I did the same I chose to go with Jane you know why because she has proven to have my back multiple times....plus I was tired of having to talk to Kenny, tired of having to calm him down, tired of having to apologize all the time to him. Kenny was in the same situation as everyone else he lost people, he was trying to survive, he was full of to many regrets and he was starting to break. I wish there would have been an option to leave Kenny and the baby. Maybe Jane is a crazy woman who will let me down (if she does she'll suffer the same fate as Kenny did) maybe not the option I wish I really had at the end was leave the baby in the car I see nothing but a liability in AJ. Also before anyone ask yeah I would leave the kid and never think twice survival is the goal for my Clementine and Jane is the best avenue to it that I saw. Hopefully the family that shows up at the end will take AJ and leave without me having to kill all of them.
I get what your saying but a person can still change. Especially during the 16 months she was with Christa. I do agree that its more logical, just not set in stone.
As I said, season 1 isn't determinant, even if you are being an "evil" Clementine, some values stick to you and are bold since a young age, … morethere is not true version of Clementine, but some are more rational that others, and according to Season one, it is more logical for her to be a good person, as she said that you just do not leave friends behind in episode 4.
It's more like you can choose to tell him which person you hurt and it doesn't exactly mean that the other options you didn't choose aren't true. It is a personal part of his past, so if he doesn't say, it's because he doesn't feel like talking about it. You can hear it in his voice, he feels like the murder wouldn't even have happened if he had been a better husband. When Lee tells the Stranger he hurt his wife, he asks him how, and Lee can either explain or respond with indignation.
Prematurely? A lot of people much younger than him have died already. I don think it's incorrect at all based on his behavior all through two seasons. And the reason for killing him, was not, in my case, unethical. I did it stop him from murdering someone else.
This reasoning describes what some people think is why Kenny acts the way he does. The same people also think it would be better for Kenny t… moreo die prematurely based on this reasoning. The reasoning does explain in simple, understandable terms; however, it is incorrect. And in addition, the consensus reached from that reasoning is wrong. Not in the sense that it's incorrect, but unethical.
Sadly I have to say that if I were Jane I would've done what she did, Jane took a great risk to try to make the situation work. If Jane didn't care about Clementine, she could've just gone back to Howe's with the baby, or even just ditched everyone. Whereas Kenny wanted what Kenny wanted; he didn't care about working it out with other people; he could never ever hear any disagreements to his own opinion. Even though Jane knew Kenny would break at any moment, she came back to convince Clementine that staying with Kenny was not going to work. It was manipulative, I agree, but what she proved was indisputable: Kenny was capable of murdering in anger. The man was self destructive at that point.
Let's face it, they were both good people and didn't deserve to die, but Jane was coolheaded, and Kenny was always the exact opposite. I just couldn't find fault in Jane's coolheadedness, I understood her rationales completely. Jane was also capable of change, shown by her coming back the group, but Kenny is always on the edge of something terrible. I actually highly doubt people in real life would've made the decision to stick with Kenny instead of Jane. It's easy to be loyal to a character in front of a computer.
Thank you for this post. I get the same idea with you about Jane's plan. That's not a efficient test (with Kenny= the treatment group, others in TWD world= control group; do want Jane does to both gourp. I don't think we can get a significant difference in means if we do the t-test).
I don't think it's a confusing read. You get it very clear to me. And I'm happy to meet someone who don't get significant prejudice towards the two characters. I want to post something like that too. But I'm not an English speaker, and after tried for some times I still can't express in a clear way.
PS. Nearly all of the endings hurt me. In Jane's ending I don't hesitate to have the family in, because I really want to build a new community there, where there's no Mr. Crawford, no Carver. Where no one need to repeat Kenny's tragedy. In Kenny's ending I feel good to hear Kenny laughing, but still in my mind, Jane's out somewhere, lying and frozen, or wandering without consciousness. The only one which doesn't hurt me is "let Kenny kill Jane, then shoot him to death, and leave alone with AJ", because I do it on purpose in my playthough of "a loner, crazy, badass Clem".
After reading through this thread, I felt a little brave enough to register and pitch in my two cents. I'm not quite sure where I'm gonna en… mored up going with this, as my thoughts about these things tend to be a bit disorganized, so please bear with me.
I'll start off by saying I really liked Kenny and Jane based off of their relationship with Clem-- admittedly, there were times I disliked their overall, individual characters-- and with that said, I absolutely cannot deny they both had their faults. Some faults can be justified, such as Kenny bashing in Larry's head to prevent him from reanimating, as well as Jane leaving her sister behind if you see that situation in a certain way, while other faults just can't be warranted for.
A similarity I draw between both Kenny and Jane's characters deal with their relationships with AJ and Clementine, respectively. I believe they saw a second chance in them, in the way that Kenny was devoted to hav… [view original content]
I understand that. To me it was obvious what Jane was doing, so I didn't think her life was worth saving at the expense of Kenny's. In your case, I can get behind that reasoning. However, growing old doesn't automatically mean your death, however you die, is never premature. He could have kept on living a healthy adult life, but he doesn't if he's shot by Clem. In a situation like this, it wouldn't matter to me how old he was or how young Jane was.
Well actually it might, but it kind of depends. I think there's a limit to how young Jane would be for Kenny to still react the way he does to when his buttons get pushed by her, let alone try to kill her.
Prematurely? A lot of people much younger than him have died already. I don think it's incorrect at all based on his behavior all through tw… moreo seasons. And the reason for killing him, was not, in my case, unethical. I did it stop him from murdering someone else.
She is controllled by you, Clementine is who you make her be in Season 2, she isn't eleven, she is you (unless you are eleven in which case I think you probably shouldn't play that game).
If Jane didn't care about the baby don't you think she would've left already?
Don´t you think that Clementine is her only reason to stay?
Jane: "Just go"
Kenny: "I ain't goin' nowhere"
So she expected that Kenny, thinking she had killed AJ, was going to run, leaving the only other person he cares for with a baby killer? Ah, a genius plan. But what you are saying is not true, because:
I shoulda known an argument with a Kenny die-hard was gonna go like this... If Jane didn't care about the baby don't you think she would've … moreleft already? "She didn't want to go that far with Kenny. Her original plan was to get him to leave" is true.
Jane: "Just go"
Kenny: "I ain't goin' nowhere"
Once Jane saw that there was nothing to stop Kenny, that's when she proceeded to fight Kenny
Kenny was NOT justified in killing Larry! There is no good or legitimate reason for Kenny killing Larry when we don't know a thing about him or the fact that he could've lived if you tried to save him.
But we don't know... that's the thing, no matter what either of us says in defence or against Larry, we don't have any evidence to go on wha… moretsoever
This here is you basically admitting that Kenny was justified in killing Larry.
Case closed.
Yes, he was. You just said that, remember: But we don't know... that's the thing, no matter what either of us says in defence or against Larry, we don't have any evidence to go on whatsoever
They were trapped in a small room, panicked and weaponless. So, yes Kenny was justified in killing Larry.
the fact that he could've lived if you tried to save him.
Lol, nope.
If Lee tries to revive him, Larry's mouth can be seen moving before Kenny drops the salt lick on his head; however, it is not made clear if this means that he was still alive at that time or that he was beginning to reanimate.
Kenny was NOT justified in killing Larry! There is no good or legitimate reason for Kenny killing Larry when we don't know a thing about him or the fact that he could've lived if you tried to save him.
Kenny was NOT justified in killing Larry!
Yes, he was. You just said that, remember: But we don't know... that's the thing, no matte… morer what either of us says in defence or against Larry, we don't have any evidence to go on whatsoever
They were trapped in a small room, panicked and weaponless. So, yes Kenny was justified in killing Larry.
the fact that he could've lived if you tried to save him.
Lol, nope.
If Lee tries to revive him, Larry's mouth can be seen moving before Kenny drops the salt lick on his head; however, it is not made clear if this means that he was still alive at that time or that he was beginning to reanimate.
Lilly's dad got killed but do you see her making remarks of how she wants Kenny dead?
Lee risks getting that close to a Walker.
You say Larry was unsalvageable, but what about the gunshot wounds and the open wounds, they shouldn't have been easily taken care of without medicine but they were.
How are we to know how Reggie truly feels? He sounded like he respected Carver when I first met him.
Everyone is different and each person acts differently when being attacked, as if Kenny wouldn't have done the same.
The fact of the matter is that he DIDN'T kill them, he only killed Walter AFTER Kenny killed one of his men, and then he proceeds to kill Alvin and only stops if Kenny surrenders. If he was originally going to do that, then why didn't he do so after Kenny surrendered? It would've made his intentions less difficult.
We don't know their situation which means I could be right or you could be right.
If YOUR Clementine cut Sarita's arm off than it is Clementine's fault. But MY Clementine didn't, therefore it's not MY Clementine's fault that Sarita got bitten.
Jane knew that Kenny would try to kill her.
We don't know the situation Larry was in or how bad his heart attack was. Also, do you really think Kenny did it just for everyone? Especially when you take to account their negative relationship?
Well people didn't seem to understand Lilly's actions because it was her father who we saw the negative side of.
Just because she was already gone and it was beneficial to the group doesn't mean it was right. And because they end up leaving the medicine behind, the whole trip and letting this woman suffer was really all for nothing.
We don't know what they would've done before the argument.
How are we even sure that Arvo leads the Russians to the group? They could've just been doing something else and the group just happened to be easy loot for them. We don't know the full story so how can we decide who is truly to blame?
Clementine wakes up. We don't know what could've happened before she woke up and who could've truly started the argument. Besides, the argument we see and hear starts when Kenny wouldn't even take Jane's idea of going back to Howe's where they KNOW has the supplies they need and was the safest option at the time. And then Kenny proceeds to be a smartass by being childish and making jokes about how he can't hear Jane. Not to mention the fact that when Jane gave up, Kenny riled her up again by telling her what to do as if she was a child.
Also, Jane wants to leave and Kenny doesn't let her. Whether you like it or not, Kenny riled Jane up first. Also, Kenny could've stopped the argument anytime by shutting up. So Kenny can insult Jane, but she can't do the same? It's an argument, people say allot of things when they're angry. If Clementine interferes, Kenny tells her to stay out of it, while Jane tells Kenny off for telling Clementine what to do. Kenny was a distance away from Sarita, if he was closer to her she could've been saved, besides, Jane only talks about Sarita after Kenny proceeds to talk about how Jane apparently only cares for herself, which to Jane is a huge insult. Sarita did talk about Kenny behind his back, it is rather clear how she feels about him when she says "I thought I could save him". Clementine can determinantly be afraid of Kenny. You can't say Kenny has done nothing but protect Clementine... was Kenny protecting Clementine in the herd? He ran away with Mike and determinantly Sarita without even looking back at Clementine. He wasn't the one who saved Clementine from drowning determinantly, it was all Jane. He didn't start the fire, that was Jane with Mike standing by. He was bullying Arvo, which in terms made Arvo and Clementine's relationship worse as well. He pushes Clementine away and can do it way more than once. He stabs Jane in the leg which causes her to fall, which causes Clementine to fall on her wound. He tries to convince Clementine to take AJ and live in Wellington, a place in which they know barely anything of and just because Edith was nice doesn't mean everyone else is the same.
Kenny has lied as well, he also hid his past from people which is practically the same as hiding the truth. I didn't see ANY Walkers nearby so AJ couldn't have gotten bit, and besides it wouldn't have been that easy for Walkers to get into the car in snow and AJ seemed fine, he didn't freeze to death and he wasn't bitten, no matter what your outcome is, AJ lives and is healthy. You really think Kenny would've let her run to the car without injuring her? Thus preventing her from going to the car as she is trying to prevent Kenny from reaching her? Kenny is a victim of Jane's deceit as Jane is a victim of Kenny's aggression.
First of all, Jane was never given the chance to speak and all Kenny did was go outside and do nothing, then go back inside and imply that Jane had killed AJ as if he saw it himself. I find it fucked up that Kenny beat Carver to death out of pure aggression and it wasn't needed and was really just a waste of time. Kenny almost beats Arvo to death, a teenager who had lost the one person he cared about, and him playing a role in his sisters death made it more difficult, Kenny has the audacity to bully Arvo for his mistakes despite the fact that no one in the group was killed by the Russians and his has the audacity to leave Lilly behind and call her a murderer whilst Kenny killed her dad, Larry, first hand which is straight up murder in my book and barely took the state Lilly was in to mind.
Exactly.
Yes, I have my opinions and you have yours.
How is killing people going to make Kenny a better person? Especially killing people in an inhumane way? If your opinion is that Carver deserved to die the way he did, then I respect that, but my opinion is that Carver didn't deserve to die the way he did and just made Kenny lower than Carver.
In Episode 3 we are shown that the medicine is in Lilly's room, when the bandits attack, no one carries the medicine with them to the R.V., … moretherefore they left the medicine behind. We are not shown any use of medicine throughout the rest of episode 3, Omid is injured and if they had medicine don't you think they'd use them instead of talking about how they don't have any medicine in episode 4?
They are forced to leave the medicine behind.
Note the forced part.
I'm not saying that Kenny was EVIL for hating Ben, he had the right to. But wanting someone dead is in no means right or necessary, goes to show how the roles of the living and the dead are swapped.
His family got killed because Ben was a idiot. Its not necessary, of course, but what do you expected? That they be best friends forever?
If you didn't know, in The Walking Dead Universe, a foot is all you need to smash a Walker's head in.
Because every… [view original content]
It still doesn't change the fact that Kenny didn't have to kill Larry that quickly.And it's a possibility that Larry could've lived.
Yes, he had to do it. Reanimatation as a walker is pretty fast. First, you have to consider that they were trapped in a small room, weapon less-yes, because a saltlick doesn´t not count as a weapon-, and Larry had just dropped to the ground. This all happened after Ben told them that is not the bite that does it, so that Larry-the same dude that knocked motherfucking Lee flat with one punch- would reanimate and kill all of them was a justifiable fear. Second, Larry was truly unsalvageable, no matter what you say. As soon as he dropped to the ground, he was as good as dead. You can claim that he stars breathing if you chose to save him, but that is very ambiguous. It could have be him reanimating as a walker. Besides, even if he had be breathing, he was not going to last. CPR is not some sort of magical revival technique; without proper medical attention, such as serious heart attack is going to kill anybody.
He didn't seem so keen on killing Duck that quickly...
Of course. The situation was very different.
Sure, it's Kenny's son but Larry was Lilly's dad.
Yes. And if Lily had be with then, and knew that Duck was going to turn, she could have pushed to kill Duck. They had essentialy the same reaction. Besides, you forget that this is not a proper argument, prink
If you haven't noticed, characters have been surviving fatal gunshot wounds and lived easily.
It still doesn't change the fact that Kenny didn't have to kill Larry that quickly.
And it's a possibility that Larry could've lived.
… moreHe didn't seem so keen on killing Duck that quickly... Sure, it's Kenny's son but Larry was Lilly's dad.
If you haven't noticed, characters have been surviving fatal gunshot wounds and lived easily.
Reanimation can be fast. It's never a given. Pretty sure some reanimations in the comics have taken hours.
I agree with him - Larry might have lived (unlikely) or he might have taken a long time to die and even longer to reanimate. He didn't have to smash his head in.
But he was afraid, trapped, in a high stress situation and they were still pretty new to this. At the best of times, Kenny is prone to overreaction but I think many people would have done the same in those circumstances. Once adrenalin kicks in, I can get why he didn't want to take the chance.
It still doesn't change the fact that Kenny didn't have to kill Larry that quickly.And it's a possibility that Larry could've lived.
… more Yes, he had to do it. Reanimatation as a walker is pretty fast. First, you have to consider that they were trapped in a small room, weapon less-yes, because a saltlick doesn´t not count as a weapon-, and Larry had just dropped to the ground. This all happened after Ben told them that is not the bite that does it, so that Larry-the same dude that knocked motherfucking Lee flat with one punch- would reanimate and kill all of them was a justifiable fear. Second, Larry was truly unsalvageable, no matter what you say. As soon as he dropped to the ground, he was as good as dead. You can claim that he stars breathing if you chose to save him, but that is very ambiguous. It could have be him reanimating as a walker. Besides, even if he had be breathing, he was not going to last. CPR is not some sort of magical r… [view original content]
Reanimation can be fast. It's never a given. Pretty sure some reanimations in the comics have taken hours.
All the reanimations the group have see have be pretty fast. There was no reason to think otherwise.
I agree with him - Larry might have lived (unlikely) or he might have taken a long time to die and even longer to reanimate. He didn't have to smash his head in.
Larry was as good as dead, even if he took hours to reanimate(pretty damn unlikely; even in the comics there are very littel cases, two or three). So yes, he had to smash his head in.
Once adrenalin kicks in, I can get why he didn't want to take the chance.
But there was no chance to take, Beef. They did not even know if they had a chance to take.
Reanimation can be fast. It's never a given. Pretty sure some reanimations in the comics have taken hours.
I agree with him - Larry might… more have lived (unlikely) or he might have taken a long time to die and even longer to reanimate. He didn't have to smash his head in.
But he was afraid, trapped, in a high stress situation and they were still pretty new to this. At the best of times, Kenny is prone to overreaction but I think many people would have done the same in those circumstances. Once adrenalin kicks in, I can get why he didn't want to take the chance.
Sure, they didn't know if they had a chance to take. I agree with that. I don't blame Kenny at all. But it is possible Larry might have lived and even more possible he could have taken longer to turn - possible but I don't think likely. They could have watched Larry carefully, ready to do the salt lick when the time came and that may well have been the thing to do for Lilly's sake. But while trapped in that situation in a small room with the St. John's having the others? I think they did the right thing. But it's not as simple as saying there was no chance - there was a chance. There are always choices.
Reanimation can be fast. It's never a given. Pretty sure some reanimations in the comics have taken hours.
All the reanimations the … moregroup have see have be pretty fast. There was no reason to think otherwise.
I agree with him - Larry might have lived (unlikely) or he might have taken a long time to die and even longer to reanimate. He didn't have to smash his head in.
Larry was as good as dead, even if he took hours to reanimate(pretty damn unlikely; even in the comics there are very littel cases, two or three). So yes, he had to smash his head in.
Once adrenalin kicks in, I can get why he didn't want to take the chance.
But there was no chance to take, Beef. They did not even know if they had a chance to take.
Sure, they didn't know if they had a chance to take. I agree with that. I don't blame Kenny at all. But it is possible Larry might have live… mored and even more possible he could have taken longer to turn - possible but I don't think likely. They could have watched Larry carefully, ready to do the salt lick when the time came and that may well have been the thing to do for Lilly's sake. But while trapped in that situation in a small room with the St. John's having the others? I think they did the right thing. But it's not as simple as saying there was no chance - there was a chance. There are always choices.
You went from "unlikely" to "no chance" in a couple of sentences. Unlikely (which I agree with) means there is still a chance. Saying he was as good as dead is something that you, like any character in the room, can't possibly know for sure. It wasn't fact. You can believe that was the case, and I would tend to agree. But it's a call we make. It's a call Kenny made. Doesn't ever guarantee it's the right call.
But it is possible Larry might have lived
Nope. CPR is not magical revival tecnique. Larry was as good as dead.
and even more … morepossible he could have taken longer to turn
Nope. It could have been pretty unlikely, considering we only have two or three cases of slower reanimation and that is only in the comics.
They could have watched Larry carefully, ready to do the salt lick when the time came and that may well have been the thing to do for Lilly's sake.
It was too much of a risk.
But it's not as simple as saying there was no chance
There was no chance. Is really as simple as that. Larry was as good as death as soon as he dropped to the ground.
There are always choices.
But they can´t not take suicidal choices. And besides, like I have already said, they did not know they had choices.
It was unlikely that Larry could have reanimated slower, that´s what I was saying.
to "no chance" in a couple of sentences.
I said there was no chance he was going to live.
Saying he was as good as dead is something that you, like any character in the room, can't possibly know for sure. It wasn't fact.
Is a fact. CPR does not work like that. Keep in mind that Larry looked panicked before dropping to the ground, and they did not have proper medical assitance.
. Doesn't ever guarantee it's the right call.
No, of course, but in that situation I think that was the rigth call.
You went from "unlikely" to "no chance" in a couple of sentences. Unlikely (which I agree with) means there is still a chance. Saying he was… more as good as dead is something that you, like any character in the room, can't possibly know for sure. It wasn't fact. You can believe that was the case, and I would tend to agree. But it's a call we make. It's a call Kenny made. Doesn't ever guarantee it's the right call.
You went from "unlikely"
It was unlikely that Larry could have reanimated slower, that´s what I was saying.
to "no chance" in … morea couple of sentences.
I said there was no chance he was going to live.
Saying he was as good as dead is something that you, like any character in the room, can't possibly know for sure. It wasn't fact.
Is a fact. CPR does not work like that. Keep in mind that Larry looked panicked before dropping to the ground, and they did not have proper medical assitance.
. Doesn't ever guarantee it's the right call.
No, of course, but in that situation I think that was the rigth call.
Bandits also were in close range, prink. Don´t forget that.
Lilly's dad got killed but do you see her making remarks of how she wants Kenny dead?
Is pretty clear Lilly hates Kenny. If Carley/Doug had not gotten in the away when they got out of the truck, she could have shoot Kenny.
Lee risks getting that close to a Walker.
Twice, yes. One because Clem could be attacked and one (determinantly) with that walker kid on the attic, which could barely move.
You say Larry was unsalvageable, but what about the gunshot wounds and the open wounds, they shouldn't have been easily taken care of without medicine but they were.
Gunshots? Nobody was shot. And Omid´s wound was taken care of after getting the medice out of Crawford.
How are we to know how Reggie truly feels? He sounded like he respected Carver when I first met him.
He sounded like he was scared to death, making excuses and justifications for himself. Far for respect.
Everyone is different and each person acts differently when being attacked, as if Kenny wouldn't have done the same.
And? The knife was in its sheath, and Jane goes for the knife even before Kenny his back on his feet. She personally escalates the fight, needlessly. And that she did not kill Kenny right there was only luck. Besides, you are acting like the Jane vs Kenny fight was an equal thing, morality wise and that simply is not true. The baby was no death, but in a car, and Jane knew that. She could have stopped the fight but she chose to try at kill Kenny. That´s wrong.
The fact of the matter is that he DIDN'T kill them, he only killed Walter AFTER Kenny killed one of his men, and then he proceeds to kill Alvin and only stops if Kenny surrenders. If he was originally going to do that, then why didn't he do so after Kenny surrendered? It would've made his intentions less difficult.
There is this magical thing called ‘taking hostages’, and a dead hostage is no really useful. That´s why Carver did not kill Walter before that. So, yes, if Carver had been lying, and Kenny had given himself out, then he could have killed Kenny and the group couldn´t have anybody to defend them.
We don't know their situation which means I could be right or you could be right.
But that we don´t know their situation is no excuse. Is obvious that if they did not do it then they had not time to do it or could not do it for some reason.
We don't know the situation Larry was in or how bad his heart attack was.
Larry looks panicked-fucking Larry looks panicked- and he drops to the ground. It was a grave heart attack, nothing that could be solved by CPR.
Also, do you really think Kenny did it just for everyone? Especially when you take to account their negative relationship?
If Larry turned, everyone was as good as dead. So, yes, it was good for the good of everyone.
Well people didn't seem to understand Lilly's actions because it was her father who we saw the negative side of.
I understand Lilly´s actions, but it does not change the fact that saving Larry was impossible. He was as good as dead when he hit the ground. And if Larry turned, everyone was as good as dead.
Just because she was already gone and it was beneficial to the group doesn't mean it was right.
I never said it made it right, I just said that doing that does not make Kenny a monster like you think.To Kenny, that was just another hard decision for survival.
And because they end up leaving the medicine behind, the whole trip and letting this woman suffer was really all for nothing.
Is not like the characters know the future. This is irrelevant to the present situation that led Kenny to make that decision.
We don't know what they would've done before the argument.
Sit around of their asses, wondering what to do. Like they were doing.
We don't know what could've happened before she woke up and who could've truly started the argument.
This is not about that. Is about who makes the argument personal.
And then Kenny proceeds to be a smartass by being childish and making jokes about how he can't hear Jane.
Jane: Let´s play a game, Clem. I spy with my little eye, an asshole.
Not to mention the fact that when Jane gave up, Kenny riled her up again by telling her what to do as if she was a child.
Jane. Whatever. I give up.
And she put her feet on the dash. That´s pretty childish.
Also, Jane wants to leave and Kenny doesn't let her.
Dafuq?
Also, Kenny could've stopped the argument anytime by shutting up.
And? Jane could have shut up too, but she did not do it.
So Kenny can insult Jane, but she can't do the same?
Dafuq? Are you really misreading my posts so much? The problem is that Jane made it personal first.
It's an argument, people say allot of things when they're angry.
And after the argument, what is Jane first idea? Leave with the car and leave Kenny to die in the middle of a snowstorm. She said what she said, and she meant every word of it. Jane hated Kenny.
If Clementine interferes, Kenny tells her to stay out of it, while Jane tells Kenny off for telling Clementine what to do.
And? I fail to see what this has to do with this conversation.
Kenny was a distance away from Sarita, if he was closer to her she could've been saved, besides,
Sarita knew how to take care of herself, and it’s easy to lose a person in the middle of a goddam walker herd.
Jane only talks about Sarita after Kenny proceeds to talk about how Jane apparently only cares for herself.
And? Does it make it any better? Does it give her any right to said what she did? Does that give her any right to say he is just another asshole tried to save dead people when he is tried to control himself, rubs him his face that he couldn´t even see Sarita being bitten or killed, said that nobody could love him and that AJ is scared to death of him, said that Sarita talked behind his back and was afraid of him and so is Clementine, when he has done nothing but protect her when nobody else did since he first appeared this season, that every time someone around him dies is his fault and that everyone knows it?
He pushes Clementine away and can do it way more than once.
I am going to tell you a secret: Jane does that too.
He stabs Jane in the leg which causes her to fall, which causes Clementine to fall on her wound.
And his somehow his fault that an accident hurt her?
Wow, prink, just wow.
He tries to convince Clementine to take AJ and live in Wellington, a place in which they know barely anything of and just because Edith was nice doesn't mean everyone else is the same.
They give supplies away. To complete strangers.
You know, I case you did not get that part.
Kenny has lied as well, he also hid his past from people which is practically the same as hiding the truth.
First of all, that´s hiding the truth, not lying. Second, I said that Jane was bad for lying about the death of a baby, not only for lying.
I didn't see ANY Walkers nearby so AJ couldn't have gotten bit,
Walkers move, and are 'sensitive' to sound.
and besides it wouldn't have been that easy for Walkers to get into the car
Walkers easily break windows
in snow and AJ seemed fine, he didn't freeze to death and he wasn't bitten, no matter what your outcome is, AJ lives and is healthy.
So is okay for Jane to put AJ in danger to kill Kenny just because the baby did not die? Seriously?
You really think Kenny would've let her run to the car without injuring her? Thus preventing her from going to the car as she is trying to prevent Kenny from reaching her? First of all, Jane was never given the chance to speak and all Kenny did was go outside and do nothing, then go back inside and imply that Jane had killed AJ as if he saw it himself.
She did not try. As for the rest, I am just going to quote myself here:
Let´s consider how Jane comes to the rest stop: in tears, hugging herself, but completely unharmed. That´s fishy, really fishy and Kenny noticed it. He noticed it, but he is still refusing to believe it.
Kenny: Jane, where is the kid? Jane, where is he?
Clem: (Whatever you chose)
Jane: He is...
Kenny: What are you saying? *He shakes his head *No, no, no.
Then he runs out, desperately searching for AJ. When we see him again, he is enraged. Jane said that AJ is dead, and she is unharmed, so there is only one logical conclusion. Jane killed AJ. She left him behind because, in a snowstorm chased by walkers, the baby was just a liability.
Kenny: How could you kill a fucking child?!
Jane: I didn´t kill him. It was accident, Kenny.
Kenny: Bullshit.
Then Jane sheaths the knife. You can call it Jane trying to end the fight, but we all know is bullshit. She wanted to give him an opening so the fight could happen.
Jane (as she sheaths the knife): Don´t you come near me, you son of a bitch.
I don´t know about you, but I certainly could not be stupid enough to taunt and insult my opponent if I wanted to stop a fight. So is clear that she wanted it to happen. There is nothing to debate.
When Kenny shoves Jane against the Rest Stop window, he is not trying to kill her. He is doing the same thing he did to Mike in episode 3-no to choke her, but to restrain her.
After this, Clem tries to stop the fight, Jane punches Kenny, driving him to the ground, straddles him and repeatedly punches him. If she had wanted to stop the fight, not kill Kenny, is pretty clear she had a chance right there and there. But she didn´t take it.
When Clem tries to stop the fight again, both end up on the ground, and even before Kenny is back on his feet, she goes for her knife. That Jane didn´t kill Kenny with that slash of the knife was pure luck.
After that, Kenny retreats outside. That was another perfect opportunity to stop the fight-she could have run past Kenny to the car, but she didn´t do it.
Jane: Fucking Psycho!
Kenny: THIS IS ON YOU!
No matter what you do in this scene, Jane tries to kill Kenny with her knife instead of revealing her plan. Kenny dodges the slashes, grabs her arm and throws her against the sign, breaking it, leaving then both of the ground. Kenny goes for the knife, but Jane stops him and tries to poke his eyes out. She has Kenny on the ground, writhing and screaming him pain, so this was another perfect opportunity to stop the fight. Jane could have stopped tried to poke his eyes out, and make a run for the car, but she didn´t.
Clem gets Jane off Kenny, and he takes the chance to grab the knife, stab her in the length, straddled her and stab her trough the chest.
Kenny: I fucking kill you!
Jane: I… knew you would …
Kenny: Just… fucking die …
Jane: Fuck you!
Kenny: I am not going to let you…
I find it fucked up that Kenny beat Carver to death out of pure aggression and it wasn't needed and was really just a waste of time.
Revenge.
Kenny almost beats Arvo to death
Kenny punches Arvo a few times. He did not intend to kill him.
Kenny has the audacity to bully Arvo for his mistakes despite the fact that no one in the group was killed by the Russians
So that writing hax saved the group for the Russians make it okay for Arvo to put Clem´s group in mortal danger?
Good to know.
And his has the audacity to leave Lilly behind and call her a murderer whilst Kenny killed her dad, Larry, first hand which is straight up murder in my book and barely took the state Lilly was in to mind.
Lily had no reason to shot Carley/Doug, but she did. Kenny had a reason to kill Larry. I wonder who is more justified? Such a difficult question…
That was sarcasm, by the way.
Exactly.
And?
Yes, I have my opinions and you have yours.
Does not change that Jane did what she did, that is really fucked up, and you should at least admit that.
How is killing people going to make Kenny a better person? Especially killing people in an inhumane way?
How does Kenny killing Carver translate to Kenny being a bad person?
Spoiler Alert: It doesn´t. It was just revenge.
Ah, and another thing. Carver was dead by the second strike. It was far for inhumane.
If your opinion is that Carver deserved to die the way he did, then I respect that, but my opinion is that Carver didn't deserve to die the way he did and just made Kenny lower than Carver.
Lower? Nope. Carver deserved to die the way he did, because that could have happened to Kenny if Bonnie did not appear, except more painful and drag out because Carver beat him with a walkie-talkie, not a crowbar. So yes, killing Carver like that does not make Kenny lower that Carver at all.
Yet the medicine was in close range.
Lilly's dad got killed but do you see her making remarks of how she wants Kenny dead?
Lee risks g… moreetting that close to a Walker.
You say Larry was unsalvageable, but what about the gunshot wounds and the open wounds, they shouldn't have been easily taken care of without medicine but they were.
How are we to know how Reggie truly feels? He sounded like he respected Carver when I first met him.
Everyone is different and each person acts differently when being attacked, as if Kenny wouldn't have done the same.
The fact of the matter is that he DIDN'T kill them, he only killed Walter AFTER Kenny killed one of his men, and then he proceeds to kill Alvin and only stops if Kenny surrenders. If he was originally going to do that, then why didn't he do so after Kenny surrendered? It would've made his intentions less difficult.
We don't know their situation which means I could be right or you cou… [view original content]
Comments
I did the same I chose to go with Jane you know why because she has proven to have my back multiple times....plus I was tired of having to talk to Kenny, tired of having to calm him down, tired of having to apologize all the time to him. Kenny was in the same situation as everyone else he lost people, he was trying to survive, he was full of to many regrets and he was starting to break. I wish there would have been an option to leave Kenny and the baby. Maybe Jane is a crazy woman who will let me down (if she does she'll suffer the same fate as Kenny did) maybe not the option I wish I really had at the end was leave the baby in the car I see nothing but a liability in AJ. Also before anyone ask yeah I would leave the kid and never think twice survival is the goal for my Clementine and Jane is the best avenue to it that I saw. Hopefully the family that shows up at the end will take AJ and leave without me having to kill all of them.
I get what your saying but a person can still change. Especially during the 16 months she was with Christa. I do agree that its more logical, just not set in stone.
It's more like you can choose to tell him which person you hurt and it doesn't exactly mean that the other options you didn't choose aren't true. It is a personal part of his past, so if he doesn't say, it's because he doesn't feel like talking about it. You can hear it in his voice, he feels like the murder wouldn't even have happened if he had been a better husband. When Lee tells the Stranger he hurt his wife, he asks him how, and Lee can either explain or respond with indignation.
Prematurely? A lot of people much younger than him have died already. I don think it's incorrect at all based on his behavior all through two seasons. And the reason for killing him, was not, in my case, unethical. I did it stop him from murdering someone else.
Sadly I have to say that if I were Jane I would've done what she did, Jane took a great risk to try to make the situation work. If Jane didn't care about Clementine, she could've just gone back to Howe's with the baby, or even just ditched everyone. Whereas Kenny wanted what Kenny wanted; he didn't care about working it out with other people; he could never ever hear any disagreements to his own opinion. Even though Jane knew Kenny would break at any moment, she came back to convince Clementine that staying with Kenny was not going to work. It was manipulative, I agree, but what she proved was indisputable: Kenny was capable of murdering in anger. The man was self destructive at that point.
Let's face it, they were both good people and didn't deserve to die, but Jane was coolheaded, and Kenny was always the exact opposite. I just couldn't find fault in Jane's coolheadedness, I understood her rationales completely. Jane was also capable of change, shown by her coming back the group, but Kenny is always on the edge of something terrible. I actually highly doubt people in real life would've made the decision to stick with Kenny instead of Jane. It's easy to be loyal to a character in front of a computer.
Thank you for this post. I get the same idea with you about Jane's plan. That's not a efficient test (with Kenny= the treatment group, others in TWD world= control group; do want Jane does to both gourp. I don't think we can get a significant difference in means if we do the t-test).
I don't think it's a confusing read. You get it very clear to me. And I'm happy to meet someone who don't get significant prejudice towards the two characters. I want to post something like that too. But I'm not an English speaker, and after tried for some times I still can't express in a clear way.
PS. Nearly all of the endings hurt me. In Jane's ending I don't hesitate to have the family in, because I really want to build a new community there, where there's no Mr. Crawford, no Carver. Where no one need to repeat Kenny's tragedy. In Kenny's ending I feel good to hear Kenny laughing, but still in my mind, Jane's out somewhere, lying and frozen, or wandering without consciousness. The only one which doesn't hurt me is "let Kenny kill Jane, then shoot him to death, and leave alone with AJ", because I do it on purpose in my playthough of "a loner, crazy, badass Clem".
I understand that. To me it was obvious what Jane was doing, so I didn't think her life was worth saving at the expense of Kenny's. In your case, I can get behind that reasoning. However, growing old doesn't automatically mean your death, however you die, is never premature. He could have kept on living a healthy adult life, but he doesn't if he's shot by Clem. In a situation like this, it wouldn't matter to me how old he was or how young Jane was.
Well actually it might, but it kind of depends. I think there's a limit to how young Jane would be for Kenny to still react the way he does to when his buttons get pushed by her, let alone try to kill her.
There was really no connection between my clementine and kenny. Kenny's a selfish prick.
Clementine helps him calm down, she's there for him, talks to him whenever he needs it and it's always Kenny's way because he knows what he's doing.
Don´t you think that Clementine is her only reason to stay?
So she expected that Kenny, thinking she had killed AJ, was going to run, leaving the only other person he cares for with a baby killer? Ah, a genius plan. But what you are saying is not true, because:
Kenny: I fucking kill you!
Jane: I knew you would.
Kenny was NOT justified in killing Larry! There is no good or legitimate reason for Kenny killing Larry when we don't know a thing about him or the fact that he could've lived if you tried to save him.
Yes, he was. You just said that, remember: But we don't know... that's the thing, no matter what either of us says in defence or against Larry, we don't have any evidence to go on whatsoever
They were trapped in a small room, panicked and weaponless. So, yes Kenny was justified in killing Larry.
Lol, nope.
It still doesn't change the fact that Kenny didn't have to kill Larry that quickly.
And it's a possibility that Larry could've lived.
He didn't seem so keen on killing Duck that quickly... Sure, it's Kenny's son but Larry was Lilly's dad.
If you haven't noticed, characters have been surviving fatal gunshot wounds and lived easily.
Yet the medicine was in close range.
Lilly's dad got killed but do you see her making remarks of how she wants Kenny dead?
Lee risks getting that close to a Walker.
You say Larry was unsalvageable, but what about the gunshot wounds and the open wounds, they shouldn't have been easily taken care of without medicine but they were.
How are we to know how Reggie truly feels? He sounded like he respected Carver when I first met him.
Everyone is different and each person acts differently when being attacked, as if Kenny wouldn't have done the same.
The fact of the matter is that he DIDN'T kill them, he only killed Walter AFTER Kenny killed one of his men, and then he proceeds to kill Alvin and only stops if Kenny surrenders. If he was originally going to do that, then why didn't he do so after Kenny surrendered? It would've made his intentions less difficult.
We don't know their situation which means I could be right or you could be right.
If YOUR Clementine cut Sarita's arm off than it is Clementine's fault. But MY Clementine didn't, therefore it's not MY Clementine's fault that Sarita got bitten.
Jane knew that Kenny would try to kill her.
We don't know the situation Larry was in or how bad his heart attack was. Also, do you really think Kenny did it just for everyone? Especially when you take to account their negative relationship?
Well people didn't seem to understand Lilly's actions because it was her father who we saw the negative side of.
Just because she was already gone and it was beneficial to the group doesn't mean it was right. And because they end up leaving the medicine behind, the whole trip and letting this woman suffer was really all for nothing.
We don't know what they would've done before the argument.
How are we even sure that Arvo leads the Russians to the group? They could've just been doing something else and the group just happened to be easy loot for them. We don't know the full story so how can we decide who is truly to blame?
Clementine wakes up. We don't know what could've happened before she woke up and who could've truly started the argument. Besides, the argument we see and hear starts when Kenny wouldn't even take Jane's idea of going back to Howe's where they KNOW has the supplies they need and was the safest option at the time. And then Kenny proceeds to be a smartass by being childish and making jokes about how he can't hear Jane. Not to mention the fact that when Jane gave up, Kenny riled her up again by telling her what to do as if she was a child.
Also, Jane wants to leave and Kenny doesn't let her. Whether you like it or not, Kenny riled Jane up first. Also, Kenny could've stopped the argument anytime by shutting up. So Kenny can insult Jane, but she can't do the same? It's an argument, people say allot of things when they're angry. If Clementine interferes, Kenny tells her to stay out of it, while Jane tells Kenny off for telling Clementine what to do. Kenny was a distance away from Sarita, if he was closer to her she could've been saved, besides, Jane only talks about Sarita after Kenny proceeds to talk about how Jane apparently only cares for herself, which to Jane is a huge insult. Sarita did talk about Kenny behind his back, it is rather clear how she feels about him when she says "I thought I could save him". Clementine can determinantly be afraid of Kenny. You can't say Kenny has done nothing but protect Clementine... was Kenny protecting Clementine in the herd? He ran away with Mike and determinantly Sarita without even looking back at Clementine. He wasn't the one who saved Clementine from drowning determinantly, it was all Jane. He didn't start the fire, that was Jane with Mike standing by. He was bullying Arvo, which in terms made Arvo and Clementine's relationship worse as well. He pushes Clementine away and can do it way more than once. He stabs Jane in the leg which causes her to fall, which causes Clementine to fall on her wound. He tries to convince Clementine to take AJ and live in Wellington, a place in which they know barely anything of and just because Edith was nice doesn't mean everyone else is the same.
Kenny has lied as well, he also hid his past from people which is practically the same as hiding the truth. I didn't see ANY Walkers nearby so AJ couldn't have gotten bit, and besides it wouldn't have been that easy for Walkers to get into the car in snow and AJ seemed fine, he didn't freeze to death and he wasn't bitten, no matter what your outcome is, AJ lives and is healthy. You really think Kenny would've let her run to the car without injuring her? Thus preventing her from going to the car as she is trying to prevent Kenny from reaching her? Kenny is a victim of Jane's deceit as Jane is a victim of Kenny's aggression.
First of all, Jane was never given the chance to speak and all Kenny did was go outside and do nothing, then go back inside and imply that Jane had killed AJ as if he saw it himself. I find it fucked up that Kenny beat Carver to death out of pure aggression and it wasn't needed and was really just a waste of time. Kenny almost beats Arvo to death, a teenager who had lost the one person he cared about, and him playing a role in his sisters death made it more difficult, Kenny has the audacity to bully Arvo for his mistakes despite the fact that no one in the group was killed by the Russians and his has the audacity to leave Lilly behind and call her a murderer whilst Kenny killed her dad, Larry, first hand which is straight up murder in my book and barely took the state Lilly was in to mind.
Exactly.
Yes, I have my opinions and you have yours.
How is killing people going to make Kenny a better person? Especially killing people in an inhumane way? If your opinion is that Carver deserved to die the way he did, then I respect that, but my opinion is that Carver didn't deserve to die the way he did and just made Kenny lower than Carver.
Yes, he had to do it. Reanimatation as a walker is pretty fast. First, you have to consider that they were trapped in a small room, weapon less-yes, because a saltlick doesn´t not count as a weapon-, and Larry had just dropped to the ground. This all happened after Ben told them that is not the bite that does it, so that Larry-the same dude that knocked motherfucking Lee flat with one punch- would reanimate and kill all of them was a justifiable fear. Second, Larry was truly unsalvageable, no matter what you say. As soon as he dropped to the ground, he was as good as dead. You can claim that he stars breathing if you chose to save him, but that is very ambiguous. It could have be him reanimating as a walker. Besides, even if he had be breathing, he was not going to last. CPR is not some sort of magical revival technique; without proper medical attention, such as serious heart attack is going to kill anybody.
Of course. The situation was very different.
Yes. And if Lily had be with then, and knew that Duck was going to turn, she could have pushed to kill Duck. They had essentialy the same reaction. Besides, you forget that this is not a proper argument, prink
Nope.
Reanimation can be fast. It's never a given. Pretty sure some reanimations in the comics have taken hours.
I agree with him - Larry might have lived (unlikely) or he might have taken a long time to die and even longer to reanimate. He didn't have to smash his head in.
But he was afraid, trapped, in a high stress situation and they were still pretty new to this. At the best of times, Kenny is prone to overreaction but I think many people would have done the same in those circumstances. Once adrenalin kicks in, I can get why he didn't want to take the chance.
All the reanimations the group have see have be pretty fast. There was no reason to think otherwise.
Larry was as good as dead, even if he took hours to reanimate(pretty damn unlikely; even in the comics there are very littel cases, two or three). So yes, he had to smash his head in.
But there was no chance to take, Beef. They did not even know if they had a chance to take.
Sure, they didn't know if they had a chance to take. I agree with that. I don't blame Kenny at all. But it is possible Larry might have lived and even more possible he could have taken longer to turn - possible but I don't think likely. They could have watched Larry carefully, ready to do the salt lick when the time came and that may well have been the thing to do for Lilly's sake. But while trapped in that situation in a small room with the St. John's having the others? I think they did the right thing. But it's not as simple as saying there was no chance - there was a chance. There are always choices.
Nope. CPR is not magical revival tecnique. Larry was as good as dead.
Nope. It could have been pretty unlikely, considering we only have two or three cases of slower reanimation and that is only in the comics.
It was too much of a risk.
There was no chance. Is really as simple as that. Larry was as good as death as soon as he dropped to the ground.
But they can´t not take suicidal choices. And besides, like I have already said, they did not know they had choices.
You went from "unlikely" to "no chance" in a couple of sentences. Unlikely (which I agree with) means there is still a chance. Saying he was as good as dead is something that you, like any character in the room, can't possibly know for sure. It wasn't fact. You can believe that was the case, and I would tend to agree. But it's a call we make. It's a call Kenny made. Doesn't ever guarantee it's the right call.
It was unlikely that Larry could have reanimated slower, that´s what I was saying.
I said there was no chance he was going to live.
Is a fact. CPR does not work like that. Keep in mind that Larry looked panicked before dropping to the ground, and they did not have proper medical assitance.
No, of course, but in that situation I think that was the rigth call.
Oh, I agree. In the circumstances, it seems right.
Bandits also were in close range, prink. Don´t forget that.
Is pretty clear Lilly hates Kenny. If Carley/Doug had not gotten in the away when they got out of the truck, she could have shoot Kenny.
Twice, yes. One because Clem could be attacked and one (determinantly) with that walker kid on the attic, which could barely move.
Gunshots? Nobody was shot. And Omid´s wound was taken care of after getting the medice out of Crawford.
How are we to know how Reggie truly feels? He sounded like he respected Carver when I first met him.
He sounded like he was scared to death, making excuses and justifications for himself. Far for respect.
And? The knife was in its sheath, and Jane goes for the knife even before Kenny his back on his feet. She personally escalates the fight, needlessly. And that she did not kill Kenny right there was only luck. Besides, you are acting like the Jane vs Kenny fight was an equal thing, morality wise and that simply is not true. The baby was no death, but in a car, and Jane knew that. She could have stopped the fight but she chose to try at kill Kenny. That´s wrong.
There is this magical thing called ‘taking hostages’, and a dead hostage is no really useful. That´s why Carver did not kill Walter before that. So, yes, if Carver had been lying, and Kenny had given himself out, then he could have killed Kenny and the group couldn´t have anybody to defend them.
But that we don´t know their situation is no excuse. Is obvious that if they did not do it then they had not time to do it or could not do it for some reason.
Larry looks panicked-fucking Larry looks panicked- and he drops to the ground. It was a grave heart attack, nothing that could be solved by CPR.
If Larry turned, everyone was as good as dead. So, yes, it was good for the good of everyone.
I understand Lilly´s actions, but it does not change the fact that saving Larry was impossible. He was as good as dead when he hit the ground. And if Larry turned, everyone was as good as dead.
I never said it made it right, I just said that doing that does not make Kenny a monster like you think.To Kenny, that was just another hard decision for survival.
Is not like the characters know the future. This is irrelevant to the present situation that led Kenny to make that decision.
Sit around of their asses, wondering what to do. Like they were doing.
This is not about that. Is about who makes the argument personal.
Jane: Let´s play a game, Clem. I spy with my little eye, an asshole.
Jane. Whatever. I give up.
And she put her feet on the dash. That´s pretty childish.
Dafuq?
And? Jane could have shut up too, but she did not do it.
Dafuq? Are you really misreading my posts so much? The problem is that Jane made it personal first.
And after the argument, what is Jane first idea? Leave with the car and leave Kenny to die in the middle of a snowstorm. She said what she said, and she meant every word of it. Jane hated Kenny.
And? I fail to see what this has to do with this conversation.
Sarita knew how to take care of herself, and it’s easy to lose a person in the middle of a goddam walker herd.
And? Does it make it any better? Does it give her any right to said what she did? Does that give her any right to say he is just another asshole tried to save dead people when he is tried to control himself, rubs him his face that he couldn´t even see Sarita being bitten or killed, said that nobody could love him and that AJ is scared to death of him, said that Sarita talked behind his back and was afraid of him and so is Clementine, when he has done nothing but protect her when nobody else did since he first appeared this season, that every time someone around him dies is his fault and that everyone knows it?
I am going to tell you a secret: Jane does that too.
And his somehow his fault that an accident hurt her?
Wow, prink, just wow.
They give supplies away. To complete strangers.
You know, I case you did not get that part.
First of all, that´s hiding the truth, not lying. Second, I said that Jane was bad for lying about the death of a baby, not only for lying.
Walkers move, and are 'sensitive' to sound.
Walkers easily break windows
So is okay for Jane to put AJ in danger to kill Kenny just because the baby did not die? Seriously?
She did not try. As for the rest, I am just going to quote myself here:
Let´s consider how Jane comes to the rest stop: in tears, hugging herself, but completely unharmed. That´s fishy, really fishy and Kenny noticed it. He noticed it, but he is still refusing to believe it.
Kenny: Jane, where is the kid? Jane, where is he?
Clem: (Whatever you chose)
Jane: He is...
Kenny: What are you saying? *He shakes his head *No, no, no.
Then he runs out, desperately searching for AJ. When we see him again, he is enraged. Jane said that AJ is dead, and she is unharmed, so there is only one logical conclusion. Jane killed AJ. She left him behind because, in a snowstorm chased by walkers, the baby was just a liability.
Kenny: How could you kill a fucking child?!
Jane: I didn´t kill him. It was accident, Kenny.
Kenny: Bullshit.
Then Jane sheaths the knife. You can call it Jane trying to end the fight, but we all know is bullshit. She wanted to give him an opening so the fight could happen.
Jane (as she sheaths the knife): Don´t you come near me, you son of a bitch.
I don´t know about you, but I certainly could not be stupid enough to taunt and insult my opponent if I wanted to stop a fight. So is clear that she wanted it to happen. There is nothing to debate.
When Kenny shoves Jane against the Rest Stop window, he is not trying to kill her. He is doing the same thing he did to Mike in episode 3-no to choke her, but to restrain her.
After this, Clem tries to stop the fight, Jane punches Kenny, driving him to the ground, straddles him and repeatedly punches him. If she had wanted to stop the fight, not kill Kenny, is pretty clear she had a chance right there and there. But she didn´t take it.
When Clem tries to stop the fight again, both end up on the ground, and even before Kenny is back on his feet, she goes for her knife. That Jane didn´t kill Kenny with that slash of the knife was pure luck.
After that, Kenny retreats outside. That was another perfect opportunity to stop the fight-she could have run past Kenny to the car, but she didn´t do it.
Jane: Fucking Psycho!
Kenny: THIS IS ON YOU!
No matter what you do in this scene, Jane tries to kill Kenny with her knife instead of revealing her plan. Kenny dodges the slashes, grabs her arm and throws her against the sign, breaking it, leaving then both of the ground. Kenny goes for the knife, but Jane stops him and tries to poke his eyes out. She has Kenny on the ground, writhing and screaming him pain, so this was another perfect opportunity to stop the fight. Jane could have stopped tried to poke his eyes out, and make a run for the car, but she didn´t.
Clem gets Jane off Kenny, and he takes the chance to grab the knife, stab her in the length, straddled her and stab her trough the chest.
Kenny: I fucking kill you!
Jane: I… knew you would …
Kenny: Just… fucking die …
Jane: Fuck you!
Kenny: I am not going to let you…
Revenge.
Kenny punches Arvo a few times. He did not intend to kill him.
So that writing hax saved the group for the Russians make it okay for Arvo to put Clem´s group in mortal danger?
Good to know.
Lily had no reason to shot Carley/Doug, but she did. Kenny had a reason to kill Larry. I wonder who is more justified? Such a difficult question…
That was sarcasm, by the way.
And?
Does not change that Jane did what she did, that is really fucked up, and you should at least admit that.
How does Kenny killing Carver translate to Kenny being a bad person?
Spoiler Alert: It doesn´t. It was just revenge.
Ah, and another thing. Carver was dead by the second strike. It was far for inhumane.
Lower? Nope. Carver deserved to die the way he did, because that could have happened to Kenny if Bonnie did not appear, except more painful and drag out because Carver beat him with a walkie-talkie, not a crowbar. So yes, killing Carver like that does not make Kenny lower that Carver at all.