Why would they change the playable character?
Not trying to start a flame war but i see all these people talking about the main character changing in season 3 but i am wondering why that would make any sense at all with the games current direction. Telltale have stated a number of times that the walking dead is the story of clementine, and im sure the only reason our PC changed in season 2 is because of lee dying in the end of season 1. Not only does clem survive season 2, but every ending you can wind up with leaves things pretty open ended without any real closure to her story.
I have read people claiming that it would be due to the difficulty of writing the next season from clem's perspective after having 5 different endings to choose from in season 2, but honestly having replayed seasons 1 and 2 multiple times i have noticed that the way telltale likes to deal with determinant characters and alternative choices is to just change a few scenes around and then have us ultimately end up in the same place. How would season 3 be any different? All they would have to do is have the intro scene for s3e1 be determinant on your s2e5 ending, then do a time lapse or write in a way for all endings to end up in the same spot and voila.
I can see how it would be unrealistic to think they would make 5 different games based on your ending as that would be a coding nightmare and season 3 would take many more years to be released, but honestly i believe it would be even more unrealistic for them to build up clem as a character for two seasons, stick her with a baby at the end of s2, and then just turn the rest loose on our imagination leaving all of our choices to only be brought back up as scene(s) in conversation with an NPC clementine. I also would not be too upset if they just did the telltale thing that they do and have all the endings lead clem to the same place for the main story arc of season 3.
I have also read people saying that if telltale just did what they normally do and have us end up at the same place regardless of season 2's ending it would cheapen our choice of endings in season 2. I do not agree with this honestly because as long as they do a good job in the intro scene explaining how she goes from where she ended up in s2 to where she ends up in s3 i feel like that is all that matters. As stated above i do not expect them to make 5 different games just to make my choice in s2 feel more meaningful.
Not trying to say people that think she wont be the PC are wrong, as it could really go either direction and is way too early to tell anything, I just dont feel like it would make sense to me personally.
Comments
Yeah, I don't think this is going to stop being Clementine's story and her returning as the protagonist is the most likely scenario. But there are ways to continue making this game Clementine without making her the playable character [cough]Christa[cough].
I think people just have a problem with the way Clem's role as the protagonist has been implemented in Season 2. I get that they wanted to show that she is growing into a strong, capable survivor, but it feels bit weird to constantly portray her as the most dependable (and depended upon) member of the group. Having adult characters constantly turn to her to resolve their problems just ends up making them look incompetent and foolish.
The thing to do, though, is to try and find other ways of address this problem in Season 3 aside from just dropping Clem as the playable character. Making her a couple years older would help. They could also have her be more autonomous in deciding to do things (instead of Bonnie asking her to talk to Kenny or crawl through the ticket booth, she could just immediately try to do it herself without checking in witht eh adults). They could introduce another child character who could tell her to do these things in place of the adults, which would feel more natural. There's no real need to drop Clem as the PC just yet.
It'd be interesting if Gill, the black boy seen in the Howe's ending, isn't a determinant character but a companion of Clementine's. It'd be interesting to see her interact with a boy her age.
And Christa would also be an interesting protagonist if she were to reunite with the Clementine molded by the player's decisions in Season 2.
I hope Clementine will remain as the protagonist in Season 3. But the way the S2 ended, it made me feel like they decided to end Clem's story. Because of this:
I can kind of see where people are coming from with that but at the same time it is the zombie Apocalypse and in that setting everyone in a group needs to rely on each other regardless of age so it never really bothered me much to see everyone rely on Clem, in fact for me it helped to show how strong she is becoming as a person and as a survivor. I just feel like I wouldn't have anywhere near the same emotional connection with a new PC as I would with clem
But it would be as simple as making 1 game with 5 different intro scenes that all land us in the same main plot
Why would you change the protagonist? That is so confusing. You start with Clem we are going to end with clem. If you are going to change the protagonist change the game's name...
They are probably going to make all 5 endings lead to similar intros or something... You guys sure are looking for things to make certain she isn't going to be playable...
Could not agree more with your statements. Let us play as Clem until her story reaches an end in the only way it can in the walking dead universe. Nice name BTW
thanks
Clem as protagonist in Season 3.
Because they don't have the freedom to do a timeskip where Clementine taking care of AJ wouldn't be a huge responsibility and a drain on actual freedom in gameplay. Also because I'd hate to see all five endings of Season 2 somehow converge on the same point, rendering one of the few choices that actually mattered to be rendered meaningless. What reason is there to actually play as Clementine other than fan sentiment? I want a new protagonist with new values, a new voice and a new setting. I don't want to be hindered from the start with, "think of the baby!" Have you ever dealt with a 2-3 year old boy? Zombie apocalypse or no, they're almost impossible to keep out of trouble. AJ is one of the big factors of why Clementine would be a terrible choice as a protagonist. Not everyone actually cared about AJ, and not everyone would want a game that revolved around protecting something utterly incapable of fending for itself. Beginning a game with pre-conceived commitments and relationships puts a heavy burden on the player and detracts from roleplaying freedom; it's why they ditched the concept of S1's PC being Clementine's older brother.
Don't canonize or render an ending to Season 2 meaningless. Give me a fresh protagonist with fresh companions.
This wouldn't make sense. Starting out with a new story under the same name of the walking dead? lolno.
Yeah the forced attachment to Kenny in season 2 really bothered me, and it wouldn't be too hard to have a new protagonist with Clem as a deutoragonist. They could also just make reference to Clem and the previous stories with cameos and things, it wouldn't be the end of the world if Clem isn't the main focus, there are more stories out there than hers. Though I wouldn't mind continuing as Clem.
What this guy is saying is that "Start fresh or no buy"
I can see your point but at the same time I don't agree that we would not still be able to roleplay with Clem as the PC just because of aj. In fact weather or not to abandon the baby could wind up being a major decision in s3. I can understand wanting something fresh as you say and starting from a new perspective but I also agree with longlivelee in that if they were going to go in a completely different direction like that it should be its own iteration instead of s3 of what has already been established.
I loled
They could start fresh and just have references to season 1 and 2. But he didn't specifically state that it would be a no buy if they didn't start over, so I can't assume that.
Must have skipped over that sentence twice.
No, he said that in the other thread... which was like 5 minutes ago...
Ok good, I thought I was losing my eyesight at a young age.
The Walking Dead game itself was a "new story" under the same name. Nothing in the title says that it's Lee or Clementine's story; the narrative is very much about people coping with a horrifying situation and the ways it alters the human psyche.
From a narrative point, if Clementine was again made the protagonist, we'd still be playing the same game and seeing the same responses. Arvo was probably about 17-18, as was Ben, but they were still considered children; Clementine is 11. Kirkman wouldn't allow a timeskip of 5 or more years, not when the comics are just barely exploring that kind of debelopment. Lee and Clementine offered completely different views of the new world, and I want to see that tradition continue.
Ok I get that, but it shouldn't be under the same name.
Creating new stories under the same titles is what a lot of series do all the time, whether in movies, books, or video games. I want Clementine to continue being the main playable protagonist as much as the next person, but changing the main character to someone completely different and in their own little group in the Walking Dead wouldn't be the first time a game has changed character perspectives that drastically.
Changing the ENTIRE storyline? They must be similar in some way which could include a character from the previous season. What games have done this?
its from a different thread and completely out of context. Including the first sentence is also nonsensical because it has nothing to do with the second. Using it to somehow disprove my arguments on why Clementine WOULDN'T work is also pretty shitty.
I said I'd like a new protagonist. I said I'd ditch TWD if the production quality (your choices meaning little, almost no gameplay or puzzles and extremely short episodes) that we saw in Season 2 continued. He's just using ad hominem while completely misunderstanding an argument.
Never said this was against your argument. I was answering a question.
No, but you tried to diminish my point/answer on my behalf using an out of context sentence from a much larger response that you didn't understand in the first place. Seriously, I didn't say, "Give me a new protagonist or I ditch TWD." I was complaining about Season 2 and how on a whole it was far more rushed with less dependency or consideration for the player than Season 1.
Edit: Also, whether or not I would stop playing TWD if they didn't have a new protagonist is completely irrelevant to the conversation here. The question was, "WHY would they choose a new protagonist?" and I answered with reasons that I believed would effect that decision, rather than just answering, "Well, because I want them to." It really comes off as being brought up solely to diminish another person's reputation. Dojo gave his own imput on the question and my own argument, and your response was completely unrelated to the discussion;
"What this guy is saying is that "Start fresh or no buy""
If you're going to do that petty, irrelevant shit you may as well stand behind it.
Yeah. Some games have changed entire story lines:
and these are just a few games I can think of at the top of my head. But there are many more.
I don't want to sound pessimistic, but different endings might make it hard to tie into a similar introduction and even if they do that, then wouldn't that make our choice irrevelant? I mean I don't know, it might work, perhaps with a little fast forward like they did at the begining of S2. I just got that impression at the end, that they made a "The End" scene. Sort of.
yeah, the reason clementine wasn't an annoying child character in season one was that for her age she was quite competent and smart, but a baby would just be urgh!! so annoying, i wouldn't mind protecting a parent and their baby, because they are handling the baby, but being the guardian of a helpless baby would be irritating.
also i think rendering 5 different ending meaningless in either a DLC (which everybody won't buy), in one episode, or off camera would just be a cheap cop out.
also without the possibility of a big time skip it means clementine will still be a child, and that has already got old, not only did the writers have to create contrived reasons why a child would have any input, they ignored it a lot of the time, making the story unbelievable and implausible most of the time.
i think it would be best to just go back to one of the reasons season one was so good, and that is have an original new story set in the walking dead universe.
Thanks for the insights everyone. Seeing these justifications helps me to to understand why a fresh start may be coming. While I hope personally that we get to keep Clem as the PC, if we do not I can now understand why such a thing would be necessary. We will just have to see how things go
But look at this fanbase, whom wouldn't purchase a DLC, 3.99 ish or so? Most of us ask Telltale for more. I can't imagine a fan skipping DLC on purpose
i bought 400 days, even though i don't usually buy DLC, but i know not everybody (even people who come here to the forums) bought the 400 days DLC, even people who bought season 1 and 2.
it's probably the reason the 400 dyas characters were so underused in season two
Yeah, but I'd say most hardcore fans would. TWDG is listed as DLC itself after Ep1, and it isn't like TWDG milks our money with hordes of maps or skins etc. One extra ep for 3.99 or so wouldn't be too much imo, so long as it's more bang for the buck than 400 Days. I like 400 Days but really I'd prefer an hour long DLC ep as Clem or another character
you don't need to convince me that it is worth it, but i just know that not everybody would buy DLC even if they play the seasons.
so if they do make a DLC for season 2 it will probably have to be something not so crucial to the main story like 400 days.
really if something is crucial to the story is should be in the game as part of the season pass, but if it is an addon or extra content like 400 days it's fair enough being DLC
It wouldnt be that hard. For instance, Wellington/Howes gets attacked by bandits and you escape with AJ. Jane either dies or you get separated when she stops to lead the bandits away. You (and Kenny if you went with him) get attacked by walkers and you escape with AJ. Kenny either dies or you get separated when he stops to lead the walkers away. In all instances you wander around for X amount of days before stumbling upon an old power-plant. The story progresses normally from there with a few different dialog options depending on your S2 end choice.
I know it would feel a bit like our choices are irrelevant, but its a game and I understand their limitations. And if it means we get Clem back I'll take it.
Because They are Simply TellTale
The basis of what people think is some kind of necessary timeskip. And we can't have a big one.
They changed protagonists with Lee to Clem though...