Kenny, always showing the up most class when dealing with dangerous situations.
Just like the time he threatened to smack Clementine. What a swell hick.
Well i was pretty sure she didnt kill the baby. Mainly because she didnt show any emotions at all, and she was very shocked after killing a random russian.
Well, maybe you were. I wasn't. Serial killers used to say that only the first kill is hard.
I am not comparing Jane to serial killers, but many of them claimed it's only hard to kill for the first time. That is why she didn't look shocked after supposedly killing the baby.
But, since AJ is alive regardless, your idea seems to be plausible.
Well i was pretty sure she didnt kill the baby. Mainly because she didnt show any emotions at all, and she was very shocked after killing a random russian.
Well she did admit the she has killed before, but that it was the first time she killed someone who didnt wrong her in any way and it felt wrong. Is that something serial killer would say?
This Jane and Kenny debates get pretty extreme, mainly because both characters are from two extreme sides.
Kenny is family man and tries to help (most) people, Jane is lonely wolf, who mainly takes care of herself and is ready to do most logical/rational, yet cruel things to others.
Well, maybe you were. I wasn't. Serial killers used to say that only the first kill is hard.
I am not comparing Jane to serial killers, b… moreut many of them claimed it's only hard to kill for the first time. That is why she didn't look shocked after supposedly killing the baby.
But, since AJ is alive regardless, your idea seems to be plausible.
Clem does not feel empathy or sympathy for Carver but does for Arvo.
It's determinant. It's not mandatory for her to have any sympat… morehy for Arvo, so... For those who didn't show sympathy to him as Clementine, it remains the same. My point may not apply to every situation, but certainly can be applied in some.
Jane specifically states that even she didn't expect him to go as far as to murder her, she stated that she didn't want anyone to die,
Lies.
Kenny: I fucking kill you!
Jane: I knew you would.
he even shoved Clementine over just cause he was angry,
And? Jane does it too.
how is that selfish?
I dunno, maybe because she doesn´t show a care about the baby, doesn´t try to talk it out with Kenny, and doesn´t consider the emotional trauma Clem could have to go through because of her plan?
Jane specifically states that even she didn't expect him to go as far as to murder her, she stated that she didn't want anyone to die, she j… moreust wanted to show Clem how dangerous Kenny can be and how out of control he can be, he even shoved Clementine over just cause he was angry, she wanted Clementine to realize this so that Clem is safe, how is that selfish?
Jane does realize Kenny would do something, as she even says she was showing Clem how far Kenny would go and how horrible he could get. So she had some knowledge that he was going to attack her.
Jane specifically states that even she didn't expect him to go as far as to murder her, she stated that she didn't want anyone to die, she j… moreust wanted to show Clem how dangerous Kenny can be and how out of control he can be, he even shoved Clementine over just cause he was angry, she wanted Clementine to realize this so that Clem is safe, how is that selfish?
Just like the time he threatened to smack Clementine. What a swell hick.
He doesn´t treatened her.
And what you are refiring to only happens if you spit on Lee´s love and sacrifice.
Jane does realize Kenny would do something, as she even says she was showing Clem how far Kenny would go and how horrible he could get. So she had some knowledge that he was going to attack her.
Also a lot of your statements are conflicting...
Jane does realize Kenny would do something, as she even says she was showing Clem how far Kenny would go and how horrible he could get. So she had some knowledge that he was going to attack her.
Also a lot of your statements are conflicting...
If she knew that, she wouldnt have put her knife away. Jane isnt someone who looks for fair fight.
She was looking for a figth, and Kenny was just stading there looking pissed off when she took out the knife, so she sheated the knife to give Kenny a opening.
Well, Clementine witnessed Kenny kill Carver with 16 (or even 17) hits with a crowbar which rendered Carver's face into a bloody pulp. Now, … moreKenny is beating the shit out of Arvo who went after them with his own group, and accused them of stealing, even though (determinant, of course) you didn't steal anything from him (except for Jane, who still takes his gun even then), and Clementine tries to stop him from doing it. In Kenny's eyes, Arvo's a villain, just like Carver. Even though he isn't and Kenny's behaviour is inexcusable in that situation, it is Clem being hypocritical, not just Kenny being psychotic.
Have the idea with the cover technique (which Clem already knew)
Kill a danger to the group (Troy)
Help Clem and Rebecca out of the herd
Show Clem new survival techniques
Save Kenny in 205 (although Clem would have been able to shoot Vitali aswell)
Predicting many would turn on Clem
What Kenny did right:
Mistrust Ben
Mistrust the St John's
Kill Larry (he was doing it not for the fuck of it, but because if Larry had really been dead, noone would have made it out)
Mistrust Lilly afterwards
Mistrust Molly
Mistrust Vernon
Sacrifice himself for Ben/Christa
Mistrust Bonnie (when she was with Carver in 202, and in 205 she showed her true face)
Take a beating for Clementine
Was okay with Clem saying she'd leave him behind at Howe's
Give birth to Rebecca
Shoot Rebecca (determinant)
Mistrust Arvo
Forgive Clementine Sarita's death (it was nothing that had to be done. Be serious. If a 11 year old girl, no matter how much you love her, got your wife/husband killed, noone would just accept that. 'Thanks for getting him/her killed, Clem ^^' - For real? It was a nice gesture of Kenny to forgive Clem, but nothing that obviously had to be done)
Mistrust Jane
Tell Clem it was okay she shot him (determinant)
Tell Clem she is right to leave him (determinant)
Leave Wellington for the good of Clem and AJ (determinant)
I think you like to ignore what Kenny did good. Instead, you only concentrate on the one time where Kenny seriously snapped, and state that his actions always were like this, even though theyobviously weren't.
Maybe. But being at Wellington, after this definition, then is the best solution, because they have enough supplies to just give them out to random strangers and look at that walls.
What Jane did right:
* Have the idea with the cover technique (which Clem already knew)
* Kill a danger to the group (Troy)
* Hel… morep Clem and Rebecca out of the herd
* Show Clem new survival techniques
* Save Kenny in 205 (although Clem would have been able to shoot Vitali aswell)
* Predicting many would turn on Clem
What Kenny did right:
* Mistrust Ben
* Mistrust the St John's
* Kill Larry (he was doing it not for the fuck of it, but because if Larry had really been dead, noone would have made it out)
* Mistrust Lilly afterwards
* Mistrust Molly
* Mistrust Vernon
* Sacrifice himself for Ben/Christa
* Mistrust Bonnie (when she was with Carver in 202, and in 205 she showed her true face)
* Take a beating for Clementine
* Was okay with Clem saying she'd leave him behind at Howe's
* Give birth to Rebecca
* Shoot Rebecca (determinant)
* Mistrust Arvo
* Forgive Clementine Sarita's… [view original content]
Maybe. But being at Wellington, after this definition, then is the best solution, because they have enough supplies to just give them out to random strangers and look at that walls.
I hate people like ISIS, not religious people in general at all.
But my point is that these wouldn't even exist without religion, so I indirectly hate religion. But not the people that keep their beliefs for themselves (I know I kind of didn't too right know but I mean in general)
I liked Jane a lot as a character and I respected how she was willing to bend on her typical instincts when Clementine asked her to. But Jane only ever stuck her neck out for others when Clementine was a factor or specifically asked her to. In the truck with Kenny, she even goes as far as to chastise him by calling him an "Asshole trying to save every dead person", which highlights why one character is selfish and one is selfless. Both work for survival situations depending on if you're alone or with a group, but if you've got two kids in tow, being a selfish person benefits only your own survival.
Jane is selfish, which has been great for her own well-being. Kenny has been far more selfless, though he's still influenced by his own personal believes (so I wouldn't call him 100% selfless), which has been hell on his personal well-being while he tried to protect or make the situation easier on others. But this difference is what makes the ending interesting, because you're kind of deciding which kind of survival outlook Clementine will adopt. You can even go as far as to reject both extremes and have Clem strike out on her own. It's a bit childish to reduce that kind of thought into two characters who are completely opposed in ideals and strategy by claiming that one character being selfish is somehow a result of loud "Kenny fans" rather than the character's actions. Jane's philosophy and selfishness were very deliberate, but like I said, selfish isn't a completely negative thing in an apocalypse.
I dont think anyone ever claim that Jane isnt pretty selfish, but Kenny fans (annoying ones) discredit/ignore all of her selfless acts and thats pretty annoying.
I liked Jane a lot as a character and I respected how she was willing to bend on her typical instincts when Clementine asked her to. But Jan… moree only ever stuck her neck out for others when Clementine was a factor or specifically asked her to. In the truck with Kenny, she even goes as far as to chastise him by calling him an "Asshole trying to save every dead person", which highlights why one character is selfish and one is selfless. Both work for survival situations depending on if you're alone or with a group, but if you've got two kids in tow, being a selfish person benefits only your own survival.
Jane is selfish, which has been great for her own well-being. Kenny has been far more selfless, though he's still influenced by his own personal believes (so I wouldn't call him 100% selfless), which has been hell on his personal well-being while he tried to protect or make the situation easier on others. But this difference is what makes the en… [view original content]
Jane kind of balances herself out; she does some selfless things, but it's more for Clementine's sake. However I think a lot of the strong sentiments of Kenny fans comes from the final section of Episode 5 where she;
-Insults Kenny and says things like he only loves Sarita and the baby because they didn't/were incapable of talking back to him
-Tries to convince Clementine to abandon Kenny in a blizzard over an argument (most Kenny fans probably chose the option where you tell her to stop upsetting him, to which she'll bitterly respond that Clementine is just like him.)
-Putting AJ in danger to goad Kenny into a fight, making it clear that it was a fight to the death
This doesn't null her better deeds early on, but in the final act it does a lot to sour a player's picture of her. I blame it more on Telltale rushing to bring the Kenny-Jane conflict to a head, so Jane felt a bit out of character. But I think her entire plan was the ultimate selfish, self-serving act. She's acting for what she thinks is best for Clementine, the keyword being, "she thinks". I feel that the decision that makes the most sense from a purely narrative point is Clementine shooting Kenny, and then abandoning Jane. But that's just my opinion. I mean, I wouldn't stay with Jane if she forced me to shoot someone over a completely fabricated conflict.
I dont think anyone ever claim that Jane isnt pretty selfish, but Kenny fans (annoying ones) discredit/ignore all of her selfless acts and thats pretty annoying.
To be honest, Kenny started the whole insulting by called Jane "nothing". Jane usually keeps emotions to herself, but when someone insults her deeply, she gets pretty defensive. (seen before with Rebecca)
On her own, Jane is very rational/logical/objective, but seeing Clem as her new little sister makes her act irrationally.
Jane kind of balances herself out; she does some selfless things, but it's more for Clementine's sake. However I think a lot of the strong s… moreentiments of Kenny fans comes from the final section of Episode 5 where she;
-Insults Kenny and says things like he only loves Sarita and the baby because they didn't/were incapable of talking back to him
-Tries to convince Clementine to abandon Kenny in a blizzard over an argument (most Kenny fans probably chose the option where you tell her to stop upsetting him, to which she'll bitterly respond that Clementine is just like him.)
-Putting AJ in danger to goad Kenny into a fight, making it clear that it was a fight to the death
This doesn't null her better deeds early on, but in the final act it does a lot to sour a player's picture of her. I blame it more on Telltale rushing to bring the Kenny-Jane conflict to a head, so Jane felt a bit out of character. But I think her entire plan was the ultim… [view original content]
Jane kind of balances herself out; she does some selfless things, but it's more for Clementine's sake. However I think a lot of the strong s… moreentiments of Kenny fans comes from the final section of Episode 5 where she;
-Insults Kenny and says things like he only loves Sarita and the baby because they didn't/were incapable of talking back to him
-Tries to convince Clementine to abandon Kenny in a blizzard over an argument (most Kenny fans probably chose the option where you tell her to stop upsetting him, to which she'll bitterly respond that Clementine is just like him.)
-Putting AJ in danger to goad Kenny into a fight, making it clear that it was a fight to the death
This doesn't null her better deeds early on, but in the final act it does a lot to sour a player's picture of her. I blame it more on Telltale rushing to bring the Kenny-Jane conflict to a head, so Jane felt a bit out of character. But I think her entire plan was the ultim… [view original content]
I think of it as people's view points of the world. Some people will like and agree with nearly every course of action that Kenny does, some will be a bit hesitant and sometimes disagree with him but will still like him, others will disagree with him and hate him. I have an odd viewpoint where I like characters who aren't prepared to handle the world but still try to the best of their abilities. Which is why my three favorite characters are Ben, Nick and Arvo, respectively, and I'm OK with people disagreeing with my views, because they have their own ideas on how they view the world.
Comments
You missed my sarcasm up there. Jane hat nothing to do with Luke's drowning but everything with Clem's saving.
He doesn´t treatened her.
And what you are refiring to only happens if you spit on Lee´s love and sacrifice.
Nope.
Kenny
Of course it was. According to Jane fans, it couldn't have been anything else.
Well i was pretty sure she didnt kill the baby. Mainly because she didnt show any emotions at all, and she was very shocked after killing a random russian.
Well, maybe you were. I wasn't. Serial killers used to say that only the first kill is hard.
I am not comparing Jane to serial killers, but many of them claimed it's only hard to kill for the first time. That is why she didn't look shocked after supposedly killing the baby.
But, since AJ is alive regardless, your idea seems to be plausible.
Well she did admit the she has killed before, but that it was the first time she killed someone who didnt wrong her in any way and it felt wrong. Is that something serial killer would say?
This Jane and Kenny debates get pretty extreme, mainly because both characters are from two extreme sides.
Kenny is family man and tries to help (most) people, Jane is lonely wolf, who mainly takes care of herself and is ready to do most logical/rational, yet cruel things to others.
My Clem didn't show any sympathy at all for Arvo, she'd kill him given the chance.
Lies.
Kenny: I fucking kill you!
Jane: I knew you would.
And? Jane does it too.
I dunno, maybe because she doesn´t show a care about the baby, doesn´t try to talk it out with Kenny, and doesn´t consider the emotional trauma Clem could have to go through because of her plan?
Just a thought.
Jane does realize Kenny would do something, as she even says she was showing Clem how far Kenny would go and how horrible he could get. So she had some knowledge that he was going to attack her.
Also a lot of your statements are conflicting...
He said he ought to slap you, and if you spit on Lee's name I come and slap you myself
If she knew that, she wouldnt have put her knife away. Jane isnt someone who looks for fair fight.
Is not just something, is kill her.
Kenny: I fucking kill you!
Jane: I knew you would.
Where?
She was looking for a figth, and Kenny was just stading there looking pissed off when she took out the knife, so she sheated the knife to give Kenny a opening.
Also:
Kenny: I fucking kill you!
Jane: I knew you would.
clem did/didn't witness kenny killing carver....anyway..carver loved it.
Yes.
People who shot Kenny: 70%
People who left Jane afterwards: 50%
Being alone is the worst choice i think. Baby has no food and what does 11 years old girl know about taking care of a baby anyway...
What Jane did right:
Have the idea with the cover technique (which Clem already knew)
Kill a danger to the group (Troy)
Help Clem and Rebecca out of the herd
Show Clem new survival techniques
Save Kenny in 205 (although Clem would have been able to shoot Vitali aswell)
Predicting many would turn on Clem
What Kenny did right:
Mistrust Ben
Mistrust the St John's
Kill Larry (he was doing it not for the fuck of it, but because if Larry had really been dead, noone would have made it out)
Mistrust Lilly afterwards
Mistrust Molly
Mistrust Vernon
Sacrifice himself for Ben/Christa
Mistrust Bonnie (when she was with Carver in 202, and in 205 she showed her true face)
Take a beating for Clementine
Was okay with Clem saying she'd leave him behind at Howe's
Give birth to Rebecca
Shoot Rebecca (determinant)
Mistrust Arvo
Forgive Clementine Sarita's death (it was nothing that had to be done. Be serious. If a 11 year old girl, no matter how much you love her, got your wife/husband killed, noone would just accept that. 'Thanks for getting him/her killed, Clem ^^' - For real? It was a nice gesture of Kenny to forgive Clem, but nothing that obviously had to be done)
Mistrust Jane
Tell Clem it was okay she shot him (determinant)
Tell Clem she is right to leave him (determinant)
Leave Wellington for the good of Clem and AJ (determinant)
I think you like to ignore what Kenny did good. Instead, you only concentrate on the one time where Kenny seriously snapped, and state that his actions always were like this, even though theyobviously weren't.
I'm curious. What, for example?
Because religion was here 2000 years earlier :P
(And yes, I'm being sarcastic)
Maybe. But being at Wellington, after this definition, then is the best solution, because they have enough supplies to just give them out to random strangers and look at that walls.
ISIS and Al-Qaida are examples for what religion is able to breed.
Mistrust Molly? What?
I think these are the best decisions
Well, Molly left them when they needed her, whereas Jane at least came back (even though it lead to more evil)
this aint a place to discuss how much you hate religion...
They didnt need Molly? And the boat didnt have room for all of them (if Kenny didnt get Lee to murder Ben).
Even if you take this point out of consideration, the good things Kenny did still outweigh the good things Jane did.
I don't.
I hate people like ISIS, not religious people in general at all.
But my point is that these wouldn't even exist without religion, so I indirectly hate religion. But not the people that keep their beliefs for themselves (I know I kind of didn't too right know but I mean in general)
I liked Jane a lot as a character and I respected how she was willing to bend on her typical instincts when Clementine asked her to. But Jane only ever stuck her neck out for others when Clementine was a factor or specifically asked her to. In the truck with Kenny, she even goes as far as to chastise him by calling him an "Asshole trying to save every dead person", which highlights why one character is selfish and one is selfless. Both work for survival situations depending on if you're alone or with a group, but if you've got two kids in tow, being a selfish person benefits only your own survival.
Jane is selfish, which has been great for her own well-being. Kenny has been far more selfless, though he's still influenced by his own personal believes (so I wouldn't call him 100% selfless), which has been hell on his personal well-being while he tried to protect or make the situation easier on others. But this difference is what makes the ending interesting, because you're kind of deciding which kind of survival outlook Clementine will adopt. You can even go as far as to reject both extremes and have Clem strike out on her own. It's a bit childish to reduce that kind of thought into two characters who are completely opposed in ideals and strategy by claiming that one character being selfish is somehow a result of loud "Kenny fans" rather than the character's actions. Jane's philosophy and selfishness were very deliberate, but like I said, selfish isn't a completely negative thing in an apocalypse.
Kenny has been on 2 seasons and on screen pretty much all the time, Jane was with us last 2½ episodes of second season.
Compare good things Kenny and Jane did on season 2...
I dont think anyone ever claim that Jane isnt pretty selfish, but Kenny fans (annoying ones) discredit/ignore all of her selfless acts and thats pretty annoying.
Jane kind of balances herself out; she does some selfless things, but it's more for Clementine's sake. However I think a lot of the strong sentiments of Kenny fans comes from the final section of Episode 5 where she;
-Insults Kenny and says things like he only loves Sarita and the baby because they didn't/were incapable of talking back to him
-Tries to convince Clementine to abandon Kenny in a blizzard over an argument (most Kenny fans probably chose the option where you tell her to stop upsetting him, to which she'll bitterly respond that Clementine is just like him.)
-Putting AJ in danger to goad Kenny into a fight, making it clear that it was a fight to the death
This doesn't null her better deeds early on, but in the final act it does a lot to sour a player's picture of her. I blame it more on Telltale rushing to bring the Kenny-Jane conflict to a head, so Jane felt a bit out of character. But I think her entire plan was the ultimate selfish, self-serving act. She's acting for what she thinks is best for Clementine, the keyword being, "she thinks". I feel that the decision that makes the most sense from a purely narrative point is Clementine shooting Kenny, and then abandoning Jane. But that's just my opinion. I mean, I wouldn't stay with Jane if she forced me to shoot someone over a completely fabricated conflict.
To be honest, Kenny started the whole insulting by called Jane "nothing". Jane usually keeps emotions to herself, but when someone insults her deeply, she gets pretty defensive. (seen before with Rebecca)
On her own, Jane is very rational/logical/objective, but seeing Clem as her new little sister makes her act irrationally.
I still think Jane is the lesser evil of those two.
I think of it as people's view points of the world. Some people will like and agree with nearly every course of action that Kenny does, some will be a bit hesitant and sometimes disagree with him but will still like him, others will disagree with him and hate him. I have an odd viewpoint where I like characters who aren't prepared to handle the world but still try to the best of their abilities. Which is why my three favorite characters are Ben, Nick and Arvo, respectively, and I'm OK with people disagreeing with my views, because they have their own ideas on how they view the world.