really pissed off, but cares about the people that need caring and has an idea that hope is somewhere down the dark and dirty tunnel, is he crazy? Or not? That's up to the player, and in my opinion, there's a chance that Kenny CAN go nuts and I wouldn't be surprised if he did go full Carver sometime down the road, he's a man that lost so many things in the apocalypse and has a bit of a bad attitude if people don't agree with him, I don't hate Kenny at all, I find him sympathetic and such, but I also don't hate Jane, I also find her sympathetic in a way, and I certainly can't just let Kenny kill Jane, I didn't want anyone to die i… [view original content]
I kindly disagree. I don't think Jane is the type to pick fights. I believe she was trying to protect Clem. But, yeah, I'll definitely loom up other other endings soon.
Kenny's not gone if you shot him. Kenny is a walker. Because for some stupid reason Clem doesn't shoot him in the head even though she knows full well that means he'll turn into a walker. My Clem isn't that stupid, and she really wanted to shoot Kenny in the head, and several times just to be sure, but TT didn't let her...
Because Mike decided he wanted to coddle Arvo for some bizarre reason. Kenny had nothing to do with Arvo shooting Clem.
Yes he did. One can't always know where one's actions will lead. It doesn't matter what your intent is, a lot of things are outside your control, and there are a lot of things you might not know. If Kenny was actually good at protecting Clem, he'd have considered the group's feelings and opinions.
The fact is that roughing up Arvo was not meant to protect Clem. It was meant to make himself feel better about a shitty situation. It wasn't even Arvo's fault that Luke died. Arvo had crossed the ice before, his family had crossed it before, how could he have guessed that it would break under Luke? No one seemed to know basic ice survival methods like crawling instead of walking, either, and a lot of people die on thin ice under the best of circumstances.
When he was roughing him up, Clem's safety was at stake, but it wasn't on his mind. Because while he nominally cares for her, he's not an effective caretaker. Someone looking to protect Clem would have tried to minimize conflict, because conflict is dangerous. You never know how a caged person will react, so you shouldn't rattle the cage each chance you get. Kenny could never understand this. When things didn't go his way, his only concern was to find a person to blame and take out his frustration on them.
Clem getting shot is a direct result of Kenny being a violent asshole. It doesn't matter that he was violent in some misguided attempt to "protect her". It matters that he scared the shit out of Mike. Not grasping such basic group dynamics put Clem at risk, and resulted in her getting shot.
It didn't even serve any purpose, it just showed Arvo that if he cooperated and did exactly what he claimed he would do, he'd receive a beating anyway.
Another example of him putting them at risk was his argument with Jane. Jane was at fault there too, but the fact is that he was driving through a storm, with poor visibility, and he almost crashed the car because he wasn't minding the road. Even if you tell him to watch the road and stop arguing. And this wasn't just Jane pressing his buttons, they were both sniping at each other. The difference being, Kenny was the one driving. If he cared about Clem's safety, he should have been the bigger man and let Jane run her mouth if that was what it took to get her to shut up. But whenever Kenny's temper and Clem's safety where at odds, his temper won out.
I imagine that Jane's plan was to fabricate a controlled situation where Kenny's over reactions would make it clear to Clementine that Kenny was dangerous without actually putting Clementine at risk, and she could then get him away from him. It was a bad plan, and wrong of her, and it got out of hand. She isn't perfect, nor especially nice. I'm not defending what she did, and I felt betrayed when I found AJ.
Ok, I'll concede Kenny wasn't aiming to kill her at first. Could you explain what it was he was going to do after pinning her that required … morehim pinning her in the first place?
There is no way to know really. He was just getting in her face. Like what he did with Mike, there really wasn't a point to it other than to show aggression.
Yes, Jane had an agenda, but claiming "she pushed his buttons" isn't an excuse for violent behavior.
Okay, but any parent/guardian who thinks someone murdered their child is going to absolutely flip out. This isn't special to Kenny, it could very well happen to anyone. Switch Kenny with Rebecca and the same thing probably would have happened. It didn't help matters that Kenny was already grieving. Ideally you would not want him to be that aggressive, but can you blame him? Jane was intentionally not trying to rationalize what happened, so how can we expect Kenny to do the same?
. She onl… [view original content]
Hmm, Kenny is so irrational, i doubt he'd even believe her if she says he was still alive. If you ask him to talk about it, he says "Im done talkin" He doesnt listen to anyone but himself and Clem, and barely even listens to Clem much.
But Jane had proof to make him believe her : she could have stopped the fight at any moment by saying the baby was alive.
Why does she ha… moreve to deny it in the first place ? Because she pretends the baby is dead.
Instead of denying being a child killer, she should tell Kenny why she can't be : because the baby is actually alive.
She didn't want to prove Kenny wrong, she wanted to fight. To the end.
I only shot Kenny because I knew what Jane was doing and that she hadn't really let AJ die. I couldn't let Kenny kill Jane under her false pretenses especially when I don't know where the baby is. Jane is dumb as hell and I hate that she forced me to make that choice. Her bullshit stunt proved nothing other than the fact that she'll stoop to such tactics to get rid of someone. I'm still with her but I don't necessarily forgive her action or agree with her 100% about Kenny which is what the game doesn't allow you to express unfortunately. I still like her though, for the most part.
R.I.P. Kenny. You were a bastard at times, but you were my bastard. BROS FO LYFE...except when you disagree with me.
He started the fight, swung first punch under pure rage that (what he thought) she killed the baby (with no evidence, another rash move, of … morecourse). I dont think what Jane did was right but the way Kenny reacted, i dont think either either of them were right, and i dont think Jane would of started a fight if he didn't attack first, (i know she lied and it was wrong but he could of asked for answers)
Comments
I never liked Jane from the start and I was never going to go against my beloved Kenny!!
i feel very bad for kenny but me i killd him becase he is very angry and he look very sad and jane was gona die i hav to help her!
Exactly. So many people are being so unrealistic about the situation. Of course Kenny is going to be furious. Anyone would be. Especially so if they have reason to think murder was involved.
Well, not so pro-Kenny after all, are you?
I let him kill Jane without a second thought. The very option to kill him afterwards felt like an insult.
I killed him in my first playthrough. I regretted it as I never regretted anything in my life before. Even though it's cheating, I rewinded. I couldn't live with it.
Не сыпь мне соль на рану! Я и так ночью не могла уснуть, меня терзали душевные волнения
Я даже разрыдалась, как младенец.
Ну, хотя бы я себя чувствую чуть-чуть лучше, потому что потом его спасла. Но все равно себе этого никогда не прошу.
But Jane had proof to make him believe her : she could have stopped the fight at any moment by saying the baby was alive.
Why does she have to deny it in the first place ? Because she pretends the baby is dead.
Instead of denying being a child killer, she should tell Kenny why she can't be : because the baby is actually alive.
She didn't want to prove Kenny wrong, she wanted to fight. To the end.
Я себя чувствую замечательно, так как не поддался на (хотя, к чему это я, я бы поддержал Кенни в любой игровой ситуации) провокации Джейн. Ну, а раз ты поддалась (даже если ты просто "хотела спасти Джейн", фу, даже писать это противно, спасти Джейн?), то правильно, что ты этого себе "никогда не простишь". Так оно и должно быть.
I'm still almost certain, that if it was Jane on top of Kenny about to stab him, most people would've shot her.
Спасибо за поддержку
Да ладно, шучу я. Я просто поддерживал Кенни с первого эпизода первого сезона, даже если сам не был с ним согласен (но я был!). Мне вполне ясно, почему некоторые люди, несмотря на то, что они были за Кенни, всё же выстрелили в него (тем более, что многие из них это решение в итоге изменили).
Так что, как говорится, don't beat yourself up over it.
There is no way to know really. He was just getting in her face. Like what he did with Mike, there really wasn't a point to it other than to show aggression.
Okay, but any parent/guardian who thinks someone murdered their child is going to absolutely flip out. This isn't special to Kenny, it could very well happen to anyone. Switch Kenny with Rebecca and the same thing probably would have happened. It didn't help matters that Kenny was already grieving. Ideally you would not want him to be that aggressive, but can you blame him? Jane was intentionally not trying to rationalize what happened, so how can we expect Kenny to do the same?
He didn't do anything to prove that at all. What did he do the night before? Rough Arvo up a little? Arvo was an enemy to the group who had gotten members of the group killed/injured. He doesn't compare to a group member. Kenny wouldn't just lash out and attack a group member for no reason, let alone Clementine.
Because Mike decided he wanted to coddle Arvo for some bizarre reason. Kenny had nothing to do with Arvo shooting Clem. That doesn't stem back to Kenny at all. If everyone would have listened to Kenny about Arvo in the first place Clem would never have even been shot by him. But instead everyone decides to trust and coddle the guy for no good reason at all.
I wouldn't disagree. Kind of easy to put that target on him though when he was seemingly always in the minority opinion during the episode.
Not sure what this has to do with the Jane incident though, as this wouldn't be proper justification for her actions at all. Especially if you personally side with Kenny on his plans.
Nah, it has to be both. She knew how he was going to react. Like I said above, most parental figures are going to become aggressive if they think you murdered their baby. Being given zero rationalization didn't help matters.
Not really. It wasn't a consistent thing in the least. If she didn't want him to react like that because it *supposedly *put Clem in danger, then clearly she was being hypocritical considering she purposely wanted him to react that way in that situation. Did she not care about putting Clem in supposed danger there? It was okay because it fit her agenda..?
Ну, пришлось бы жить с тем, что ты сделала.
зловещий смех
Спасибо. Хорошо ведь, что это игра. Тут можно переиграть. Даже и не представляю, что со мной бы было если бы в реальности пришлось такое сделать.
Хорошо, что сообщение заглючило и не показывается. У меня слегка поменялась идея.
http://vk.com/telltalegame?z=photo-68943137_339258014/album-68943137_00/rev
Umm... not at all. Its the opposite really. I am only using what we can see with our actual eyes as evidence. I'm not making baseless speculations.
Again, I will bring up the truck incident. When he almost crashed the truck, he* immediately* asked Jane if she was all right, even before he asked Clem. He showed concern for her. He then goes on to tell her to wait in the car so she would be safe while he went and got fuel by himself.
Kenny didn't really like Jane and had little trust in her, but there is no evidence at all to show that he had no concern for her well being. You're making that up entirely on your own without anything to base it on.
No he wasn't. Grieving and being angry is not the same thing as "losing it". Never once did we ever see anything to show that Kenny was for sure going crazy.
Nothing to base that on other than the fact that he became violent when he had thought that Jane had murdered his baby. There is no evidence that he would react the same way in any incidence of the baby dying.
Because he thought she had murdered his adopted baby (and Jane purposely wanted him to think this). That is the type thing that will cause most people to potentially react violently. Actually, that would probably be near the very top of the list. Anyone could have reacted the same way.
Because Kenny would never have attacked her when she had her knife out. That would be stupid. She knew she had to put it away in order for the fight to happen. Think about it. What if Kenny had just stopped and calmed down when she said "Don't you come near me" and then put her weapon away? Her plan would have totally failed and she wouldn't have really proven anything considering she would then have had to admit the absolutely sick actions+intentions of her original plan.
Saying "it was an accident" is not going to erase all doubt and convictions. Not when a parent thinks you have murdered their child. You're not being realistic. Based on her character, Kenny was convinced that she had murdered/abandoned AJ. She intentionally wanted this, so she did nothing to rationalize what happened.
Of course hes going to say that. That doesn't mean a rationalization wouldn't have calmed him down. Obviously if Jane actually would have wanted to calm Kenny down, she would have needed to do this.
Yes, I have never said otherwise. The point still stands that this was a perfect opportunity for Jane to try and end the fight. She simply could have told him that AJ was still alive. Instead all she does is further escalate the situation.
How do you know? There is nothing to base that on at all.
Are you kidding? We have been over this already. Everything after the point that Jane drew her knife and slashed his stomach, he was absolutely fighting for his life. Why do you think he retreated outside in the first place? Are you honestly trying to tell me she was not trying to to kill him? If any of her knife attacks would have connected he easily could have died.
I'm not being extreme or hardcore. I'm simply looking at the situation and doing my best to be logical/ realistic about it. I'm not making anything up like you are. Almost all of your points are almost baseless speculation. They didn't actually refute anything I said. Not trying to be rude or anything, I just don't see how you can act like I'm being irrational when you're not actually doing anything to disprove my points.
It is also massively hypocritical that you are telling me I am being biased/irrational. You ripped someone in this very thread for stating that his own opinion was the correct one. Clearly you are insinuating that I am wrong and you are right. Anyway, just thought I would ask for some consistency.
I know I'm not right, I'm just trying not to be on Kenny's side or Jane's side, in my eyes, both of them were at fault in the entire fight, Jane is a liar and made a stupid mistake but thought Kenny was dangerous and wanted to protect Clem, and Kenny loses his temper and doesn't attempt to think straight when he gets really pissed off, but cares about the people that need caring and has an idea that hope is somewhere down the dark and dirty tunnel, is he crazy? Or not? That's up to the player, and in my opinion, there's a chance that Kenny CAN go nuts and I wouldn't be surprised if he did go full Carver sometime down the road, he's a man that lost so many things in the apocalypse and has a bit of a bad attitude if people don't agree with him, I don't hate Kenny at all, I find him sympathetic and such, but I also don't hate Jane, I also find her sympathetic in a way, and I certainly can't just let Kenny kill Jane, I didn't want anyone to die in that situation. I suppose I was a little inconsistent with the whole opinions and biased, but it's kind of hard to do that when it gets to the point of opposing worldviews, so I admit I made a mistake in that regard, I think we should just go our separate ways and end this debate in peaceful terms.
You killed him, so you can only blame yourself for falling for ondore's lies!
a
I do think Kenny had some fault during the fight as well, but his reaction was a natural, realistic response to the situation. I'm not going to kill the guy when the whole thing was a setup and he reacted like almost any other enraged parent/guardian/protector would.
I didn't realize that we were not already on peaceful terms
eh...I don't think Kenny ever hit clem...
Kenny's not gone if you shot him. Kenny is a walker. Because for some stupid reason Clem doesn't shoot him in the head even though she knows full well that means he'll turn into a walker. My Clem isn't that stupid, and she really wanted to shoot Kenny in the head, and several times just to be sure, but TT didn't let her...
Yes he did. One can't always know where one's actions will lead. It doesn't matter what your intent is, a lot of things are outside your control, and there are a lot of things you might not know. If Kenny was actually good at protecting Clem, he'd have considered the group's feelings and opinions.
The fact is that roughing up Arvo was not meant to protect Clem. It was meant to make himself feel better about a shitty situation. It wasn't even Arvo's fault that Luke died. Arvo had crossed the ice before, his family had crossed it before, how could he have guessed that it would break under Luke? No one seemed to know basic ice survival methods like crawling instead of walking, either, and a lot of people die on thin ice under the best of circumstances.
When he was roughing him up, Clem's safety was at stake, but it wasn't on his mind. Because while he nominally cares for her, he's not an effective caretaker. Someone looking to protect Clem would have tried to minimize conflict, because conflict is dangerous. You never know how a caged person will react, so you shouldn't rattle the cage each chance you get. Kenny could never understand this. When things didn't go his way, his only concern was to find a person to blame and take out his frustration on them.
Clem getting shot is a direct result of Kenny being a violent asshole. It doesn't matter that he was violent in some misguided attempt to "protect her". It matters that he scared the shit out of Mike. Not grasping such basic group dynamics put Clem at risk, and resulted in her getting shot.
It didn't even serve any purpose, it just showed Arvo that if he cooperated and did exactly what he claimed he would do, he'd receive a beating anyway.
Another example of him putting them at risk was his argument with Jane. Jane was at fault there too, but the fact is that he was driving through a storm, with poor visibility, and he almost crashed the car because he wasn't minding the road. Even if you tell him to watch the road and stop arguing. And this wasn't just Jane pressing his buttons, they were both sniping at each other. The difference being, Kenny was the one driving. If he cared about Clem's safety, he should have been the bigger man and let Jane run her mouth if that was what it took to get her to shut up. But whenever Kenny's temper and Clem's safety where at odds, his temper won out.
I imagine that Jane's plan was to fabricate a controlled situation where Kenny's over reactions would make it clear to Clementine that Kenny was dangerous without actually putting Clementine at risk, and she could then get him away from him. It was a bad plan, and wrong of her, and it got out of hand. She isn't perfect, nor especially nice. I'm not defending what she did, and I felt betrayed when I found AJ.
Hmm, Kenny is so irrational, i doubt he'd even believe her if she says he was still alive. If you ask him to talk about it, he says "Im done talkin" He doesnt listen to anyone but himself and Clem, and barely even listens to Clem much.
I only shot Kenny because I knew what Jane was doing and that she hadn't really let AJ die. I couldn't let Kenny kill Jane under her false pretenses especially when I don't know where the baby is. Jane is dumb as hell and I hate that she forced me to make that choice. Her bullshit stunt proved nothing other than the fact that she'll stoop to such tactics to get rid of someone. I'm still with her but I don't necessarily forgive her action or agree with her 100% about Kenny which is what the game doesn't allow you to express unfortunately. I still like her though, for the most part.
R.I.P. Kenny. You were a bastard at times, but you were my bastard. BROS FO LYFE...except when you disagree with me.
Jane provoked him on purpose and drew her knife on him.
Clem will fell guilt about it any way.
b.
My sides!