But it wasn't self defence! Jane baked Kenny into a corner. If she hadn't pretended she had gotten the baby killed. He never would've fought her! That was never self defence. She wanted to kill him.
Nothing to do with "love". Jane is more rational pick, since she is pretty much the best company to clem. Jane, Molly and Lee are the best possible friends to have, if you want to survive in such world.
Kenny is just an unstable mess who might hurt anyone for no proper reason.
I think both endings where you leave with either Jane or Kenny are interesting and can reveal different sides of your Clem's personality. I picked the ending with Kenny and when I think about it, it's probably a good thing for the baby because he knows how to take care of him. But Jane doesn't like babies and she wouldn't know how to take care of it and Clem is just a child so it might be difficult for her to take care of him all on her own (even in the alone ending). I also didn't like how Jane tries to convince Clem to abandon Kenny when he's not in the car, she wants Clem to betray someone.
Also my Clem never killed anyone, she didn't kill the stranger, she didn't shoot Lee, so I didn't want her to kill someone that isn't a walker.
So what about the next person Kenny thinks might have caused harm to AJ? He either beats them to death or near death. But I guess that's Ok? Kenny is about what he thinks or your the enemy. At least Jane doesn't fly off the handle over mistakes or disagreements. The first thing she does when coming back is save Kenny's life from Russians shooting at him. Shen then continues to help as she saves Clem from drowning at the lake and not leaving like the others did. She could've just left them all.... And what does Kenny do? He assumed she murdered a baby MERELY because she didn't show up with him in her arms. He refuses to even hear her out even if Clem begs him to. Not someone I want anywhere near me in the ZA!
So what about the next person Jane doesn't agree with? She either abandons them or kills them. But I guess that's ok?
Jane is out for Jane.… more At least Kenny cared about the group. The first thing he does when he spins the car is ask if Jane is ok.
He then goes to look for fuel. To keep the car going. The car he fixed and used for the whole group I mean. He could've just left them all...
And what does Jane do? As soon as she heats gun shots, she wants to leave him to die.
Not someone I want anywhere near me in the ZA!
Some people sound like they love literally everything he has done. That's just odd.
Like, the sensible ones acknowledge he has faults as much as I acknowledge he has positives. But for some people...he could murder the entire group and they wouldn't give a damn
She tells Clem she is 90% of the reason she came back, and she promises she'll never abandon her again. Those words were sincere, as sincere as Kenny apologizing to Clem in the camp fire scene.
More sincere if you ask me. Because Kenny just keeps doing what hes doing. He apologizes AFTER he does it but he just goes back to doing it. Jane stayed and she had more reason than anyone else. Especially after Luke died.
She tells Clem she is 90% of the reason she came back, and she promises she'll never abandon her again. Those words were sincere, as sincere… more as Kenny apologizing to Clem in the camp fire scene. If she was in fact out for herself there would be no need for her to return to the group. Someone you are surviving with is someone you are looking after. A "survival buddy" as you put it is a partner. Someone who looks after you, while you look after them. Jane cared about Clem, as much as Kenny.
It's not about need Clem, it's about wanting her. Her time with Clem stirs up memories of her sister and she wants Clem as a proxy for that. Jane is better off on her own so why would she think she is the best person to care for Clem and the baby?
And in Jane's ending we see where her heart truly lied. She respects Clem's call when it comes to letting the family in. Hell she lets the family in herself if you let the timer run out.
Whats interesting here is both Jane or Kenny endings show them in a good light. There is no right or wrong ending here.
In Kenny's ending we see where his heart truly lied. He gave up the children to the safety of Wellington. Jane's intentions are still unknow… moren, only that she is keeping Clem close. Her believing she is the best person to care for them and her being at her best alone is an inconsistency. It does nothing to prove your point. Another reason has to exist to make the decision work. I propose that it's her want to have Clem at her side for her own benefit.
Well i remember lee telling Kenny in season 1 episode 1, something along the lines of "when you look back, you wish you could have done differently, but in the heat of the moment, you don't have a choice." I guess that's basically how it went with my pizza and ice cream choice.
If the roles were reversed and it was Jane doing what Kenny did in because she thought the baby was dead every single one of you who condone Kenny would call him a saint for showing her true colors. Don't even try to deny it. Double standards what?
The thing is, if the roles were reversed and it was Kenny doing what Jane did in order to get rid of her, every single one of you who condon… moree Jane would be calling for Kenny's head right there. Don't even try to deny it. Double standards.
Anyone who does something like that should never be trusted again, EVER. She didn't deserve to die, but considering you had to choose one and she was the one who caused the situation....
Not to mention that if it was Kenny coming up with that plan, everyone would conclude, me included, that that was the ultimate proof of Kenny's insanity. So what does that tell you about Jane?
Actually everyone I see who is against Kenny is stubborn (they refuse to accept any opinion other than theirs) hot tempered (they're usually… more rude to any pro Kenny forumer and resort to using insults) and not violent but perfectly unpleasant people.
He is the most realistically written person in the game. And yes. If I went through what Kenny had been through. Yes. I'd probably be like him. As would most of us here, as much as everyone denies it.
At least I have the ability to look at every side of the discussion and look at it rationally. Have the grace to admit that I am not infallible and would likely make the same.mistakes in the same situation.
Jane obviously wanted Clem to come with her, to make sure she stays safe and away from Kenny. If she would just reveal her plan, Clementine wouldnt care to follow Jane because Clem was so blind about Kenny being Carver 2.0, mainly because they had been friends for a while.
She could have stopped the fucking fight by saying "Kenny, Kenny, the baby's alright", Kenny would have put his Floridian O-O face and went … more"Wha--?" and then she explains what the fuck was the trying to prove. She didn't, she wanted to kill him.
Why the fuck did she start bashing Kenny while driving?!
NOT EVEN in a non-apocalypse you can you around joking with a baby's death, what the fuck! She was looking for a fight to the death. She got it (in my game).
Jane's followers( more mature than calling them Kenny's haters) will try to find ANY little thing to go against Kenny so it's no surprise th… moreat they are easily manipulated into condoning Jane's actions. They're sheeple and "weak of will" as put in Carver's words.
There was no TEAMJANE in episode 4 so that tells a lot on how desperate they are to jump into the hate bandwagon.
If she would just reveal her plan, Clementine wouldnt care to follow Jane because Clem was so blind about Kenny being Carver 2.0, mainly because they had been friends for a while.
Which to me is one of the biggest problems with season 2. The most harsh thing you can have Clem feel towards Kenny for most of the season is cautious optimism or something.
Jane obviously wanted Clem to come with her, to make sure she stays safe and away from Kenny. If she would just reveal her plan, Clementine … morewouldnt care to follow Jane because Clem was so blind about Kenny being Carver 2.0, mainly because they had been friends for a while.
Those three are definitely the best friends to have in a survival situation. I would throw Omid in there, just for the sake of keeping people's spirits up, lol
Nothing to do with "love". Jane is more rational pick, since she is pretty much the best company to clem. Jane, Molly and Lee are the best p… moreossible friends to have, if you want to survive in such world.
Kenny is just an unstable mess who might hurt anyone for no proper reason.
"Just goes on trying to brainwash Clem into believing he's some evil person."
We all know that Kenny was evil person.
He wanted to kill B… moreen, didnt help Shawn, wanted to leave girl to experience horrible death instead of putting her out of misery, wanted to leave Lilly, Omid and Arvo behind, tries to kill Clems friend (Jane), proposes that they steal the supplies, which eventually cause the death of Lee, the stranger and his family and Ben. Plus he causes the death of Walter, is willing to let Alvin die, beats arvo hard in 2 different scenes for nothing. Thats some of the shit Kenny has pulled in last 2 seasons, and people still treat him as saint.
Nobody knows how to take care of a baby right away. You learn. I wont go into why Jane did what she did, thats been beaten to death, but I think they have just as good a chance of taking care of AJ as Kenny would have.
I think both endings where you leave with either Jane or Kenny are interesting and can reveal different sides of your Clem's personality. I … morepicked the ending with Kenny and when I think about it, it's probably a good thing for the baby because he knows how to take care of him. But Jane doesn't like babies and she wouldn't know how to take care of it and Clem is just a child so it might be difficult for her to take care of him all on her own (even in the alone ending). I also didn't like how Jane tries to convince Clem to abandon Kenny when he's not in the car, she wants Clem to betray someone.
Also my Clem never killed anyone, she didn't kill the stranger, she didn't shoot Lee, so I didn't want her to kill someone that isn't a walker.
She tells Clem she is 90% of the reason she came back, and she promises she'll never abandon her again. Those words were sincere, as sincere… more as Kenny apologizing to Clem in the camp fire scene.
More sincere if you ask me. Because Kenny just keeps doing what hes doing. He apologizes AFTER he does it but he just goes back to doing it. Jane stayed and she had more reason than anyone else. Especially after Luke died.
Now they're turning it around on us saying we only go against Kenny because its Kenny.
Nope. I have been very clear that I always liked Kenny. I simply couldn't stand there and let him become a killer.
IN this very thread they are claiming if the roles were reversed we'd find a way to justify what Jane did... Oh you mean like what you guys are now? I'm sorry I was under the impression MURDER WAS BAD. No apparently manipulation is 10x worse.
Guys! Kenny's a victim because Jane MADE him kill her!
And I'm here going I don't agree with what Jane did but Kenny lost his fucking mind! HE EVEN ADMITS IT BEFORE DYING!
How could I forget!
Kenny beats arvo 'lol thats just keny'
Kenny is racist 'haha oh keny we lov u'
Some people sound like they love… more literally everything he has done. That's just odd.
Like, the sensible ones acknowledge he has faults as much as I acknowledge he has positives. But for some people...he could murder the entire group and they wouldn't give a damn
And in Jane's ending we see where her heart truly lied. She respects Clem's call when it comes to letting the family in. Hell she lets the… more family in herself if you let the timer run out.
Whats interesting here is both Jane or Kenny endings show them in a good light. There is no right or wrong ending here.
I have a very big problem with what Jane did. I have made it very clear that I do not agree with what she did. It was stupid and pointless. Especially since I could see how crazy Kenny was becoming before that. But the game forces you to side with Kenny until that point. Jane made a stupid mistake. But I don't think she deserved to die for it. Kenny didn't deserve to die either but.
What she did was wrong but whatever you think of her Kenny was going to MURDER her.... How anyone can condone it is beyond me. No matter what their thoughts on Jane. The ability to get angry at someone and not even let them explain should raise a flag... shoultn't it?
I can 100% admit that Jane was in the wrong here. Can you say the same about Kenny? I doubt it.
That's the one thing j don't understand about all the people who don't have a problem with what Jane did. They're excusing it saying Kenny w… moreas insane, hot headed, violent and would get someone killed.
But that's everything Jane is this episode.
Plus she is manipulative. .. that one person can try to turn someone against someone else is something I despise in a person. It's one of the worst, most disgusting human traits I can think of. Why anyone can condone it is beyond me. No matter what their thoughts on Kenny. The ability to.lie and manipulate should raise a flag...shouldn't it?
Think back to the "Previously on..." at the start of the game. Carver says:
"Killing one in order to save many, is part of survival"
T… morehe difference between our characters, is Jane is of the same mindset as Carver, and why shouldnt she be. All the warning flags are there, shes part of Carvers group. She gets in and out all the time - OF A FORTRES LIKE COMPLEX. Shes seperated like shes a prisoner, but whos to say she isnt a mole? She a lone wolf with no ties. She abandons the group (whos to say she didnt go back to Howes to make a report to the 2ic?)
And at the end of the day, she is willing to sacrifice one, to save many.
Im glad shes dead
I really don't get how someone can murder Kenny after the 2 seasons that they have been with him. Kenny is like a father to Clementine how c… moreould you kill someone like that, who loves you and would do anything to protect you. Not to mention he was Lees best friend and devoted to raising AJ right!
That wasn't Kenny's "true nature" it was his breaking point! After which he returns to his normal self and shows how much he really cares about Clementine and AJ when he begs and cries for Wellington to take them in while he leaves on his own.
Troy had wronged her, though, seeing as he was one of the guys enforcing their imprisonment. So she's being consistent when she later says she never killed anyone that hadn't wronged her. And Troy had a gun trained on the whole group. She risked herself by approaching him while trying to distract him long enough to shoot him and let them escape.
Besides, never killed a real person? Troy. You could say she didn't finish him off, that's true. But she didn't finish off the Ruskie either, Kenny did.
Well i remember lee telling Kenny in season 1 episode 1, something along the lines of "when you look back, you wish you could have done diff… moreerently, but in the heat of the moment, you don't have a choice." I guess that's basically how it went with my pizza and ice cream choice.
Yup. Kenny was very eager to abandon people in season 1. Only reason he didn't leave everyone else at the motor inn was because the bandits attacked forcing them all to leave.
Its all relative. The Kenny apologist are saying I'm easily manipulated.
Zombie apocalypse, Real life... Murder is murder no matter the context. Carver doesn't get a free pass for murdering Reggie just because zombies exist in his world.
"Just goes on trying to brainwash Clem into believing he's some evil person."
We all know that Kenny was evil person.
He wanted to kill B… moreen, didnt help Shawn, wanted to leave girl to experience horrible death instead of putting her out of misery, wanted to leave Lilly, Omid and Arvo behind, tries to kill Clems friend (Jane), proposes that they steal the supplies, which eventually cause the death of Lee, the stranger and his family and Ben. Plus he causes the death of Walter, is willing to let Alvin die, beats arvo hard in 2 different scenes for nothing. Thats some of the shit Kenny has pulled in last 2 seasons, and people still treat him as saint.
What part of locking a newborn baby in a car that only you know the location to in the middle of nowhere in a snowstorm during a Zombie apocalypse, then proceeding to instigate a fight for no good reason which will probably end up with you being killed if you lose is not putting the baby in danger? Nothing about that is sensible and I like Jane, but Jesus...man.
Comments
TIL fighting someone who attacks you isn't self defense.
Nothing to do with "love". Jane is more rational pick, since she is pretty much the best company to clem. Jane, Molly and Lee are the best possible friends to have, if you want to survive in such world.
Kenny is just an unstable mess who might hurt anyone for no proper reason.
I think both endings where you leave with either Jane or Kenny are interesting and can reveal different sides of your Clem's personality. I picked the ending with Kenny and when I think about it, it's probably a good thing for the baby because he knows how to take care of him. But Jane doesn't like babies and she wouldn't know how to take care of it and Clem is just a child so it might be difficult for her to take care of him all on her own (even in the alone ending). I also didn't like how Jane tries to convince Clem to abandon Kenny when he's not in the car, she wants Clem to betray someone.
Also my Clem never killed anyone, she didn't kill the stranger, she didn't shoot Lee, so I didn't want her to kill someone that isn't a walker.
So what about the next person Kenny thinks might have caused harm to AJ? He either beats them to death or near death. But I guess that's Ok? Kenny is about what he thinks or your the enemy. At least Jane doesn't fly off the handle over mistakes or disagreements. The first thing she does when coming back is save Kenny's life from Russians shooting at him. Shen then continues to help as she saves Clem from drowning at the lake and not leaving like the others did. She could've just left them all.... And what does Kenny do? He assumed she murdered a baby MERELY because she didn't show up with him in her arms. He refuses to even hear her out even if Clem begs him to. Not someone I want anywhere near me in the ZA!
How could I forget!
Kenny beats arvo 'lol thats just keny'
Kenny is racist 'haha oh keny we lov u'
Some people sound like they love literally everything he has done. That's just odd.
Like, the sensible ones acknowledge he has faults as much as I acknowledge he has positives. But for some people...he could murder the entire group and they wouldn't give a damn
More sincere if you ask me. Because Kenny just keeps doing what hes doing. He apologizes AFTER he does it but he just goes back to doing it. Jane stayed and she had more reason than anyone else. Especially after Luke died.
And AJ stirs up memories of Duck for Kenny! He put every single loss into that baby.
And in Jane's ending we see where her heart truly lied. She respects Clem's call when it comes to letting the family in. Hell she lets the family in herself if you let the timer run out.
Whats interesting here is both Jane or Kenny endings show them in a good light. There is no right or wrong ending here.
Well i remember lee telling Kenny in season 1 episode 1, something along the lines of "when you look back, you wish you could have done differently, but in the heat of the moment, you don't have a choice." I guess that's basically how it went with my pizza and ice cream choice.
And thats somehow worse than Kenny wanting Duck 2.0.
Irony!
If the roles were reversed and it was Jane doing what Kenny did in because she thought the baby was dead every single one of you who condone Kenny would call him a saint for showing her true colors. Don't even try to deny it. Double standards what?
I've been one of the loudest anti Kenny people in this debate.
Currently replaying with a 100% siding with Kenny on everything.
Man I am so stubborn.
Jane obviously wanted Clem to come with her, to make sure she stays safe and away from Kenny. If she would just reveal her plan, Clementine wouldnt care to follow Jane because Clem was so blind about Kenny being Carver 2.0, mainly because they had been friends for a while.
OMG the hypocrisy! IT BURNS!
Only time I was against Kenny was this one time.
You lost all credibility with your ad-hominim attacks and calling people "sheeple"
Which to me is one of the biggest problems with season 2. The most harsh thing you can have Clem feel towards Kenny for most of the season is cautious optimism or something.
Those three are definitely the best friends to have in a survival situation. I would throw Omid in there, just for the sake of keeping people's spirits up, lol
Exactly... Jane "haters" have lost all credibility to me. They will always see Jane in a bad light, no matter what actually happens in the game.
God do you guys even read what you type?
the hypocrisy is pathetic.
I dont think he was evil, just way out of control.
And you're ok with murder? I'm not
See we can dance around this for eternity.
You guys cannot accept us having different opinions than you.
Nobody knows how to take care of a baby right away. You learn. I wont go into why Jane did what she did, thats been beaten to death, but I think they have just as good a chance of taking care of AJ as Kenny would have.
The baby wasn't in danger. Jane was not trying to hurt him.
Too sincere. She wants Clem and will have it no other way.
Now they're turning it around on us saying we only go against Kenny because its Kenny.
Nope. I have been very clear that I always liked Kenny. I simply couldn't stand there and let him become a killer.
IN this very thread they are claiming if the roles were reversed we'd find a way to justify what Jane did... Oh you mean like what you guys are now? I'm sorry I was under the impression MURDER WAS BAD. No apparently manipulation is 10x worse.
Guys! Kenny's a victim because Jane MADE him kill her!
And I'm here going I don't agree with what Jane did but Kenny lost his fucking mind! HE EVEN ADMITS IT BEFORE DYING!
Jane's ending didn't paint her negatively but it didn't do anything to alleviate the specific reservations I had about her character.
I have a very big problem with what Jane did. I have made it very clear that I do not agree with what she did. It was stupid and pointless. Especially since I could see how crazy Kenny was becoming before that. But the game forces you to side with Kenny until that point. Jane made a stupid mistake. But I don't think she deserved to die for it. Kenny didn't deserve to die either but.
What she did was wrong but whatever you think of her Kenny was going to MURDER her.... How anyone can condone it is beyond me. No matter what their thoughts on Jane. The ability to get angry at someone and not even let them explain should raise a flag... shoultn't it?
I can 100% admit that Jane was in the wrong here. Can you say the same about Kenny? I doubt it.
And... If you tell Kenny to back off he shoves you aside and says "No the time for talk is over I'm going to kill this bitch" he wants to kill Jane.
Its more like Kenny makes 100 mistakes and doesn't deserve to die. Jane makes one and deserves to die.
His actions even back in season 1 prove you wrong.
Acts like a mad man... talks like a mad man... Its ok its just Kenny!
Hides baby.
Defends herself from someone who automatically assumes she murdered baby
Yup makes sense. I guess Jane is just too stupid to just murder Kenny in his sleep and claim walkers got him.
That makes literally no fucking sense whatsoever.
She's a mole for a group of corpses?
Isn't it obvious?
Siding against Kenny makes you evil.
They're taking this shit way too seriously.... Its quite amusing honestly.
Easily. Disagree with him on anything at all ever and he sees Lee as someone who never helped him even if you spent the entire game helping him.
How easily Lee is replaced. Kenny is no father to my Clem.
Funny how he reached that "breaking point" a lot.
Troy had wronged her, though, seeing as he was one of the guys enforcing their imprisonment. So she's being consistent when she later says she never killed anyone that hadn't wronged her. And Troy had a gun trained on the whole group. She risked herself by approaching him while trying to distract him long enough to shoot him and let them escape.
I'm not sure what your point is.
YOU CHOSE PIZZA DIDN'T YOU!? YOU ICE CREAM HATER!!! jk
Yup. Kenny was very eager to abandon people in season 1. Only reason he didn't leave everyone else at the motor inn was because the bandits attacked forcing them all to leave.
Its all relative. The Kenny apologist are saying I'm easily manipulated.
Zombie apocalypse, Real life... Murder is murder no matter the context. Carver doesn't get a free pass for murdering Reggie just because zombies exist in his world.
Lets not forget he's clearly a racist.
The "urban" bit I could slide but all the "commie asshole" insults he threw at Arvo were very clear. People find it funny apparently.
Are you stupid?
What part of locking a newborn baby in a car that only you know the location to in the middle of nowhere in a snowstorm during a Zombie apocalypse, then proceeding to instigate a fight for no good reason which will probably end up with you being killed if you lose is not putting the baby in danger? Nothing about that is sensible and I like Jane, but Jesus...man.