We have no context of Lee's personality days before he killed the senator. I don't see it as an accident, I can only justify it if it was a shock to find them together and even then I don't justify it. We have context of what Kenny's temperment is so he does not get a pass from me. Just like there was a breaking point with Jane does not mean he won't have it with Clem.
So if Kenny gets enraged and kills a person in a fight, he did it on purpose. If Lee gets enraged, fights and kills a man, it's accidental. … moreAlso, just a reminder that it was Jane who brought the knife into a fist fight.
she wasn't neglect in any way.
Feel free to look up the definition. She is 100% responsible for her alleged losing of the baby, 100% responsible for endangering the baby's life by leaving it in the cold and 100% responsible for purposely tipping a person over the edge and getting stabbed as a consequence.
She decided to risk herself for Clem to reveal Kenny's true colors.
Every single person has a breaking point, that happened to be his. She played with fire and got burned alive. I love how you keep saying she did it for "Clem's sake" even though there is absolutely no evidence to suggest Kenny would ever go berserk on Clem. In fact, there's evidence to suggest the contrary.
God, you're more ignorant and close minded than I thought.
It's for respect, and you have blindfolds, not because you don't believe in God, but because that you won't accept that your opinion isn't the only right answer.
Why are you insulting other religions with your capital letter god?
Gods were created by people, religions were created to control those who believed in gods.
There have been so many gods created over thousands of years... Who are you to say which one is the real one?
Complete lack of evidence for gods isnt helping either.
stupid for believing in things which we have no evidence of
You say that, but where's your proof that a god doesn't exist? People believed the Earth was flat too, but that was disproved. Knowledge is ever-expanding.
parents brainwash their children to believe in supernatural creatures and magic
True, but like I said, knowledge is ever-expanding. We don't live in a time where science is unheard of. Because someone was born under the constant influence of religion, doesn't mean they are unable to learn about science. I grew up and am still growing up in a strict Catholic household, go to a Catholic school, attend Mass regularly twice a week and church with my family on Sundays, and study my Bible every night, but I'm not unaware of facts and science, because I don't let myself be brainwashed. Influence isn't written in stone.
Well majority of people on this planet are stupid for believing in things which we have no evidence of.
Only reason religions still exist… mores is because it has been forced down peoples throats for too many centuries. Crusades are over now, but now parents brainwash their children to believe in supernatural creatures and magic. Children are very easy to corrupt with religion, because their understanding on universe/science is non-existent.
You also shove your "scientific evidence" down our throats, you literally quoted things earlier, just like a blindly religious man quoting the Bible.
You are no better than the people you ridicule.
And once again, proving God to exist or not is not supposed to be your top priority, if you stomp all empathy for others in the race to prove you are right, when you reach the finish line, no one will cheer for you.
Work on yourself and how you talk to people before taking on any bigger topics.
Well majority of people on this planet are stupid for believing in things which we have no evidence of.
Only reason religions still exist… mores is because it has been forced down peoples throats for too many centuries. Crusades are over now, but now parents brainwash their children to believe in supernatural creatures and magic. Children are very easy to corrupt with religion, because their understanding on universe/science is non-existent.
Regardless of everything that happened during the fight, putting someone in a defenseless position and killing them is not okay in my eyes. There was no reason for Jane to die, Kenny thought she killed the baby. You shouldn't murder someone because you thought they killed a baby, and even if someone did do just that, I wouldn't want to murder them. In my opinion Kenny looked positively evil in those seconds when he was on top of Jane. Anyone would to me if they were doing what he was doing. I'm not a Kenny hater, I love Kenny, so leave that shit out of your inevitable retort.
Voluntary manslaughter and killing in self-defense are not the same thing and shouldn't be pieced together like that. Killing in self-defense is considered a "justifiable homicide". It would be "justifiable" if Jane was about to stab him in the eye or something, and he grabbed Clementine's gun and shot her. It was not justifiable, unfortunately, because Jane was already off of him, at which point he stabbed her in the leg, got on top of her, and proceeded to attempt to stab her in the chest. This is not fucking self-defense and I can't believe I just completely restated one of my points from my earlier post.
I would agree that what was happening was voluntary manslaughter, as it transpired in the "heat of the moment", but if this were a criminal case, Kenny would be charged with just that, voluntary manslaughter, not "self-defense".
And in regards to your last comment, I think what Bedlookslikeabed said was ignorant, because I explained in my reply why killing Kenny wasn't murder, which is something he didn't think about.
And at that time Jane was hardly defenseless. Remember when she cut him? Kenny backed up and went outside and Jane followed him with a knife… more in hand, with the clear intention to KILL him, she even states that. If it wasn't for Kenny disarming Jane so greatly, he would've died because she waved her knife obviously wanting to wound Kenny.
It was Jane or Kenny. Jane might've not been a direct threat to Kenny's life during those seconds, but she sure as hell was just moments before.
If we got with intentions behind actions, what he did was voluntary manslaughter against someone who provoked him and created the whole scenario so she could have an excuse to kill him. And that, in my eyes, was self-defense for trying to eliminate a threatening person who was more than willing to end your life seconds before. I mean, if someone tries to cut my stomach, doesn't back up despite having the upper hand, gauges my eye out and on top of that, is respon… [view original content]
You also shove your "scientific evidence" down our throats, you literally quoted things earlier, just like a blindly religious man quoting t… morehe Bible.
You are no better than the people you ridicule.
And once again, proving God to exist or not is not supposed to be your top priority, if you stomp all empathy for others in the race to prove you are right, when you reach the finish line, no one will cheer for you.
Work on yourself and how you talk to people before taking on any bigger topics.
There have been so many gods created over thousands of years... Who are you to say which one is the real one?
I'm clearly not doing that at all. Not sure how you possibly came to that conclusion. I simply believe in a creator.
Complete lack of evidence for gods isnt helping either.
So that means that a creator couldn't possibly exist? What kind of logic is that?
People such as myself see God in other subtle ways. I'm not going to waste my time explaining though, because its all about personnel experience. You have no insight on the matter. You do not have an argument to back the statement that a creator does not exist.
There have been so many gods created over thousands of years... Who are you to say which one is the real one?
Complete lack of evidence for gods isnt helping either.
You say that, but where's your proof that a god doesn't exist? People believed the Earth was flat too, but that was disproved. Knowledge is ever-expanding.
Its impossible to disprove negative, thus the reason burden of proof is on positive claim.
True, but like I said, knowledge is ever-expanding. We don't live in a time where science is unheard of. Because someone was born under the constant influence of religion, doesn't mean they are unable to learn about science. I grew up and am still growing up in a strict Catholic household, go to a Catholic school, attend Mass regularly twice a week and church with my family on Sundays, and study my Bible every night, but I'm not unaware of facts and science, because I don't let myself be brainwashed. Influence isn't written in stone.
If you know scientific answers for how earth was formed and why we exists, why do you need a imaginary friend?
What i find very funny about christianity, is that it specifically treats humans as special beings and our planet unique, while there are 200 billion galaxies and trillions of other planets. We are not special, we have no purpose, we are just a random phenomenon in one of the trillions of planets and christianity treats us as the center of the universe.
stupid for believing in things which we have no evidence of
You say that, but where's your proof that a god doesn't exist? People be… morelieved the Earth was flat too, but that was disproved. Knowledge is ever-expanding.
parents brainwash their children to believe in supernatural creatures and magic
True, but like I said, knowledge is ever-expanding. We don't live in a time where science is unheard of. Because someone was born under the constant influence of religion, doesn't mean they are unable to learn about science. I grew up and am still growing up in a strict Catholic household, go to a Catholic school, attend Mass regularly twice a week and church with my family on Sundays, and study my Bible every night, but I'm not unaware of facts and science, because I don't let myself be brainwashed. Influence isn't written in stone.
Well I believe in god there is many things science has yet to discover doesn't mean they don't exist, lets imagine your right and there was no religion there would be chaos the bible instills love and understanding whatever anyone opinions even if you don't believe in god see through all that to the message and respect it.
This happens everywhere only people who never shut up about religion are atheists just because you feel different doesn't make everyone else wrong or does it give you the right to mock something you don't even care about or take the time to truly understand :P
Well majority of people on this planet are stupid for believing in things which we have no evidence of.
Only reason religions still exist… mores is because it has been forced down peoples throats for too many centuries. Crusades are over now, but now parents brainwash their children to believe in supernatural creatures and magic. Children are very easy to corrupt with religion, because their understanding on universe/science is non-existent.
Why do you want to believe in creator when there are scientific theories explaining this stuff? Do you want to feel special, meaningful and with a purpose?
There have been so many gods created over thousands of years... Who are you to say which one is the real one?
I'm clearly not doing … morethat at all. Not sure how you possibly came to that conclusion. I simply believe in a creator.
Complete lack of evidence for gods isnt helping either.
So that means that a creator couldn't possibly exist? What kind of logic is that?
People such as myself see God in other subtle ways. I'm not going to waste my time explaining though, because its all about personnel experience. You have no insight on the matter. You do not have an argument to back the statement that a creator does not exist.
Try to form proper sentences. It was quite hard to read your message.
God of the gaps huh? That is pretty lame argument.
Every human (healthy in mind) can feel sympathy/empathy towards other humans and even some other animals and thats were we get out moral values from. You could say that you got yours from old dusty book, but i seriously doubt that, because bible is full of crazy, immoral stuff.
Well I believe in god there is many things science has yet to discover doesn't mean they don't exist, lets imagine your right and there was … moreno religion there would be chaos the bible instills love and understanding whatever anyone opinions even if you don't believe in god see through all that to the message and respect it.
This happens everywhere only people who never shut up about religion are atheists just because you feel different doesn't make everyone else wrong or does it give you the right to mock something you don't even care about or take the time to truly understand :P
Well I believe in god there is many things science has yet to discover doesn't mean they don't exist, lets imagine your right and there was … moreno religion there would be chaos the bible instills love and understanding whatever anyone opinions even if you don't believe in god see through all that to the message and respect it.
This happens everywhere only people who never shut up about religion are atheists just because you feel different doesn't make everyone else wrong or does it give you the right to mock something you don't even care about or take the time to truly understand :P
there are scientific theories explaining this stuff?
Do you even realize what a theory is..? Theory =/= fact. There isn't even a logical theory for stating that God does not exist.
Regardless, I would love to see a scientific theory explaining how a creator does not exist.. so I can laugh at how stupidly narrow minded it is. There is literally nothing that disproves the notion that a creator could exist. Just because you say something is so doesn't make it so.
Do you want to feel special, meaningful and with a purpose?
Yes, but that is not the reason why I choose to believe in a creator.
Why do you want to believe in creator when there are scientific theories explaining this stuff? Do you want to feel special, meaningful and with a purpose?
I'm not challenging your opinion I just made my own, I don't want to be rude but I don't care and don't mock my opinion and religions just because you don't believe in them thank you
Try to form proper sentences. It was quite hard to read your message.
God of the gaps huh? That is pretty lame argument.
Every human (… morehealthy in mind) can feel sympathy/empathy towards other humans and even some other animals and thats were we get out moral values from. You could say that you got yours from old dusty book, but i seriously doubt that, because bible is full of crazy, immoral stuff.
If you know scientific answers for how earth was formed and why we exists, why do you need a imaginary friend?
Easy. Because God is my Father. Not because my religion says so, but because I say so. Sure I know theories of how people think the world began, but that's why it's called the Big Bang theory. A theory is not a fact. And there is no definite proof that the Big Bang ever happened, because there are all alternative explanations for all of the cosmological explanations.
Our viewpoints are on opposite sides of the spectrum. For example, I don't believe God is imaginary, but you do. I'm aware of your scientific theories, but that doesn't mean I believe in them. I'm not shoving my beliefs (or lack thereof) down your throat, or anyone's throat for that matter. I'm just explaining how keeping an open mind to the beliefs and viewpoints of others can benefit you as well as everyone else around you in the long run, to prevent misunderstandings and arguments like this in the future. I don't go bashing your beliefs, but you are. You're calling people who believe in God stupid. Am I calling you stupid for believing in a spontaneous phenomenon which created the Earth? No. I'm not.
specifically treats humans as special beings and our planet unique, while there are 200 billion galaxies and trillions of other planets
Exactly, I'm not saying that my religion knows all. No one knows all except for God. That's one of the things that alters people's conceptions about Christianity, or any religion. Man's belief of what God's plans for us are change depending on the facts discovered, but not all the time. Religion can be blind, but that's because MAN is blind. God is not blind.
You say that, but where's your proof that a god doesn't exist? People believed the Earth was flat too, but that was disproved. Knowledge is … moreever-expanding.
Its impossible to disprove negative, thus the reason burden of proof is on positive claim.
True, but like I said, knowledge is ever-expanding. We don't live in a time where science is unheard of. Because someone was born under the constant influence of religion, doesn't mean they are unable to learn about science. I grew up and am still growing up in a strict Catholic household, go to a Catholic school, attend Mass regularly twice a week and church with my family on Sundays, and study my Bible every night, but I'm not unaware of facts and science, because I don't let myself be brainwashed. Influence isn't written in stone.
If you know scientific answers for how earth was formed and why we exists, why do you need a imaginary friend?
What i find very funny about chri… [view original content]
Alrighty, I can't believe it's not murder. Kek. Listen, I'm getting kind of tired from a long day, and, due to already having replied to a comment above yours, am almost fresh out of logic. Almost.
First, that's just the thing, isn't it? By changing your statement from, "You weren't going to let a friend murder a friend by murdering your friend" to, "To stop a friend from murdering a friend you kill a friend", it helps me ease into my point. You didn't murder Kenny, you killed him, and for good reason, to stop him from committing murder. Unjust, unnecessary, murder.
If somebody had shot Clementine, they would not only be committing murder (that word sure is getting brought up a lot, huh?) themselves, but would also be aiding Kenny in murdering Jane. Anyway, if that did happen, yes, someone should shoot that person, or, if possible, stop them some other way, because they would be doing what Clementine was trying to do, prevent murder.
I can't fathom the difficulty in understanding my thinking. Yes, both of these people are my friends and people I mutually care about. But I took what Jane said to heart, "You two've known each other a long time. Sooner or later, you're gonna have to decide how much that's worth." I guess it wasn't worth letting Kenny murder someone for no justifiable reason.
I'm sorry that me calling you're comment ignorant made you upset, but it was ignorant. Though, for what it's worth, I'm happy that you rephrased.
Okay, I'll rephrase. To stop a friend from murdering a friend you kill a friend.
Should somebody have shot Clem to stop her from killing … moreKenny? At the same time, should somebody have shot that other somebody to stop him/her from killing Clem? After all, everybody in these scenarios are protecting someone else.
I find it hard to understand your thinking. This isn't as black and white of a fight as Lee vs the stranger, both of these people are your friends who care about you. Shooting the apparent winner of the deathmatch regardless of whether it's Jane or Kenny is not an understandable thing to do, especially coming from someone who thinks my initial comment is ignorant.
Cool no right answers here everyone's opinion is right in my opinion as long as it doesn't mock the other. But from my perceptive on the issue I really respect that
Cool no right answers here everyone's opinion is right in my opinion as long as it doesn't mock the other. But from my perceptive on the issue I really respect that
☐ Not REKT ☑ REKT ☑ REKTangle ☑ SHREKT ☑ REKT-it Ralph ☑ Total REKTall ☑ The Lord of the REKT ☑ The Usual SusREKTs ☑ North by NorthREKT ☑ REKT to the Future ☑ Once Upon a Time in the REKT ☑ The Good, the Bad, and the REKT ☑ LawREKT of Arabia ☑ Tyrannosaurus REKT ☑ eREKTile dysfunction
If you know scientific answers for how earth was formed and why we exists, why do you need a imaginary friend?
Easy. Because God is … moremy Father. Not because my religion says so, but because I say so. Sure I know theories of how people think the world began, but that's why it's called the Big Bang theory. A theory is not a fact. And there is no definite proof that the Big Bang ever happened, because there are all alternative explanations for all of the cosmological explanations.
Our viewpoints are on opposite sides of the spectrum. For example, I don't believe God is imaginary, but you do. I'm aware of your scientific theories, but that doesn't mean I believe in them. I'm not shoving my beliefs (or lack thereof) down your throat, or anyone's throat for that matter. I'm just explaining how keeping an open mind to the beliefs and viewpoints of others can benefit you as well as everyone else around you in the long run, to prevent misunde… [view original content]
I also chose to kill Kenny, call me "dans la lune" for thinking this but I honestly though Jane lost the baby by accident. So by instinct I chose to save the person I thought was more "innocent", or at least not driven blindly by rage as one of them was going to die, but obviously at the end I was really pissed off by what really happened and chose to go solo with the baby. I really wished in my playthrough Kenny was there to survive, but Telltale did an awesome job making the worst out of situations and forcing you to make a choice you do not want to do.
"Ben caused the death of his family." - Is that a reason to want someone dead so bad?
"That dumb shitbird deserved it", "It's either us or them" - Please. All your posts bring up how humanity should always be the priority (with the baby and Jane's sister), yet now you're saying sometimes you have to be rational? Doesn't that seem a bit hypocritical?
"You can never know the outcome of your choices, you can only believe you made the right call." - This means that the "SHE MANIPOLATED U teh baby was always alive wow such a bitch" argument falls flat immediately, right? Fine by me. Also destroys any argument involving Ben, who never meant to do any harm.
"He helps you if you mention family" - He sure does, but as soon as you refuse to let him murder Larry, he doesn't even try to help you with Danny in the barn. Also, I might be wrong on this one, but if you don't obsessively side with him, he won't help you when you're stuck under the door at the beginning of ep. 3. The examples can go on.
You can't say beating Carver to death wasn't sheer revenge. He shoots both of his legs before that, when he could've just shot him in the head and be done with it.
His state of denial before stopping the train is a clear sign of hyocrisy, He's sure he made the right thing with Larry, but as soon as his kid's clearly not gonna make it, "he's not like the others, he'll be fine".
Generally speaking, I absolutely do not care whether anyone picked Kenny or Jane, just don't be a prick about it with the whole "truth", "bad endings", "wrong choices" and such. Believe it or not, not everything revolves around you and your thought process.
He did that in order to prevent the guy's reanimation, and Larry clearly did die there, you can't just cure a heart attack with no medical e… morequipment, his lips also move since he had begun to reanimate, and not because he wanted to breath or talk or something, since it's impossible to save a guy with a past of heart problems from a (probably not first) heart attack, he needs his pills or a shockwave or whatever the fuck they do.
He saved his son first, and by then he thought Lee took care of it, and to be fair the options they gave you to help Shawn with were dumb (I mean come on, for fuck's sake why not just kill the two damn walkers?!), even though it was a little wrong yeah.
She was dead anyway, yeah it's not right to let her suffer I agree, but it's also necessary for their survival, she's dead either way, it's a common thing in TWD, Lee has very high morals that shouldn't be compared to others since it just isn't fair.
Not entire… [view original content]
If I was in an apocalypse for that long, I wouldn't want to take chances and get my hopes up. Sure, Howes probably isn't safe but you know theres food and baby formula there.
Well we dont get a good look at how secure howe's is, so we can only assume its condition.
But still howe's was a safer bet than venturing to north, looking for place you're not sure exists.
I don't believe him, but that's just me. I'm not being offensive to other religious people, but I need proof before I can believe something so beautiful
Fact and absolute fact are the same thing, the second a fact is changed, it is not a fact, therefore a fact is always absolute.
You don't… more have evidence, but you also don't have a better explanation as to how the world was created in such detail without any planning of a bigger entity.
No matter what you say, you can't disprove God, but you also can't prove he's real.
Dude, you need to calm the hell down and think about what you say before you say it.
This topic has been talked about for... Hell if I know how long. I get you have your opinions and beliefs and everything, but don't go calling people names just because they don't believe in the same thing you do. You know what that makes you look like? It makes you look like a fool. There is something called "respect for others and their opinions", that's what you need right now. And a hell of a lot of it.
Try to form proper sentences. It was quite hard to read your message.
God of the gaps huh? That is pretty lame argument.
Every human (… morehealthy in mind) can feel sympathy/empathy towards other humans and even some other animals and thats were we get out moral values from. You could say that you got yours from old dusty book, but i seriously doubt that, because bible is full of crazy, immoral stuff.
How is a baby gonna freeze to death in a car? It was the safest and warmest place close to her. And the zombies are frozen -_- AJ wasn't gonna get bitten.
You say she did it all for Clem and the baby, but she leaved the baby in a car risking that he be bitten or freeze to death.
What a outstanding leap of logic, I just can't see where the ends meet
Ok, I'm bringing up "irrelevant" topics that you said... I'm saying Clem doesn't have a guardian. Sure "Crazy Kenny" doesn't translate to "Evil Kenny." I get that. It was just when you said Jane killed Clem's guardian was what got my attention. And I don't really want to get into an argument with a Kenny fan that will go on forever
Doesn't matter, she still wanted to kill the man who cared most about her.
As Alan said, you aren't even refuting my point, you're bringing up irrelevant topics to change the subject.
Of course I ´chosen to make the same argument´. It was to see if you actually could replay to my second post, which you didn´t. Twice. You say you were to lazy to replay back, and two days later you repost your entire argument in another tread instead of continuing our argument. How is that not running away?
Do you know how hard it is to reply to multiple people at the same time? Anyway I didn't post my argument here, I just chose to post a list of good things Jane did. I never asked for an argument, but I got one anyway.
I never said that taking care of Clem is selfish, but that only caring about her is selfish. Is not that she only got attached to ´Clem´, but that she couldn´t care if the group died if Clem didn´t care about them.
But she did care and saved the group multiple times, just because she doesn't get saddened over their deaths doesn't mean she doesn't care about them.
You didn´t adrees anything. When I said Jane killing Troy in such a brutal way didn´t make her any better that Kenny, regardlees how of useful it was, you pretended like it wasn´t there. When I said that doing stuff for the group only because of Clem made her selfish, you only repeated that she also cared about the group without giving more reasons that doing it.
I never ignored the fact that Jane killed Troy. You obviously didn't read my other posts, I said I was okay with Kenny killing Carver but it was a selfish act since he did it for himself. Also he wasted the groups precious time that could've been used to escape faster thus preventing Carlos and Nick from getting shot. I never said Kenny is a bad guy for beating on Carvers corpse.
Also how does Jane caring about the group because of Clem selfish? So if I decided to save someones mother but I actually don't care about her doesn't mean I'm selfish.
because she never once thought about the consequences could be for Clementine, because she could have tried to talk about the issue instead of provoking a fight to death and because she never bothered to stop the fight when she already proved that Kenny had a violent reaction.
She's already been talking about the issue for 2 episodes already. After the car argument with Jane and Kenny, Jane had enough of Kenny's bullshit and decided to pull the plan. She knew that Clem would have a better chance of surviving with her and that's why she pulled the plan. Do you honestly think Kenny would've stopped even if she told him that AJ was alive? He said " I'm done talking Clem " and then he tried to kill Jane the moment she accidentally "killed" the baby.
Also, you seem to have forgotten that you accused me of calling you a idiot. When did I call you a idiot?
I'm sorry, I thought you were of those people who insulted me before.
Eren, is 23:06 where I am from and I am going to sleep, so I am going to edit this to replay to your comment tomorrow.
EDIT: All the Pro-… moreKenny fans here keep re-posting the same damn points after I've addressed them, multiple times.
Arguing with you is like arguing with Kenny.
You still don´t see how frustrated you seem?
Of course I ´chosen to make the same argument´. It was to see if you actually could replay to my second post, which you didn´t. Twice. You say you were to lazy to replay back, and two days later you repost your entire argument in another tread instead of continuing our argument. How is that not running away?
I never said that taking care of Clem is selfish, but that only caring about her is selfish. Is not that she only got attached to ´Clem´, but that she couldn´t care if the group died if Clem didn´t care about them.
You didn´t adrees anything. When I said Jane killing Troy in such a brutal way didn´t make… [view original content]
I'm not superior, or 'angry' (More annoyed. shrug)
I called you an asshole when it comes to Jane because when I see you constantly, you go to argue against Jane in the majority of situations I see you in. You didn't even bring up your own points against Kenny and instead told me to go look for one of your threads in.
I didn't call you an asshole personally until you took it out of context and became an asshole to me specifically.
You construe the fact I'm busy doing things sometimes, as a lack of retort. And honestly look at what you post.
Parenthesis around other parts of sentences to give them more context.
Are you fucking kidding me? (He could've taken the spot for himself...)
I knew you'd take it that way. (Gods can't be compared to an actual place you can prove to be true...)
God, you're more ignorant and close minded than I thought. (It's for respect, and you have blindfolds...)
4.(How do you know she didn't have a gun?) Oh wait, you don't.
Oh my god... I'm not reading this, sorry, too long for my tiny dumb brain, you win ok?
sounds like you try too hard to look all fancy
(Kenny betraying Clem and Lee?) What the fuck are you talking about?
I didn't tell you what you feel, I told you what I feel, don't make shit up.
(And a final example, which I found odd, was later on in the thread when you picked on someone for using a certain grammar/way of talking? People talk like they talk, not because they deem themselves superior by using different words than you're normally accustomed to. )
Like myself you can relate in the sense that you can use vulgar language when trying to argue your point. And I am sorry if you were hurt by my bad accusation, to the point you had doubts. You were just unfortunately there when I got mad over how many times I see Jane get called a bitch, worthless, and nothing, when she does have valid points. Telltale didn't create/write Jane as someone who was impossible to relate to, and in the decision between her and Kenny you aren't specifically choosing between Wellington or Howe's at that moment. It might be a thought you hold on repeat playthroughs or if you're critically analyzing it on your first run.
But yeah. I've seen monsters on both sides of this. People telling Jane Supporters to go lick her dead coot, or people telling Kenny Supporters that Kenny would rape and kill Clem. I just took it out on you and I'm sorry for the impact it had/held.
By the way, who are you to tell me what I am? Have you ever even seen me here?
Yeah, I can also say I have a life to attend to, that won'… moret make you sound any superior, it is clearly what you're trying to make yourself look as, but in truth, I see you as some dumb self-rightous shitlord that tried to make me look bad because he just can not accept that what me, Tinni and the others said had clearly topped over what the others said.
I did judge Kenny, I said some things I didn't agree with him on, so shut the fuck up and get outta here if all you do is call people assholes and explain them why you "perceive me as an asshole" in a complicent tone that makes people (or at least me) want to vomit.
"Bleh."
Jane left her sister to die and she might have been able to do something to prevent that.
On the other hand, Jaime wanted to die, Jane was dragging her all around restricting her fate from her, letting her die how she wanted to in the first place is a debatable action. It's bad in terms of giving up on someone you care about, but good for the person who wants to meet their end in a horrid world.
Two things she could have done:
1) She still could have shot her or stabbed her in the head to end the suffering.
Do you really think … morea good, warm person would leave his sister to be eaten, piece by piece? She could've made it quick.
2) Maybe she could... idfk KILL THE DAMN ZOMBIES?!
The comics had proved they are a manageable threat, I believe she, (just like Tyreese did in the comics), a strong woman could have saved her sister from them with her knowledge and skills.
Would you be able to stab the one person you cared about with a knife or shoot her with a gun that easy if you had no other options but to leave her with only a limited amount of time?
You, just like me, do not know how much time she had, it may had been a minute or even more, you know it just as much as I do, and based on … moreher selfish actions and morals of a survivalist, I think what I said is more likely to have happened.
It's not that hard, and even if you're right and everything you said is right, she's still a horrible person and did other horrible things like what most people here discuss.
She isn't selfish, she helped the group escape from Howe's, helped Rebecca and Clementine get out of the Walker horde, helped Luke and ,determinantly, Sarah escape the trailer park, she can determinantly try to save Sarah, she came back the group and saved them from Vitali, she saves Clementine determinantly, she's the one who starts the fire, determinantly, when you meet the family, Jane will let them in if Clementine doesn't choose in time.
I never knew selfish people put others in front of themselves, especially when they don't need to.
Well, even pushing her off that roof and stomping her head in is less painful than getting your flesh torn up as you slowly get eaten to dea… moreth.
she isn't selfish nor cruel to let her sister suffer.
But she is selfish, it fits her personality.
She didn't come back for Kenny, she did for Clem, that's the only person she cared about in her life.
She would leave Clem just like she … moredid to her sister if that situation happens again, what Kenny would never do, he would get eaten trying to save her, he's a selfless guardian, she's a selfish survivor.
He isn't a psychopath, no matter how much you'll say that, what he did is not out of the ordinary, killing someone who has a very ugly past … moreand then tells you she killed "your" baby will make anyone want to kill her, especially after what he's lost.
If Jane is selfless, she wouldn't've left Sarah behind like she did, and there are tons of other examples like how she left her sister.
Comments
I'm with Kenny to the end.
We have no context of Lee's personality days before he killed the senator. I don't see it as an accident, I can only justify it if it was a shock to find them together and even then I don't justify it. We have context of what Kenny's temperment is so he does not get a pass from me. Just like there was a breaking point with Jane does not mean he won't have it with Clem.
God, you're more ignorant and close minded than I thought.
It's for respect, and you have blindfolds, not because you don't believe in God, but because that you won't accept that your opinion isn't the only right answer.
There have been so many gods created over thousands of years... Who are you to say which one is the real one?
Complete lack of evidence for gods isnt helping either.
You say that, but where's your proof that a god doesn't exist? People believed the Earth was flat too, but that was disproved. Knowledge is ever-expanding.
True, but like I said, knowledge is ever-expanding. We don't live in a time where science is unheard of. Because someone was born under the constant influence of religion, doesn't mean they are unable to learn about science. I grew up and am still growing up in a strict Catholic household, go to a Catholic school, attend Mass regularly twice a week and church with my family on Sundays, and study my Bible every night, but I'm not unaware of facts and science, because I don't let myself be brainwashed. Influence isn't written in stone.
You also shove your "scientific evidence" down our throats, you literally quoted things earlier, just like a blindly religious man quoting the Bible.
You are no better than the people you ridicule.
And once again, proving God to exist or not is not supposed to be your top priority, if you stomp all empathy for others in the race to prove you are right, when you reach the finish line, no one will cheer for you.
Work on yourself and how you talk to people before taking on any bigger topics.
Regardless of everything that happened during the fight, putting someone in a defenseless position and killing them is not okay in my eyes. There was no reason for Jane to die, Kenny thought she killed the baby. You shouldn't murder someone because you thought they killed a baby, and even if someone did do just that, I wouldn't want to murder them. In my opinion Kenny looked positively evil in those seconds when he was on top of Jane. Anyone would to me if they were doing what he was doing. I'm not a Kenny hater, I love Kenny, so leave that shit out of your inevitable retort.
Voluntary manslaughter and killing in self-defense are not the same thing and shouldn't be pieced together like that. Killing in self-defense is considered a "justifiable homicide". It would be "justifiable" if Jane was about to stab him in the eye or something, and he grabbed Clementine's gun and shot her. It was not justifiable, unfortunately, because Jane was already off of him, at which point he stabbed her in the leg, got on top of her, and proceeded to attempt to stab her in the chest. This is not fucking self-defense and I can't believe I just completely restated one of my points from my earlier post.
I would agree that what was happening was voluntary manslaughter, as it transpired in the "heat of the moment", but if this were a criminal case, Kenny would be charged with just that, voluntary manslaughter, not "self-defense".
And in regards to your last comment, I think what Bedlookslikeabed said was ignorant, because I explained in my reply why killing Kenny wasn't murder, which is something he didn't think about.
And that is not "selfish"?
this discussion has no end
there is no right or wrong
just decisions and consequences
I'm clearly not doing that at all. Not sure how you possibly came to that conclusion. I simply believe in a creator.
So that means that a creator couldn't possibly exist? What kind of logic is that?
People such as myself see God in other subtle ways. I'm not going to waste my time explaining though, because its all about personnel experience. You have no insight on the matter. You do not have an argument to back the statement that a creator does not exist.
Its impossible to disprove negative, thus the reason burden of proof is on positive claim.
If you know scientific answers for how earth was formed and why we exists, why do you need a imaginary friend?
What i find very funny about christianity, is that it specifically treats humans as special beings and our planet unique, while there are 200 billion galaxies and trillions of other planets. We are not special, we have no purpose, we are just a random phenomenon in one of the trillions of planets and christianity treats us as the center of the universe.
Well I believe in god there is many things science has yet to discover doesn't mean they don't exist, lets imagine your right and there was no religion there would be chaos the bible instills love and understanding whatever anyone opinions even if you don't believe in god see through all that to the message and respect it.
This happens everywhere only people who never shut up about religion are atheists just because you feel different doesn't make everyone else wrong or does it give you the right to mock something you don't even care about or take the time to truly understand :P
Why do you want to believe in creator when there are scientific theories explaining this stuff? Do you want to feel special, meaningful and with a purpose?
Try to form proper sentences. It was quite hard to read your message.
God of the gaps huh? That is pretty lame argument.
Every human (healthy in mind) can feel sympathy/empathy towards other humans and even some other animals and thats were we get out moral values from. You could say that you got yours from old dusty book, but i seriously doubt that, because bible is full of crazy, immoral stuff.
well i don't believe in god ...
but i believe in that for what he stands
for example the love to other people etc.
Do you even realize what a theory is..? Theory =/= fact. There isn't even a logical theory for stating that God does not exist.
Regardless, I would love to see a scientific theory explaining how a creator does not exist.. so I can laugh at how stupidly narrow minded it is. There is literally nothing that disproves the notion that a creator could exist. Just because you say something is so doesn't make it so.
Yes, but that is not the reason why I choose to believe in a creator.
I'm not challenging your opinion I just made my own, I don't want to be rude but I don't care and don't mock my opinion and religions just because you don't believe in them thank you
Easy. Because God is my Father. Not because my religion says so, but because I say so. Sure I know theories of how people think the world began, but that's why it's called the Big Bang theory. A theory is not a fact. And there is no definite proof that the Big Bang ever happened, because there are all alternative explanations for all of the cosmological explanations.
Our viewpoints are on opposite sides of the spectrum. For example, I don't believe God is imaginary, but you do. I'm aware of your scientific theories, but that doesn't mean I believe in them. I'm not shoving my beliefs (or lack thereof) down your throat, or anyone's throat for that matter. I'm just explaining how keeping an open mind to the beliefs and viewpoints of others can benefit you as well as everyone else around you in the long run, to prevent misunderstandings and arguments like this in the future. I don't go bashing your beliefs, but you are. You're calling people who believe in God stupid. Am I calling you stupid for believing in a spontaneous phenomenon which created the Earth? No. I'm not.
Exactly, I'm not saying that my religion knows all. No one knows all except for God. That's one of the things that alters people's conceptions about Christianity, or any religion. Man's belief of what God's plans for us are change depending on the facts discovered, but not all the time. Religion can be blind, but that's because MAN is blind. God is not blind.
Alrighty, I can't believe it's not murder. Kek. Listen, I'm getting kind of tired from a long day, and, due to already having replied to a comment above yours, am almost fresh out of logic. Almost.
First, that's just the thing, isn't it? By changing your statement from, "You weren't going to let a friend murder a friend by murdering your friend" to, "To stop a friend from murdering a friend you kill a friend", it helps me ease into my point. You didn't murder Kenny, you killed him, and for good reason, to stop him from committing murder. Unjust, unnecessary, murder.
If somebody had shot Clementine, they would not only be committing murder (that word sure is getting brought up a lot, huh?) themselves, but would also be aiding Kenny in murdering Jane. Anyway, if that did happen, yes, someone should shoot that person, or, if possible, stop them some other way, because they would be doing what Clementine was trying to do, prevent murder.
I can't fathom the difficulty in understanding my thinking. Yes, both of these people are my friends and people I mutually care about. But I took what Jane said to heart, "You two've known each other a long time. Sooner or later, you're gonna have to decide how much that's worth." I guess it wasn't worth letting Kenny murder someone for no justifiable reason.
I'm sorry that me calling you're comment ignorant made you upset, but it was ignorant. Though, for what it's worth, I'm happy that you rephrased.
Cool no right answers here everyone's opinion is right in my opinion as long as it doesn't mock the other. But from my perceptive on the issue I really respect that
Respect is the most important currency
XD yes Rachelle
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I also chose to kill Kenny, call me "dans la lune" for thinking this but I honestly though Jane lost the baby by accident. So by instinct I chose to save the person I thought was more "innocent", or at least not driven blindly by rage as one of them was going to die, but obviously at the end I was really pissed off by what really happened and chose to go solo with the baby. I really wished in my playthrough Kenny was there to survive, but Telltale did an awesome job making the worst out of situations and forcing you to make a choice you do not want to do.
"Ben caused the death of his family." - Is that a reason to want someone dead so bad?
"That dumb shitbird deserved it", "It's either us or them" - Please. All your posts bring up how humanity should always be the priority (with the baby and Jane's sister), yet now you're saying sometimes you have to be rational? Doesn't that seem a bit hypocritical?
"You can never know the outcome of your choices, you can only believe you made the right call." - This means that the "SHE MANIPOLATED U teh baby was always alive wow such a bitch" argument falls flat immediately, right? Fine by me. Also destroys any argument involving Ben, who never meant to do any harm.
"He helps you if you mention family" - He sure does, but as soon as you refuse to let him murder Larry, he doesn't even try to help you with Danny in the barn. Also, I might be wrong on this one, but if you don't obsessively side with him, he won't help you when you're stuck under the door at the beginning of ep. 3. The examples can go on.
You can't say beating Carver to death wasn't sheer revenge. He shoots both of his legs before that, when he could've just shot him in the head and be done with it.
His state of denial before stopping the train is a clear sign of hyocrisy, He's sure he made the right thing with Larry, but as soon as his kid's clearly not gonna make it, "he's not like the others, he'll be fine".
Generally speaking, I absolutely do not care whether anyone picked Kenny or Jane, just don't be a prick about it with the whole "truth", "bad endings", "wrong choices" and such. Believe it or not, not everything revolves around you and your thought process.
If I was in an apocalypse for that long, I wouldn't want to take chances and get my hopes up. Sure, Howes probably isn't safe but you know theres food and baby formula there.
I don't believe him, but that's just me. I'm not being offensive to other religious people, but I need proof before I can believe something so beautiful
Dude, you need to calm the hell down and think about what you say before you say it.
This topic has been talked about for... Hell if I know how long. I get you have your opinions and beliefs and everything, but don't go calling people names just because they don't believe in the same thing you do. You know what that makes you look like? It makes you look like a fool. There is something called "respect for others and their opinions", that's what you need right now. And a hell of a lot of it.
ok.
I believe Kenny is god.
How is a baby gonna freeze to death in a car? It was the safest and warmest place close to her. And the zombies are frozen -_- AJ wasn't gonna get bitten.
And holy shit did this go far...
Ok, I'm bringing up "irrelevant" topics that you said... I'm saying Clem doesn't have a guardian. Sure "Crazy Kenny" doesn't translate to "Evil Kenny." I get that. It was just when you said Jane killed Clem's guardian was what got my attention. And I don't really want to get into an argument with a Kenny fan that will go on forever
Nope, not at all.
Do you know how hard it is to reply to multiple people at the same time? Anyway I didn't post my argument here, I just chose to post a list of good things Jane did. I never asked for an argument, but I got one anyway.
But she did care and saved the group multiple times, just because she doesn't get saddened over their deaths doesn't mean she doesn't care about them.
I never ignored the fact that Jane killed Troy. You obviously didn't read my other posts, I said I was okay with Kenny killing Carver but it was a selfish act since he did it for himself. Also he wasted the groups precious time that could've been used to escape faster thus preventing Carlos and Nick from getting shot. I never said Kenny is a bad guy for beating on Carvers corpse.
Also how does Jane caring about the group because of Clem selfish? So if I decided to save someones mother but I actually don't care about her doesn't mean I'm selfish.
She's already been talking about the issue for 2 episodes already. After the car argument with Jane and Kenny, Jane had enough of Kenny's bullshit and decided to pull the plan. She knew that Clem would have a better chance of surviving with her and that's why she pulled the plan. Do you honestly think Kenny would've stopped even if she told him that AJ was alive? He said " I'm done talking Clem " and then he tried to kill Jane the moment she accidentally "killed" the baby.
I'm sorry, I thought you were of those people who insulted me before.
I'm not superior, or 'angry' (More annoyed. shrug)
I called you an asshole when it comes to Jane because when I see you constantly, you go to argue against Jane in the majority of situations I see you in. You didn't even bring up your own points against Kenny and instead told me to go look for one of your threads in.
I didn't call you an asshole personally until you took it out of context and became an asshole to me specifically.
You construe the fact I'm busy doing things sometimes, as a lack of retort. And honestly look at what you post.
Parenthesis around other parts of sentences to give them more context.
4.(How do you know she didn't have a gun?) Oh wait, you don't.
(And a final example, which I found odd, was later on in the thread when you picked on someone for using a certain grammar/way of talking? People talk like they talk, not because they deem themselves superior by using different words than you're normally accustomed to. )
Like myself you can relate in the sense that you can use vulgar language when trying to argue your point. And I am sorry if you were hurt by my bad accusation, to the point you had doubts. You were just unfortunately there when I got mad over how many times I see Jane get called a bitch, worthless, and nothing, when she does have valid points. Telltale didn't create/write Jane as someone who was impossible to relate to, and in the decision between her and Kenny you aren't specifically choosing between Wellington or Howe's at that moment. It might be a thought you hold on repeat playthroughs or if you're critically analyzing it on your first run.
But yeah. I've seen monsters on both sides of this. People telling Jane Supporters to go lick her dead coot, or people telling Kenny Supporters that Kenny would rape and kill Clem. I just took it out on you and I'm sorry for the impact it had/held.
Jane leaving Jaime behind is debatable.
Jane left her sister to die and she might have been able to do something to prevent that.
On the other hand, Jaime wanted to die, Jane was dragging her all around restricting her fate from her, letting her die how she wanted to in the first place is a debatable action. It's bad in terms of giving up on someone you care about, but good for the person who wants to meet their end in a horrid world.
If you threw her and you didn't have enough strength to get her to the other roof then you may not get a second chance.
Yes she could've tried to kill the Walkers, unlike:
When the Pharmacy group was being held up, there were only a few Walkers to begin with, but nope.
When the group was big in numbers and they made it to Savannah, but nope.
When Jane, Clementine, Luke and Sarah were at the Trailer Park, but nope.
When, determinantly, Sarah falls off the Observation Deck, but nope.
Would you be able to stab the one person you cared about with a knife or shoot her with a gun that easy if you had no other options but to leave her with only a limited amount of time?
She isn't selfish, she helped the group escape from Howe's, helped Rebecca and Clementine get out of the Walker horde, helped Luke and ,determinantly, Sarah escape the trailer park, she can determinantly try to save Sarah, she came back the group and saved them from Vitali, she saves Clementine determinantly, she's the one who starts the fire, determinantly, when you meet the family, Jane will let them in if Clementine doesn't choose in time.
I never knew selfish people put others in front of themselves, especially when they don't need to.
Woah, Jane cares about Luke too ya know.
Well Kenny does have a pretty violent social behaviour.
The informal meaning of psychopath is an unstable and aggressive person which fits Kenny's character.