You can be a dick to Sarah from the beginning, if you weren't a dick to her (and even made a pinky sear with her), then you just left her, that means you, your Clementine does not care about Sarah enough to risk her life in order to save her, not like other people (including me) who did.
That's the beauty in this game, you can be a coward survivor, or a heroic person that doesn't leave friends behind, yet it's still your opinion and your choices.
Maybe you did care about her, just not enough.
"Ben is my friend, we don't leave friends behind!"
Remember that? That's the true Clementine. That is proof that saving Sarah is the thing Clem would have really done, or at least the closest thing.
But dont you see, that goes against everything we already knew about Clem and Sarah. If she cared about her all this time before that decisi… moreon, how would she suddenly stop because "you are Clementine"? You dont leave Sarah because you dont care about her anymore than Jane left her sister because she didnt care about her. She clearly did care about her own sister because she had been trying to keep her alive for months up until that point. The sister gave up and Jane couldnt help her anymore. That does not equate to she didnt care.
Okay fine, even if Kenny was his father that gives him no absolute right to kill Jane over an accident. At least she was generous enough to carry the baby through the snow storm. I don't see Clem being able to carry a baby through the snow storm.
I still said Jane redeemed herself by getting Clem to safety, both of them redeemed themselves but Kenny's previous actions aren't forgettable nor forgivable.
Jane doesn't even have to redeem herself, I don't see how Jane showing Clem that her "friend" is actually a psycho murderer is a sin.
It's Kenny's baby, AJ's parents are dead, Kenny wanted to raise him and made sure he's safe in Wellington, you can safely say that Kenny is … morehis father, not biological, but still his father, his moral and parental figure that took care of him and made sure he won't die, living a safe life - his father.
You can't redeem yourself when the example you say is prior to what she did, the point of "redeeming" yourself is proving you can be someone or do something after you did the actions that require the proof.
And bringing her to a shelter isn't something that will redeem her actions in my opinion.
You're basically saying that Jane can redeem herself but Kenny cannot, you have no logic in what you say.
He DOES leave her. In fact, he runs off shouting "You had no right, Clementine! No fucking right!".
He shouts at her out of anger, runs off, and doesn't bother to check to see if she catches up or gets eaten by the heard. At this point Kenny was willing to leave an eleven year old girl to die in the heard, regardless of whether she was capable or not.
I understand that he goes insane and the situation was dire, but it still doesn't give him the right to make accusations and start murdering people because he can't control his emotions.
He didn't leave her.. She handled herself well, he knew she can handle herself, and he was worried about Sarita, if he was crazy like you sa… moreid, he would have killed Clementine for doing that to Sarita.
And you need to understand, he had every reason to go insane, Jane caused that and she didn't have to do it in order to prove something, there are other ways to prove it without getting yourself killed.
He wouldn't be calm, but he wouldn't violently murder Clementine either.
How do you know she has a gun?
Oh wait, you don't.
She would mercy kill her sister if she had a gun, she isn't selfish nor cruel to let her sister suffer.
You can't blame him for trying to kill her, he saw that what she did fits her twisted, selfish "survival of the fittest" personality and his justifiable rage made him want to kill her, totally fine.
Also the baby isn't even important anwyay.
I'm done, lol.
You'll just never come to terms with what I say, will you?
Someone switch up with me here, I'm done proving this guy that he is wearing blindfolds, I know the truth, it's enough for me anyway.
Live with your own beliefs, but don't be surprised if someone else leaves you speechless.
She didn't want to kill him at first, she took out her knife then put it back in. " I won't back down from you Kenny " She warned Kenny that… more she won't back down if he tries to kill her. Of course Mister Kenny doesn't care and is blinded by blood rage towards Jane. At that moment nothing matters to him except killing Jane.
You totally quoted Kenny here. Kenny trying to kill Kenny multiple times in season 1 was basically just like hurting Clem. Also him refusing to help Lee find Clem at the end of episode 4 ( Sure this is determinant, but who the hell let's a little girl suffer for the actions of someone else ) could've gotten Clem killed. Let's not forget he keeps putting Clem in danger ( Cough cough putting the radio in her jacket cough cough) and always fights with everyone causing the group to break up and causing Arvo to shoot Clem ( If Mike and Bonnie didn't escape in the first place Arvo wouldn't have gotten the gun ).
What do you … [view original content]
Well, even pushing her off that roof and stomping her head in is less painful than getting your flesh torn up as you slowly get eaten to dea… moreth.
she isn't selfish nor cruel to let her sister suffer.
But she is selfish, it fits her personality.
That's not betrayal, he did refuse to do that on my playthrough as well, but it is not betrayal, it's just called being an asshole, that's e… morexaggeration.
But still, you just have to know what to say to him, he's impulsive, his current emotions affect what he decides, you just need to get to him, it never meant he didn't care about either of them.
Lee was enraged. He was just as enraged as Lily was to Carly and just as enraged as Kenny was to Jane. If Lee's murder is an accident, then so is Kenny's. Both were pushed to the limit and both lost all reason.
Jane "killed" the baby accidentally (Wasn't even Kenny's baby)
It would still be her fault and if this was in real life she'd have a possibility of being locked up for neglect. His actions, especially considering he was a parent, are understandable, not justified, but understandable. AJ may not be his baby, but he treats him as if he was his own, this is also understandable and by no stretch of the imagination is it a bad thing in this scenario.
Finding supplies isn't an act of redemption, it's an act of survival that favours everyone. Putting other peoples personal needs high above your own, is a redeemable action.
Lee killed a man in a fight Accidentally, Jane "killed" the baby accidentally (Wasn't even Kenny's baby) and Kenny immediately accused her o… moref murdering him. He then immediately pinned her against a glass wall and choked her. Jane also redeems herself before by saving the group multiple times and in the end she does redeem herself by taking Clem to Howe's which has food, baby formula, safety. Just because he redeemed himself doesn't mean we can forget and forgive everything bad he did before.
Those 2 things don't even kill her sister. Pushing her off a roof doesn't kill her and instead lets her suffer more than getting eaten by walkers. She could get paralyzed and suffer broken bones which is painful as hell and she still won't be dead. Stomping her head in? As I said before her time was limited as to 10 seconds probably and stomping her head for 10 seconds doesn't do anything but make her suffer more.
But she is selfish, it fits her personality.
Oh right, coming back and saving Kenny from Vitali is so selfish. Running across a fragile frozen lake and pulling Clem from the cold ice water and then running back to the house and making a fire for Clem with HER nail file/matches is very selfish too, right? Because showing Clem that her friend is a psycho maniac that will kill anyone who accidentally kills the baby is selfish. The only one who is selfish here is Kenny with his magical bullshit plans.
Well, even pushing her off that roof and stomping her head in is less painful than getting your flesh torn up as you slowly get eaten to dea… moreth.
she isn't selfish nor cruel to let her sister suffer.
But she is selfish, it fits her personality.
You just misinterpret him, lol, that doesn't mean he left her behind, and even if he did he probably knew she can handle herself and just didn't have to stay there.
At this point Kenny was willing to leave an eleven year old girl to die in the heard, regardless of whether she was capable or not.
He gave up his spot in Wellington for her and the baby, that really corresponds with what you said.
it still doesn't give him the right to make accusations and start murdering people
It's suddenly "people"?
Lol, don't invent things up, it was only that bastard Jane, which he thought she killed a baby.
He DOES leave her. In fact, he runs off shouting "You had no right, Clementine! No fucking right!".
He shouts at her out of anger, runs o… moreff, and doesn't bother to check to see if she catches up or gets eaten by the heard. At this point Kenny was willing to leave an eleven year old girl to die in the heard, regardless of whether she was capable or not.
I understand that he goes insane and the situation was dire, but it still doesn't give him the right to make accusations and start murdering people because he can't control his emotions.
Ok sarciness, so you first ignore that Jane started the whole mess in the first place, ignore that Jane replies I knew you would when Kenny screams I fucking kill you, and then you come crying about moral ambiguity the second you face a logical argument you don´t even try to refute.
OK... you do know it's a game, right? It's a morally ambiguous game, there's not a clear right/wrong. There's emotional involvement and then there's... this.
She didn't come back for Kenny, she did for Clem, that's the only person she cared about in her life.
She would leave Clem just like she did to her sister if that situation happens again, what Kenny would never do, he would get eaten trying to save her, he's a selfless guardian, she's a selfish survivor.
Those 2 things don't even kill her sister. Pushing her off a roof doesn't kill her and instead lets her suffer more than getting eaten by wa… morelkers. She could get paralyzed and suffer broken bones which is painful as hell and she still won't be dead. Stomping her head in? As I said before her time was limited as to 10 seconds probably and stomping her head for 10 seconds doesn't do anything but make her suffer more.
But she is selfish, it fits her personality.
Oh right, coming back and saving Kenny from Vitali is so selfish. Running across a fragile frozen lake and pulling Clem from the cold ice water and then running back to the house and making a fire for Clem with HER nail file/matches is very selfish too, right? Because showing Clem that her friend is a psycho maniac that will kill anyone who accidentally kills the baby is selfish. The only one who is selfish here is Kenny with his magical bullshit plans.
How is seeing him run off without Clementine by his side in a walker heard misinterpreting him? If that isn't leaving Clementine behind, I don't know what is.
And as for the 'people' remark, I meant that in a figurative way, not literally. I apologise for confusing you.
You just misinterpret him, lol, that doesn't mean he left her behind, and even if he did he probably knew she can handle herself and just di… moredn't have to stay there.
At this point Kenny was willing to leave an eleven year old girl to die in the heard, regardless of whether she was capable or not.
He gave up his spot in Wellington for her and the baby, that really corresponds with what you said.
it still doesn't give him the right to make accusations and start murdering people
It's suddenly "people"?
Lol, don't invent things up, it was only that bastard Jane, which he thought she killed a baby.
Generous? That isn't the right word, the right word is human, and she didn't even manage to do that, she left him.
How? By the horrible sadistic way she does it, by manipulating Clem to kill the only man that loves her more than his own life and by proving a false point, because Kenny is not a psychopath.
Okay fine, even if Kenny was his father that gives him no absolute right to kill Jane over an accident. At least she was generous enough to … morecarry the baby through the snow storm. I don't see Clem being able to carry a baby through the snow storm.
I still said Jane redeemed herself by getting Clem to safety, both of them redeemed themselves but Kenny's previous actions aren't forgettable nor forgivable.
Jane doesn't even have to redeem herself, I don't see how Jane showing Clem that her "friend" is actually a psycho murderer is a sin.
... I can blame him for being unstable and blinded by blood rage. He didn't even know shit about her to judge her in the first place. I guess he forget that she came back from the group and the first thing she did was sticking a knife in someones throat to save Kenny.
But the baby isn't important, I don't see what you're trying to say here... I never said someone should kill the baby just that he isn't important and you shouldn't make everything about him.
All of you Kenny fans are the same
-Blinded by the truth
-Repeating points I have already addressed
-"Omg Jane is selfish HURRR DURR"
I don't see why you failing to accept the fact that Jane isn't selfish and Kenny is the one who is selfish. Oh right, Kenny redeemed himself at the end. Yeah let's all forget the fact that he got Clem shot by Arvo, he left Clem in the herd of walkers and blamed her for Saritas death, Gave her the radio against her will and could've gotten her head smashed in by Carver, the list just goes on and on and you seem to ignore the bad things Kenny has done.
You can't blame him for trying to kill her, he saw that what she did fits her twisted, selfish "survival of the fittest" personality and his… more justifiable rage made him want to kill her, totally fine.
Also the baby isn't even important anwyay.
I'm done, lol.
You'll just never come to terms with what I say, will you?
Someone switch up with me here, I'm done proving this guy that he is wearing blindfolds, I know the truth, it's enough for me anyway.
Live with your own beliefs, but don't be surprised if someone else leaves you speechless.
How is seeing him run off without Clementine by his side in a walker heard misinterpreting him? If that isn't leaving Clementine behind, I d… moreon't know what is.
And as for the 'people' remark, I meant that in a figurative way, not literally. I apologise for confusing you.
Lee was enraged but he killed the senator accidentally. Lilly didn't kill Carley accidentally, she pulled a gun at her head and shot her. Kenny didn't kill Jane accidentally, he chose to believe that she murdered the baby and didn't even try to listen to her, instead he decided to plunge a knife in her heart.
Don't see how this is her fault if she killed him accidentally, she wasn't neglect in any way. But her actions were understandable too, maybe not justified but understandable seeing as she did this for Clem's sake. He had no right to kill Jane, he didn't even try to talk to her " I'm done talkin Clem ".
What do you think Jane was doing when she started the plan? She decided to risk herself for Clem to reveal Kenny's true colors. I don't know why putting Clem in Wellington is a good idea seeing as they are a bunch of strangers and we know nothing about them. In the end, Clem is safer with Jane.
Lee was enraged. He was just as enraged as Lily was to Carly and just as enraged as Kenny was to Jane. If Lee's murder is an accident, then … moreso is Kenny's. Both were pushed to the limit and both lost all reason.
Jane "killed" the baby accidentally (Wasn't even Kenny's baby)
It would still be her fault and if this was in real life she'd have a possibility of being locked up for neglect. His actions, especially considering he was a parent, are understandable, not justified, but understandable. AJ may not be his baby, but he treats him as if he was his own, this is also understandable and by no stretch of the imagination is it a bad thing in this scenario.
Finding supplies isn't an act of redemption, it's an act of survival that favours everyone. Putting other peoples personal needs high above your own, is a redeemable action.
Ok, ErenCoral, since you are so fond of reposting, I am going to repost what I wrote too. Maybe this time you won´t back up halfway through, if you even brother to respond:
She got them out of Carver´s lair just because Telltale didn´t give us a dialogue choice to tell the group how we got out the Marshal´s House while the group was arguing about the risk of the plan.
You praise Jane for doing that for Troy while Kenny being brutal with Carver just mean´s he is insane.
You are right.
Don’t say she saved them so easily. If she had leaved the group, Clem could have saved them alone without needing Jane there. Also, she went with Clem to save just because they were important with Clem. That´s selfish. That she told Clem to come out only matters if you fail to get Sarah out her situation.
You are right there, too, but found it is a stretch. Is rather big and pretty close-the group could have found it themselves even if Jane wasn´t there.
Clem was only there because Jane had been late and the group send Clem to look for her.
Ok, that one is true.
The nail file thing is determinant.
She cares about the group enough to steal for Arvo because Clem does, nothing more.
You are right in that one.
Not all the ice was as fragile as the part Luke had the bad luck to step into; Jane didn´t risk shit by getting Clem out the water. She did risk herself by running, but not that much. Arvo ran for a good while and when the ice broke it was only a tiny hole. She did get Clem warm.
The second time she takes care of the baby is determinant, and if you didn´t mean the scene in which the baby pukes but the one when runs off with the baby near the rest stop and leaving Clem alone, then she did it just to leave him to possibly be bitten or freeze to death. That is not doing a good job.
She cruelly manipulates the feelings of a broken man, that is either a friend or a close person to Clem, to provoke him into a fight to death and get rid of him. That´s not the best for Clem, that is the best for her.
Howes is a really big place, defended by either two people or five depending on your last choice, one of which is just a kid nowhere near the abilities of Clem and there are enough clues to say that the family is shady at best. Also, bandits, the low number how supplies and the herd problems. Wellington is practically flawless compared to Howe’s.
She did nothing for the group, even if some of her actions ended up benefiting them. As for Clem, Kenny did far more. He claimed to have stolen the radio, risking being killed right in front of his wife, ended up losing an eye for Clem and the first think he says after waking up is that it was not her fault and she should not blame herself for it. Also, he stands up for her every time any character critics Clem and part of his motivation to fight Jane and kill her was because he was protecting her. If you let him kill Jane he explains his reason quite well, while if you save Jane she just puts some excuses and that she didn´t mean for things to end up like this when she plainly was aiming for it all the time. Also, he begs Edith to take Clem and AJ, basically condemning himself to death, just for them.
Jane:
* She got them out of Carvers lair, you all know how bad that place is and if they stayed any longer Carver could've killed anoth… moreer member, raped, tortured? So she basically saved some lives here
* She killed Troy while he had the group at gunpoint. Nobody else had a gun... Also she was smart enough to make Troy a dinnerbell ( Distraction ) to make their escape easier.
* She saved Rebecca and Clementine from the herd.
* She saved Sarah and Luke from the trailer park, nobody else would've gone out looking for them. She did wanna save Sarah but she knew Sarah wasn't gonna make it. Also when Clementine tries to get Sarah out she tells Clementine to come out because if she stays any longer she could've died with Sarah (She saves Clem 3 times now)
* She found the observation deck which saved a couple lives
* She protected Clem from Arvo, what if Jane wasn't there and Arvo saw Clem? Who knows what would've happend then.
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... She left him? She left him in a warm car that was close to them that was better for him than staying out in the snowstorm.
It was the only way she could do it. She didn't want to kill Kenny in the first place, Kenny started trying to kill her first then both of them were trying to kill eachother. Oh right, Kenny loves Clem more than his life himself? That's why he left her in a herd of walkers after she accidentally killed his girlfriend, that's why he wants to take a huge gamble and go to this Wellington place which could've been a rumor, that's why he can choose not to save Clem in episode 4 season 1 because of Lee's actions. He just wants a Duck 2.0.
Generous? That isn't the right word, the right word is human, and she didn't even manage to do that, she left him.
How? By the horrible s… moreadistic way she does it, by manipulating Clem to kill the only man that loves her more than his own life and by proving a false point, because Kenny is not a psychopath.
... She left him? She left him in a warm car that was close to them that was better for him than staying out in the snowstorm.
It was the… more only way she could do it. She didn't want to kill Kenny in the first place, Kenny started trying to kill her first then both of them were trying to kill eachother. Oh right, Kenny loves Clem more than his life himself? That's why he left her in a herd of walkers after she accidentally killed his girlfriend, that's why he wants to take a huge gamble and go to this Wellington place which could've been a rumor, that's why he can choose not to save Clem in episode 4 season 1 because of Lee's actions. He just wants a Duck 2.0.
I didn't say she came back for Kenny, I said the first thing she did when she came back was saving Kenny's life from Vitali.
Yeah sure, that's why she comes back to this broken group with an insane psychopath for Clem. She said it herself, she wouldn't need to save Clem if she were in Sarah's/Jaime's situation because she knows Clem isn't like Sarah/Jaime. The only reason why Jane left the group because she saw herself getting attached to Clem and she didn't want to see Clem die. I'm sorry but you got them mixed up, Kenny is the selfish survivor who loses hope whenever his loved ones die, Jane is the selfless hardcore survivor guardian who knows whats best for Clem.
She didn't come back for Kenny, she did for Clem, that's the only person she cared about in her life.
She would leave Clem just like she … moredid to her sister if that situation happens again, what Kenny would never do, he would get eaten trying to save her, he's a selfless guardian, she's a selfish survivor.
... I can blame him for being unstable and blinded by blood rage. He didn't even know shit about her to judge her in the first place. I gues… mores he forget that she came back from the group and the first thing she did was sticking a knife in someones throat to save Kenny.
But the baby isn't important, I don't see what you're trying to say here... I never said someone should kill the baby just that he isn't important and you shouldn't make everything about him.
All of you Kenny fans are the same
-Blinded by the truth
-Repeating points I have already addressed
-"Omg Jane is selfish HURRR DURR"
I don't see why you failing to accept the fact that Jane isn't selfish and Kenny is the one who is selfish. Oh right, Kenny redeemed himself at the end. Yeah let's all forget the fact that he got Clem shot by Arvo, he left Clem in the herd of walkers and blamed her for Saritas death, Gave her the radio against her will and could've gotten he… [view original content]
Ok sarciness, so you first ignore that Jane started the whole mess in the first place, ignore that Jane replies I knew you would when Kenny … morescreams I fucking kill you, and then you come crying about moral ambiguity the second you face a logical argument you don´t even try to refute.
I don’t know if I should laugh or cry.
He isn't a psychopath, no matter how much you'll say that, what he did is not out of the ordinary, killing someone who has a very ugly past and then tells you she killed "your" baby will make anyone want to kill her, especially after what he's lost.
If Jane is selfless, she wouldn't've left Sarah behind like she did, and there are tons of other examples like how she left her sister.
I didn't say she came back for Kenny, I said the first thing she did when she came back was saving Kenny's life from Vitali.
Yeah sure, t… morehat's why she comes back to this broken group with an insane psychopath for Clem. She said it herself, she wouldn't need to save Clem if she were in Sarah's/Jaime's situation because she knows Clem isn't like Sarah/Jaime. The only reason why Jane left the group because she saw herself getting attached to Clem and she didn't want to see Clem die. I'm sorry but you got them mixed up, Kenny is the selfish survivor who loses hope whenever his loved ones die, Jane is the selfless hardcore survivor guardian who knows whats best for Clem.
I mean, saying omg Kenny is crazy and dangerous so he deserves to be 'put down' while saying in the same post that leaving a baby to be bitten or freeze to death is totally fine by him is just unbelievable.
Lee was enraged but he killed the senator accidentally. Lilly didn't kill Carley accidentally, she pulled a gun at her head and shot her. Ke… morenny didn't kill Jane accidentally, he chose to believe that she murdered the baby and didn't even try to listen to her, instead he decided to plunge a knife in her heart.
Don't see how this is her fault if she killed him accidentally, she wasn't neglect in any way. But her actions were understandable too, maybe not justified but understandable seeing as she did this for Clem's sake. He had no right to kill Jane, he didn't even try to talk to her " I'm done talkin Clem ".
What do you think Jane was doing when she started the plan? She decided to risk herself for Clem to reveal Kenny's true colors. I don't know why putting Clem in Wellington is a good idea seeing as they are a bunch of strangers and we know nothing about them. In the end, Clem is safer with Jane.
Of course nobody can take this guy seriously.
I mean, saying omg Kenny is crazy and dangerous so he deserves to be 'put down' while sayin… moreg in the same post that leaving a baby to be bitten or freeze to death is totally fine by him is just unbelievable.
No... Kenny is just a murderer. And his boat is the deadliest weapon in the history of mankind. He lost to the power of Jane and Clementine's gun. And he's mistaken, to think of protecting Clementine.. Instead he is a crazy mass murderer. That's all there is. Nothing more.
You just admitted you have no ideas what those pills can do. Please also take into account Lilly was with her father multiple times during some attacks and her CPR was an effort to save his life. You ASSUME that his breathing was him turning, when in-fact he could've been very savable. Waiting for the pulse to go out could've been a nice alternative but Kenny escalated the situation. People CAN survive heart attacks without medical treatment. Don't go toting your lack of knowledge as fact.
Kenny himself ADMITS he feels guilty and could've done more to save Shaun. It's even mentioned on the Train in Episode 3 when Duck's dying. He faults himself for it. He didn't think 'Oh Lee can handle it'. He was literally a coward at that moment and recognizes it. He feels guilty in the drugstore too. It's part of his character, and he didn't brush it off as a responsibility to Lee. He could've set his kid down and helped, but didn't. His guilt over this is a driving part of his character, and saying this fault doesn't exist is bullshit.
Kenny's made tactical/pragmatic decisions before. Doesn't change the fact of how cruel it was. He was willing to let a woman suffer and scream, be murdered and ripped to shreds by Walker teeth just so you'd be able to grab more supplies. And nothing necessary/important either. Is one bullet and that box of Graham Crackers really worth your morals?
If you kill Larry and Ben there's still the possibility he won't come with you. You literally have to kiss his ass so he doesn't question going with you in the first place. He holds every event during his interaction with Lee as damning evidence if sided against. And the thing of it is, this isn't a thing about JUST Kenny's opinion of Lee. He's willingly letting a little girl be kidnapped and god knows what, without a damned care.
Train Fight. Statue in the Attic. Doesn't prop up the door when you're getting supplies at the Drugstore, and lets you deal with it (determinant). Let's you deal with Andy St. John alone and stays hidden, leaving Lilly to help you instead (determinant). Sends Lee to go rescue Clementine alone initially (determinant). There's probably more.
He did endanger the group by not acknowledging his son was dying. I don't FAULT him for this, but he did endanger them. If Lee can't convince Kenny, Duck does end up killing everyone.
Ben thought his friend was in-danger and if he hadn't made deals with the bandits, the camp could've potentially been raided sooner. They did have encounters in the past week with them when you remember the arrows and bullets in the Motor Inn fence. The fallout of what happened is horrible, and not what Ben intended to do. So I think this point is the weakest 'against' Kenny though in my opinion. I think alot of people would've done worse to Ben.
They could've waited at the car for a while, to see if there were survivors. Duck, Clementine, Carley/Doug, Lilly, and Lee can all express their distaste at the idea of the theft. Kenny and Katjaa are the only advocates for it. I think Ben is neutral or against too. And they didn't need to take everything either. Kind of similar to the Mike-Arvo scenario but only to the Stranger's Family.
Your bias against Lilly and her emotional plight of losing the only family figure she had left and could trust early into the apocalypse and how she's become unhinged by having to share her living space with her father's murderer(s) and the fact that even more people are untrustworthy and stealing supplies and causing everything to fall apart. She desperately wanted some sort of stability. She even raises a valid point too. Lee is a convicted murderer prior to zombie times when Kenny calls her a murderer. Yet Kenny can defend you and tell her to rot? After what he did to her dad? Not even dropping her off somewhere or sometime safer than middle of the night at nowhere? And most players left her because in the heat of the moment and with how vengeful people can be, considering she shot Carley/Doug.
His anger scared the group and put people in danger several times. If he could control his anger, we wouldn't have the Jane-Kenny conflict in the first place.
Kenny vs Carver isn't something I fault personally. He had no idea Carver would resort to a hostage scenario.
So you fault Clementine if she's tied up with the other hostages and doesn't run out, risking getting shot, so Kenny doesn't shoot again and risk the SECOND hostage? Cause Carver's ultimatum was really simple. Surrender or people die. Kenny learns it by the time someone he really cares for is at bat.
Carver didn't necessarily wrong humanity in such a way. Don't see your reasoning here to justify turning someone's skull into a bloody puddle. Carver's community wasn't necessarily evil, and I'm sure the 400 day characters if they were there were just living their lives. Also there was baby formula at the camp. Outside of Rebecca's child, there's the probability that there were other babies/children at the camp that got killed. And the Cabin Group did escape violently and usurp Carver's authority. I mean, Rebecca was doing announcements in Carver's office. I don't know if Carver was a rapist, because even if he taunts Rebecca with the idea she liked their sex, it doesn't necessarily imply rape. I think he was a somewhat bad man pushed very far and Clem's group saw the worst of him.
You can judge a grieving man. Especially if his actions are unwarranted. If you kill the Walker that bit Sarita he BLAMES you for her death. There's no logic in that.
Arvo didn't cause any deaths. His group was bad and escalated a situation. And trying to rob Clem's group is horrible. But he loses everything, and the worst that happened is some people got injured. I think they even said Arvo never shot at them. He was in a prime position to. Then he gets abused constantly, berated, beaten over the head with a gun determinantly, gets his face nearly caved in (Also I know a lot of people who will testify, getting punched in the face while wearing glasses hurts a hell of alot more than without.), and what did Arvo do? He brought them to his group's supplies without any trickery on his behalf. He was just a kid. And his abuse and suffering, and the fact he thought his CPR helped Natasha only for Clem to shoot her, made Clem look like some devil to him. And if you can't judge the actions of a fucking grieving man, you don't get to call Arvo a shitbird. Same goes for Lilly too.
He did that in order to prevent the guy's reanimation, and Larry clearly did die there, you can't just cure a heart attack with no medical e… morequipment, his lips also move since he had begun to reanimate, and not because he wanted to breath or talk or something, since it's impossible to save a guy with a past of heart problems from a (probably not first) heart attack, he needs his pills or a shockwave or whatever the fuck they do.
He saved his son first, and by then he thought Lee took care of it, and to be fair the options they gave you to help Shawn with were dumb (I mean come on, for fuck's sake why not just kill the two damn walkers?!), even though it was a little wrong yeah.
She was dead anyway, yeah it's not right to let her suffer I agree, but it's also necessary for their survival, she's dead either way, it's a common thing in TWD, Lee has very high morals that shouldn't be compared to others since it just isn't fair.
Not entire… [view original content]
She got them out of Carver´s lair just because Telltale didn´t give us a dialogue choice to tell the group how we got out the Marshal´s House while the group was arguing about the risk of the plan.
That's the point, they wanted to show that Jane is a hardcore survivalist who knows how to survive. Sure Clem knew it but what if she didn't? What if Clem wasn't there to tell them?
You praise Jane for doing that for Troy while Kenny being brutal with Carver just mean´s he is insane.
I praise her for being smart and using his death for a meaningful way to benefit the group. I don't see how Kenny beating on Carver's corpse helped the group but infact it only helped himself AKA selfish. He wasted the groups precious time which could've been used to escape faster aka preventing Carlos's death, Nick's death, Sarah's death and Rebecca's death.
You are right.
Don’t say she saved them so easily. If she had leaved the group, Clem could have saved them alone without needing Jane there. Also, she went with Clem to save just because they were important with Clem. That´s selfish. That she told Clem to come out only matters if you fail to get Sarah out her situation.
I don't see how Clem would've been smart enough to get rid of the walkers at the door. Plus Jane was the one who boosted Luke, Sarah and Clem to the roof because Luke's ribs were damaged. She went there to save them because they were important to Clem and that's selfish? Please explain how that is selfish in any way, she knew that Sarah wasn't going to make because she has seen it before ( She had the same situation with her sister ). She wanted to save Clem because she knew Clem was capable of making it while Sarah wasn't. Also please get a dictionary and learn what selfish means.
You are right there, too, but found it is a stretch. Is rather big and pretty close-the group could have found it themselves even if Jane wasn´t there.
Yeah but Jane was the only one capable of opening the locked door. Last time I checked nobody had the necessary items to unlock/break the lock.
Clem was only there because Jane had been late and the group send Clem to look for her.
... You do realize you could go first with Jane and still meet Arvo, right?
Ok, that one is true.
The nail file thing is determinant.
Even if you don't take the nail file, in episode 5 Jane creates the fire with her matches if you don't take the nail file.
She cares about the group enough to steal for Arvo because Clem does, nothing more.
I don't see what you are trying to say here. Jane tells Clem to take the medicine from Arvo for the sake of the group.
You are right in that one.
Not all the ice was as fragile as the part Luke had the bad luck to step into; Jane didn´t risk shit by getting Clem out the water. She did risk herself by running, but not that much. Arvo ran for a good while and when the ice broke it was only a tiny hole. She did get Clem warm.
You obviously have never walked on an ice lake. It was fragile and when Jane pulled Clem out of the water she was standing on the edge of the hole and she picked Clem which increased her weight thus making it more risky. Arvo didn't even run for long... Jane ran across the lake 2 times one going back for Clem and the other going to the house.
The second time she takes care of the baby is determinant, and if you didn´t mean the scene in which the baby pukes but the one when runs off with the baby near the rest stop and leaving Clem alone, then she did it just to leave him to possibly be bitten or freeze to death. That is not doing a good job.
She actually takes care of it three times which are not determinant, one at the house when Kenny tells Clem to help him fix the truck, second in the car, third she takes the baby out of the car and into the snowstorm basically risking her life to the max. You can see she was holding the baby in 2 hands and the walkers were getting her. Also she didn't leave the baby out in the cold, she left him in a closed car that was warm and it was close to them. Plus the car had that black thingy on the window that makes the window opaque from the outside and translucent from the inside.
She cruelly manipulates the feelings of a broken man, that is either a friend or a close person to Clem, to provoke him into a fight to death and get rid of him. That´s not the best for Clem, that is the best for her.
Thanks for agreeing that he is a broken man, in that moment all we know is that she accidentally killed the baby and Kenny automatically assumes she murdered the baby. She didn't try to provoke him into a fight but all she wanted to do was to make Clem see Kenny's true colors. She didn't try to kill him right until Kenny started choking her. It is what's best for Clem.
Howes is a really big place, defended by either two people or five depending on your last choice, one of which is just a kid nowhere near the abilities of Clem and there are enough clues to say that the family is shady at best. Also, bandits, the low number how supplies and the herd problems. Wellington is practically flawless compared to Howe’s.
But Howe's isn't a temporary solution for them, and they can make it better. Sure the supplies were low but if you forgot Clem is with a hardcore survivalist that has been surviving on her own after her sister died. Wellington is a bell that attracts everything from walkers to bandits. The walls are huge but they trap snow inside which is a con. The more people there are the more dangerous it is because if 1 person dies in Wellington then it causes this chain reaction where 1 person bites multiple people then those people turn into walkers and they bite other people and so on. The food supply in Wellington could finish you know... Plus where are they going to get baby formula from? Atleast Howes has baby formula and we know it does.
She did nothing for the group, even if some of her actions ended up benefiting them. As for Clem, Kenny did far more. He claimed to have stolen the radio, risking being killed right in front of his wife, ended up losing an eye for Clem and the first think he says after waking up is that it was not her fault and she should not blame herself for it. Also, he stands up for her every time any character critics Clem and part of his motivation to fight Jane and kill her was because he was protecting her. If you let him kill Jane he explains his reason quite well, while if you save Jane she just puts some excuses and that she didn´t mean for things to end up like this when she plainly was aiming for it all the time. Also, he begs Edith to take Clem and AJ, basically condemning himself to death, just for them.
... You obviously have not read my post. Jane saves Kenny, saves Clem multiple times, saves the group multiple times, helped them get out Carvers lair, Helps Clem get out of the zombie herd when Kenny left her and much more. Kenny was the one who put the radio in Clems jacket so he sure as hell should've taken the blame since he was the one who put the idea in Clems jacket. He loses an eye for Clem and doesn't blame her? Yeah and when she kills Sarita accidentally he puts all the fucking blame on her. Jane never ever blamed Clem for anything. He doesn't stand for her everytime, if you choose to disagree with him he gets angry at you. You got some stuff mixed up in here, if you save Kenny he is the one who puts a bunch of excuses and bullshit lies. Jane is the one who says the truth. Sure, he begs Edith to take Clem and AJ because he knows he is instable and doesn't trust himself to take care of Clem so basically he finally admits that he is a problem.
Also I replied to you on another thread, why are you putting this here again?
Ok, ErenCoral, since you are so fond of reposting, I am going to repost what I wrote too. Maybe this time you won´t back up halfway through,… more if you even brother to respond:
* She got them out of Carver´s lair just because Telltale didn´t give us a dialogue choice to tell the group how we got out the Marshal´s House while the group was arguing about the risk of the plan.
* You praise Jane for doing that for Troy while Kenny being brutal with Carver just mean´s he is insane.
* You are right.
* Don’t say she saved them so easily. If she had leaved the group, Clem could have saved them alone without needing Jane there. Also, she went with Clem to save just because they were important with Clem. That´s selfish. That she told Clem to come out only matters if you fail to get Sarah out her situation.
* You are right there, too, but found it is a stretch. Is rather big and pretty close-the group could have found it themselves even if Jane was… [view original content]
You just admitted you have no ideas what those pills can do. Please also take into account Lilly was with her father multiple times during s… moreome attacks and her CPR was an effort to save his life. You ASSUME that his breathing was him turning, when in-fact he could've been very savable. Waiting for the pulse to go out could've been a nice alternative but Kenny escalated the situation. People CAN survive heart attacks without medical treatment. Don't go toting your lack of knowledge as fact.
Kenny himself ADMITS he feels guilty and could've done more to save Shaun. It's even mentioned on the Train in Episode 3 when Duck's dying. He faults himself for it. He didn't think 'Oh Lee can handle it'. He was literally a coward at that moment and recognizes it. He feels guilty in the drugstore too. It's part of his character, and he didn't brush it off as a responsibility to Lee. He could've set his kid down and helped, but didn't. His guilt over thi… [view original content]
No... Kenny is just a murderer. And his boat is the deadliest weapon in the history of mankind. He lost to the power of Jane and Clementine'… mores gun. And he's mistaken, to think of protecting Clementine.. Instead he is a crazy mass murderer. That's all there is. Nothing more.
Comments
It all depends on your choices.
You can be a dick to Sarah from the beginning, if you weren't a dick to her (and even made a pinky sear with her), then you just left her, that means you, your Clementine does not care about Sarah enough to risk her life in order to save her, not like other people (including me) who did.
That's the beauty in this game, you can be a coward survivor, or a heroic person that doesn't leave friends behind, yet it's still your opinion and your choices.
Maybe you did care about her, just not enough.
"Ben is my friend, we don't leave friends behind!"
Remember that? That's the true Clementine. That is proof that saving Sarah is the thing Clem would have really done, or at least the closest thing.
Okay fine, even if Kenny was his father that gives him no absolute right to kill Jane over an accident. At least she was generous enough to carry the baby through the snow storm. I don't see Clem being able to carry a baby through the snow storm.
I still said Jane redeemed herself by getting Clem to safety, both of them redeemed themselves but Kenny's previous actions aren't forgettable nor forgivable.
Jane doesn't even have to redeem herself, I don't see how Jane showing Clem that her "friend" is actually a psycho murderer is a sin.
He DOES leave her. In fact, he runs off shouting "You had no right, Clementine! No fucking right!".
He shouts at her out of anger, runs off, and doesn't bother to check to see if she catches up or gets eaten by the heard. At this point Kenny was willing to leave an eleven year old girl to die in the heard, regardless of whether she was capable or not.
I understand that he goes insane and the situation was dire, but it still doesn't give him the right to make accusations and start murdering people because he can't control his emotions.
Well, even pushing her off that roof and stomping her head in is less painful than getting your flesh torn up as you slowly get eaten to death.
But she is selfish, it fits her personality.
You can't blame him for trying to kill her, he saw that what she did fits her twisted, selfish "survival of the fittest" personality and his justifiable rage made him want to kill her, totally fine.
I'm done, lol.
You'll just never come to terms with what I say, will you?
Someone switch up with me here, I'm done proving this guy that he is wearing blindfolds, I know the truth, it's enough for me anyway.
Live with your own beliefs, but don't be surprised if someone else leaves you speechless.
Kenny said that Ben's biggest fear was being eaten alive by zombies, so he wasted the last bullet for him..
That's because he cares.
You cant tell me I didnt feel betrayed by that, but this is the reaction I expected.
Lee was enraged. He was just as enraged as Lily was to Carly and just as enraged as Kenny was to Jane. If Lee's murder is an accident, then so is Kenny's. Both were pushed to the limit and both lost all reason.
It would still be her fault and if this was in real life she'd have a possibility of being locked up for neglect. His actions, especially considering he was a parent, are understandable, not justified, but understandable. AJ may not be his baby, but he treats him as if he was his own, this is also understandable and by no stretch of the imagination is it a bad thing in this scenario.
Finding supplies isn't an act of redemption, it's an act of survival that favours everyone. Putting other peoples personal needs high above your own, is a redeemable action.
Those 2 things don't even kill her sister. Pushing her off a roof doesn't kill her and instead lets her suffer more than getting eaten by walkers. She could get paralyzed and suffer broken bones which is painful as hell and she still won't be dead. Stomping her head in? As I said before her time was limited as to 10 seconds probably and stomping her head for 10 seconds doesn't do anything but make her suffer more.
Oh right, coming back and saving Kenny from Vitali is so selfish. Running across a fragile frozen lake and pulling Clem from the cold ice water and then running back to the house and making a fire for Clem with HER nail file/matches is very selfish too, right? Because showing Clem that her friend is a psycho maniac that will kill anyone who accidentally kills the baby is selfish. The only one who is selfish here is Kenny with his magical bullshit plans.
You just misinterpret him, lol, that doesn't mean he left her behind, and even if he did he probably knew she can handle herself and just didn't have to stay there.
He gave up his spot in Wellington for her and the baby, that really corresponds with what you said.
It's suddenly "people"?
Lol, don't invent things up, it was only that bastard Jane, which he thought she killed a baby.
Ok sarciness, so you first ignore that Jane started the whole mess in the first place, ignore that Jane replies I knew you would when Kenny screams I fucking kill you, and then you come crying about moral ambiguity the second you face a logical argument you don´t even try to refute.
I don’t know if I should laugh or cry.
She didn't come back for Kenny, she did for Clem, that's the only person she cared about in her life.
She would leave Clem just like she did to her sister if that situation happens again, what Kenny would never do, he would get eaten trying to save her, he's a selfless guardian, she's a selfish survivor.
The Kenny haters are truly disgusting people...
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How is seeing him run off without Clementine by his side in a walker heard misinterpreting him? If that isn't leaving Clementine behind, I don't know what is.
And as for the 'people' remark, I meant that in a figurative way, not literally. I apologise for confusing you.
Generous? That isn't the right word, the right word is human, and she didn't even manage to do that, she left him.
How? By the horrible sadistic way she does it, by manipulating Clem to kill the only man that loves her more than his own life and by proving a false point, because Kenny is not a psychopath.
... I can blame him for being unstable and blinded by blood rage. He didn't even know shit about her to judge her in the first place. I guess he forget that she came back from the group and the first thing she did was sticking a knife in someones throat to save Kenny.
But the baby isn't important, I don't see what you're trying to say here... I never said someone should kill the baby just that he isn't important and you shouldn't make everything about him.
All of you Kenny fans are the same
-Blinded by the truth
-Repeating points I have already addressed
-"Omg Jane is selfish HURRR DURR"
I don't see why you failing to accept the fact that Jane isn't selfish and Kenny is the one who is selfish. Oh right, Kenny redeemed himself at the end. Yeah let's all forget the fact that he got Clem shot by Arvo, he left Clem in the herd of walkers and blamed her for Saritas death, Gave her the radio against her will and could've gotten her head smashed in by Carver, the list just goes on and on and you seem to ignore the bad things Kenny has done.
As I said, his actions in the Wellington ending disprove his will to leave Clem behind.
I wouldn't say that, but they clearly are wearing tight blindfolds and won't remove them.
But I agree with you on this case.
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Lee was enraged but he killed the senator accidentally. Lilly didn't kill Carley accidentally, she pulled a gun at her head and shot her. Kenny didn't kill Jane accidentally, he chose to believe that she murdered the baby and didn't even try to listen to her, instead he decided to plunge a knife in her heart.
Don't see how this is her fault if she killed him accidentally, she wasn't neglect in any way. But her actions were understandable too, maybe not justified but understandable seeing as she did this for Clem's sake. He had no right to kill Jane, he didn't even try to talk to her " I'm done talkin Clem ".
What do you think Jane was doing when she started the plan? She decided to risk herself for Clem to reveal Kenny's true colors. I don't know why putting Clem in Wellington is a good idea seeing as they are a bunch of strangers and we know nothing about them. In the end, Clem is safer with Jane.
Ok, ErenCoral, since you are so fond of reposting, I am going to repost what I wrote too. Maybe this time you won´t back up halfway through, if you even brother to respond:
The second time she takes care of the baby is determinant, and if you didn´t mean the scene in which the baby pukes but the one when runs off with the baby near the rest stop and leaving Clem alone, then she did it just to leave him to possibly be bitten or freeze to death. That is not doing a good job.
She cruelly manipulates the feelings of a broken man, that is either a friend or a close person to Clem, to provoke him into a fight to death and get rid of him. That´s not the best for Clem, that is the best for her.
Howes is a really big place, defended by either two people or five depending on your last choice, one of which is just a kid nowhere near the abilities of Clem and there are enough clues to say that the family is shady at best. Also, bandits, the low number how supplies and the herd problems. Wellington is practically flawless compared to Howe’s.
She did nothing for the group, even if some of her actions ended up benefiting them. As for Clem, Kenny did far more. He claimed to have stolen the radio, risking being killed right in front of his wife, ended up losing an eye for Clem and the first think he says after waking up is that it was not her fault and she should not blame herself for it. Also, he stands up for her every time any character critics Clem and part of his motivation to fight Jane and kill her was because he was protecting her. If you let him kill Jane he explains his reason quite well, while if you save Jane she just puts some excuses and that she didn´t mean for things to end up like this when she plainly was aiming for it all the time. Also, he begs Edith to take Clem and AJ, basically condemning himself to death, just for them.
... She left him? She left him in a warm car that was close to them that was better for him than staying out in the snowstorm.
It was the only way she could do it. She didn't want to kill Kenny in the first place, Kenny started trying to kill her first then both of them were trying to kill eachother. Oh right, Kenny loves Clem more than his life himself? That's why he left her in a herd of walkers after she accidentally killed his girlfriend, that's why he wants to take a huge gamble and go to this Wellington place which could've been a rumor, that's why he can choose not to save Clem in episode 4 season 1 because of Lee's actions. He just wants a Duck 2.0.
Or maybe you just don't like to hear the truth
Leaving babies in cars... Because that had never been a bad thing..
Sigh... He didn't intentionally leave her to die, that's just how you look at it because you hate Kenny "the psychopath".
Duck 2.0? You just hate him for no reason right now, this isn't making any sense, you can try and talk people into it, but it just won't make sense.
I didn't say she came back for Kenny, I said the first thing she did when she came back was saving Kenny's life from Vitali.
Yeah sure, that's why she comes back to this broken group with an insane psychopath for Clem. She said it herself, she wouldn't need to save Clem if she were in Sarah's/Jaime's situation because she knows Clem isn't like Sarah/Jaime. The only reason why Jane left the group because she saw herself getting attached to Clem and she didn't want to see Clem die. I'm sorry but you got them mixed up, Kenny is the selfish survivor who loses hope whenever his loved ones die, Jane is the selfless hardcore survivor guardian who knows whats best for Clem.
"expecting lots of down votes" when were you last on these forums
Anyone taking this guy seriously right now?
I know, right?
He isn't a psychopath, no matter how much you'll say that, what he did is not out of the ordinary, killing someone who has a very ugly past and then tells you she killed "your" baby will make anyone want to kill her, especially after what he's lost.
If Jane is selfless, she wouldn't've left Sarah behind like she did, and there are tons of other examples like how she left her sister.
lol
Of course nobody can take this guy seriously.
I mean, saying omg Kenny is crazy and dangerous so he deserves to be 'put down' while saying in the same post that leaving a baby to be bitten or freeze to death is totally fine by him is just unbelievable.
That's your opinion, and you'll see that you turn out to be wrong if there is any continuation to her story.
Good to know some people didn't abandon all logic.
No... Kenny is just a murderer. And his boat is the deadliest weapon in the history of mankind. He lost to the power of Jane and Clementine's gun. And he's mistaken, to think of protecting Clementine.. Instead he is a crazy mass murderer. That's all there is. Nothing more.
You just admitted you have no ideas what those pills can do. Please also take into account Lilly was with her father multiple times during some attacks and her CPR was an effort to save his life. You ASSUME that his breathing was him turning, when in-fact he could've been very savable. Waiting for the pulse to go out could've been a nice alternative but Kenny escalated the situation. People CAN survive heart attacks without medical treatment. Don't go toting your lack of knowledge as fact.
Kenny himself ADMITS he feels guilty and could've done more to save Shaun. It's even mentioned on the Train in Episode 3 when Duck's dying. He faults himself for it. He didn't think 'Oh Lee can handle it'. He was literally a coward at that moment and recognizes it. He feels guilty in the drugstore too. It's part of his character, and he didn't brush it off as a responsibility to Lee. He could've set his kid down and helped, but didn't. His guilt over this is a driving part of his character, and saying this fault doesn't exist is bullshit.
Kenny's made tactical/pragmatic decisions before. Doesn't change the fact of how cruel it was. He was willing to let a woman suffer and scream, be murdered and ripped to shreds by Walker teeth just so you'd be able to grab more supplies. And nothing necessary/important either. Is one bullet and that box of Graham Crackers really worth your morals?
If you kill Larry and Ben there's still the possibility he won't come with you. You literally have to kiss his ass so he doesn't question going with you in the first place. He holds every event during his interaction with Lee as damning evidence if sided against. And the thing of it is, this isn't a thing about JUST Kenny's opinion of Lee. He's willingly letting a little girl be kidnapped and god knows what, without a damned care.
Train Fight. Statue in the Attic. Doesn't prop up the door when you're getting supplies at the Drugstore, and lets you deal with it (determinant). Let's you deal with Andy St. John alone and stays hidden, leaving Lilly to help you instead (determinant). Sends Lee to go rescue Clementine alone initially (determinant). There's probably more.
He did endanger the group by not acknowledging his son was dying. I don't FAULT him for this, but he did endanger them. If Lee can't convince Kenny, Duck does end up killing everyone.
Ben thought his friend was in-danger and if he hadn't made deals with the bandits, the camp could've potentially been raided sooner. They did have encounters in the past week with them when you remember the arrows and bullets in the Motor Inn fence. The fallout of what happened is horrible, and not what Ben intended to do. So I think this point is the weakest 'against' Kenny though in my opinion. I think alot of people would've done worse to Ben.
They could've waited at the car for a while, to see if there were survivors. Duck, Clementine, Carley/Doug, Lilly, and Lee can all express their distaste at the idea of the theft. Kenny and Katjaa are the only advocates for it. I think Ben is neutral or against too. And they didn't need to take everything either. Kind of similar to the Mike-Arvo scenario but only to the Stranger's Family.
Your bias against Lilly and her emotional plight of losing the only family figure she had left and could trust early into the apocalypse and how she's become unhinged by having to share her living space with her father's murderer(s) and the fact that even more people are untrustworthy and stealing supplies and causing everything to fall apart. She desperately wanted some sort of stability. She even raises a valid point too. Lee is a convicted murderer prior to zombie times when Kenny calls her a murderer. Yet Kenny can defend you and tell her to rot? After what he did to her dad? Not even dropping her off somewhere or sometime safer than middle of the night at nowhere? And most players left her because in the heat of the moment and with how vengeful people can be, considering she shot Carley/Doug.
His anger scared the group and put people in danger several times. If he could control his anger, we wouldn't have the Jane-Kenny conflict in the first place.
Kenny vs Carver isn't something I fault personally. He had no idea Carver would resort to a hostage scenario.
So you fault Clementine if she's tied up with the other hostages and doesn't run out, risking getting shot, so Kenny doesn't shoot again and risk the SECOND hostage? Cause Carver's ultimatum was really simple. Surrender or people die. Kenny learns it by the time someone he really cares for is at bat.
Carver didn't necessarily wrong humanity in such a way. Don't see your reasoning here to justify turning someone's skull into a bloody puddle. Carver's community wasn't necessarily evil, and I'm sure the 400 day characters if they were there were just living their lives. Also there was baby formula at the camp. Outside of Rebecca's child, there's the probability that there were other babies/children at the camp that got killed. And the Cabin Group did escape violently and usurp Carver's authority. I mean, Rebecca was doing announcements in Carver's office. I don't know if Carver was a rapist, because even if he taunts Rebecca with the idea she liked their sex, it doesn't necessarily imply rape. I think he was a somewhat bad man pushed very far and Clem's group saw the worst of him.
You can judge a grieving man. Especially if his actions are unwarranted. If you kill the Walker that bit Sarita he BLAMES you for her death. There's no logic in that.
Arvo didn't cause any deaths. His group was bad and escalated a situation. And trying to rob Clem's group is horrible. But he loses everything, and the worst that happened is some people got injured. I think they even said Arvo never shot at them. He was in a prime position to. Then he gets abused constantly, berated, beaten over the head with a gun determinantly, gets his face nearly caved in (Also I know a lot of people who will testify, getting punched in the face while wearing glasses hurts a hell of alot more than without.), and what did Arvo do? He brought them to his group's supplies without any trickery on his behalf. He was just a kid. And his abuse and suffering, and the fact he thought his CPR helped Natasha only for Clem to shoot her, made Clem look like some devil to him. And if you can't judge the actions of a fucking grieving man, you don't get to call Arvo a shitbird. Same goes for Lilly too.
Bleh.
That's the point, they wanted to show that Jane is a hardcore survivalist who knows how to survive. Sure Clem knew it but what if she didn't? What if Clem wasn't there to tell them?
I praise her for being smart and using his death for a meaningful way to benefit the group. I don't see how Kenny beating on Carver's corpse helped the group but infact it only helped himself AKA selfish. He wasted the groups precious time which could've been used to escape faster aka preventing Carlos's death, Nick's death, Sarah's death and Rebecca's death.
I don't see how Clem would've been smart enough to get rid of the walkers at the door. Plus Jane was the one who boosted Luke, Sarah and Clem to the roof because Luke's ribs were damaged. She went there to save them because they were important to Clem and that's selfish? Please explain how that is selfish in any way, she knew that Sarah wasn't going to make because she has seen it before ( She had the same situation with her sister ). She wanted to save Clem because she knew Clem was capable of making it while Sarah wasn't. Also please get a dictionary and learn what selfish means.
Yeah but Jane was the only one capable of opening the locked door. Last time I checked nobody had the necessary items to unlock/break the lock.
... You do realize you could go first with Jane and still meet Arvo, right?
Even if you don't take the nail file, in episode 5 Jane creates the fire with her matches if you don't take the nail file.
I don't see what you are trying to say here. Jane tells Clem to take the medicine from Arvo for the sake of the group.
You obviously have never walked on an ice lake. It was fragile and when Jane pulled Clem out of the water she was standing on the edge of the hole and she picked Clem which increased her weight thus making it more risky. Arvo didn't even run for long... Jane ran across the lake 2 times one going back for Clem and the other going to the house.
She actually takes care of it three times which are not determinant, one at the house when Kenny tells Clem to help him fix the truck, second in the car, third she takes the baby out of the car and into the snowstorm basically risking her life to the max. You can see she was holding the baby in 2 hands and the walkers were getting her. Also she didn't leave the baby out in the cold, she left him in a closed car that was warm and it was close to them. Plus the car had that black thingy on the window that makes the window opaque from the outside and translucent from the inside.
Thanks for agreeing that he is a broken man, in that moment all we know is that she accidentally killed the baby and Kenny automatically assumes she murdered the baby. She didn't try to provoke him into a fight but all she wanted to do was to make Clem see Kenny's true colors. She didn't try to kill him right until Kenny started choking her. It is what's best for Clem.
But Howe's isn't a temporary solution for them, and they can make it better. Sure the supplies were low but if you forgot Clem is with a hardcore survivalist that has been surviving on her own after her sister died. Wellington is a bell that attracts everything from walkers to bandits. The walls are huge but they trap snow inside which is a con. The more people there are the more dangerous it is because if 1 person dies in Wellington then it causes this chain reaction where 1 person bites multiple people then those people turn into walkers and they bite other people and so on. The food supply in Wellington could finish you know... Plus where are they going to get baby formula from? Atleast Howes has baby formula and we know it does.
... You obviously have not read my post. Jane saves Kenny, saves Clem multiple times, saves the group multiple times, helped them get out Carvers lair, Helps Clem get out of the zombie herd when Kenny left her and much more. Kenny was the one who put the radio in Clems jacket so he sure as hell should've taken the blame since he was the one who put the idea in Clems jacket. He loses an eye for Clem and doesn't blame her? Yeah and when she kills Sarita accidentally he puts all the fucking blame on her. Jane never ever blamed Clem for anything. He doesn't stand for her everytime, if you choose to disagree with him he gets angry at you. You got some stuff mixed up in here, if you save Kenny he is the one who puts a bunch of excuses and bullshit lies. Jane is the one who says the truth. Sure, he begs Edith to take Clem and AJ because he knows he is instable and doesn't trust himself to take care of Clem so basically he finally admits that he is a problem.
Also I replied to you on another thread, why are you putting this here again?
Oh my god... I'm not reading this, sorry, too long for my tiny dumb brain, you win ok?
Just kidding, I know I can reply but too fucking tired.
FANGIRLING INTENSIFIES
I wonder if I'm the only one who got this epic reference.